No free NHS abortions in England for women from Northern Ireland, court rules

Mr Justice King upheld the current laws that mean women who come over to bypass stricter rules on terminations must pay for the procedure.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/no-free-nhs-abortions-in-england-for-women-from-northern-ireland-court-rules-9337658.html

It must be me. NI are still part if the UK.

A government report found that immigration officials at one airport stopped more than 300 such mothers-to-be over two years.
Most of the women had to be admitted and allowed to give birth on the NHS, the report found, because their pregnancies were too advanced for them to fly home.
Airlines typically do not carry women more than 36 weeks pregnant. However, the women boarded flights in their home countries with forged doctors’ notes concealing the length of their pregnancies.
The disclosure will heighten growing fears over “health tourism”, which sees foreigners coming to Britain for free NHS care.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10540881/The-300-maternity-tourists.html

Maybe it is because NI understand and speak English. Makes them an easy target.

Nodded to stop all access to NHS to all non British passport holders.


Other workers here need special insurance cover or face direct charge for any services given.

gerber wrote:Mr Justice King upheld the current laws that mean women who come over to bypass stricter rules on terminations must pay for the procedure.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/no-free-nhs-abortions-in-england-for-women-from-northern-ireland-court-rules-9337658.html

It must be me.  NI are still part if the UK.

A government report found that immigration officials at one airport stopped more than 300 such mothers-to-be over two years.
Most of the women had to be admitted and allowed to give birth on the NHS, the report found, because their pregnancies were too advanced for them to fly home.
Airlines typically do not carry women more than 36 weeks pregnant. However, the women boarded flights in their home countries with forged doctors’ notes concealing the length of their pregnancies.
The disclosure will heighten growing fears over “health tourism”, which sees foreigners coming to Britain for free NHS care.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10540881/The-300-maternity-tourists.html

Maybe it is because  NI understand and speak English.  Makes them an easy target.  

Absolutely not on Gerbs.  Do you know, even though they at last are going to consider it, maybe, they still will not allow abortions if a women is raped or if the baby is shown to be severely deformed.   They are part of the UK, they should be able to access NHS care in any part of the UK.   I wonder how much pressure the RC Church has brought to bear in this case.

Good.

Stupidity.  

Raggamuffin wrote:Good.

You stupid woman, don't you even have empathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant from it?

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Good.

You stupid woman, don't you even have empathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant from it?

Oh dear - resorting to abuse already Sassy?   

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

You stupid woman, don't you even have empathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant from it?

Oh dear - resorting to abuse already Sassy?   

That's not abusive. Having no sympathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant is abusive. And not being able to put yourself in her shoes is either stupid or you are missing normal human emotions.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh dear - resorting to abuse already Sassy?   

That's not abusive.   Having no sympathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant is abusive.   And not being able to put yourself in her shoes is either stupid or you are missing normal human emotions.

I haven't mentioned women who have been raped. My first post was in response to the OP. Get over yourself - there are posts other than yours you know.

Did you miss this bit by the way?

Northern Ireland did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act, which liberalised the procedure in the rest of the UK, and the issue is a subject of frequent political debate.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That's not abusive.   Having no sympathy for a woman who has been raped and finds herself pregnant is abusive.   And not being able to put yourself in her shoes is either stupid or you are missing normal human emotions.

I haven't mentioned women who have been raped. My first post was in response to the OP. Get over yourself - there are posts other than yours you know.

Did you miss this bit by the way?

Northern Ireland did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act, which liberalised the procedure in the rest of the UK, and the issue is a subject of frequent political debate.

It was that bit I was talking about, and the OP says that the women who come over from N.Ireland to have an abortion on the NHS will not be allowed to do so.   They come because the rules in N.Ireland will not give them an abortion even if they have been raped or are carrying a severely deformed baby. To which you said 'Good'.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I haven't mentioned women who have been raped. My first post was in response to the OP. Get over yourself - there are posts other than yours you know.

Did you miss this bit by the way?

It was that bit I was talking about, and the OP says that the women who come over from N.Ireland to have an abortion on the NHS will not be allowed to do so.   They come because the rules in N.Ireland will not give them an abortion even if they have been raped or are carrying a severely deformed baby.   To which you said 'Good'.

