We were wrong, all cultures are not equal

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:55 am

First topic message reminder :

For years, we all turned a blind eye to the segregation of Muslim pupils. Now it is time to stand up to propagators of barbarism and ignorance.

If I have learnt one thing working with children as a teacher, a volunteer and, more recently, a parent, it’s that what children want above all else is to fit in... Integrating children into a new society, then, should not present too much of a problem... common interests for youngsters are not hard to find. So how have we ended up with a situation where so many Muslims are adrift from the mainstream? Why this scandal in Birmingham where five overwhelmingly Muslim schools, some until recently judged to be outstanding, are to be put into special measures because they have sought to inculcate ideas that are repellent to this country?

Let me quote Myriam Francois-Cerrah, a writer and Muslim convert, who told Channel 4 News on Tuesday that she rejected calls by the Prime Minister and Michael Gove, the Education Secretary, for schools to promote British values. “In many ways, the problem is creating a hierarchy of cultures when you say you need to promote British values,” she objected. “What does that say to children in a classroom whose heritage harks from outside the British Isles? It says this country has superior moral values and you are coming from some backward culture whose values you … must not consider equal to our own.” Funnily enough, that’s exactly what we are saying, Myriam. Spot on! A Muslim girl who winds up in Bolton or Luton should thank her lucky stars she doesn’t live in Sudan – or Pakistan, where, only last month, a woman was stoned to death by her family for the crime of marrying a man of whom they disapproved. Are British values superior to Mr Parveen’s? I do hope so...

Unfortunately, the great lie underpinning the creed of multiculturalism, as spouted by Francois‑Cerrah and her ilk, is that all cultures are “equally valid”. Well, patently, they’re not. The reason irate Pakistani patriarchs are not chucking bricks at their errant daughters in the Birmingham Bull Ring is because Britain has a basically uncorrupt police force, a robust judiciary and an enlightened, hard-won system of liberal values that regards women and girls as equals, not third-class citizens...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10892606/Trojan-Horse-debate-We-were-wrong-all-cultures-are-not-equal.html

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:44 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Didge wrote:This was posted the other day and shows how we can at least laugh at the stupidity of some people like the one who wrote this article:

But what exactly are "British values", you ask?

Luckily, Twitter is here to help out the education secretary:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/10/michael-gove-twitter-troj_n_5477567.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Flippin Americans eh?

Oh, and on the second one - it's very, very clear that the first and last letters of the word aslan have been changed - they are a different size to the others.

Gave me a laugh though.

didge ...the master......... Goebbels of the progressive camp.....sleight of hand and lefty propaganda expert....

by Ben Reilly Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:46 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Why do you say vast majority?

What makes you come up with these terms?

Common sense. Let's say a Sudanese man kills another with a machete in the streets of London, and let's say London has a Sudanese immigrant population of 10,000.

So there were 9,998 Sudanese people in London *not* taking part in a machete murder in the street when the murder was committed.

So why exactly are you after gun controls in America, when in 2012 there were "only" 9,100 gun homicides with a population of approximately 320,000,000?

Because we should always be working to reduce violence and murders, of course.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:49 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:I've seen many many Africans come to "safe" England - what do they do - slaughter each other with machetes in the streets!

Come on, BA -- you know that the vast majority of them don't "slaughter each other with machetes in the streets."
Today's headlines:

'They lined the streets with the decapitated heads of police and soldiers': Iraqi refugee reveals the horrors of the jihadi takeover as Baghdad vows to fight back

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2655977/ISIS-militants-march-Baghdad-trademark-bullet-head-gets-way-control-north.html#ixzz34RpnPwLx

Can you see English soldiers doing this in this day and age? How can you say in all seriousness that our two cultures are morally equal?

How many times do I have to say, you can't judge everyday life by headlines?

What were they doing in Indonesia today?

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:49 pm

Fact remains, most people from other countries, their culture should not be blowed to flourish here because it is third world and barbaric in comparison to ours.
But for too long the lefties Have been encouraging them to celebrate their culture and it has been growing here and A clear step backwards and incompatible with our ways and civilised country.
There should be only one culture here and That is British culture.
If someone from a shit hold wants to live that way then they can stay where they are.

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:50 pm

victorisnotamused wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Flippin Americans eh?

Oh, and on the second one - it's very, very clear that the first and last letters of the word aslan have been changed - they are a different size to the others.

Gave me a laugh though.

didge ...the master......... Goebbels of the progressive camp.....sleight of hand and lefty propaganda expert....

It would help if you knew left from right, but hey this was from a news article, so never mind and I am not the national socialist remember, Goebbels would be in your camp not mine, he used the same fear arguments you use, just is not the Jews anymore, but same old fear and xenophobia

by Ben Reilly Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Fact remains, most people from other countries, their culture should not be blowed to flourish here because it is third world and barbaric in comparison to ours.
But for too long the lefties Have been encouraging them to celebrate their culture and it has been growing here and A clear step backwards and incompatible with our ways and civilised country.
There should be only one culture here and That is British culture.
If someone from a shit hold wants to live that way then they can stay where they are.

What was the culture in Britain in 1700? Has it not changed? Culture always changes, you can't freeze it at one place in time.

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:53 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Fact remains, most people from other countries, their culture should not be blowed to flourish here because it is third world and barbaric in comparison to ours.
But for too long the lefties Have been encouraging them to celebrate their culture and it has been growing here and A clear step backwards and incompatible with our ways and civilised country.
There should be only one culture here and That is British culture.
If someone from a shit hold wants to live that way then they can stay where they are.

What was the culture in Britain in 1700? Has it not changed? Culture always changes, you can't freeze it at one place in time.

Back then it was Christian endorsed Slavery in 1700, hanging children for petty theft and the nation was constantly pissed on gin!

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:06 pm

Our culture is advanced and civilised.

A lot of others simply aren't.

We can have multi racial or multi ethnic, but there should be only one culture here and That is British.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Our culture is advanced and civilised.

A lot of others simply aren't.

We can have multi racial or multi ethnic, but there should be only one culture here and That is British.

Here you go with your religious chanting again ... Laughing

by Lone Wolf Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:25 pm

I have yet to see any evidence of Tommy Monk being an "advanced and civilised" entity...

Quite the opposite, if the truth be known..

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:33 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Our culture is advanced and civilised.

A lot of others simply aren't.

