Faith-healing couple's beliefs to be heard in trial over manslaughter death of their daughter

by Ben Reilly Sat May 31, 2014 8:43 pm

A judge has rejected the request of an Oregon couple — accused of manslaughter in the death their 12-year-old daughter — to have their faith-healing beliefs excluded from the trial.

Judge Daniel Murphy ruled that the beliefs of Travis and Wenona Rossiter constitute motive evidence, and that absent such evidence, their actions would appear “wanton and grossly reckless” in a manner that would prejudice the jury.

“The court cannot find that evidence of a religious motive is more prejudicial in this case than the absence of such evidence,” Murphy wrote.

The Rossiters are members of the Church of the First Born, a fundamentalist Christian organization that believes that modern medicine is sinful, and teaches members that God will heal the worthy through the power of their faith.

Their daughter, Syble Rossiter, died in February 2013 from complications of her untreated diabetes.

At a preliminary hearing, the couple’s attorney, Tim Felling, argued that the Church of the First Born’s beliefs were both irrelevant and prejudicial, and insisted that his clients be “tried for the actions of that day, not for [their] religious beliefs.”

Earlier this year, a Pennsylvania couple whose refusal to seek medical attention for their 7-month-old son led to the boy’s death was sentenced to three-and-a-half to seven years on third-degree murder charges.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/30/judge-jury-will-hear-about-oregon-couples-faith-healing-beliefs-in-trial-over-dead-child/

How can people commit such barbaric acts in the name of Christ?

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 8:55 pm

fry em.....

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 8:55 pm

get rid of the "stupid gene"

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 10:15 pm

They should have let the child have medical treatment because what they did was very wrong , even their belief is confusing because God doesn't see anyone unworthy and so by believing only those worthy get healed is wrong teaching .

There are Christian doctors surgeons who are gifted and should be trusted to care people .

I wouldn't say this couple intended to let their child die on purpose they were very misguided in what to believe .

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 10:18 pm

no they were stoooopid

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 10:19 pm

criminally and negligently stupid at that....fry em

by Ben Reilly Sat May 31, 2014 10:31 pm

They're very stupid and naive, I'm sorry they lost their daughter over it and I hope their eyes have been opened.

It reminds me of an old joke/parable:

It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

by Guest Sat May 31, 2014 10:33 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:They're very stupid and naive, I'm sorry they lost their daughter over it and I hope their eyes have been opened.

I wouldnt hold your breath Ben.....you do realise that its "god's will"

It reminds me of an old joke/parable:

It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

by SEXY MAMA Sat May 31, 2014 11:44 pm

They take the 'will of God ' part very literally.

I feel angry and sorry for them at the same time!!!

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:08 am

the will of God is for everyone nobody earns it .

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:10 am

SEXY MAMA wrote:They take the 'will of God ' part very literally.

I feel angry and sorry for them at the same time!!!

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:47 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:They take the 'will of God ' part very literally.

I feel angry and sorry for them at the same time!!!

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

You dirty bastard, bullying Islamic women again ,you stinking weirdo, stop talking about kids like that ffs,wtf is wrong with you ?

by veya_victaous Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:53 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:They take the 'will of God ' part very literally.

I feel angry and sorry for them at the same time!!!

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

that is very rare and mainly from North Africa, it does not say it anywhere in the Koran it is more of a cultural thing than religious

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:43 am

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

that is very rare and mainly from North Africa, it does not say it anywhere in the Koran it is more of a cultural thing than religious

it isn't rare in Britain there are surgeons doing this and most little girls get taken out of the country to get it done during the summer holidays .

It does say to do it in the koran

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r74dvMkNjqE

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:46 am

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

that is very rare and mainly from North Africa, it does not say it anywhere in the Koran it is more of a cultural thing than religious

it isn't rare in Britain there are surgeons doing this and most little girls get taken out of the country to get it done during the summer holidays .

It does say to do it in the koran

Surgeons are doing this in Britain? They would be struck off for that surely, and probably prosecuted. If there's a possibility that a child is going to be removed from the country for that purpose, the authorities should take the child into care before that happens.

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:50 am

I don't get why this couple don't want their religious beliefs mentioned at the trial. Surely their defence is that their intentions were not malicious. How can that evidence be "irrelevant"?

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:58 am

Anyway, I can't find much information on this. How long had the girl had type I diabetes? Did the couple know that she had it, and did they know that she could die if she wasn't treated? If they did know, how did they know if they didn't believe in medicine? Did they go to the doctor?

It seems that it hasn't been established if they refused medical intervention on religious grounds.

by The Silence Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:06 am

The child died due to the beliefs of the parents, of course it's a part of the trial.

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:11 am

The Silence wrote:The child died due to the beliefs of the parents, of course it's a part of the trial.

