Michael Gove's toxic assault on schools is based on naked discrimination

Thought I'd stir up the hornet's nest and put the other side of the coin.





Michael Gove's toxic assault on schools is based on naked discrimination
By branding religious conservatism 'extremism' in Birmingham, ministers are making it clear that different rules apply to Muslims

The harassment of minorities on the basis of forged documents has a grim history. So the official onslaught on mainly Muslim state schools in Birmingham, triggered by what has all the hallmarks of a fabricated letter outlining a supposed Islamist plot to take them over, should be cause for deep alarm.

Instead, the architect of the clampdown, education secretary Michael Gove, has been hailed by the bulk of the press for standing up to "extremism". Inspectors have now turned their attention to an alleged Islamic takeover of schools in Bradford, and a local MP has demanded action to halt the "Islamist infiltration" of east London politics.

All this is music to the ears of the neoconservative Gove, who regards political Islam as a totalitarian "enemy within" and has gone to war with the home secretary, Theresa May, over who can claim to be toughest on Muslim "extremism". Four separate inquiries, including by the former head of counter-terrorism at Scotland Yard, have been set in train.

Now the schools inspector Ofsted, transparently under political direction, has done what was expected of it. Five schools have been put in special measures, four lined up for takeover and 11 others taken to task – mostly for not teaching children enough about the threat of extremism.

But this extremism turns out to be a different beast from the one first trailed in lurid accusations a few months back. It is nothing to do with terrorism, or even the elastic boo-word of Islamism. The target is religious conservatism – or even just plain religiousness.

But for Gove – and now David Cameron – "nonviolent extremism" must be targeted as much as its violent counterpart. For those unclear what extremism might mean exactly, the government last year defined it as "opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect".

That clearly wouldn't apply to those involved with the targeted Birmingham schools – who, like most British Muslims, are more likely to identify with Britain than the rest of the population. But some are religious conservatives who Gove equates with "extremists" – convinced there is a "conveyor belt" from Muslim piety to terror.

So the inspectors had no problem finding the evidence required and what they claimed was a "culture of fear and intimidation", even if the evidence was thin on the ground. Teachers and parents say the fear and intimidation was rather spread by inspectors, who turned their findings on their head in 10 days.

They came up with a string of allegations, most based on hearsay, contested or exaggerated out of recognition according to teachers and parents. Christmas had been cancelled, it was said, music banned, an extremist preacher had addressed pupils, girls and boys were segregated, western women had been described as "white prostitutes".

The only prostitute mentioned turned out to be in a homily of the Prophet Muhammad's about a woman who saved a thirsty dog, Christmas events abounded in the censured schools, music was taught and gender segregation took place in PE, as in many other schools – while single sex schools are common across the country.

But the absurdity of the inspectors' findings is clearest in the case of Gracelands nursery school, whose staff were taken to task for failing to ensure its 2- to 4-year-olds were protected against "extreme and radical behaviour".

That's not to say, of course, that there's nothing behind the allegations, which have clearly been fed by former and current staff – or that there aren't legitimate grievances. These are not faith schools and some have clearly pushed the schools' religious boundaries.

It's just that they have nothing to do with extremism or terrorism, and could have easily been dealt with in a routine system of accountability. Instead, schools which had delivered outstanding results for deprived communities are now smeared and destabilised – and their pupils with them.

There's a powerful case for secular education. But it doesn't exist in Britain's schools, which are awash with religion. And unless the same rules apply to all, the result is naked discrimination. But has Gove sent inspectors to root out anti-abortionism and homophobia in Catholic or evangelical-sponsored schools, or cultural isolation in mainly white schools where racism is rife?

Not at all. Nor has he investigated the influence in schools of far-right extremists. Instead, he's effectively ordered two Birmingham schools serving overwhelmingly Muslim populations, Oldknow and Golden Hillock, to hold a "daily, broadly Christian act of worship" (excused in other such schools).

Of course, Gove's drive to break up and part-privatise the English school system has cut away the local accountability which could have checked some of the problems in Birmingham, which are now being used to line them up for a real takeover by his pet academy chains.

But the campaign to bring to heel Birmingham's schools and humiliate the Muslim community in the process is a wider threat in a country where war-fuelled Islamophobia is already rampant. Dog-whistling to Ukip bigotry might seem a cute electoral trick.

However, it risks driving Muslims from participation in public life, pushing Muslim pupils out of the state sector and boosting the extremism the government claims to be battling. Gove's assault on Muslim schools in Birmingham isn't about British values: it's a poisonous campaign of discrimination and intimidation.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/11/michael-gove-assault-on-schools-naked-discrimination

Still in denial aren't you Lefties....

Still a hysterical racist aren't you.

Yes you are.


You want to Keep open door for white Europeans but close the door on everyone else.

Tommy Monk wrote:Yes you are.


You want to Keep open door for white Europeans but close the door on everyone else.