We can have multi racial or multi ethnic, but there should be only one culture here and That is British.

That sounds very ..Beanz meanz Heinz Tommy!!

You see though...even the name Heinz is not British!!! Laughing

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:36 pm

Piss off fleakeeper.
You rarely contribute anything other than insults, but never dare to actually debate the points you are so sure of.....

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:37 pm

Didge wrote:
smelly_bandit wrote:When was the last time a Christian was killed for leaving Christianity??
Irrelevant, as stated, where religious elites ruled, is where such things happen, in the west religious elites do not rule anymore, when it did, it happened often

The last time a Muslim was killed was probably 5 minutes ago

When was the last time a child was killed for being disobedient to their parents??
Plenty of times, do you ever read the news how parents abuse their children.

Probably 5 minutes ago in a Muslim country , shot it happens so regularly they even have a name for it - honour killing
Honour killing is not islamic again, so we know Christians have honour killings so by your logic Christianity endorses honour killings

When was the last time an adulterer was sentenced to death??
When religious elites ruled as stated

Probably about 5 minutes ago in some Muslim country

When was the last time any of these where enforced by western courts??

Go ahead didge you love evidence so much as you keep whining about on the Trojan horse threads, so where is the evidence that any of the above is happening in western countries

yeah it was easy again, as explained where religious elites rule, this events happen, and this is proven throughout history, so explain to me why it did happen in the west when religious and political elites ruled and how it stopped after they did not rule? Explain how people who are Christian today an as seen a
advocate for biblical law, but because religious and political elites do not rule, they want it, hence why your argument has no logic, you ignore that it has happened or that it could happen again.
Have done this some many times with you that you always never have an answer.
So why for centuries in the west were people killed for this? Is it because people stopped the religious elites rulling and controlling

Take your time

Have to go, but cannot wait until I see your feeble attempt to answer that

So your argument is based on a time long past and no the present at all

Of course not, if you focused in the present you would be confronted with all the above and worse from Muslims

Yep much easier for you to pretend the past is more important than the present

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:38 pm

JD, pathetic straw man.....
Where have I said anything about baked beans you clown?

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:42 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Fact remains, most people from other countries, their culture should not be blowed to flourish here because it is third world and barbaric in comparison to ours.
But for too long the lefties Have been encouraging them to celebrate their culture and it has been growing here and A clear step backwards and incompatible with our ways and civilised country.
There should be only one culture here and That is British culture.
If someone from a shit hold wants to live that way then they can stay where they are.

What was the culture in Britain in 1700? Has it not changed? Culture always changes, you can't freeze it at one place in time.

Yes you can

Muslims remain stuck in the 7th century

There is not a single thing that has changed in Islamic culture over the last 1400 years, they still stone people for adultery, they still hate Jews, they still kill rape and murder for Allah

The only thing that has changed is technology and none of that is because of Islam but rather in spite of it

by Guest Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:46 pm

Didge wrote:Are British values superior to Mr Parveen’s? I do hope so... ?

Wow where have I heard that argument before?
So is anyone going to tell me what these superior British values are?

Binge drinking?

Domestic violence?

Child rape?

Football Hooliganism

I mean going by the racist logic in the article and how certain things happen by some in a country and culture, then surely if there is a certain level of this in this country, do we attribute just 4 of the examples I have provided as a British culture or values?

what a moron....lets look at this

football holiganism....on a rapid decline year on year since the late 80's and if you think britain is the ONLY place it happens you are sadly mistaken...our hooligans are amateurs compared to some countries...

so NOT a part of essentially "british culture"

child rape...again...you recon this is a "british problem"?? then you are a bigger plonker than I thought....

the good 'ole USof A

so say about 70,000 sexually abused kids in 2012, for approx 312.8 million population

then we have this

A compilation of the key statistics on child sexual abuse from research and official publications

Related NSPCC resources

Sexual abuse homepage

Online safety statistics

How safe are our children? The 20 indicators

Statistics homepage

April 2014

1 in 20 children have been sexually abused.

Over 90% of children who have experienced sexual abuse, were abused by someone they knew.

18,915 sexual crimes against children under 16 were recorded in England and Wales in 2012/13. for a population of about 63.3 million

so the states has a population of about 5 times ours...but an abuse rate that is 3.7 times higher...

child rape a "british thing" i think not

AUSTRALIA

population 22.8 million.....child rape 5800 so 1/3rd of our population about 1/3 abuse rate....so the same...

child rape a british thing...I think not

Domestic violence

America

On average, 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a year.[i] (from http://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/statistics/)

Britain

In 2011/12, 7.3% women (1.2 million) and 5% men (800,000) report
having experienced domestic abuse (from www.womensaid.org.uk/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=1602)
.
So 5 times the population but 6 times the domestic abuse

domestic violence a "british thing"...I think not

Binge drinking....first and foremost is this an indicator of a culure suffering damage from some influence...rather than a cause...

America.

Binge drinking is the most common pattern of excessive alcohol use in the United States. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and AlcoholismExternal Web Site Icon defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 grams percent or above. This typically happens when men consume 5 or more drinks, and when women consume 4 or more drinks, in about 2 hours.1

Most people who binge drink are not alcohol dependent.

According to national surveys

One in six U.S. adults binge drinks about four times a month, consuming about eight drinks per binge.2
While binge drinking is more common among young adults aged 18–34 years, binge drinkers aged 65 years and older report binge drinking more often—an average of five to six times a month.2
Binge drinking is more common among those with household incomes of $75,000 or more than among those with lower incomes.2
Approximately 92% of U.S. adults who drink excessively report binge drinking in the past 30 days.3
Although college students commonly binge drink, 70% of binge drinking episodes involve adults age 26 years and older.4
The prevalence of binge drinking among men is twice the prevalence among women.2
Binge drinkers are 14 times more likely to report alcohol-impaired driving than non-binge drinkers.4
About 90% of the alcohol consumed by youth under the age of 21 in the United States is in the form of binge drinks.5
More than half of the alcohol consumed by adults in the United States is in the form of binge drinks.5

britain is about 1 in 4 over 15

HOWEVER it is difficult to find like for like stats here... the COSTS to society are estimated as about the same...so
again binge drinking a "british thing"...I think noT...We actually come 25th in the overall alcool consumption stakes so.....

You see this is what didge the progressive does....crys down his own country, posts carefulll clipped "information" and supplies "disinformation"

how can anyone hate their own country so much....no pride no honour....

