Are you for Creation or Evolution?

by stardesk Thu May 22, 2014 9:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ladies and Gentlemen, are you somewhere betwixt and between creation and evolution? Are you unsure of which direction to go? Then if you can get it, read the book pictured below. I've studied evolution for a long time, have read mountains of papers, mags and books, but this one, 'Why Evolution is True,' by Prof Jerry Coyne, is the best I've ever read. It is easy reading, especially for the layman, and not full of technical jargon a lot of people wouldn't understand. Honestly, I recommend it to all and everyone, even Creationists, for it may help them to ditch their belief in another mythical being.

Are you for Creation or Evolution? - Page 2 Img11310

Are you for Creation or Evolution? - Page 2 Img11310

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:35 am

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol.. the fossil record is woefully lacking and unable to prove anything, why do you think they came up with punctuated equilibrium to fill in the huge gaps and cover up the rubbish, do you actually know anything about evolution or do you just accept anything that doesn't mean believing in God...

You claim it is lacking and yet still defend your stance based upon fiction, that is what is comical, you have no evidence for God, except a book written by men and you bemoan evolution, it has to be the silliest argument you will find

Of course i have evidence of God...lol just not evidence you would consider ...

Again how did things exist before science decided they did? that one always baffles me .. Smile

I would still love to see a list of these mutations that would have caused the change from one species to another, the only one i ever recall being offered was lactose intolerance, well what can you say... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:37 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:

You claim it is lacking and yet still defend your stance based upon fiction, that is what is comical, you have no evidence for God, except a book written by men and you bemoan evolution, it has to be the silliest argument you will find

Of course i have evidence of God...lol just not evidence you would consider ...

Again how did things exist before science decided they did? that one always baffles me ..

I would still love to see a list of these mutations that would have caused the change from one species to another, the only one i ever recall being offered was lactose intolerance, well what can you say...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

You have evidence of God, from a book nothing more, so you base this as sound compared to scientific studies on evolution?

PMSL

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:40 am

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Of course i have evidence of God...lol just not evidence you would consider ...

Again how did things exist before science decided they did? that one always baffles me ..

I would still love to see a list of these mutations that would have caused the change from one species to another, the only one i ever recall being offered was lactose intolerance, well what can you say...

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

You have evidence of God, from a book nothing more, so you base this as sound compared to scientific studies on evolution?

PMSL

lol listen to yourself, you decry the bible as just a book taken on faith... Smile

but you defend as fact something you have simply read and trusted what men have told you is fact, with no way to test it for yourself... Smile

oh the irony of it all..... Smile

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:41 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

You have evidence of God, from a book nothing more, so you base this as sound compared to scientific studies on evolution?

PMSL

lol listen to yourself, you decry the bible as just a book taken on faith...

but you defend as fact something you have simply read and trusted what men have told you is fact, with no way to test it for yourself...

oh the irony of it all.....

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

Yes I defend scientific testing over blind faith in a book, which is what you do, which is hilarious, hence why your arguments backing creationism are comical, all you have is a book which it has been proven has been written by men over a long period of time, a book that is used to control weak minded people

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:48 am

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

lol listen to yourself, you decry the bible as just a book taken on faith...

but you defend as fact something you have simply read and trusted what men have told you is fact, with no way to test it for yourself...

oh the irony of it all.....

://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/: ://?roflmao?/:

Yes I defend scientific testing over blind faith in a book, which is what you do, whoich is hilarious, hence why your arguments backing creationism are comical, all you have is a book which it has been proven has been written by men over a long period of time, a book that is used to control weak minded people

lol but what you seem to have missed, so i better tell you, all you have done is decided which book you want to believe, now why that is i have my own theories but that is quite simply all you have done, you have decided what you want to believe is man's version of what happened to create mankind...

I have decided to believe what the bible tells me about the creation of all things...

your books were definitely just written by men...that is a fact...