Never seen Sassy say that. What is odd is how you always bring the colour of skin into the equation of any debate.

In his twisted little mind its because I want to stay in the EU and have people from the EU being able to come here and us going there (that's even after I showed him that more UK citizens work in the EU than EU citizens work in the UK), but restrict the number from outside the EU. He's a sad muppet.

So when BNP teachers lose their jobs it's good

When Muslims are investigated for extremism in schools it's "discrimination"

Surely we should be opposed to any extremism in schools??

But no

Once again the left expose their hypocrisy and openly defend Islamic extremism in schools

smelly_bandit wrote:So when BNP teachers lose their jobs it's good

When Muslims are investigated for extremism in schools it's "discrimination"

Surely we should be opposed to any extremism in schools??

But no

Once again the left expose their hypocrisy and openly defend Islamic extremism in schools

Nobody says it is wrong to investigate for extremism, what is being asked if there is any evidence for this.

So again you get it very wrong

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:So when BNP teachers lose their jobs it's good

When Muslims are investigated for extremism in schools it's "discrimination"

Surely we should be opposed to any extremism in schools??

But no

Once again the left expose their hypocrisy and openly defend Islamic extremism in schools

Nobody says it is wrong to investigate for extremism, what is being asked if there is any evidence for this.

So again you get it very wrong

Give it rest didge

The entire forum knows your stance on Islam

Where Islam is concerned you see no evil and hear no evil

No matter the inhumanity of the atrocity no matter the number of innocent victims

You always shrug it off and always take greater offence at people not liking halal or spray paint on a mosque

This thread calls an investigation - a toxic assault

I don't hear you disagreeing

As for evidence

What evidence is there of teachers who are BNP members teaching racism??

None and yet you are happy for them to lose their jobs in spite of a lack of evidence

But once again when Muslims are involved you change the rules

there is no discrimination,my neighbours Daughter who attends that School says it's all true and more.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:



Nobody says it is wrong to investigate for extremism, what is being asked if there is any evidence for this.

So again you get it very wrong

Give it  rest didge

The entire forum knows your stance on Islam
Do they that is news to me, when I think it is man made bullshit, justlike many of your posts

Where Islam is concerned you see no evil and hear no evil
I see it like any religion that throughout many they have people commit violence, the books are ridden with violence and condemn all of them as books that seek to instill fear into people to believe and if they do not not are condemned to eternal suffering probing the deities are nothing but the creation of bullies
I though do happen to believe that many people do not advocate violence if thy follow a religion, even if it is full of violence like the Bible and Quran
No matter the inhumanity of the atrocity no matter the number of innocent victims
I always condemn atrocities, so that is another lie

You always shrug it off and always take greater offence at people not liking halal or spray paint on a mosque
I never shrug off anything, I show how absurd you view point is being as you believe in the bible

This thread calls an investigation - a toxic assault

I don't hear you disagreeing

Do I disagree with the words, yes I do, toxic was poor, a witch hunt would have been more appropriate, when little evidence has been found.

1) BRITISH VALUES FOR BRITISH KIDS

Most of the papers lead with coverage of the controversy in Birmingham's schools and the education secretary's recommendations in the Commons yesterday afternoon. Everyone it seems, shock, horror, wants us to have 'British values'. You don't say, eh?

"All schools must promote 'British values', says Gove," is the splash in the Guardian

"British values in British schools, demands Gove," is the headline on the front of the Independent.

"All schools must teach what is is to be British," is the Times splash.

"Trojan Horse schools: the damning verdict," screams the headline on the Mail front page.

It's worth pointing out that while Ofsted accuses some of the schools at the centre of this scandal of, among other things, 'cancelling Christmas' and raffles, taking Muslim kids only on trips to Saudi Arabia and making disparaging remarks about 'white prostitutes' - all of which, if true, is unacceptable, discriminatory and needs to be stamped down on - it doesn't quite amount to a 'damning verdict'. Remember: the original accusation was that Islamist groups were trying to infiltrate and take over schools (hence the inflammatory phrase 'Operation Trojan Horse') and that schools were promoting extremism and Islamism. As far as I can see, Ofsted has found little evidence for these original, 'damning' claims.

As Shabana Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Ladywood, said: "The contents of the Ofsted reports make distressing reading for any resident of Birmingham. But what these reports do not prove is the central charge being levelled, which was that there was an organised effort to import extremism."

In fact, writing in the Guardian, a senior teacher at Park View, one of the schools accused of being part of an Islamist 'plot', accuses Ofsted inspectors of bias and prejudice:

"The inspectors' conduct during that second visit left pupils and staff feeling like suspects in a criminal investigation. From female pupils asked whether they were forced to wear the hijab (despite girls in the same class clearly not doing so) to one staff member being asked "Are you homophobic?", we were subjected to inappropriate and bizarre lines of questioning, designed to elicit the evidence required to damn us. This culminated on the second day in an inspector making a quip about there being "so many members of staff with beards" – a clearly Islamophobic comment."