Also how do we even teach this?

So where are these values that is being claimed come from?

Have to say just about the most racist article I have read in some time really.

by veya_victaous Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:25 am

It is True, All Cultures Are Inferior to the Glorious Convict Nation Razz

Part of the Problem is you say British Values like they are anything to be proud of, you guys didn't stop being asshole to MOST of the world in to after WW2 why would anyone think ohh British Values are something to Aspire to. Their greatest Heroes are literally Men that Fought AGAINST Secular Democracy (Nelson , Wellington etc)

Maybe If you Said Modern Secular Values, People could go yeah that are something to aspire to, But a nation that Completely owes it current position to oppression if inflicted on others in the Past can rightful told to STFU, you have NO moral high ground.

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:02 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Didge wrote:Are British values superior to Mr Parveen’s? I do hope so... ?

Wow where have I heard that argument before?
So is anyone going to tell me what these superior British values are?

Binge drinking?

Domestic violence?

Child rape?

Football Hooliganism

I mean going by the racist logic in the article and how certain things happen by some in a country and culture, then surely if there is a certain level of this in this country, do we attribute just 4 of the examples I have provided as a British culture or values?

what a moron....lets look at this

football holiganism....on a rapid decline year on year since the late 80's and if you think britain is the ONLY place it happens you are sadly mistaken...our hooligans are amateurs compared to some countries...

so NOT a part of essentially "british culture"

child rape...again...you recon this is a "british problem"?? then you are a bigger plonker than I thought....

the good 'ole USof A

so say about 70,000 sexually abused kids in 2012, for approx 312.8 million population

then we have this

A compilation of the key statistics on child sexual abuse from research and official publications

Related NSPCC resources

Sexual abuse homepage

Online safety statistics

How safe are our children? The 20 indicators

Statistics homepage

April 2014

1 in 20 children have been sexually abused.

Over 90% of children who have experienced sexual abuse, were abused by someone they knew.

18,915 sexual crimes against children under 16 were recorded in England and Wales in 2012/13. for a population of about 63.3 million

so the states has a population of about 5 times ours...but an abuse rate that is 3.7 times higher...

child rape a "british thing" i think not

AUSTRALIA

population 22.8 million.....child rape 5800 so 1/3rd of our population about 1/3 abuse rate....so the same...

child rape a british thing...I think not

Domestic violence

America

On average, 24 people per minute are victims of rape, physical violence or stalking by an intimate partner in the United States — more than 12 million women and men over the course of a year. (from http://www.thehotline.org/is-this-abuse/statistics/)

Britain

In 2011/12, 7.3% women (1.2 million) and 5% men (800,000) report
having experienced domestic abuse (from www.womensaid.org.uk/core/core_picker/download.asp?id=1602)
.
So 5 times the population but 6 times the domestic abuse

domestic violence a "british thing"...I think not

Binge drinking....first and foremost is this an indicator of a culure suffering damage from some influence...rather than a cause...

America.

Binge drinking is the most common pattern of excessive alcohol use in the United States. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and AlcoholismExternal Web Site Icon defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 grams percent or above. This typically happens when men consume 5 or more drinks, and when women consume 4 or more drinks, in about 2 hours.1

Most people who binge drink are not alcohol dependent.

According to national surveys

One in six U.S. adults binge drinks about four times a month, consuming about eight drinks per binge.2
While binge drinking is more common among young adults aged 18–34 years, binge drinkers aged 65 years and older report binge drinking more often—an average of five to six times a month.2
Binge drinking is more common among those with household incomes of $75,000 or more than among those with lower incomes.2
Approximately 92% of U.S. adults who drink excessively report binge drinking in the past 30 days.3
Although college students commonly binge drink, 70% of binge drinking episodes involve adults age 26 years and older.4
The prevalence of binge drinking among men is twice the prevalence among women.2
Binge drinkers are 14 times more likely to report alcohol-impaired driving than non-binge drinkers.4
About 90% of the alcohol consumed by youth under the age of 21 in the United States is in the form of binge drinks.5
More than half of the alcohol consumed by adults in the United States is in the form of binge drinks.5

britain is about 1 in 4 over 15

HOWEVER it is difficult to find like for like stats here... the COSTS to society are estimated as about the same...so
again binge drinking a "british thing"...I think noT...We actually come 25th in the overall alcool consumption stakes so.....

You see this is what didge the progressive does....crys down his own country, posts carefulll clipped "information" and supplies "disinformation"

how can anyone hate their own country so much....no pride no honour....

Also how do we even teach this?

So where are these values that is being claimed come from?

Have to say just about the most racist article I have read in some time really.

Yes you are a idiot SS-Obergruppenführer Victor as you can even read what I said and fell right into whatI expected you to do defend any claim against the country based upon fallacies, where I never stated myself these are British values, what I did see was this and will highlight for you:

[i] I mean going by the racist logic in the article and how certain things happen by some in a country and culture, then surely if there is a certain level of this in this country, do we attribute just 4 of the examples I have provided as a British culture or values?

It was also a question and you went to great lengths and even daft ones to prove this was not the case and thus ended up proving my point, how the article was racist to claim other cultures were inferior based off how a Government or power acts with laws, or how some within a nation act. Your most absurd defense was to compare child sex abuse and binge drinking to America,which would not mean this was not a value here using the daft racist logic of the article, but that it is one here but also in America, so that was about the most idiotic points you have made to date. The funniest part is you went to such great lengths to prove your point and never proved anything other than to show we were not as bad as America, sorry egg on face big time

So reality is though people abroad do hold also stereotypes of the British themselves:

The British public drinks too much, has a terrible sense of humour and the weather is awful, according to research that asked foreign expats what they liked and disliked about living here. Almost a third of those questioned said they did not like living in Britain, with the weather, culture and cuisine cited as reasons.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/too-much-drinking-sarcastic-humour-and-awful-weather-british-culture-revealed-according-to-expats-living-here-8787673.html

Now do not agree with their views, because to them they just did not like the country but plenty of others do, so again it is how some sterotypes form but this country is great for reasons I will list soon.

So what do they think of us as Tourists:

BRITISH TOURISTS ARE THE LOUSIEST TOURISTS IN THE WORLD:

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/why-british-people-make-lousy-tourists

You see more stereotypes, when there are just as many people who do not act this way , but because so do, the stereotype stocks, which is very wrong, just as it is when other label other nations, based off laws by the religious or political elites within that society.