Er no. The article says they will not be able to have a free abortion.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

It was that bit I was talking about, and the OP says that the women who come over from N.Ireland to have an abortion on the NHS will not be allowed to do so.   They come because the rules in N.Ireland will not give them an abortion even if they have been raped or are carrying a severely deformed baby.   To which you said 'Good'.

Er no. The article says they will not be able to have a free abortion.

OK, we will try this very slowly. N.Ireland is part of the UK, therefore the services of the NHS should be free to any UK citizen. Women from N.Ireland (UK Citizens) are going to be denied abortions on the NHS. Women from every other part of the UK get abortions on the NHS. The reason why women from N.Ireland come over to England for their abortions is because, even though it is part of the UK, N.Ireland has been allowed to have different rules about abortion and will not give one to a woman who has been raped or who is carrying a very disabled baby. Every other woman in the UK can have one of the NHS under those circumstances. Therefore, women in N.Ireland are being treated differently to women in every other part of the UK, and it is not right that they are not allowed to travel to another part of the UK to have an abortion, especially when it is because of rape, or their baby being badly deformed.

gerber wrote:

A government report found that immigration officials at one airport stopped more than 300 such mothers-to-be over two years.
Most of the women had to be admitted and allowed to give birth on the NHS, the report found, because their pregnancies were too advanced for them to fly home.
Airlines typically do not carry women more than 36 weeks pregnant. However, the women boarded flights in their home countries with forged doctors’ notes concealing the length of their pregnancies.

I like how no-one is commenting on this.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Er no. The article says they will not be able to have a free abortion.

OK, we will try this very slowly.   N.Ireland is part of the UK, therefore the services of the NHS should be free to any UK citizen.   Women from N.Ireland (UK Citizens) are going to be denied abortions on the NHS.   Women from every other part of the UK get abortions on the NHS.   The reason why women from N.Ireland come over to England for their abortions is because, even though it is part of the UK, N.Ireland has been allowed to have different rules about abortion and will not give one to a woman who has been raped or who is carrying a very disabled baby.   Every other woman in the UK can have one of the NHS under those circumstances.   Therefore, women in N.Ireland are being treated differently to women in every other part of the UK, and it is not right that they are not allowed to travel to another part of the UK to have an abortion, especially when it is because of rape, or their baby being badly deformed.

Er, did you miss this bit again?

Northern Ireland did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act, which liberalised the procedure in the rest of the UK, and the issue is a subject of frequent political debate.

Why are you obsessing about rape? The girl in the article wasn't raped, and most women who seek an abortion haven't been raped.

I think a lot of women should be denied abortions on the NHS actually, not just ones from NI. However, the judge's ruling does cut out some of it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

OK, we will try this very slowly.   N.Ireland is part of the UK, therefore the services of the NHS should be free to any UK citizen.   Women from N.Ireland (UK Citizens) are going to be denied abortions on the NHS.   Women from every other part of the UK get abortions on the NHS.   The reason why women from N.Ireland come over to England for their abortions is because, even though it is part of the UK, N.Ireland has been allowed to have different rules about abortion and will not give one to a woman who has been raped or who is carrying a very disabled baby.   Every other woman in the UK can have one of the NHS under those circumstances.   Therefore, women in N.Ireland are being treated differently to women in every other part of the UK, and it is not right that they are not allowed to travel to another part of the UK to have an abortion, especially when it is because of rape, or their baby being badly deformed.

Er, did you miss this bit again?

Northern Ireland did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act, which liberalised the procedure in the rest of the UK, and the issue is a subject of frequent political debate.

Why are you obsessing about rape? The girl in the article wasn't raped, and most women who seek an abortion haven't been raped.

I think a lot of women should be denied abortions on the NHS actually, not just ones from NI. However, the judge's ruling does cut out some of it.

NO, I DIDN'T MISS THAT BIT, THAT BIT IS THE WHOLE REASON WOMEN FROM N.IRELAND COME OVER HERE. Because they did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act they can't have abortions over there, even when they have been raped. Got it?

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Er, did you miss this bit again?




Why are you obsessing about rape? The girl in the article wasn't raped, and most women who seek an abortion haven't been raped.

I think a lot of women should be denied abortions on the NHS actually, not just ones from NI. However, the judge's ruling does cut out some of it.