I claim my book is God given, the fact the bible claims things that would have been beyond the comprehension of the people of that time brings me to that conclusion but that's my decision.. Smile

so you have chosen the religion of evolution written by man... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:52 am

No I do not believe in any book but research matters on evolution, you though take blind faith in a book that corrupts weak minded individuals who as seen cannot think for themselves and offer no evidence of the existence of a God let alone any evidence to back the view of a creator god, except fairy tale stories.

Evolution is not a religion, for you to think it is shows how incredibly stupid you really are.

The fact that many Christians also believe in evolution, the intelligent ones, leaves you in a pickle

Now where is your evidence for the mythical God you believe in?

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:57 am

Didge wrote:No I do not believe in any book but research matter son evolution, you though take blind faith in a book that corrupts weak minded individuals who as seen cannot think for themselves and offer no evidence of the existence of a God let alone any evidence to back the view of a creator god, except fairy tale stories.

Evolution is not a religion, for you to think it is shows how incredibly stupid you really are.

Now where is your evidence for the mythical God you believe in?

yes you do simply blindly follow evolution, you accept the research of so called scientists, you accept their findings, you accept their research methods, you accept their conclusions, you have just chosen to accept them as true...
again are they written by men, absolutely, are they infallible, absolutely not, how can we know that, well the facts change, so they cannot be infallible....

your religion based on your faith is evolution.... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 9:59 am

So no evidence for the mythical deity you believe in just more bollocks proving you are a complete ignoramus.

So again evidence for your deity?

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:04 am

Didge wrote:So no evidence for the mythical deity you believe in just more bollocks proving you are a complete ignoramus.

So again evidence for your deity?

thank goodness you finally realise you have accepted mans religion of evolution... Smile

my evidence, no probs, I have seen lives turned round by the belief in God, I hve seen alcoholics and druggies reclaim their lives just because they came to believe in God..

I have seen people healed in their bodies just because they believed on the healing power of God, i have seen people full of hate and violence, change to peace and love just because they dared to believe there is a God... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:07 am

Evolution is not a religion, it is not worshipped as you do a deity.

So again you avoid presenting evidence, where is the evidence for the existence of your mythical deity?

Here is my evidence:

Misconceptions about evolutionary theory and processes

Evolution is a theory about the origin of life.
Evolutionary theory implies that life evolved (and continues to evolve) randomly, or by chance.
Evolution results in progress; organisms are always getting better through evolution.
Individual organisms can evolve during a single lifespan.
Evolution only occurs slowly and gradually.
Because evolution is slow, humans cannot influence it.
Genetic drift only occurs in small populations.
Humans are not currently evolving.
Species are distinct natural entities, with a clear definition, that can be easily recognized by anyone.

Misconceptions about natural selection and adaptation

Natural selection involves organisms trying to adapt.
Natural selection gives organisms what they need.
Humans can't negatively impact ecosystems, because species will just evolve what they need to survive.
Natural selection acts for the good of the species.
The fittest organisms in a population are those that are strongest, healthiest, fastest, and/or largest.
Natural selection is about survival of the very fittest individuals in a population.
Natural selection produces organisms perfectly suited to their environments.
All traits of organisms are adaptations.

Misconceptions about evolutionary trees

Taxa that are adjacent on the tips of phylogeny are more closely related to one another than they are to taxa on more distant tips of the phylogeny.
Taxa that appear near the top or right-hand side of a phylogeny are more advanced than other organisms on the tree.
Taxa that are nearer the bottom or left-hand side of a phylogeny represent the ancestors of the other organisms on the tree.
Taxa that are nearer the bottom or left-hand side of a phylogeny evolved earlier than other taxa on the tree.
A long branch on a phylogeny indicates that the taxon has changed little since it diverged from other taxa.

Misconceptions about population genetics

Each trait is influenced by one Mendelian locus.
Each locus has only two alleles.

Misconceptions about evolution and the nature of science

Evolution is not science because it is not observable or testable.
Evolution is ‘just' a theory.
Evolutionary theory is invalid because it is incomplete and cannot give a total explanation for the biodiversity we see around us.
Gaps in the fossil record disprove evolution.