Now British values and what I see them as and what makes this country great.

Its dry wit and sense of humour, which many do not get, how we can take the piss out of each other and at great length.

The stiff upper lip, this has been etched into our history of never bowing down to oppression against the nation, with great examples like Roorkes Drift, Churchill's defiance to not bow down and accept defeat but raise the nation behind each other as one, how even with the terrorism of the IRA and more recent Islamic extremism, people stand united against the terrorists and will not allow them to be bowed down with fear.

Defending others from the bigger bully, our tolerance towards many things, our history, our passion and love of sport, community spirit, our local dialects, I could go on the list is endless, but these are made from good things, not bad, the point you miss, and what the idiot who wrote the article clearly missed.

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:53 am

A Muslim schools inspector employed by Ofsted in London refused to shake hands with women teachers, the education watchdog admitted today.

Teachers complained that he snubbed female members of staff because he said it went against his Islamic faith.

The revelation follows the “Trojan horse” extremism row that saw Ofsted and the Government attacking schools for failing to “promote tolerance”.

In particular Government officials criticised one Birmingham primary where a male teacher had refused to shake hands with a female inspector.

Ofsted received complaints about the London incident and has indicated that the inspector was a contractor, and that soon the watchdog will no longer outsource inspections to private firms.

But an upset member of staff said: “It’s double standards by Ofsted. They can’t criticise teachers for not being tolerant when someone inspecting for them is refusing to shake women’s hands.” Ofsted’s code of conduct says all inspectors should treat staff with “courtesy, respect and sensitivity”. An official told the Standard it would not comment on complaints about individual inspectors but added: “We can confirm that the person in question is an additional inspector contracted by our inspection service providers.”

The organisation is now changing its rules so it no longer uses inspectors contracted in from the outside.

Concerns over extremism in Birmingham schools were raised after controversial Ofsted inspection reports were published last month. The report on Oldknow Academy said of the Birmingham school: “The curriculum does not promote tolerance and harmony be- tween different cultural traditions.”

Education Funding Agency inspectors who visited the school complained that a member of staff did not shake a female inspector’s hand “for religious reasons”. Their report said: “He was surprised she did not know that.”

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/muslim-school-inspector-employed-by-ofsted-refuses-to-shake-womens-hands-9527387.html

i think he misogynist thinks this culture is superior to British culture

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:55 am

Saudi minister says beheading, lashings 'cannot be changed'

Saudi Arabia’s Justice Minister has defended tough Sharia punishments such as beheading, cutting off hands and lashing, claiming they “cannot be changed” because they are enshrined in Islamic law.

“These punishments are based on divine religious texts and we cannot change them,” Mohammed Al Eissa reportedly said during a recent speech in Washington.

The minister said Islamic law had helped to reduce crime in the conservative kingdom.

Capital punishment was carried out in many other countries, including the US, and was not isolated to Islamic states, he said.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/saudi-minister-says-beheading-lashings-cannot-be-changed--553582.html#.U5q7fSimVeo

or perhaps this is the culture that didge the Muslim thinks is superior to British culture??

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:56 am

no wait

it MUST be this culture didge is talking about

A Tunisian man is accused of burning his 13-year-old daughter to death for walking home from school with a male classmate May 28 in Ibn Khaldoun, a suburb of Tunis.

Aya, a middle school student, died on June 7 from fourth-degree burns, Kapitalis and other local news sources reported.

“The father has been arrested since the incident occurred,” Allala Rouhma, a spokesperson for the Tunis Court of First Instance, told Tunisia Live. The father’s name has not been released.

Aya spent nine days in the Ben Arous Hospital for Burns and Injuries before succumbing to her injuries.

Aya’s death has been seen as resulting from an ‘honor crime,’ a killing committed in response to perceived shaming of the family. Such practices are almost unheard of in modern Tunisia.

These crimes target mostly women. Extramarital sex, or even suspicion of it, is a major cause.

Aya’s death shocked the country and sparked an indignant response from many Tunisians.

One group of activists called for a silent march in her memory on June 19. The Facebook event, ‘Aya, Voice of the Victim,’ called on Tunisians to participate and denounce her death and honor killings.

“This act is nothing more than a sign of a sick and suffering society that continues to demonize the female gender,” said the event’s page.

“What happened is strange in our society,” Feten Abdelkafi, one of the event’s organizers, told Tunisia Live.

“The poor girl was just returning from school with her classmate. I can’t believe that a father could do such a thing to his daughter,” she added.

Activists have called for greater media coverage of Aya’s death.

- See more at: http://www.tunisia-live.net/2014/06/11/man-burns-daughter-to-death-in-suspected-honor-killing/#sthash.JLksQmT2.dpuf

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:11 am

Allah Mafi was strangled to death by her two elder brothers and the brother-in-law for marrying a person of her choice.

Yousafwal Station House Officer Qalbe Abbas told Dawn a raid was conducted at the house of Allah Mafi’s parents to rescue her on the information of her husband, but she had been taken to some other place.

The SHO said by the time the police tracked down her whereabouts, the news of her killing had spread in the village.

Reports said 21-year-old Allah Mafi, who belonged to the Dhakoo family, fell in love with a Baloch youth, Anser, of her own village. Both of them ran from their houses and contracted a court marriage in Sahiwal about six months back.

The couple returned to their village after one month and started living with the parents of Anser.

Villagers said a dialogue started between Anser and her wife families in the presence of village elders, but Anser did not allow her wife to visit her parents’ house.

Anser had informed Dawn on May 4 that his wife’s elder brothers -- Muzzamil and Haroon -- along with their brother-in-law Jahangir visited his house in his absence and took Mafi to her parents’ house after convincing his mother.

Anser said he rushed to the house of his wife’s parents, but he was not welcomed there at all and he immediately reported the matter to police. SHO Qalbe Abbas confirmed the same day that the police had registered a kidnap case on the complaint of Anser.

It is learnt that Allah Mafi was taken to the farmhouse of her brother-in-law from where her body was found the next day.

Yousafwala police have registered a murder case against absconding accused Muzzamil, Haroon and Jahangir on the complaint of Anser.