Meanwhile, is a new row developing between Michael Gove and, this time, Ofsted chief Sir Michael Wilshaw? The latter told Newsnight yesterday that Gove had opposed snap inspections of schools two years ago and had only changed his mind in recent weeks in response to the so-called Trojan Horse allegations. The Department of Education disputes Wilshaw's claim.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/10/mehdis-morning-memo_178_n_5477180.html

The schools have Been placed under special measures

This would not happen without evidence

Do you think the government is prone to sharing what it knows with some halfwit on the internet??

There is evidence, if it wasn't happening it wouldn't be investigated

All you're doing is what you usually do, defend the indefensible and then tuck tail and run when it all blows open

Didge all your huffing and puffing wing change anything and in the end you will run away knowing you've lost

Especially when the evidence comes to light

smelly_bandit wrote:Didge all your huffing and puffing wing change anything and in the end you will run away knowing you've lost

Especially when the evidence comes to light

I never run away as you well know, you o that and disappear for months, now doubt constantly on the run

Who do you trust to print the truth? The Mail OR Huffington Post? [anyone?]

Hi Nicko

gerber calling..................  Anyone seems not willing to reply    

The wonderfully honest, middle of the road well researched Daily Mail of course.

It should have a blue top though.

nicko wrote:Who do you trust to print the truth?  The Mail OR Huffington Post?  [anyone?]

The Telegraph. And certainly NOT the Guardian!

Sassy wrote:Still a hysterical racist aren't you.

The terrorists apologist as usual. . What a denialist this trojan horse attempt is fact you dickhead woman.

What should I expect from someone who defends blowing up innocents incoffee shops, The security services should look at people like you.

Trojan Horse: Birmingham academy spent £50,000 on trip to Saudi Arabia using travel firm linked to school director

A Birmingham school at the centre of the Trojan Horse investigation spent £50,000 on a taxpayer-funded trip to Saudi Arabia for students and staff – and handed the contract to a travel company with links to a director at the school.

Oldknow Academy was among five Birmingham schools rated as inadequate and placed in special measures by Ofsted on Monday, amidst claims children were not being protected from extremism.

Leadership and governance was labelled inadequate at Oldknow, where young pupils had allegedly heard the phrase ‘white prostitute’ to describe Western women – and where the tombola was banned at a fete for being un-Islamic.

The Education Funding Agency (EFA) had raised financial concerns about two publicly-funded Muslim-only trips to Saudi Arabia in 2012 and 2013, the latter costing £47,200.

Now the Birmingham Mail can reveal the contract for last year’s visit was handed to a Birmingham travel company, which has links to a current teacher and former director at the 600-pupil Small Heath school.

The Agency investigation discovered the contract for the trips had never gone through a formal tender process.

The school had described the Saudi Arabia tours as ‘‘modern foreign languages trips’’ with the ‘‘double benefit’’ of allowing students to perform Umrah, a religious pilgrimage.

Last May 40 students and eight staff travelled to Mecca and Medinah. The ten-day visit involved stays at luxury five-star hotels.

The trip was booked and organised through Hilal Tours and Travel Ltd, based at St Agathas Road, Ward End. The travel company claims it has ‘many years of experience’ in organising the pilgrimages, although it was only registered with Companies House in 2012.

The firm is run by Umar Zaman, 38, who is listed as director at the company, whose website tells potential clients to send deposits of £500 to 149 Burlington Road, Erdington.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/trojan-horse-birmingham-academy-spent-7248217

Books 'promoting stoning' found at Olive Tree Primary School

A Muslim school found to have books suggesting stoning and lashing as appropriate punishments says it is the victim of "hostility".

Ofsted said some of the library books at Olive Tree Primary School in Luton contained fundamentalist views which had "no place in British society".

The education watchdog deemed Olive Tree Primary School in Bury Park Road "inadequate" following a visit in May.

Farasat Latif, chairman of governors, said he rejected Ofsted's findings.

Last month's inspection was abandoned when parents complained their children had been asked about homosexuality.

But Ofsted said it had already gained "sufficient evidence" to produce a report.

Inspectors said pupils' "contact with different cultures, faiths and traditions is too limited to promote tolerance and respect for the views, lifestyles and customs of other people".

Senior leaders do not ensure "balanced views of the world" and some books in the school promote stoning and lashing as appropriate punishments, the report added.

"There are too few books about the world's major religions other than Islam," it said.
Continue reading the main story
Titles found on the shelves
library shelf

Books available to children included The Ideal Muslim by Dr Muhammad Ali Al-Hashimi, which advocates parents hitting children if they do not pray by the age of 10, the report said.
Another, Commanders Of The Muslim Army by Mahmood Ahmad Ghadanfar, was said to praise individuals who "loved death more than life in their pursuit of righteous and true religion".

But Mr Latif said: "Ofsted came into the school looking for problems of extremism and intolerance and didn't find any.