Misconceptions about the acceptance of evolution

The theory of evolution is flawed, but scientists won't admit it.
Evolution is a theory in crisis and is collapsing as scientists lose confidence in it.
Most biologists have rejected ‘Darwinism' and no longer agree with the ideas put forth by Darwin and Wallace.

Misconceptions about the implications of evolution

Evolution leads to immoral behavior.
Evolution supports the idea of ‘might makes right' and rationalizes the oppression of some people by others.
If students are taught that they are animals, they will behave like animals.

Misconceptions about evolution and religion

Evolution and religion are incompatible.

Misconceptions about teaching evolution

Teachers should teach "both sides" of the evolution issue and let students decide — or give equal time to evolution and creationism.
Evolution is itself religious, so requiring teachers to teach evolution violates the first amendment.

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:09 am

all very pretty but man written and you chose to believe it...that's all..

it is your chosen religion... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:15 am

No you need to answer the points and not avoid them as you always do and you need to back your stance of a creator God with evidence.

I have asked for your evidence and because you are such a weasel, you poorly deflect away from answering all the time.

Evidence for your God?

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:18 am

Didge wrote:No you need to answer the points and not avoid them as you always do and you need to back your stance of a creator God with evidence.

I have asked for your evidence and because you are such a weasel, you poorly deflect away from answering all the time.

Evidence for your God?

lol i have backed my belief of God with evidence but not because you think I have to, I chose to follow God to Believe Jesus died on the Cross for my sins...that is my choice..

you choose to believe what men tell you, that humanity is a a long series of accidents... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:20 am

You have backed nothing, all you have done is give me the view you have blind faith in a book, that is not evidence of the existence of a deity, try again.

I research myself and understand evolution not go off what people tell me, as you do, there is the big difference.

So again stop avoiding the question as you always do and present evidence for your mythical deity?

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:30 am

Didge wrote:You have backed nothing, all you have done is give me the view you have blind faith in a book, that is not evidence of the existence of a deity, try again.

I research myself and understand evolution not go off what people tell me, as you do, there is the big difference.

So again stop avoiding the question as you always do and present evidence for your mythical deity?

Lol i gave you examples of things I have seen for myself of how believing in God changes lives, health, happiness everything...

have you got fossils of your own, have you got access to fossils, carbon dating, bones, a lab for mutations??? and everything else... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:31 am

So still no evidence, try again

I do not need fossils to test evolution which shows you do not even understand evolution

Evidence for the existence of your God?

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 12:50 pm

Didge wrote:So still no evidence, try again

I do not need fossils to test evolution which shows you do not even understand evolution

Evidence for the existence of your God?

lol i've shown you evidence, can you tell me what cured them, can you tell me what changed their mind ..lol

do you have any carbon dating equipment, any old bones, hey a picture of a creature that had changed from one species to another, perhaps that would be good for you...

you accept what men have told you about evolution in faith, you cannot test it, evolution is a religion... Smile

a man made religion... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 12:51 pm

People cured is hearsay, that is not evidence of the existence of a deity and I research not go by what people tell me, that is what you do with faith in your belief that a man is a God

Try again

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:01 pm

Didge wrote:People cured is hearsay, that is not evidence of the existence of a deity and I research not go by what people tell me, that is what you do with faith in your belief that a man is a God

Try again

so me actually seeing it is hearsay.... but you reading a scientific report that you cannot test is evidence... ok..... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:03 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:People cured is hearsay, that is not evidence of the existence of a deity and I research not go by what people tell me, that is what you do with faith in your belief that a man is a God

Try again

so me actually seeing it is hearsay.... but you reading a scientific report that you cannot test is evidence... ok.....

The point is I can go and test it, oh my that was an epic own goal

So again where is your evidence for the existence of God?

You have none, which is even more comical as all you have is faith

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:05 pm

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so me actually seeing it is hearsay.... but you reading a scientific report that you cannot test is evidence... ok.....

The point is I can go and test it, oh my that was an epic own goal

So again where is your evidence for the existence of God?