Well that's the claim certainly, but the couple want the events of that particular day to be heard rather than their religious beliefs, so I'm wondering if that's true.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:11 am

There's also some evidence that the church manipulates its congregants into doing things like this:

While church officials have been known to say that members are free to seek medical aid, former members report that those who do so are considered ‘weak in faith’ ( and are said to have sinned against God by demonstrating a lack of faith), and subsequently tend to be shunned.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/27508/faith-healing-manslaughter-charges-religion-wealthy

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:12 am

Also, the child died of diabetes, not religious beliefs. I'm not saying I approve of people ignoring diabetes, but they didn't give their child diabetes.

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:13 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:There's also some evidence that the church manipulates its congregants into doing things like this:

While church officials have been known to say that members are free to seek medical aid, former members report that those who do so are considered ‘weak in faith’ ( and are said to have sinned against God by demonstrating a lack of faith), and subsequently tend to be shunned.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/27508/faith-healing-manslaughter-charges-religion-wealthy

Well that's why I'm wondering if they were aware that she had diabetes at all.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:14 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:There's also some evidence that the church manipulates its congregants into doing things like this:

While church officials have been known to say that members are free to seek medical aid, former members report that those who do so are considered ‘weak in faith’ ( and are said to have sinned against God by demonstrating a lack of faith), and subsequently tend to be shunned.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/27508/faith-healing-manslaughter-charges-religion-wealthy

Well that's why I'm wondering if they were aware that she had diabetes at all.

Or at the least, in denial about the severity of her situation, perhaps.

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:17 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:There's also some evidence that the church manipulates its congregants into doing things like this:

While church officials have been known to say that members are free to seek medical aid, former members report that those who do so are considered ‘weak in faith’ ( and are said to have sinned against God by demonstrating a lack of faith), and subsequently tend to be shunned.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/27508/faith-healing-manslaughter-charges-religion-wealthy

that's wrong teaching for sure, my niece is diabetic and sceliac and needs medication for both , thank God there is medication to help her lead a normal life .
I don't see it as lack of faith i see it as taking a gift to help people , i wonder if the people in that church realize that Luke was a physician , maybe not to todays standards but still he was .

by Raggamuffin Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:18 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well that's why I'm wondering if they were aware that she had diabetes at all.

Or at the least, in denial about the severity of her situation, perhaps.

Possibly. I'd like to know more details really, but there aren't any available that I can find.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:46 am

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:There's also some evidence that the church manipulates its congregants into doing things like this:

While church officials have been known to say that members are free to seek medical aid, former members report that those who do so are considered ‘weak in faith’ ( and are said to have sinned against God by demonstrating a lack of faith), and subsequently tend to be shunned.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/27508/faith-healing-manslaughter-charges-religion-wealthy

that's wrong teaching for sure, my niece is diabetic and sceliac and needs medication for both , thank God there is medication to help her lead a normal life .
I don't see it as lack of faith i see it as taking a gift to help people , i wonder if the people in that church realize that Luke was a physician , maybe not to todays standards but still he was .

All the Christians I grew up with tended to see things like medicine and technology as God's gifts to humanity; the church this couple goes to is just weird.

by SEXY MAMA Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:38 am

veya_victaous wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

that is very rare and mainly from North Africa, it does not say it anywhere in the Koran it is more of a cultural thing than religious

No it doesnt say anything in the Quran about it. The prophet didn't have his daughters done and was strictly against such things.

Illiterate posters are arguing it commands it in the Quran how strange!

by SEXY MAMA Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:39 am

Joy Division wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

You dirty bastard, bullying Islamic women again ,you stinking weirdo, stop talking about kids like that ffs,wtf is wrong with you ?

He is a disgusting pervert.

Best ignored

by SEXY MAMA Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:42 am

These 2 posters complain to admin about everything yet they write such nasty stuff to posters.

Tut tut tut

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:01 am

Joy Division wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

yeah it so much nicer to cut your daughters clitoris off, when will your little girl be cut...

You dirty bastard, bullying Islamic women again ,you stinking weirdo, stop talking about kids like that ffs,wtf is wrong with you ?

You have the problem you are always talking about rape get a grip man .

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:03 am

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

You dirty bastard, bullying Islamic women again ,you stinking weirdo, stop talking about kids like that ffs,wtf is wrong with you ?

He is a disgusting pervert.

Best ignored

Your quite right SM, after the vile stuff they wrote about my wee lad( who is autistic btw, not Down syndrome like they make out, I don't think they even know the difference) their not worth shit...picking in kids.

I'm done with them lowlifes , and then to write that disgusting part perverted part about your wee girl...

They can take a hike, creeps.

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:04 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

that's wrong teaching for sure, my niece is diabetic and sceliac and needs medication for both , thank God there is medication to help her lead a normal life .
I don't see it as lack of faith i see it as taking a gift to help people , i wonder if the people in that church realize that Luke was a physician , maybe not to todays standards but still he was .