NO, I DIDN'T MISS THAT BIT, THAT BIT IS THE WHOLE REASON WOMEN FROM N.IRELAND COME OVER HERE.   Because they did not subscribe to the 1967 Abortion Act they can't have abortions over there, even when they have been raped.   Got it?

So what's your problem then?

What?  The problems is women who are British, just because they live in N.Ireland are going to be denied something that women in every other part of Britain can have.    ::hdintowll:: How many more times?

Sassy wrote:What?  The problems is women who are British, just because they live in N.Ireland are going to be denied something that women in every other part of Britain can have.    ::hdintowll::   How many more times?

How many more times do you have to be told that NI did not sign up to the 1967 Abortion Act?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:What?  The problems is women who are British, just because they live in N.Ireland are going to be denied something that women in every other part of Britain can have.    ::hdintowll::   How many more times?

How many more times do you have to be told that NI did not sign up to the 1967 Abortion Act?

Honestly, absolutely no bloody point talking to you, you just don't seem to understand the point of the OP.

The stupidity level is shocking.

A 12 year old child is raped.

The family of this child, are extremely poor. She now has to have this baby that she didn't ask for. She can put this infant up for adoption.

But, she shouldn't be made to have a baby due to a rape.

She's a victim and should be treated as such.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

How many more times do you have to be told that NI did not sign up to the 1967 Abortion Act?

Honestly, absolutely no bloody point talking to you, you just don't seem to understand the point of the OP.

It's you who doesn't understand it. I agree with the judge.

Why is everyone obsessed with rape? Most unwanted pregnancies are not the result of rape.

I think the law on abortion in England is too lax actually.

 

There is no point Sassy.

Don't start on me just because I don't agree with killing unborn babies at the drop of a hat.

harrymuffin wrote:There is no point Sassy.

I agree, stupidity is nothing unless taken to the nth degree, and she takes it to the nth degree!

Sassy wrote:

harrymuffin wrote:There is no point Sassy.

I agree, stupidity is nothing unless taken to the nth degree, and she takes it to the nth degree!

Oh dear - so now you have joined Didge on the bandwagon.  ::smthg:: 

Look, if you think that women should be able to come here and get rid of their babies for free just because they can't be bothered to have them, that's up to you, but don't pretend to be "intelligent" about it.

This actually surprises me. I see the prisons full and catered to convicts.

But a young girl-woman wants-needs to abort, and she has to pay?

Scrambles the brain.

harrymuffin wrote:This actually surprises me.  I see the prisons full and catered to convicts.

But a young girl-woman wants-needs to abort,  and she has to pay?

Scrambles the brain.

 

Why shouldn't they pay?

Raggamuffin wrote:

harrymuffin wrote:This actually surprises me.  I see the prisons full and catered to convicts.

But a young girl-woman wants-needs to abort,  and she has to pay?

Scrambles the brain.

 

Why shouldn't they pay?

Why should they? They're part of the UK.

harrymuffin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Why shouldn't they pay?

Why should they?  They're part of the UK.

Do I really have to quote from the article yet again? NI did not sign up to the 1967 Abortion Act!

Like I said, I think most women should pay for abortions in England anyway, so obviously I'm not going to say that women from NI shouldn't.

Free Healthcare means, Free.

That includes abortions. No woman in the UK should have to pay for it if they want it.

harrymuffin wrote:Free Healthcare means,  Free.

That includes abortions.   No woman in the UK should have to pay for it if they want it.

I disagree. There are too many lifestyle abortions here. The only abortions which should be free are ones where the baby is handicapped, and not in a trivial way.

Raggamuffin wrote:

harrymuffin wrote:Free Healthcare means,  Free.

That includes abortions.   No woman in the UK should have to pay for it if they want it.

I disagree. There are too many lifestyle abortions here. The only abortions which should be free are ones where the baby is handicapped, and not in a trivial way.

But that wasn't the point of the OP was it. The point of the OP was that women from N.Ireland are being stopped from having free abortions on the NHS, that women in every other part of the UK are allowed BECAUSE N.IRELAND OPTED OUT OF THE ABORTION ACT, which they should not have been allowed to do.

Raggamuffin wrote:

harrymuffin wrote:Free Healthcare means,  Free.

That includes abortions.   No woman in the UK should have to pay for it if they want it.

I disagree. There are too many lifestyle abortions here. The only abortions which should be free are ones where the baby is handicapped, and not in a trivial way.