You have none, which is even more comical as all you have is faith

please tell me how you can test the scientific report???

i have seen people healed, with my own eyes... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:09 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:

The point is I can go and test it, oh my that was an epic own goal

So again where is your evidence for the existence of God?

You have none, which is even more comical as all you have is faith

please tell me how you can test the scientific report???

i have seen people healed, with my own eyes...

By doing similar tests ha ha ha fuck me are you that thick?

Yes I am sure you have seen fairies too and that you are really Peter Panhead.

So again evidence for the existence of God and people being cured even if that was true would not be proof either, it could be explain that some humans have the ability to heal just like some animals do. You would have to show it was because a God existed that people can sure, which again means proof of the existence, which you do not have

DOH

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:30 pm

[quote="Didge"]

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

please tell me how you can test the scientific report???

i have seen people healed, with my own eyes...

By doing similar tests ha ha ha fuck me are you that thick?

Yes I am sure you have seen fairies too and that you are really Peter Panhead.

So again evidence for the existence of God and people being cured even if that was true would not be proof either, it could be explain that some humans have the ability to heal just like some animals do. You would have to show it was because a God existed that people can sure, which again means proof of the existence, which you do not have

DOH[/quote

Lol so you are saying you have all the equipment and all the items used in the report to test it for yourself, you will make your mind up...lol no i don't think you ever will... Smile

so someone being cured is not proof , right i hope you are this stringent with your man made religion of evolution..lol but some how I doubt it... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:51 pm

And when. ' miracle' rarely happens and God gets the credit, then why the fcuk does he not perform these "miracles" for everyone close to death etc?

God must be one biased fcuker!! Laughing

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 1:53 pm

Joy Division wrote:And when. ' miracle' rarely happens and God gets the credit, then why the fcuk does he not perform these "miracles" for everyone close to death etc?

God must be one biased fcuker!!

Do they ask for healing, do they consider God may heal them, i have no idea why everyone doesn't get healed only God does... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 3:25 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Joy Division wrote:And when. ' miracle' rarely happens and God gets the credit, then why the fcuk does he not perform these "miracles" for everyone close to death etc?

God must be one biased fcuker!!

Do they ask for healing, do they consider God may heal them, i have no idea why everyone doesn't get healed only God does...

Aye...the old faithful almighty, yet invisible and mute one. Laughing

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 3:28 pm

The idea of a God( in my opinion) is for those who fear the end, which all good things have to come to.

People who just can accept the end...you have a far, far higher chance of being visited by a lost loved one, than you have meeting any God waiting to accept or turn you away from the pearly gates and Rosy gardens.

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 3:56 pm

Joy Division wrote:The idea of a God( in my opinion) is for those who fear the end, which all good things have to come to.

People who just can accept the end...you have a far, far higher chance of being visited by a lost loved one, than you have meeting any God waiting to accept or turn you away from the pearly gates and Rosy gardens.

lol you believe you might meet a loved one, that's about right..lol

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 4:52 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Joy Division wrote:The idea of a God( in my opinion) is for those who fear the end, which all good things have to come to.

People who just can accept the end...you have a far, far higher chance of being visited by a lost loved one, than you have meeting any God waiting to accept or turn you away from the pearly gates and Rosy gardens.

lol you believe you might meet a loved one, that's about right..lol[/quote

There's much more chance of that though...

The chances of there being any God we stand before and be judged just doesn't have a shred of evidence to support it man.

Oh yeah, you've got to 'reach out to him'..

I've never heard any genuine cases of him taking anyone's hand..

It's all in your mind chief, but if that feeling of something so great and powerful and it keeps you happy ..then good luck to you..

But you should never force it on others, it's very cult like and creepy seeing packs of God Squads take to the street to bother people at their homes.

Some of the primary schools have adapted this OTT Christian belief and even have endless events raising money for Africa etc...which is fair enough, but it's not as they never raise money for poor children on their own doorstep.