The post-mortem report confirmed that Allah Mafi was strangled to death.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1111099/another-girl-falls-victim-to-honour-killing

by stardesk Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:23 pm

Certain members of this forum criticize those of us who wish to keep Britain, British, with its long history, heritage, and values. It's no good saying we're boozers and footy hooligans, that's only a minority.
Or, as I said in another topic, have I got it all wrong? Should I have sexually molested my 2 daughters? Should I have murdered them for daring to marry someone they loved? Perhaps I should have married them off to a rich uncle to protect the family honour.

For God and country's sake, stop pretending foriegn religious practices wont harm our way of life. Yes it's fine being humane and altruistic, but surely each to its own, in its own country.

Please don't tell me about the British who now live abroad. Who can blame them when successive governments have naffed up our country with the Eu and an open door policy.

Right, having got that off my chest, I'll cover the wife's face with a net, chain her to the sink, and when we're out make her walk ten paces behind me.

Argh!!! Time for a puff on my pipe out in the sun, and remember what my country used to be like.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:47 pm

veya_victaous wrote:It is True, All Cultures Are Inferior to the Glorious Convict Nation
Part of the Problem is you say British Values like they are anything to be proud of, you guys didn't stop being asshole to MOST of the world in to after WW2 why would anyone think ohh British Values are something to Aspire to. Their greatest Heroes are literally Men that Fought AGAINST Secular Democracy (Nelson , Wellington etc)
Maybe If you Said Modern Secular Values, People could go yeah that are something to aspire to, But a nation that Completely owes it current position to oppression if inflicted on others in the Past can rightful told to STFU, you have NO moral high ground.

Why do you always go on about the few bastards who were in charge and forget about the millions of British people who were also subjugated...???

Have you ever been to Britain?

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:51 pm

stardesk wrote:Certain members of this forum criticize those of us who wish to keep Britain, British, with its long history, heritage, and values. It's no good saying we're boozers and footy hooligans, that's only a minority.
Or, as I said in another topic, have I got it all wrong? Should I have sexually molested my 2 daughters? Should I have murdered them for daring to marry someone they loved? Perhaps I should have married them off to a rich uncle to protect the family honour.

For God and country's sake, stop pretending foriegn religious practices wont harm our way of life. Yes it's fine being humane and altruistic, but surely each to its own, in its own country.

Please don't tell me about the British who now live abroad. Who can blame them when successive governments have naffed up our country with the Eu and an open door policy.

Right, having got that off my chest, I'll cover the wife's face with a net, chain her to the sink, and when we're out make her walk ten paces behind me.

Argh!!! Time for a --- out in the sun, and remember what my country used to be like.

Hi Stardesk,

So you say killing their daughters is a religious practice when they want to marry someone else? Is that why Christians, Hindus and Muslims do this and that the reality is that some uphold more value on obtaining money than their own children and seek to gain out of them. It is completely wrong I agree, but not all are like this in fact many are not like this or believe in honor codes. This is the problem, I deliberately used samples in this country as a problem to e absurdity of the xenophobia and fear in the article to use her logic and now your logic the same could be argued again with bad things that happen in this country, that with estimates of 300,000 pedophiles, then any other nation looking at Britain how you do with honour killings should thus form the same logical view as you on this being a British cultural practice, correct ?

The reality is some barbaric practices do harm us, not only from abroad but here in our own country with our own people, to use fear again off the ones that do, seeks to castigate all with such a claim. Like I said I am British and I would not think the vast majority has a culture of child rape far from it, the same with many people who from these countries where they are stereotyped. You do not change the world for the better by placing fear onto others and segregating the world, where in leads to constant conflict. This is the actual aim of the Islamic extremists, to have so much hate directed against Muslims, that they believe many more Muslims will unite behind their extremism. We stood up to the IRA, no matter what they threw at us and the same with Islamic extremism, you do not feed them exactly what they want, where people end up divided. AS this is exactly what a has gone on already for centuries between the West and the East, since the time of ancient Greeks and Persians, this divide has plagued humanities ability to get along, where people on both sides play on the fear and crimes they see as committed against each other. The very fact their is Muslim, women, gay support groups for example shows how far such things can be achieved and where others will see this also.

So do you tackle the problems and issues with fear and hate, or take away there ability and capacity to divide people thus uniting many Muslims as well to take the fight to the extremists? They are hardly going to do this when as a group they are constantly castigated as a whole because of what extremists do and what as seen people in the west do, which then has a knock on affect driving and increasing more extremism on both sides. Hence why both far right an Islamic extremism, has the same objectives, to seek hate between everyone on the ground, so they get their war they both wish to attempt to wipe out each other.

by Lone Wolf Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:01 pm

stardesk wrote:
Certain members of this forum criticize those of us who wish to keep Britain, British, with its long history, heritage, and values. It's no good saying we're boozers and footy hooligans, that's only a minority...............

For God and country's sake, stop pretending foriegn [sic] religious practices wont harm our way of life. Yes it's fine being humane and altruistic, but surely each to its own, in its [sic] own country.

.........................

SO, THEN ! Let's consider just a few of those religions that are "foreign" to the U.K. shall we ?

Christianity
SDA
LDS
'Christian science'
Judaism
Islam
B'hai B'rith
Hinduism
Sikhs
Buddhism
Shinto
Taoism
Confucianism
'Shamanism'
Jedi Knights

THE only religions that can be considered as genuinely 'indigenous' to British, and especially English culture are probably Paganism and Druidism... Idea

LOOKS like Victor is the main one among the Brit's on here on 'the right track', by Stardesk's churlish remarks ~ I wonder if SD himself has become a Druid or Pagan, as yet - practising what he preaches..

HOW many here are prepared to follow the Stardesk road, and have the original native British religious beliefs brought back to their rightful position of prominence ? ::pntyswrd::

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:09 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
stardesk wrote:
Certain members of this forum criticize those of us who wish to keep Britain, British, with its long history, heritage, and values. It's no good saying we're boozers and footy hooligans, that's only a minority...............

For God and country's sake, stop pretending foriegn [sic] religious practices wont harm our way of life. Yes it's fine being humane and altruistic, but surely each to its own, in its [sic] own country.

.........................

SO, THEN ! Let's consider just a few of those religions that are "foreign" to the U.K. shall we ?

Christianity
SDA
LDS
'Christian science'
Judaism
Islam
B'hai B'rith
Hinduism
Sikhs
Buddhism
Shinto
Taoism
Confucianism
'Shamanism'
Jedi Knights

THE only religions that can be considered as genuinely 'indigenous' to British, and especially English culture are probably Paganism and Druidism...