"They carried out a half-baked inspection, which they abandoned half-way through.

"We are the victims of the extreme politics of Michael Gove whose ignorance of Islam is matched by his hostility. Many Muslims will feel alienated and victims of state Islamaphobia.

"We are a small school with 65 children and got 100 per cent on our SATS last year. We are involved with charities, like Dr Barnados which is not a Muslim charity."

He said the school was considering taking legal action against the report. They were waiting to hear if it is to be put into special measures.

Mr Latif said: "We have a large number of books about different faiths, which inspectors failed to to notice, including The Diary of Ann Frank."

The school must now act to meet key standards for independent schools.

These include ensuring the curriculum "better prepares [pupils] for living in modern Britain... in line with the laws of the land" and having library books with "balanced and tolerant views which reflect British democratic values".

The report's findings come on the same day the head of Ofsted Sir Michael Wilshaw delivered his findings on claims of hardline Muslim takeovers at Birmingham schools with five of the schools being placed in special measures.

Pupils as young as six were taught to treat Western women as 'white prostitutes' by a school at the centre of the 'Trojan Horse' Islamist plot.

The shocking disclosure comes ahead of two bombshell reports into claims Muslim radicals conspired to infiltrate governing bodies of Birmingham schools.

A leaked copy of one report says teachers at Oldknow Academy told school inspectors they were alarmed by the use of terms such as ‘white prostitute’ and ‘hellfire’ in school assemblies, and that non-Muslim teachers were banned from being present.

A report by the Education Funding Agency says: ‘We were told by teachers that non-Muslim teaching staff are no longer allowed to take Friday assemblies. In separate interviews, staff told us that in Friday assemblies, occasionally words have been used such as “white prostitute” and “hellfire” which they felt were inappropriate for young children.’

Well-placed sources have told The Mail on Sunday that the term ‘white prostitute’ was used to suggest to pupils that Muslim women were moral but non-Muslim women were not.

Oldknow Academy, which has around 600 pupils, is said to have been the subject of a gradual takeover by extremists, who allegedly pushed out head teacher, Bhupinder Kondal, because she opposed the ‘Islamisation’ of the school.

Officially, Mrs Kondal is on sick leave, and she refused to discuss the matter with The Mail on Sunday.

She was among four of the school’s six senior managers who have left in recent months.

It is also claimed that in one assembly, just before Christmas last year, a senior teacher led ‘an anti-Christian’ chant. He allegedly shouted at the pupils ‘Do we believe in Christmas?’, to which the pupils replied collectively ‘No we don’t.’
Head teacher Bhupinder Kondal opposed the 'Islamisation' of Oldknow Junior School
+3

Head teacher Bhupinder Kondal opposed the 'Islamisation' of Oldknow Junior School

The senior teacher is said to have made other ‘anti-Christian comments’ at the same assembly.

Officials from education watchdog Ofsted, who have also studied the ‘Trojan Horse’ claims, investigated the ‘anti-Christmas’ chant incident, but found no evidence of it.

However, a source said that teachers and pupils at Oldknow have referred to Christians as ‘kaffirs’, a derogatory Arabic term meaning infidels.

The source said that as part of the Islamic takeover, urinals from the boy’s toilets were removed, in accordance with Muslim custom which frowns on those who stand up to urinate.

More than 95 per cent of Oldknow’s pupils are Muslim. It holds Islamic prayers every Friday, teaches Arabic and organises trips to Mecca.

Last week, Oldknow teacher, Samir Rauf defended the school, accusing Ofsted inspectors of ‘having an agenda’. He said he had seen no evidence of an extremist takeover, and denied Christmas had been banned.

In February, a senior Oldknow teacher is said to have posted a message on social media urging all Muslims to disown those who gave up their faith.

He said: ‘Do not love the one who does not love Allah. If they can leave Allah, they will leave you.’

Only a year ago, an Ofsted inspection of Oldknow found it ‘outstanding’ in all areas, including in promoting multi-racial harmony.

It is one of 21 schools being probed for claims extremists tried to influence teaching.

Education Secretary Michael Gove is expected to put five schools into special measures when the reports are published tomorrow. He will make a Commons statement as head teachers hold a press conference in Birmingham to speak publicly for the first time.

The five schools include Oldknow, and secondary schools Park View and Golden Hillock. The running and teaching at all three have been described as ‘inadequate.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651700/Hellfire-Muslim-teachers-Trojan-Horse-school-warned-six-year-olds-white-prostitutes.html

Smelly will you get it in your head spassy has said this is a witchunt there isnt really a problem it just racist making it up.

If spassy says so and you know how honest she has been over the years its good enough for me.

Glad you are seeing sense at last and agreeing with the evidence instead of becoming hysterical, so much better for your blood pressure Drinky.

Now, instead of the hysteria, lets hear it from David Hughes, Vice Chair of Park View Educational Trust and Lee Donaghy, assistant principal, at Park View (my, what a couple of muslim names they are!)