All the Christians I grew up with tended to see things like medicine and technology as God's gifts to humanity; the church this couple goes to is just weird.

I agree the church i go to the Pastor is a GP and we all ask him about our ailments bless him . No problem with medicines but i do think some are questionable ,other than that the meidical profession are valuable and what would we do with them .

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:07 am

Joy Division wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

He is a disgusting pervert.

Best ignored

Your quite right SM, after the vile stuff they wrote about my wee lad( who is autistic btw, not Down syndrome like they make out, I don't think they even know the difference) their not worth shit...picking in kids.

I'm done with them lowlifes , and then to write that disgusting part perverted part about your wee girl...

They can take a hike, creeps.

JD you deserve to have stuff said back if you don't like it don't give it out it is that simple. You are latching on to bigmama because she needs support from anyone pity she stoops so low to rely on you , you say the worse perverted things on here so how she can call my husband a pervert just shows she is silly and grasping at anything to agree with you . Poor souls Laughing

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:19 am

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

Your quite right SM, after the vile stuff they wrote about my wee lad( who is autistic btw, not Down syndrome like they make out, I don't think they even know the difference) their not worth shit...picking in kids.

I'm done with them lowlifes , and then to write that disgusting part perverted part about your wee girl...

They can take a hike, creeps.

JD you deserve to have stuff said back if you don't like it don't give it out it is that simple. You are latching on to bigmama because she needs support from anyone pity she stoops so low to rely on you , you say the worse perverted things on here so how she can call my husband a pervert just shows she is silly and grasping at anything to agree with you . Poor souls

Look ,your the one who mocks disabled children, hounds SM whenever she is online, you and your thing are both racist as hell...

And you know , the way your husband spoke of a little girls genitalia is very disturbing...why does he feel the need to speak of little girls like that VOD?...

Actually don't bother, I don't want to know.

The pair of you are vile and are forum rejects.

The only people who want to know you re those like you or those who have issues with me..

I can easily tan the pair of you , but the both of you are so low, that you bring children's into your vile insults.

Just go away VOD, even I'm disgusted with you.

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:26 am

An the Oscar goes to....
JD of course, a truly great display of the gamut of faux emotions there

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:27 am

Joy Division wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

JD you deserve to have stuff said back if you don't like it don't give it out it is that simple. You are latching on to bigmama because she needs support from anyone pity she stoops so low to rely on you , you say the worse perverted things on here so how she can call my husband a pervert just shows she is silly and grasping at anything to agree with you . Poor souls

Look ,your the one who mocks disabled children, hounds SM whenever she is online, you and your thing are both racist as hell...

And you know , the way your husband spoke of a little girls genitalia is very disturbing...why does he feel the need to speak of little girls like that VOD?...

Actually don't bother, I don't want to know.

bullshit and you know it , you said vile stuff to me pushed me too far and i hit where it hurt . Now as for female genital mutilation you also know that is wrong or maybe you like the thought of that too along with raping cats and men. I took the argument to pm last night you replied with vile comments so i gave you some back , yep it was about your kid hey ho ! if you push people too far they will hit where it hurts , if you had been in front of me you would have had a swift kick in your bollocks and you wouldn't be making anymore kids that's for sure neither would you be raping cats .
You posted my pm because you want it to bring sympathy you are using you kids condition to bring you sympathy , that's very low JD but you need a lot of attention everyone can see that , why else would you constantly talk of raping cats and threats of raping BigAndy Stooo. You don't fool me and there are others here that won't be fooled by you either . Joy Division ::attn::

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:28 am

Nems wrote:An the Oscar goes to....
JD of course, a truly great display of the gamut of faux emotions there

Comfort your bezzy.

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:29 am

Nems wrote:An the Oscar goes to....
JD of course, a truly great display of the gamut of faux emotions there

he certainly is good at trying the sympathy card, notice how he is now trying to say my husband is a pervert because he mentioned fgm , JD is a complete pervert twisting words .

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:31 am

Joy Division wrote:
Nems wrote:An the Oscar goes to....
JD of course, a truly great display of the gamut of faux emotions there

Comfort your bezzy.

you jealous because you have no fwends

by Tommy Monk Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:29 pm

Of course the girl should have had medical treatment.

If people believe in faith healing or what ever else, Chinese medicine etc, then fair enough, but should be used as well as proper medical treatment, not instead of.

I know a girl who's father died after being run over because they were Jehovah's witnesses and wouldn't allow blood transfusion.

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Of course the girl should have had medical treatment.

If people believe in faith healing or what ever else, Chinese medicine etc, then fair enough, but should be used as well as proper medical treatment, not instead of.

I know a girl who's father died after being run over because they were Jehovah's witnesses and wouldn't allow blood transfusion.

agree with that , the jw blood issue is taken well out of context , my hubby knows more on that though .

