Egyptian physician will stand trial in landmark female genital mutilation case

A doctor is to stand trial in Egypt on charges of female genital mutilation on Thursday, the first case of its kind in a country where FGM is illegal but widely accepted.

Activists warned this week that the landmark case was just one small step towards eradicating the practice, as villagers openly promised to uphold the tradition and a local police chief said it was near-impossible to stamp out.

Raslan Fadl, a doctor in a Nile delta village, is accused of killing 13-year-old schoolgirl Sohair al-Bata'a in a botched FGM operation last June. Sohair's father, Mohamed al-Bata'a, will also be charged with complicity in her death.

Fadl denies the charges, and claims Sohair died due to an allergic reaction to penicillin she took during a procedure to remove genital warts.

"What circumcision? There was no circumcision," Fadl shouted on Tuesday evening, sitting outside his home where Sohair died last summer. "It's all made up by these dogs' rights people [human rights activists]."

In the next village along, Sohair's parents had gone into hiding, according to their family. Her grandmother – after whom Sohair was named – admitted an FGM operation had taken place, but disapproved of the court case.

Raggamuffin wrote:If it's illegal, they should prosecute. It's no good saying that so many people do it that it would be pointless to uphold the law. You could say that about anything.

Sassy wrote:Well, you had better ask your wife, because she was agreeing the other day that the practice was cultural, not religious, and that it was also a problem amongst African Christians.   It is something that has been accepted for thousands of years, before Christianity and Islam came into being, began in Africa, and unfortunately is so ingrained it takes a lot more than laws to wipe it out.   It takes persistant, long term education and work within the community.   The education is going on and is being prioritised by many organisations, hence this very landmark case.   It is a small step on a long path, but it is now being taken up all over the world.

Sassy wrote:Well, you had better ask your wife, because she was agreeing the other day that the practice was cultural, not religious, and that it was also a problem amongst African Christians.   It is something that has been accepted for thousands of years, before Christianity and Islam came into being, began in Africa, and unfortunately is so ingrained it takes a lot more than laws to wipe it out.   It takes persistant, long term education and work within the community.   The education is going on and is being prioritised by many organisations, hence this very landmark case.   It is a small step on a long path, but it is now being taken up all over the world.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:Well, you had better ask your wife, because she was agreeing the other day that the practice was cultural, not religious, and that it was also a problem amongst African Christians.   It is something that has been accepted for thousands of years, before Christianity and Islam came into being, began in Africa, and unfortunately is so ingrained it takes a lot more than laws to wipe it out.   It takes persistant, long term education and work within the community.   The education is going on and is being prioritised by many organisations, hence this very landmark case.   It is a small step on a long path, but it is now being taken up all over the world.

Education? That won't work. What they need to do is prosecute the people who do it - that will "educate" others not to do it.

veya_victaous wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Education? That won't work. What they need to do is prosecute the people who do it - that will "educate" others not to do it.

they need both because they need the parents to stop asking for it to be done too     

Sassy wrote:Sorry Rags, but you just don't understand the problem.   The practice is so ingrained that the mothers believe it is the best thing for their daughters, and they will fight tooth and nail for it.   That is why, the only way is to educate the mothers in particular, and it's happening.   It started slowly but is gaining momentum.   Jailing them won't work, because they will still believe that they are being jailed for doing the right thing.   Showing them just how wrong it is, is the only way to go and the only way that works long term.

Sassy wrote:Well, you had better ask your wife, because she was agreeing the other day that the practice was cultural, not religious, and that it was also a problem amongst African Christians.   It is something that has been accepted for thousands of years, before Christianity and Islam came into being, began in Africa, and unfortunately is so ingrained it takes a lot more than laws to wipe it out.   It takes persistant, long term education and work within the community.   The education is going on and is being prioritised by many organisations, hence this very landmark case.   It is a small step on a long path, but it is now being taken up all over the world.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

A doctor is to stand trial in Egypt on charges of female genital mutilation on Thursday, the first case of its kind in a country where FGM is illegal but widely accepted.

Activists warned this week that the landmark case was just one small step towards eradicating the practice, as villagers openly promised to uphold the tradition and a local police chief said it was near-impossible to stamp out.

Raslan Fadl, a doctor in a Nile delta village, is accused of killing 13-year-old schoolgirl Sohair al-Bata'a in a botched FGM operation last June. Sohair's father, Mohamed al-Bata'a, will also be charged with complicity in her death.