Three schools that were investigated in the wake of the “Trojan Horse” allegations have been declared failing and have been placed in special measures, it has been confirmed.

Park View Educational Trust announced that its three schools - Park View Academy, Golden Hillock and Nansen Primary - have all been rated inadequate by Ofsted.

The Trust has robustly rejected the findings and in a statement, its vice-chair David Hughes insisted that the schools “do not tolerate or promote extremism”.

The Trust will be seeking to mount a legal challenge to the judgments, he added.

Here is the statement in full from Vice Chair of the Trust David Hughes: "I have been a governor at Park View school for 17 years and I’m immensely proud of what’s been achieved here and what’s been done, and very distressed about what happening to undo that work ...

"On behalf of staff, students and parents who have worked so hard improve their schools, we are extremely disappointed to confirm that Ofsted has graded Park View, Golden Hillocks and Nansen schools as inadequate and put them into special measures.

"We support the role of Ofsted in holding schools to account in a fair and transparent way, but we wholeheartedly dispute the validity of these gradings.

"Park View, Golden Hillocks and Nansen are categorically not inadequate schools."

Mr Hughes added: "Our Ofsted inspections were ordered in a climate of suspicion created by the hoax Trojan letter and by the anonymous, unproven allegations about our schools in the media. Ofsted inspectors came to our schools looking for extremism, looking for segregation, looking for proof that our children have religion forced upon them as part of an Islamic plot. The Ofsted reports find asbsolutely no evidence of this because this is categorically not what is happening at our schools.

"Our schools do not tolerate or promote extremism of any kind. We have made a major commitment to raising all students’ awareness of extremism. People who know and have worked with our schools are appalled at the way we have been misrepresented.

"Our schools serve some of the most disadvantaged communities in Britain. In spite of this, 75% of students at Park View achieved at least five good GCSEs last year, including in English and maths. This makes it the best school of its type in England. Golden Hillocks and Nansen are on course to get the best results ever. Quite simply, this is because we believe our role is to break the links between demographics, deprivation and destiny.

"We refuse to let our students’ backgrounds limit what they can achieve, and who they can become."

Mr Hughes concludes: "The speed and the ferocity with which Park View school in particular has been condemned is truly shocking. Park View school has helped transform the lives of local families by realising their hope and ambition for educational success. School communities at Park View, Golden Hillocks and Nansen that have worked hard to turn round failing schools are being condemned when they should be being celebrated.

"The problem here is not extremism or segregation or religious indoctrination, all the things that Ofsted looked for but failed to find in our schools. The problem here is the knee-jerk actions of some politicians that have undermined the great work that we do here and undermined community cohesion across Birmingham and across many of our cities.

"They have put Muslim children from these communities at substantial risk of not being accepted as equal, legitimate and valued members of British society, and they have allowed suspicion to be cast on the aspiration of their parents and anyone else who believes that these children deserve the same rights and excellent standard of education as any other child.

"And it is important you know we will now be challenging all these reports through the appropriate legal channels."


Lee Donaghy, assistant principal, at Park View, also condemned the Ofsted report.

Speaking outside the school he said the school was “part of the solution, not part of the problem”, describing it as “a beacon of hope against isolation, poverty, drugs, crime and – yes – potential extremism”.



Here is the full reaction from Lee Donaghy, assistant principal Park View School, which as been at the centre of some of the most serious allegations.

Offering a passionate response to the allegations, he said: "On behalf of the staff of Park View, I want to say first and foremost that we reject this Ofsted report. It is simply not true that the school does not do enough to protect our pupils from the risks of extremism.

"Every day, my colleagues and I work hard to ensure our pupils are disciplined, understand and respect difference and most of all achieve well, and in the process gain a full understanding of their religion - the surest guards against extremism of any kind.

"It is also simply not true that pupils at this school are isolated from British society. As our termly newsletters show, this school provides our pupils with opportunities to rival any state school in Birmingham, indeed in Britain.

"This is a normal state school, like thousands of others across Britain - 98% of our pupils just happen to be Muslims. British Muslims."


Mr Donaghy continues: ""I came into teaching through the Teach First programme in 2004 and came to Park View through the Future Leaders programme in 2010. As a young person from a working class family in an urban area of Merseyside, with no family history of higher education, a first-class education was transformational for my own life chances and gave me opportunities I would not otherwise have enjoyed.

"As such my career in teaching is driven by a determination to deliver the promise education holds to as many young people as possible. Put simply, my aim is to break the link between demographics and destiny for those pupils I serve. An aim enshrined in the mission of Park View Educational Trust and one shared - as he spoke about, with the very same words, on Saturday - by the Education Secretary.

"Despite being an agnostic this school closely reflects my values and the moral purpose that brought me into teaching, as it does those of my colleagues from all faith backgrounds and none."


Mr Donaghy concluded: "For the community in which you all now stand - as visitors covering a story - our school stands as a beacon of hope against a tide of isolation, poverty, drugs, crime and yes, potential extremism.