LOOKS like Victor is the main one among the Brit's on here on 'the right track', by Stardesk's churlish remarks ~ I wonder if SD himself has become a Druid or Pagan, as yet - practising what he preaches..

HOW many here are prepared to follow the Stardesk road, and have the original native British religious beliefs brought back to their rightful position of prominence ? ::pntyswrd::

and which of those religions listed have done harm to the British way of life? Only one as far as I can see...

Oh and your mammy just rang - she said get the fuck off her laptop and clean up the basement.

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:36 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:

SO, THEN ! Let's consider just a few of those religions that are "foreign" to the U.K. shall we ?

Christianity
SDA
LDS
'Christian science'
Judaism
Islam
B'hai B'rith
Hinduism
Sikhs
Buddhism
Shinto
Taoism
Confucianism
'Shamanism'
Jedi Knights

THE only religions that can be considered as genuinely 'indigenous' to British, and especially English culture are probably Paganism and Druidism...

LOOKS like Victor is the main one among the Brit's on here on 'the right track', by Stardesk's churlish remarks ~ I wonder if SD himself has become a Druid or Pagan, as yet - practising what he preaches..

HOW many here are prepared to follow the Stardesk road, and have the original native British religious beliefs brought back to their rightful position of prominence ? ::pntyswrd::

and which of those religions listed have done harm to the British way of life? Only one as far as I can see...

Oh and your mammy just rang - she said get the fuck off her laptop and clean up the basement.

Either none of them have, or all have done harm, because having different beliefs has the bases for ones persons claim to their faith over another. Now if you want be correct factually, Christianity, Islam etc are the wrong words, because it is some of these followers who have harmed the British way of life and please do not tell me the dispute in Northern Ireland is just a national divide because it is also a religious divide and this country has been plagued by religiously based interpretations of Christianity that have cause warfare and violence, as I am sure who will tel me what religious tolerance there was for Roman Catholics in this country after the unification ad religion was one of the main causes for the English civil war. What has changed is that people no have access to much information and now can contest religious accounts, hence less believe and of those that do in the west, though still very strong in America, is that many Christians do not take the bible literally anymore. Thus hence again why no religious or political elites can hold sway on society

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:38 pm

It's more about backwards cultures being not just allowed but actively encouraged to flourish that is The problem.
People have been led to think that they can just come here and carry on as normal like they would back where they came from.
The spine less lefties have allowed this for dear of insulting the poor foreigners, and cultural sensitivities etc.
Somehow it is wrong to expect people arriving to ached by our laws and fit in.

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:It's more about backwards cultures being not just allowed but actively encouraged to flourish that is The problem.
People have been led to think that they can just come here and carry on as normal like they would back where they came from.
The spine less lefties have allowed this for dear of insulting the poor foreigners, and cultural sensitivities etc.
Somehow it is wrong to expect people arriving to ached by our laws and fit in.

Well your views are clearly very backward and behind the times as British values treats homosexuals rightly as equals, so why do you lack these British values?
Where shall we send you using your logic, in that you hold backward views?
South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:10 pm

I don't discriminate chains homosexuals, or wish them to be hanged or stoned to death, however your Muslim friends here do exactly that, so what not gonna do about it...???

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:26 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I don't discriminate chains homosexuals, or wish them to be hanged or stoned to death, however your Muslim friends here do exactly that, so what not gonna do about it...???

Neither do many Muslims who are here, but according your logic, people should leave if thy hold backward views and you views as seen on homosexuality are very backward, thus you seek to undermine British values

by stardesk Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:29 pm

Lone Wolf, yes I spelled 'foreign' wrong, too many fingers getting excited. Bye the way, I'll look for you at Stonehenge on the 21st, mid-summer solstice celebration. Don't forget your robe and your pentagram pendant and Pan pipes.

I didn't specifically mention Christianity, although we must surely consider it as being the backbone of our heritage, after all, it's been here for nigh on 2,000 years. It's moral values etc etc, helped to make us what we are today. Despite there now being many different Christian sects, all proclaiming to be the right one, they do of course all follow the Bible. I'm talking about today, not the ancient past, so unlike Islamic religious laws and morals, ours are different, and have more respect for the individual, male and female.

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:39 pm

stardesk wrote:Lone Wolf, yes I spelled 'foreign' wrong, too many fingers getting excited. Bye the way, I'll look for you at Stonehenge on the 21st, mid-summer solstice celebration. Don't forget your robe and your pentagram pendant and Pan pipes.

I didn't specifically mention Christianity, although we must surely consider it as being the backbone of our heritage, after all, it's been here for nigh on 2,000 years. It's moral values etc etc, helped to make us what we are today. Despite there now being many different Christian sects, all proclaiming to be the right one, they do of course all follow the Bible. I'm talking about today, not the ancient past, so unlike Islamic religious laws and morals, ours are different, and have more respect for the individual, male and female.

Celts have been here longer, does that mean they get more of a say than you Stardesk and our morals are different not based on Christianity that we have today, because when religious and political elites of Christianity ruled, it was biblical laws that were enacted Staresk. So to me what made us what we are today was standing up to Christian ideology promoted by he religious and political elite, where in each case the Church of England has tied to stem moral equal views from becoming a reality, no matter how far you go back it is the Church of England, who were for one quite predominant as members of parliament being also clergy that tried to hinder many times over progression in this country over a very long time. As I say when thy held power it was very much the same here that you see today in some Islamic countries an it was free thinkers wishing to challenge th power of the Church that saw women get votes.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:47 pm

More diversion from dodge.
Some other cultures are third world and should not be tolerated here.

by Lone Wolf Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:55 pm

Tesstacious wrote:
Lone Wolf wrote:

SO, THEN ! Let's consider just a few of those religions that are "foreign" to the U.K. shall we ?
............................

HOW many here are prepared to follow the Stardesk road, and have the original native British religious beliefs brought back to their rightful position of prominence ? ::pntyswrd::

and which of those religions listed have done harm to the British way of life? Only one as far as I can see...

Oh and your mammy just rang - she said get the fuck off her laptop and clean up the basement.

IF IMITATION be considered as the "sincerest form of flattery"...

THEN no doubt I should consider it an acknowledgement and complement of my superior wittiness and humour in these matters, that Tess' has seen fit to borrow my oft-used insult against smellybum' (and his little mate Staphlos..), and attempt to use it against me on this thread ?