Fadl denies the charges, and claims Sohair died due to an allergic reaction to penicillin she took during a procedure to remove genital warts.

"What circumcision? There was no circumcision," Fadl shouted on Tuesday evening, sitting outside his home where Sohair died last summer. "It's all made up by these dogs' rights people [human rights activists]."

In the next village along, Sohair's parents had gone into hiding, according to their family. Her grandmother – after whom Sohair was named – admitted an FGM operation had taken place, but disapproved of the court case.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/21/egyptian-doctor-fadl-trial-female-genital-mutilation-landmark-case

Might just be me, but I hate it when it's simply referred to as FGM, like people are afraid of saying what it really is.

SEXY MAMA wrote:Lets hope this case deters others.

What i dont understand is how the women/ mothers who have had this disgusting procedure done will force their daughters to have it done?

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Lets hope this case deters others.

What i dont understand is how the women/ mothers who have had this disgusting procedure done will force their daughters to have it done?

Islam baby

It warps the mind and corrupts the soul

Thank Allah you live in the west where our culture has sheltered you from islams naked influence

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:Sorry Rags, but you just don't understand the problem.   The practice is so ingrained that the mothers believe it is the best thing for their daughters, and they will fight tooth and nail for it.   That is why, the only way is to educate the mothers in particular, and it's happening.   It started slowly but is gaining momentum.   Jailing them won't work, because they will still believe that they are being jailed for doing the right thing.   Showing them just how wrong it is, is the only way to go and the only way that works long term.

Yes, I know it's ingrained, which is why education won't work. Sometimes you can't pussyfoot around with this issues, you have to tell people that if they do it, or if they ask for it to be done, they will go to prison or whatever. It's the only way.

It's all very well talking about the long term, but what about the poor girls who are being mutilated now?

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:Lets hope this case deters others.

What i dont understand is how the women/ mothers who have had this disgusting procedure done will force their daughters to have it done?

Islam baby

It warps the mind and corrupts the soul

Thank Allah you live in the west where our culture has sheltered you from islams naked influence

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Islam baby

It warps the mind and corrupts the soul

Thank Allah you live in the west where our culture has sheltered you from islams naked influence

You really are pathetic Smelly!

We follow the sunnah of the prophet. None of the prophets daughters had it done. If it was in Islam it would have been carried out on his daughters or wives.

It really is that simple....,,,,  

Sassy wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Islam baby

It warps the mind and corrupts the soul

Thank Allah you live in the west where our culture has sheltered you from islams naked influence

Bollocks, African christians do it to, you are an ignorant bastard.   It started long before christianity or Islam.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Bollocks, African christians do it to, you are an ignorant bastard.   It started long before christianity or Islam.

So basically you're saying that Muslims and blacks are barbarians and savages

Racist and islamophobic in a single thought sassy, if you keep this up I'm sure you can get homophobia ticked off before sunset

Sassy wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

So basically you're saying that Muslims and blacks are barbarians and savages

Racist and islamophobic in a single thought sassy, if you keep this up I'm sure you can get homophobia ticked off before sunset

Christ on a bike, you are a boring old fart.   I'm saying that an ingrained practice that people believe to be right takes a long time to change.   Feudalism and people's belief in 'knowing their place' and doing what they were born to do took hundreds of years to be overcome here.    In fact it's still around, we still bow and curtsey to monarchy, if that's not feudal I don't know what is.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Christ on a bike, you are a boring old fart.   I'm saying that an ingrained practice that people believe to be right takes a long time to change.   Feudalism and people's belief in 'knowing their place' and doing what they were born to do took hundreds of years to be overcome here.    In fact it's still around, we still bow and curtsey to monarchy, if that's not feudal I don't know what is.

Vote ukip

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

You really are pathetic Smelly!

We follow the sunnah of the prophet. None of the prophets daughters had it done. If it was in Islam it would have been carried out on his daughters or wives.

It really is that simple....,,,,  

You follow the sunnah do you??

The  you must agree with death for adultery and peadophillia since Aisha was 9 when he raped her oops I mean consummated his marriage to her

The sunnah SM also disproves you apostasy being allowed claim

I would suggest you don't shout out what it is you follow

Because what you follow is demonic

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

You follow the sunnah do you??

The  you must agree with death for adultery and peadophillia since Aisha was 9 when he raped her oops I mean consummated his marriage to her

The sunnah SM also disproves you apostasy being allowed claim

I would suggest you don't shout out what it is you follow

Because what you follow is demonic

Muslims are allowed freedom of faith Smelly.