"Park View is part of the solution, not part of the problem. It is a beacon like no other in this area, a school which achieves what many thought impossible - poor, inner city, Muslim children achieving as well as any children, anywhere. And now that beacon risks being extinguished.

"We have nothing to hide. Talk to the parents, talk to our former pupils. They will tell you this is an outstanding school, with outstanding results, where pupils are taught right from wrong. They will tell you there is no segregation or extremism. And they will tell you that this is a rich, vibrant school that is part of its community. This school is part of Britain, and Britain is part of this school."

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/live-birminghams-trojan-horse-schools-7236952

BTW, you did know that no extremist plot was found, didn't you?

No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate puishments and its oks to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate puishments and its oks to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

Who on here said it's ok to teach kids stoning and lashing and to treat or view women as prostitutes?

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate punishments and its ok to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

So basically you hold to account all Christian and Jewish schools with that logic as well, based on the bible being taught to school children from teaching scripture, where to some Christians it is the word of God and taught as such and seen as divine law?
You do realise the bible advocates the same or similar sentences but with just different methods of execution?

So are you saying it is okay to teach scripture from one book, even if it has Herem, the genocide of peoples, that it is command to execute homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children etc etc., but the other should not, even though they both have barbaric punishments?

So do Christian schools condemn in their teachings these biblical commands do you know?

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate punishments and its ok to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

So basically you hold to account all Christian and Jewish schools with that logic as well, based on the bible being taught to school children from teaching scripture, where to some Christians it is the word of God and taught as such and seen as divine law?
You do realise the bible advocates the same or similar sentences but with just different methods of execution?

So are you saying it is okay to teach scripture from one book, even if it has Herem, the genocide of peoples, that it is command to execute homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children etc etc., but the other should not, even though they both have barbaric punishments?

So do Christian schools condemn in their teachings these biblical commands do you know?

Didge fuck off

Joy Division wrote:

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate puishments and its oks to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

Who on here said it's ok to teach kids stoning and lashing and to treat or view women as prostitutes?

Sassy did.

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:

So basically you hold to account all Christian and Jewish schools with that logic as well, based on the bible being taught to school children from teaching scripture, where to some Christians it is the word of God and taught as such and seen as divine law?
You do realise the bible advocates the same or similar sentences but with just different methods of execution?

So are you saying it is okay to teach scripture from one book, even if it has Herem, the genocide of peoples, that it is command to execute homosexuals, adulterers, disobedient children etc etc., but the other should not, even though they both have barbaric punishments?

So do Christian schools condemn in their teachings these biblical commands do you know?

Didge fuck off

How childish and pathetic.

The point is valid, no Christian School is going to teach the biblical laws are incorrect or wrong, they will teach them as scripture, whilst not in religious lessons teach morals and values. Gove decided to send a bible to every school to reinforce his belief the bible represents British Values.

Not sure I agree with his stance on the bible, as any religious book teaching scriptures will be the same, even more so in this country where in fact many wrongs this nation did was justified through passages in the bible.

You see I am all for doing away with all religious schools and that it should be taught as a subject in schools, as religiously controlled schools will teach a misleading belief that there is a deity and that this deity can order and commit the most unspeakable evils onto people. By this I mean the 3 Abrahamic faiths.

I have never been happy with religion in charge of schools, as religion should be a personal belief.

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

Didge fuck off

How childish and pathetic.

The point is valid, no Christian School is going to teach the biblical laws are incorrect or wrong, they will teach them as scripture, whilst not in religious lessons teach morals and values. Gove decided to send a bible to every school to reinforce his belief the bible represents British Values.

Not sure I agree with his stance on the bible, as any religious book teaching scriptures will be the same, even more so in this country where in fact many wrongs this nation did was justified through passages in the bible.

You see I am all for doing away with all religious schools and that it should be taught as a subject in schools, as religiously controlled schools will teach a misleading belief that there is a deity and that this deity can order and commit the most unspeakable evils onto people. By this I mean the 3 Abrahamic faiths.

I have never been happy with religion in charge of schools, as religion should be a personal belief.

Apologies Didge
Im just really not up for incomprehensible pedantic fuckwittery today

The Puzzler wrote:

Joy Division wrote:

Who on here said it's ok to teach kids stoning and lashing and to treat or view women as prostitutes?

Sassy did.

Where? Can't see it

Nems wrote:

Didge wrote:


How childish and pathetic.

The point is valid, no Christian School is going to teach the biblical laws are incorrect or wrong, they will teach them as scripture, whilst not in religious lessons teach morals and values. Gove decided to send a bible to every school to reinforce his belief the bible represents British Values.

Not sure I agree with his stance on the bible, as any religious book teaching scriptures will be the same, even more so in this country where in fact many wrongs this nation did was justified through passages in the bible.