An overly religious head teacher is not a good thing.

by Ben Reilly Sun May 25, 2014 9:29 pm

As with climate change, you either a) accept that thousands of scientists all of whom have set out to disprove one another's work are conspiring to lie to the world about evolution, or b) accept that their findings are valid.

If you accept conclusion A, you then have to explain why thousands of scientists from all over the world would engage in such a conspiracy, and how that conspiracy has not been leaked to the media.

Science is a field in which peers form a self-correcting community, much like journalism. Careers are made or lost on whether your facts are solid.

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:As with climate change, you either a) accept that thousands of scientists all of whom have set out to disprove one another's work are conspiring to lie to the world about evolution, or b) accept that their findings are valid.

If you accept conclusion A, you then have to explain why thousands of scientists from all over the world would engage in such a conspiracy, and how that conspiracy has not been leaked to the media.

Science is a field in which peers form a self-correcting community, much like journalism. Careers are made or lost on whether your facts are solid.

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:13 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:As with climate change, you either a) accept that thousands of scientists all of whom have set out to disprove one another's work are conspiring to lie to the world about evolution, or b) accept that their findings are valid.

If you accept conclusion A, you then have to explain why thousands of scientists from all over the world would engage in such a conspiracy, and how that conspiracy has not been leaked to the media.

Science is a field in which peers form a self-correcting community, much like journalism. Careers are made or lost on whether your facts are solid.

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

No he asked if you think all scientists are now all part of one massive conspiracy, not the babble you are coming out with, try again.

by Ben Reilly Sun May 25, 2014 10:17 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:As with climate change, you either a) accept that thousands of scientists all of whom have set out to disprove one another's work are conspiring to lie to the world about evolution, or b) accept that their findings are valid.

If you accept conclusion A, you then have to explain why thousands of scientists from all over the world would engage in such a conspiracy, and how that conspiracy has not been leaked to the media.

Science is a field in which peers form a self-correcting community, much like journalism. Careers are made or lost on whether your facts are solid.

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

What Didge said. Science isn't democracy; it's finding the most solid evidence and logical explanations. You're just too biased to accept that; you find it more comforting to think that scientists say evolution is valid because they're evil people trying to convince others not to believe in God. I know changing your mind to fit reality can be scary, I've been there Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:17 pm

Didge wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

No he asked if you think all scientists are now all part of one massive conspiracy, not the babble you are coming out with, try again.

No what he said is that so many scientists must be right, so if we go on numbers if everyone in the world decided 2 plus 2 equals five, would that make it right...

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:19 pm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Didge wrote:

No he asked if you think all scientists are now all part of one massive conspiracy, not the babble you are coming out with, try again.

No what he said is that so many scientists must be right, so if we go on numbers if everyone in the world decided 2 plus 2 equals five, would that make it right...

Yes he gave you two options which it seems you are trying to weasel out of answering

Try again

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:22 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

What Didge said. Science isn't democracy; it's finding the most solid evidence and logical explanations. You're just too biased to accept that; you find it more comforting to think that scientists say evolution is valid because they're evil people trying to convince others not to believe in God. I know changing your mind to fit reality can be scary, I've been there

that can and does change at any moment, how is that solid or evidence??

you are just trying to force your religion on others just as didge does, you have chosen what to accept as truth just as he has... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:23 pm

Still being a weasel, try again

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:24 pm

Didge wrote:Still being a weasel, try again

lol i leave the weaseling to you... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:26 pm

Still no answer to the questions by Ben, try again weasel.

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:27 pm

i've answered it already , dip shit... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:29 pm

Still no answer to Ben's question, try again weasel

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:30 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

What Didge said. Science isn't democracy; it's finding the most solid evidence and logical explanations. You're just too biased to accept that; you find it more comforting to think that scientists say evolution is valid because they're evil people trying to convince others not to believe in God. I know changing your mind to fit reality can be scary, I've been there

I love how he is running scared from answering your questions, hee hee, most amusing I must say.

lol!