One cannot be forced into submission. The whole concept of Islam is based on intention/ niyat.

I suggest you read up about this.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I know it's ingrained, which is why education won't work. Sometimes you can't pussyfoot around with this issues, you have to tell people that if they do it, or if they ask for it to be done, they will go to prison or whatever. It's the only way.

It's all very well talking about the long term, but what about the poor girls who are being mutilated now?

There isn't a win win situation, and education is being shown to work.   There are people working very hard to change it, and getting results.   Of course everyone wishes it could be stopped tomorrow, but when it has been ignored for so many years, by people who didn't want to talk about it, because it was female genitalia and 'not nice' to think that results could be obtained instantly for such a large problem, would be disingenuous.    The fact is, there have been people trying to bring this to attention since the 60s, and they were virtually told to go away, it was a revolting subject, and after all, it was only a female problem.   I know, because that's when I started talking about it after a tv show that completely stunned me, and caused uproar that they were publically talking about something so disgusting.

If you are really worried about it, join Women for Women.   Here's one of their campaigners talking about it:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/teachers-can-help-end-obnoxious-fgm-says-women-for-women-international-campaigner-8941431.html

smelly_bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Muslims are allowed freedom of faith Smelly.

One cannot be forced into submission. The whole concept of Islam is based on intention/ niyat.

I suggest you read up about this.

I suggest you tell the rest of the Muslim world that mama because it's not me forcing conversion or killing for apostasy - it's Muslims doing it

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

There isn't a win win situation, and education is being shown to work.   There are people working very hard to change it, and getting results.   Of course everyone wishes it could be stopped tomorrow, but when it has been ignored for so many years, by people who didn't want to talk about it, because it was female genitalia and 'not nice' to think that results could be obtained instantly for such a large problem, would be disingenuous.    The fact is, there have been people trying to bring this to attention since the 60s, and they were virtually told to go away, it was a revolting subject, and after all, it was only a female problem.   I know, because that's when I started talking about it after a tv show that completely stunned me, and caused uproar that they were publically talking about something so disgusting.

If you are really worried about it, join Women for Women.   Here's one of their campaigners talking about it:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/teachers-can-help-end-obnoxious-fgm-says-women-for-women-international-campaigner-8941431.html

But it could be stopped much sooner in Egypt because it's not legal. All they have to do is prosecute the offenders.

It's like the UK Government having a law against murder but then saying - oh, but people will still do it so we should turn a blind eye, or we should educate them about it and tell them that it's a bit naughty.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

But it could be stopped much sooner in Egypt because it's not legal. All they have to do is prosecute the offenders.

It's like the UK Government having a law against murder but then saying - oh, but people will still do it so we should turn a blind eye, or we should educate them about it and tell them that it's a bit naughty.

Can I just suggest that if you are really concerned, you go and read up on the difficulties faced and help in any way you can?

Raggamuffin wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

they need both because they need the parents to stop asking for it to be done too     

Prosecute them too for child abuse. They'll soon stop asking.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

I suggest you tell the rest of the Muslim world that mama because it's not me forcing conversion or killing for apostasy - it's Muslims doing it

Indeed.

Sassy wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

Islam baby

It warps the mind and corrupts the soul

Thank Allah you live in the west where our culture has sheltered you from islams naked influence

Bollocks, African christians do it to, you are an ignorant bastard.   It started long before christianity or Islam.

Vicar of Dibley wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Bollocks, African christians do it to, you are an ignorant bastard.   It started long before christianity or Islam.

some African Christians do it because they are uneducated about it and are still influenced by their culture, but the koran says to do it, the bible does not , Christians are against it and so should muslims be but the if the  koran says to do it then they should all be trotting off to have the procedure done so they don't offend allah shouldn't they ?

smelly_bandit wrote:i see didge is once again tarring all Muslims with the same association fallacy brush

didge appears to be unable to comprehend that not all Muslims are alike so why would they all be equally devout and observant in their faith??

such bigoted generalization doesn't help the issue

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Can I just suggest that if you are really concerned, you go and read up on the difficulties faced and help in any way you can?

I shouldn't need to in this case. It's illegal - end of. If that doesn't stop it, I don't think that "education" will.

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:i see didge is once again tarring all Muslims with the same association fallacy brush

didge appears to be unable to comprehend that not all Muslims are alike so why would they all be equally devout and observant in their faith??

such bigoted generalization doesn't help the issue

Devout, so all devout Muslims believe in FGM now do they?