You see I am all for doing away with all religious schools and that it should be taught as a subject in schools, as religiously controlled schools will teach a misleading belief that there is a deity and that this deity can order and commit the most unspeakable evils onto people. By this I mean the 3 Abrahamic faiths.

I have never been happy with religion in charge of schools, as religion should be a personal belief.

Apologies Didge
Im just really not up for incomprehensible pedantic fuckwittery today

No worries, people get heated, it happens to us all.

Again I against having any faith schools.

Anyway have to go, so hope you enjoy your day

Didge wrote:

Nems wrote:

Apologies Didge
Im just really not up for incomprehensible pedantic fuckwittery today

No worries, people get heated, it happens to us all.

Again I against having any faith schools.

Anyway have to go, so hope you enjoy your day  

Totally agree re faith schools
Have a good day

Joy Division wrote:

The Puzzler wrote:
Sassy did.

Where? Can't see it

Well, she seems to think it's ' naked discrimination' to object to such 'conservative(now there's sugarcoating for you) teachings and brand them as extremism. Apparently unless they're teaching ways to blow up the infidel then they can crack right on with their violently misogynistic indoctrination, and it's islamophobic to object.

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate puishments and its oks to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

Except they didn't and the report said no such thing.

Read the facts rather than listening to hype.

The Puzzler wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



Where? Can't see it

Well, she seems to think it's ' naked discrimination' to object to such 'conservative(now there's sugarcoating for you) teachings and brand them as extremism. Apparently unless they're teaching ways to blow up the infidel then they can crack right on with their violently misogynistic indoctrination, and it's islamophobic to object.

Which has been utterly refuted by those above in charge of the schools (and not muslim) and they are going to take Ofsted to court over the downgrading.

Sassy wrote:

Nems wrote:No extremist plot?!
Teaching kids that stoning and lashing are appropriate puishments and its oks to view white women as prostitutes and hitting children for not praying is a good thing sounds extreme enough to me.
Thats before we even look at fraud over kickbacks for using that travel company.

Except they didn't and the report said no such thing.

Read the facts rather than listening to hype.  

Do not tell me what to do or think - thank you

Nems wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Except they didn't and the report said no such thing.

Read the facts rather than listening to hype.  

Do not tell me what to do or think - thank you

  

You don't quite know how debate works do you? The facts are different to the hype, if you scream about the hype without looking at the facts, someone is going to point it out. Get used to it.

The Puzzler wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



Where? Can't see it

Well, she seems to think it's ' naked discrimination' to object to such 'conservative(now there's sugarcoating for you) teachings and brand them as extremism. Apparently unless they're teaching ways to blow up the infidel then they can crack right on with their violently misogynistic indoctrination, and it's islamophobic to object.

Hey Puzz, that's not really what she's saying though is it?  

I've never known Sassy to support horrible things like stoning to death , oppression etc...


It's just that people hear something to about one Muslim and believe it about them all...

Of course (and I don't know the figures here) there are ' bad Muslims' at least those who class themselves as Muslim and will kill under the banner of it,,,

But I've always said it ...most Muslims are not bad and just want peace....


And yes there is severe brainwashing going on in various Muslim countries , but what we will never know is from all those people , how many don't want to be part of this but are forced to and fear for their lives if they are not seen to support barbaric laws?

I think that's about the size of it Puz, and yes, there will be those who relish in being wicked bastards, but I just can't imagine that is what most people would actually want...

So again...it comes down very much in part to oppression.,,being told what to think , eat and say....


It's horrible knowing so many don't want to be part if that but have no choice

I am sorry to disagree with you sassy, but my earlier posts on this matter reported that a young girl, my neighbours Daughter, who attends one of the schools mentioned, confirmed that a lot of it is true!!

Sassy wrote:

Nems wrote:

Do not tell me what to do or think - thank you

  

You don't quite know how debate works do you?   The facts are different to the hype, if you scream about the hype without looking at the facts, someone is going to point it out.   Get used to it.

Get used to your when Im right Im right and when Im wrong Im right attitude you mean?
Tell you what dear if debate is passing comment on people wives and saying they shag around you can keep it.You haven't half got delusions you know ! You think endlessly cutting and pasting makes you clever, it doesnt. You think your condescending nastiness makes you appear clever, it doesnt.

Oh, you mean like you maligning the McCanns even when the evidence shows you are wrong.

   

I'll be very interested to watch what happens when the School takes legal action.

After all, so many people believed it was the fans fault at Hillsborough because of misrepresentation by authority, and they couldn't ever lie could they.

Sassy wrote:Oh, you mean like you maligning the McCanns even when the evidence shows you are wrong.

   

I'll be very interested to watch what happens when the School takes legal action.  

After all, so many people believed it was the fans fault at Hillsborough because of misrepresentation by authority, and they couldn't ever lie could they.