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:32 pm

what is most amusing is you seem incapable of showing anything to prove evolution other than you choosing to believe it , after admitting you have no way to test it , which i assume is pretty much the same stance as all those who choose to believe evolution...

any news on the list of mutations that kept changing man... Smile

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:33 pm

And still no answer, try again weasel

by Guest Sun May 25, 2014 10:36 pm

i know i wish you had a list of mutations, perhaps something better than lactose intolerance this time... Smile

by veya_victaous Mon May 26, 2014 5:56 am

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

so what you are saying who ever appears to be in the majority must be right, so if enough Christians say God does exist would you be happy if everyone is forced and educated that they will believe God exists...

What Didge said. Science isn't democracy; it's finding the most solid evidence and logical explanations. You're just too biased to accept that; you find it more comforting to think that scientists say evolution is valid because they're evil people trying to convince others not to believe in God. I know changing your mind to fit reality can be scary, I've been there

that can and does change at any moment, how is that solid or evidence??

you are just trying to force your religion on others just as didge does, you have chosen what to accept as truth just as he has...

HF you seem to have it all backwards
Something that is willing to adapt to new evidence is stronger than something that sticks its fingers in it ears and screams "NO THE MAGIC SKY GIANT SAID I'M GOING TO HELL IF I BELIEVE ANY OF THIS NANANANANANANANANANANANANANA"

CHANGE : THAT'S IS THE POINT. Your Bibles inability to change is what has made it incorrect as it is 90% full of stuff we know to be false. and As it says this book is 100% true and it clearly isn't we can safely say it is all Lies like the '100% true' claim.

Or wait? Do you REALLY hate Change So much you want to kill 20 times more babies? they are your options admit the bible is rubbish and Science is correct OR You support the death of 20 times more infants than today (thanks to science)

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 6:28 am

HF is clueless:

Evolution & Religion:

It has become common for critics of evolution to claim that it is a religion which is being improperly supported by the government when it is taught in schools. No other facet of science is singled out for this treatment, at least not yet, but it is part of a wider effort to undermine naturalistic science. An examination of the characteristics which best define religions, distinguishing them from other types of belief systems, reveals just how wrong such claims are: evolution is not a religion or a religious belief system because it does not possess the characteristics of religions.

Belief in Supernatural Beings:

Perhaps the most common and fundamental characteristic of religions is the belief in supernatural beings — usually, but not always, including gods. Very few religions lack this characteristic and most religions are founded upon it. Does evolution involve belief in supernatural beings like god? No. Evolutionary theory neither encourages nor discourages it. Evolution is accepted by theists and atheists, regardless of their position on the existence of the supernatural. The mere existence or nonexistence of supernatural beings is ultimately irrelevant to evolutionary theory.

Sacred vs Profane Objects, Places, Times:

Differentiating between sacred and profane objects, places, and times helps religious believers focus on transcendental values and/or the existence of the supernatural. Some atheists may have things, places, or times which they treat as "sacred" in that they venerate them in some way. Does evolution involve such a distinction? No — even a casual reading of explanations of evolutionary theory reveals that it involves no sacred places, times, or objects. Distinctions between the sacred and the profane play no role in and are as irrelevant to evolutionary theory as they are to every other aspect of science.

Ritual Acts Focused on Sacred Objects, Places, Times:

If people believe in something sacred, they probably have rituals which are associated with that which is considered sacred. As with the very existence of a category of "sacred" things, however, there is nothing about evolution which either mandates such a belief or prohibits it. Most important is the fact that there are no rituals which are part of evolutionary theory itself. Biologists involved with the study of evolution engage in no incantations or ritual acts of any sort in their research.

Moral Code With Supernatural Origins:

Most religions preach some sort of moral code and, typically, this code is based upon whatever transcendental and supernatural beliefs are fundamental to that religion. Thus, for example, theistic religions typically claim that morality is derived from the commands of their gods. Evolutionary theory does have something to say about the origins of morality, but only as a natural development. Evolution does not promote any particular moral code. Morality isn't irrelevant to evolution, but it plays no fundamental or necessary role.