I see smelly is as clueless as ever

He can of course show that all devout Muslims believe in FGM?

Take your time.

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Devout, so all devout Muslims believe in FGM now do they?

I see smelly is as clueless as ever

He can of course show that all devout Muslims believe in FGM?

Take your time.

thats what you said buddy

you said that if the qur'an said it, then why don't ALL Muslims do it??

this means that you view all Muslims to be equally devout (the same) and observant in their religious views, which is the only way your idiotic argument of
"if the qur'an does SAY it then all Muslims would DO it"

this is a mass generalization and pigeon holing of all Muslims

newsflash - not all Muslims are the same you fucking bigot  

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Devout, so all devout Muslims believe in FGM now do they?

I see smelly is as clueless as ever

He can of course show that all devout Muslims believe in FGM?

Take your time.

thats what you said buddy

you said that if the qur'an said it, then why don't ALL Muslims do it??

this means that you view all Muslims to be equally devout (the same) and observant in their religious views, which is the only way your idiotic argument of
"if the qur'an does SAY it then all Muslims would DO it"

this is a mass generalization and pigeon holing of all Muslims

newsflash - not all Muslims are the same you fucking bigot  

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

thats what you said buddy

you said that if the qur'an said it, then why don't ALL Muslims do it??

this means that you view all Muslims to be equally devout (the same) and observant in their religious views, which is the only way your idiotic argument of
"if the qur'an does SAY it then all Muslims would DO it"

this is a mass generalization and pigeon holing of all Muslims

newsflash - not all Muslims are the same you fucking bigot  

I am going off your generalization, so to you then there must not be many devout as you claim them Muslims in the world, because your view of Islam is only followed by a minority view, because thus many are not as devout as you see or follow your view of Islam, again examples are by the numbers here in this country and around the world.

Oh dear you really did walk into that one dummy


Ha Ha Ha

Didge wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:

thats what you said buddy

you said that if the qur'an said it, then why don't ALL Muslims do it??

this means that you view all Muslims to be equally devout (the same) and observant in their religious views, which is the only way your idiotic argument of
"if the qur'an does SAY it then all Muslims would DO it"

this is a mass generalization and pigeon holing of all Muslims

newsflash - not all Muslims are the same you fucking bigot  

I am going off your generalization, so to you then there must not be many devout as you claim them Muslims in the world, because your view of Islam is only followed by a minority view, because thus many are not as devout as you see or follow your view of Islam, again examples are by the numbers here in this country and around the world.

Oh dear you really did walk into that one dummy


Ha Ha Ha

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:



I am going off your generalization, so to you then there must not be many devout as you claim them Muslims in the world, because your view of Islam is only followed by a minority view, because thus many are not as devout as you see or follow your view of Islam, again examples are by the numbers here in this country and around the world.

Oh dear you really did walk into that one dummy


Ha Ha Ha

Can you rephrase that into English because I haven't got a clue what you're trying to say

smelly_bandit wrote:Another example of a lefty not reading the post and telling me what I've said

smelly_bandit wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

A doctor is to stand trial in Egypt on charges of female genital mutilation on Thursday, the first case of its kind in a country where FGM is illegal but widely accepted.

Activists warned this week that the landmark case was just one small step towards eradicating the practice, as villagers openly promised to uphold the tradition and a local police chief said it was near-impossible to stamp out.

Raslan Fadl, a doctor in a Nile delta village, is accused of killing 13-year-old schoolgirl Sohair al-Bata'a in a botched FGM operation last June. Sohair's father, Mohamed al-Bata'a, will also be charged with complicity in her death.

Fadl denies the charges, and claims Sohair died due to an allergic reaction to penicillin she took during a procedure to remove genital warts.

"What circumcision? There was no circumcision," Fadl shouted on Tuesday evening, sitting outside his home where Sohair died last summer. "It's all made up by these dogs' rights people [human rights activists]."

In the next village along, Sohair's parents had gone into hiding, according to their family. Her grandmother – after whom Sohair was named – admitted an FGM operation had taken place, but disapproved of the court case.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/21/egyptian-doctor-fadl-trial-female-genital-mutilation-landmark-case

Might just be me, but I hate it when it's simply referred to as FGM, like people are afraid of saying what it really is.

Well it's the laws of lefty PC Ben

Fgm is much nicer sounding and that's how you delusional lefties like it