If that's aimed at me its better to quote for clarity.
This is not about the McCanns,I have never seen one bit of evidence that changes my opinion on that pair.
Why do you think the Ofsted Inspectors have lied? Why do you think Gove called them in when he had nothing to gain as independent schools are his baby.
Hillsborough? Interesting comparison. A widespread systematic cover up up facilitated by people very happy to believe what they are told by authority.
The radicalising of our schools a widespread and sytematic effort to churn out out people who hate us and our culture facilitated by those who are very happy to believe what they are told by authority eg there is no problem with Islam in Britain. Mmm OK I can see that.

Interesting article which goes into the points I was making:



Taxpayers' cash should not be used to fund faith schools, say voters

The survey by Opinium shows that 58% of voters now believe faith schools, which can give priority to applications from pupils of their faith and are free to teach only about their own religion, should not be funded by the state or should be abolished.

Of those with concerns, 70% said the taxpayer should not be funding the promotion of religion in schools, 60% said such schools promoted division and segregation, and 41% said they were contrary to the promotion of a multicultural society. Fewer than one in three (30%) said they had no objections to faith schools being funded by the state.

 http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/14/taxpayers-should-not-fund-faith-schoolsthe public urge abolition or axing of state funds[



The points that were of interest to me were the following:



The survey by Opinium shows that 58% of voters now believe faith schools, which can give priority to applications from pupils of their faith and are free to teach only about their own religion, should not be funded by the state or should be abolished.

Of those with concerns, 70% said the taxpayer should not be funding the promotion of religion in schools, 60% said such schools promoted division and segregation, and 41% said they were contrary to the promotion of a multicultural society. Fewer than one in three (30%) said they had no objections to faith schools being funded by the state.






Opinium found that 75% of the public believed there was a serious risk pupils could be encouraged to adopt extremist views in predominantly Muslim schools. A majority – 56% – thought all faith schools should have to teach the national curriculum rather than being free to teach only about their own religion.
There are currently 6,844 state faith schools – a few more than in early 2010, before the coalition government came to office, when there were 6,832. Of these, 4,601 are Church of England, 1,986 Roman Catholic, 26 Methodist, 152 of other Christian faiths, 48 Jewish, 18 Muslim and eight Sikh; and 763 of these faith schools are academies or free schools.


I very much agree with these views:




But Rabbi Jonathan Romain, chair of the Accord Coalition (which campaigns for inclusive education), said faith schools could be "divisive" and risked fostering "educational apartheid" where children of different faiths were ostensibly "ghettoised". He said: "They can limit the horizons of the children by focusing on faith to the exclusion of other areas; schools should be about education, not indoctrination."

Romain, minister of Maidenhead synagogue, added: "It's a discrimination not tolerated in any other area of the public sector, yet we legally allow it in schools."

The schools in question were not faith schools.



They just had majority Muslim pupils and staff.



Maybe Ofsted should have criticised them for being excessively multicultural and insufficiently indigenous white British......



This is another labour legacy....




All schools should teach the national curriculum.



If you want to learn about a faith then go to that faiths place of worship.

The head of one the Birmingham schools at the centre of the 'Trojan Horse' controversy has revealed that parents of Pakistani origin wanted her to "get rid of the white kids" at her school.

Sarah Hewitt-Clarkson, head teacher at Anderton Park Primary School, told the Sunday Times that when a small number of white children arrived at her school, which was predominantly Muslim, parents started making a series of racist demands:

"We had kids saying 'What are you playing with the white kid for? What are you playing with the Christians for?' The dad of one of the Pakistani heritage pupils at the school even told me I should 'get rid of the white kids'.

"He said, 'If I was head I would get the white kids and shove them in the corner with white desks and a white teacher and keep them away from the rest of the kids. I told him that what he had said was racist and I was going to write it down. Then he said, 'You should get rid of the white kids, that is what the community would want you to do.'"

She later reported the parent to the police.

The 'Trojan Horse' scandal erupted earlier this year following a series of revelations over hard line Islamist governors trying to force secular schools to adopt strict Islamic practices.

The revelation comes as Prime Minister David Cameron called for every school child to be taught the "British values" enshrined in Magna Carta. Mr Cameron said children from all backgrounds should learn about the document, which is widely credited with paving the way for parliamentary democracy and rule of law.

The Prime Minister wants to mark next year's 800th anniversary of the signing of the document with celebrations across the country. I want to use this anniversary as an opportunity for every child to learn about the Magna Carta, for towns to commemorate it, for events to celebrate it,” he said.

Magna Carta was forced on King John on 1215 following a revolt by his nobility. John had tried to rule as a despotic, absolute ruler, but his barons humiliated him and forced him to sign the document which limited his power.

David Cameron said: "It’s a great document in our history — what my favourite book, Our Island Story, describes as the ‘foundation of all our laws and liberties’. In sealing it, King John had to accept his subjects were citizens — for the first time giving them rights, protections and security"

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/06/15/Get-Rid-of-the-White-Kids-Say-Pakistani-Parents

Get rid of the white kids!!!



I think we know who the real racists are.....