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:26 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, I can't find much information on this. How long had the girl had type I diabetes? Did the couple know that she had it, and did they know that she could die if she wasn't treated? If they did know, how did they know if they didn't believe in medicine? Did they go to the doctor?

It seems that it hasn't been established if they refused medical intervention on religious grounds.

The JW's don't believe in blood transfusions so i wonder how many parents have been prosecuted for denying transfusions ?

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:32 pm

Vicar of Dibley wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, I can't find much information on this. How long had the girl had type I diabetes? Did the couple know that she had it, and did they know that she could die if she wasn't treated? If they did know, how did they know if they didn't believe in medicine? Did they go to the doctor?

It seems that it hasn't been established if they refused medical intervention on religious grounds.

The JW's don't believe in blood transfusions so i wonder how many parents have been prosecuted for denying transfusions ?

I did read a story once, a couple refused a blood transfusion for their baby because they were JW, they actually got a court order to give the child a transfusion and the JW members wanted the couple to steal their own child away and make a run for it rather than take the transfusion, the couple refused to break the law, the child had the transfusion but the couple were disfellowshipped for allowing their baby to have the transfusion...

by eddie Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:52 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Vicar of Dibley wrote:

The JW's don't believe in blood transfusions so i wonder how many parents have been prosecuted for denying transfusions ?

I did read a story once, a couple refused a blood transfusion for their baby because they were JW, they actually got a court order to give the child a transfusion and the JW members wanted the couple to steal their own child away and make a run for it rather than take the transfusion, the couple refused to break the law, the child had the transfusion but the couple were disfellowshipped for allowing their baby to have the transfusion...

When I was pregnant with Jasmine, I got chatting to a midwife who told me about this time a JW woman was dying in childbirth (I forget the medical issue now) and her husband, a devout JW and her doctors were begging her to have blood. She had already given birth to her child and they were begging for the sake of the child.
They even called in the big man in charge of their "church" and he came and said a prayer over her and told her she was given permission by him and her religion to have the blood.
She still refused.

She died, with her husband and JW elder begging her not to.

Some people are just pig fucking ignorant.

What idiot thinks that their God gave them life so that they could throw it away on a fucking whim????

Makes me furious!

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:54 pm

FRY em

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:02 pm

eddie wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

I did read a story once, a couple refused a blood transfusion for their baby because they were JW, they actually got a court order to give the child a transfusion and the JW members wanted the couple to steal their own child away and make a run for it rather than take the transfusion, the couple refused to break the law, the child had the transfusion but the couple were disfellowshipped for allowing their baby to have the transfusion...

When I was pregnant with Jasmine, I got chatting to a midwife who told me about this time a JW woman was dying in childbirth (I forget the medical issue now) and her husband, a devout JW and her doctors were begging her to have blood. She had already given birth to her child and they were begging for the sake of the child.
They even called in the big man in charge of their "church" and he came and said a prayer over her and told her she was given permission by him and her religion to have the blood.
She still refused.

She died, with her husband and JW elder begging her not to.

Some people are just pig fucking ignorant.

What idiot thinks that their God gave them life so that they could throw it away on a fucking whim????

Makes me furious!

they actually base it, they being the JW's , on one piece of scripture in Leviticus and the scripture they base it on is on about sacrifices to God and has nothing to do with transfusions at all, it actually mentions eating blood, when they give you a transfusion you don't normally eat the bloody stuff...lol

by eddie Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:05 pm

It's a stupid piece of their religion HF! I won't mock it all as I don't know enough and there are some ok parts (as there are in all religions) but the fact they can let their own die is beyond belief!!

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:15 pm

eddie wrote:It's a stupid piece of their religion HF! I won't mock it all as I don't know enough and there are some ok parts (as there are in all religions) but the fact they can let their own die is beyond belief!!

A great deal of what they believe to be true and force on their followers has caused pain and death over the years, it is stupid the blood issue is just one thing they have done that is completely scripturally unsound yet they force it as if God commands it, crazy but they have their followers so brainwashed they do not challenge anything..

by eddie Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:23 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
eddie wrote:It's a stupid piece of their religion HF! I won't mock it all as I don't know enough and there are some ok parts (as there are in all religions) but the fact they can let their own die is beyond belief!!

A great deal of what they believe to be true and force on their followers has caused pain and death over the years, it is stupid the blood issue is just one thing they have done that is completely scripturally unsound yet they force it as if God commands it, crazy but they have their followers so brainwashed they do not challenge anything..

Have you ever been pounced on by them?
They are polite but very insistent!

by Guest Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:27 pm

I dont believe I have ever been "pounced on" by them... affraid

and I usually find I can entertain them for a while by introducing them to MY beliefs, and by pointing out to them the flaws in their "holy book"..... Evil or Very Mad

by Sponsored content