Characteristically Religious Feelings:

The vaguest characteristic of religion is the experience of "religious feelings" like awe, a sense of mystery, adoration, and even guilt. Religions encourage such feelings, especially in the presence of sacred objects and places, and the feelings are connected to the presence of the supernatural. The study of the natural world can promote feelings of awe in scientists, including evolutionary biologists, and some are led to their research by feelings of awe about nature. Evolutionary theory itself, however, does not explicitly endorse any sort of "religious" feelings or religious experiences.

Prayer and Other Forms of Communication:

Belief in supernatural beings like gods doesn't get you very far if you can't communicate with them, so religions which include such beliefs also teach how to talk to them — usually with some form of prayer or other ritual. Some who accept evolution believe in a god and therefore probably pray; others don't. Because there is nothing about evolutionary theory which encourages or discourages belief in the supernatural, there is also nothing about it which deals with prayer. Whether a person prays or not is as irrelevant in evolution as it is in other fields of the natural sciences.

A World View & Organization of One’s Life Based on the World View:

Religions constitute entire worldviews and teach people how to structure their lives: how to relate to others, what to expect from social relationships, how to behave, etc. Evolution provides data people may use in a worldview, but it is not a worldview itself and doesn't say anything about how to organize your life or incorporate knowledge of evolution into your life. It can be part of theistic or atheistic, conservative or liberal worldviews. The worldview a person has is ultimately irrelevant in the study of evolution, though one's study won't go far unless one uses a scientific and naturalistic methodology.

A Social Group Bound Together by the Above:

Few religious people follow their religion in isolated ways; most religions involve complex social organizations of believers who join each other for worship, rituals, prayer, etc. People who study evolution also belong to groups which are bound together by science generally or evolutionary biology in particular, but those groups are not bound together by all the above because none of the above is inherent in evolution or science. Scientists are bound together by their scientific and naturalistic methodology as well as their study of the natural world, but that alone cannot constitute a religion.

Who Cares? Comparing and Contrasting Evolution & Religion:

Does it matter whether evolutionary theory is a religion or not? It appears to matter a great deal to those who make the claim despite the fact that doing so misrepresents religion, evolution, and science generally. Are they simply unaware of the differences between religion and science? Perhaps some are, especially given how many people tend to use very simplistic definitions of both religion and science, but I suspect that many leaders of the Christian Right are not so ignorant. Instead, I think they are arguing in a deliberately disingenuous manner in order to blur the distinctions between religion and science.
Godless, atheistic science is no respecter of tradition. Over the years, science has forced the revision or abandonment of many traditional religious beliefs. People think that there need be no conflict between religion and science, but so long as religion make empirical claims about the world we live in, conflict will be inevitable because that's precisely what science does — and most of the time, science's answers or explanations contradict those offered by supernatural religions. In a fair comparison, religion always loses because its claims are consistently wrong while science consistently expands our knowledge and our ability to live well.

Religious believers who are unwilling to abandon making empirical claims and are unhappy with their ability to challenge science directly have sometimes opted for undermining people's willingness to rely on science. If people believe that science generally or at least one part of science, like evolutionary biology, is just another religious faith, then perhaps Christians will be as unwilling to accept this as they are unwilling to adopt Islam or Hinduism. If science and evolution are just another religion, it may be easier to dismiss them.

A more honest approach would be to acknowledge that while non-religious themselves, science generally and evolutionary biology in particular do make challenges on many religious beliefs. This forces people to confront those beliefs more directly and critically than they might otherwise have done. If those beliefs are sound, then believers shouldn't be concerned about such challenges. Avoiding these difficult issues by pretending that science is religious does no one any good.

http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutionreligionreligious/p/EvolutionRelig.htm

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:00 am

so what are you evolving into??

by Guest Mon May 26, 2014 11:03 am

smelly_bandit wrote:so what are you evolving into??

I have evolved, sadly you have not.

by veya_victaous Mon May 26, 2014 11:26 am

smelly_bandit wrote:so what are you evolving into??

an all round superior human being than you smelly Razz

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