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 3:06 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:
Tesstacious wrote:

and which of those religions listed have done harm to the British way of life? Only one as far as I can see...

Oh and your mammy just rang - she said get the fuck off her laptop and clean up the basement.

IF IMITATION be considered as the "sincerest form of flattery"...

THEN no doubt I should consider it an acknowledgement and complement of my superior wittiness and humour in these matters, that Tess' has seen fit to borrow my oft-used insult against smellybum' (and his little mate Staphlos..), and attempt to use it against me on this thread ?

Don't flatter yourself little boy - it's a common insult aimed at childish posters...

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 4:09 pm

Didge wrote:
stardesk wrote:Certain members of this forum criticize those of us who wish to keep Britain, British, with its long history, heritage, and values. It's no good saying we're boozers and footy hooligans, that's only a minority.
Or, as I said in another topic, have I got it all wrong? Should I have sexually molested my 2 daughters? Should I have murdered them for daring to marry someone they loved? Perhaps I should have married them off to a rich uncle to protect the family honour.

For God and country's sake, stop pretending foriegn religious practices wont harm our way of life. Yes it's fine being humane and altruistic, but surely each to its own, in its own country.

Please don't tell me about the British who now live abroad. Who can blame them when successive governments have naffed up our country with the Eu and an open door policy.

Right, having got that off my chest, I'll cover the wife's face with a net, chain her to the sink, and when we're out make her walk ten paces behind me.

Argh!!! Time for a --- out in the sun, and remember what my country used to be like.

Hi Stardesk,

So you say killing their daughters is a religious practice when they want to marry someone else? Is that why Christians, Hindus and Muslims do this and that the reality is that some uphold more value on obtaining money than their own children and seek to gain out of them. It is completely wrong I agree, but not all are like this in fact many are not like this or believe in honor codes. This is the problem, I deliberately used samples in this country as a problem to e absurdity of the xenophobia and fear in the article to use her logic and now your logic the same could be argued again with bad things that happen in this country, that with estimates of 300,000 pedophiles, then any other nation looking at Britain how you do with honour killings should thus form the same logical view as you on this being a British cultural practice, correct ?

The reality is some barbaric practices do harm us, not only from abroad but here in our own country with our own people, to use fear again off the ones that do, seeks to castigate all with such a claim. Like I said I am British and I would not think the vast majority has a culture of child rape far from it, the same with many people who from these countries where they are stereotyped. You do not change the world for the better by placing fear onto others and segregating the world, where in leads to constant conflict. This is the actual aim of the Islamic extremists, to have so much hate directed against Muslims, that they believe many more Muslims will unite behind their extremism. We stood up to the IRA, no matter what they threw at us and the same with Islamic extremism, you do not feed them exactly what they want, where people end up divided. AS this is exactly what a has gone on already for centuries between the West and the East, since the time of ancient Greeks and Persians, this divide has plagued humanities ability to get along, where people on both sides play on the fear and crimes they see as committed against each other. The very fact their is Muslim, women, gay support groups for example shows how far such things can be achieved and where others will see this also.

So do you tackle the problems and issues with fear and hate, or take away there ability and capacity to divide people thus uniting many Muslims as well to take the fight to the extremists? They are hardly going to do this when as a group they are constantly castigated as a whole because of what extremists do and what as seen people in the west do, which then has a knock on affect driving and increasing more extremism on both sides. Hence why both far right an Islamic extremism, has the same objectives, to seek hate between everyone on the ground, so they get their war they both wish to attempt to wipe out each other.

Muslim culture enriching us

We were wrong, all cultures are not equal - Page 2 Articl10

by stardesk Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:36 pm

Just a brief note. Islamic extremism is on the increase. The Russians didn't defeat the Taliban, and despite what's been said, our forces and the Americans haven't eliminated them in Afghanistan. Now they're rising up in Iraq, so that was a waste of our soldiers time and lives.
Where ever Islam exists, there are the extremists, and the fear is their agenda and practices will/are spreading. Do you want to see another Lee Rigby, another tube and bus atrocities? More plane bombings? Of course not, but the longer we ignore these people, many of whom are already here, then beware.

by Ben Reilly Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:00 pm

Two Muslim women, Fatima and Miriam al-Firhi, created the world's first university, Al-Qarawiyyin in Fez, Morocco, in 859 AD. For several years, students were schooled here in a plethora of secular and religious subjects. At the end of their education, teachers evaluated students and awarded degrees based on satisfactory performances. The concept of awarding degrees would spread from Fez to Andalucía, Spain, and later to the Universities of Bologna in Italy and Oxford in England, among other places of learning.

Spanish Muslims of Andalucía were especially strong advocates of education and helped to dispel the gloom that had enveloped Europe during the Dark Ages. Between the 8th and 15th centuries, Andalucía was perhaps the world's epicenter for education and knowledge. Spanish universities such as those in Cordoba, Granada, and Seville, had Christian and Jewish students who learned science from Muslims. Women were also encouraged to study in Muslim Spain. This educational environment that stressed tolerance would not reach the "Western world" until the 19th and 20th centuries.

Contributions to philosophy

One of the greatest Muslim contributions to civilization began in the 8th century when Muslim scholars inherited volumes of Greek philosophy. The wisdom in ancient Greece texts, which had been lost to Europeans, was translated from Latin to Arabic by Muslim scholars, thus creating one of the greatest transmissions of knowledge in world history. Muslims scholars would eventually bring the ideas of great ancient Greek minds such as Socrates, Aristotle and Plato into Europe, where their philosophy was translated into other European languages. This is why Muslims are the main threshold behind the European Renaissance and the Enlightenment, two movements that resurrected Greek philosophy and gave new life into a European continent that was bogged down with religious dogma and bloody internal conflicts.

Many Muslim scholars made acquiring knowledge their life goal. Perhaps the most notable of these scholars is Al-Ghazali, a Sufi Muslim who in the 11th and 12th centuries revolutionized early Islamic philosophy by helping develop Neoplatonism, which is often described as the "mystical" or "religious" interpretation of Greek philosophy. At the time of Al-Ghazali's writing, Muslim philosophers had read about the ideas of ancient Greece, but these ideas were generally perceived to be in conflict with Islamic teachings. Al-Ghazali helped synthesize these elements by adopting the techniques of Aristotelian logic and the Neoplatonic ways to diminish the negative influences of excessive Islamic rationalism.

Ibn Khaldun is another one of the most important Muslim thinkers in history. Recognized as one of the greatest historians ever and the founder of sociological sciences in the 14th and 15th centuries, Khaldun created one of the earliest nonreligious philosophies in history in his work, the Muqaddimah. He also paved the way for our expectations of modern-day Presidents and Prime Ministers by creating a framework for evaluating "good rulers," stating "the sovereign exists for the good of the people... The necessity of a Ruler arises from the fact that human beings have to live together and unless there is some one to maintain order, society would break to pieces."

Contributions to health care

Medicine is another crucial contribution to civilization made by Muslims in addition to education and the university system. In 872 in Cairo, Egypt, the Ahmad ibn Tulun hospital was created and equipped with an elaborate institution and a range of functions. Like other Islamic hospitals that soon followed, Tulun was a secular institution open to men and women, adults and children, the rich and poor, as well as Muslims and non-Muslims. Tulun is also the earliest hospital to give care to the mentally ill.

One hundred years after the founding of Tulun, a surgeon named Al-Zahrawi, often called the "father of surgery," wrote an illustrated encyclopedia that would ultimately be used as a guide to European surgeons for the next five hundred years. Al-Zarawhi's surgical instruments, such as scalpels, bone saws, and forceps are still used by modern surgeons. Al-Zahrawi is also reportedly the first surgeon to perform a caesarean operation.

Another significant Muslim discovery came in the 13th century, when the Muslim medic Ibn Nafis described the pulmonary circulation almost three hundred years before William Harvey, the English physician who is believed by many Westerners to have "discovered" it. The technique of inoculation, or the introduction of an antigenic substance or vaccine into the body to induce immunity to a disease, is also said to have been designed by Muslims in Turkey and brought to Europe by the wife of England's Turkish ambassador in 1724.

Protecting and cleansing the body has always been a priority for Muslims. Perhaps then it is no surprised that Muslim scientists combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil to create a recipe for soap, which is still used today. Shampoo was also introduced to England on the Brighton seafront in 1759 at Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths.

Contributions to science

There is also little doubt that the development of astronomy owes a great deal to the work of Muslim astronomers. As far back as the early 9th century, the Caliph Al-Ma'mum founded an astronomical observatory in Shammasiya in Baghdad and Qasiyun in Damascus. Five hundred years later, in 1420, Prince Ulugh Bey built a massive observatory in Samarqand, which was then followed in 1577 by another observatory built by Sultan Murad III in Istanbul.

The Ottomans had particularly well-organized astronomical institutions such as the post of chief-astronomer and time-keeping houses. Taqi al-Din, a 16th century Ottoman astronomer, created astronomical tables and observational instruments that helped measure the coordinates of stars and the distances between them.

Muslims have also made contributions in the field of chemistry by inventing many of the basic processes and apparatuses used by modern-day chemists. Working in the 8th and 9th centuries in Andalucía, Jabir Ibn Hayyan, the founder of modern chemistry, transformed alchemy into chemistry through distillation, or separating liquids through differences in their boiling points. In addition to developing the processes of crystallization, evaporation, and filtration, he also discovered sulphuric and nitric acid. The historian Erick John Holmyard stated that Hayyan's work is as important, if not more, than that of Robert Boyle and Antoine Lavoisier, two European chemists who are frequently attributed to creating modern chemistry.

Indeed our very modern and globalized world today would not be able to move so quickly if it were not for the genius of Ibn Firnas, a Muslim engineer of Andalucía who in the 9th century constructed a flying machine, thus becoming the world's first aviator. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba, Spain, using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. Although he hoped to glide like an eagle, Ibn Firnas did not, though he is credited for creating the first parachute.

Muslims have also influenced the study of physics, a closely linked field to flying and aviation. Mohammad Abdus Salam, a Pakistani theoretical physicist, shared a 1979 Nobel Prize for his contribution to the field of theoretical physics, specifically in unifying electromagnetic and weak forces.

I have only scratched the surface of the contributions made by Muslims to the development of civilization. Children around the world should be taught about these contributions to dispel the misperception that Muslims are backward and stagnant. Muslims worldwide must also invest more in education, medicine, and other sciences in order to continue their tradition of being pioneers for knowledge.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/overcoming-historical-amnesia_b_4135868.html

by Tommy Monk Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:47 pm

The historical amnesia is all from the huff and puff here I'm afraid.....

by Guest Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:52 pm

No, it's documented fact that people like you like to ignore and all the huffing and puffing you do cannot make the documented evidence go away.

by Ben Reilly Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The historical amnesia is all from the huff and puff here I'm afraid.....

So you're saying what -- that they just made all of that up?!

by Guest Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:01 am

Of course he is Ben, if he believed anything else his brain would explode! cherry

by Irn Bru Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:06 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The historical amnesia is all from the huff and puff here I'm afraid.....

So you're saying what -- that they just made all of that up?!

Waffle lies and spin Ben. That's the standard response you get when they're stuck for an answer or at least something to counter the evidence presented.

by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:56 am

Waffle lies and spin is all you lefties got.

Can you point out where I have waffled lied or spun on this thread please....???

Didn't think so....

by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Waffle lies and spin is all you lefties got.

Can you point out where I have waffled lied or spun on this thread please....???

Didn't think so....

Could you answer my question, then?

by Tommy Monk Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:48 am

Yes I can.

No I'm not.

by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 14, 2014 2:49 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes I can.

No I'm not.

Thought so ::=|Q::

by Original Quill Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:08 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Piss off fleakeeper.
You rarely contribute anything other than insults, but never dare to actually debate the points you are so sure of.....

Actually, I think he's quite effective. Here is what you said:

Tommy Monk wrote:Fact remains, most people from other countries, their culture should not be blowed to flourish here because it is third world and barbaric in comparison to ours.
But for too long the lefties Have been encouraging them to celebrate their culture and it has been growing here and A clear step backwards and incompatible with our ways and civilised country.
There should be only one culture here and That is British culture.
If someone from a shit hold wants to live that way then they can stay where they are.

If that isn't the most ignorant, unsubstantiated, ethnocentric bullshit I've ever seen, well I wanna know if you kiss your mother with that mouth. Lol. I think 'ole Beekeeper is to be commended for keeping it short, yet pithy and on-point.

by Sponsored content