A woman has a right to do with her body what she wants. If she does or doesn't want to have a child, if handicapped, has nothing to do with it.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I disagree. There are too many lifestyle abortions here. The only abortions which should be free are ones where the baby is handicapped, and not in a trivial way.

But that wasn't the point of the OP was it.   The point of the OP was that women from N.Ireland are being stopped from having free abortions on the NHS, that women in every other part of the UK are allowed BECAUSE N.IRELAND OPTED OUT OF THE ABORTION ACT, which they should not have been allowed to do.

Exactly - they opted out. Why shouldn't they have been allowed to opt out?

harrymuffin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I disagree. There are too many lifestyle abortions here. The only abortions which should be free are ones where the baby is handicapped, and not in a trivial way.

A woman has a right to do with her body what she wants.   If she does or doesn't want to have a child,   if handicapped,  has nothing to do with it.

Sure, and she can pay for the right to do what she likes IMO.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

But that wasn't the point of the OP was it.   The point of the OP was that women from N.Ireland are being stopped from having free abortions on the NHS, that women in every other part of the UK are allowed BECAUSE N.IRELAND OPTED OUT OF THE ABORTION ACT, which they should not have been allowed to do.

Exactly - they opted out. Why shouldn't they have been allowed to opt out?

Because they are part of the UK and all women in the UK should have access to the same services. And the reason why they opted out was, at the time, the RC Church still had a stranglehold. And the church should not be able to say what people should be allowed or not.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Exactly - they opted out. Why shouldn't they have been allowed to opt out?

Because they are part of the UK and all women in the UK should have access to the same services.    And the reason why they opted out was, at the time, the RC Church still had a stranglehold.    And the church should not be able to say what people should be allowed or not.

So you want to talk about what they "should" or "shouldn't" be allowed to do, but you don't like me talking about what should or shouldn't be allowed here.

The law is broken here anyway. I don't think the abortion laws say that a women can have an abortion because she feels like it.

Raggs, what about women that fall pregnant whilst actually and actively using some form of contraception?

eddie wrote:Raggs, what about women that fall pregnant whilst actually and actively using some form of contraception?

If it's so important to them that they don't get pregnant, perhaps they should use two forms of contraception. They will have been advised that no contraceptive is 100% effective.

Gordon flaming Bennett

I thought as most do we still have a United Kingdom. Amazing, one says we don't. Does the the one who agrees with NI having to pay for abortions in England agree that we should also have to pay.........

Interesting point just thought of.....

Do they have to pay if they go to Scotland or Wales ?

gerber wrote:Gordon flaming Bennett

I thought as most do we still have a United Kingdom.  Amazing, one says we don't.  Does the the one who agrees with NI having to pay for abortions in England agree that we should also have to pay.........

Interesting point just thought of.....

Do they have to pay if they go to Scotland or Wales ?

Me? I think I made my opinion quite clear.

gerber wrote:Gordon flaming Bennett

I thought as most do we still have a United Kingdom.  Amazing, one says we don't.  Does the the one who agrees with NI having to pay for abortions in England agree that we should also have to pay.........

Interesting point just thought of.....

Do they have to pay if they go to Scotland or Wales ?

According to this Judge, yes. Stupid man!

Raggamuffin wrote:

eddie wrote:Raggs, what about women that fall pregnant whilst actually and actively using some form of contraception?

If it's so important to them that they don't get pregnant, perhaps they should use two forms of contraception. They will have been advised that no contraceptive is 100% effective.

Lol are you a nutcase Raggs? Should we use three in case two of them dont work?
How about four, or five???

Come on, be serious!

Sassy wrote:

gerber wrote:Gordon flaming Bennett

I thought as most do we still have a United Kingdom.  Amazing, one says we don't.  Does the the one who agrees with NI having to pay for abortions in England agree that we should also have to pay.........

Interesting point just thought of.....

Do they have to pay if they go to Scotland or Wales ?

According to this Judge, yes.   Stupid man!

We seem to have a mule within the thread................. cannot believe what I have been reading. Maybe needs to meet with desperate females of any age without support, money and no hope.....and as been well documented never had meetings with females who have been raped. Never mind being of the knowledge that the child to be born is so deformed a life is not sustainable.........Nor being of the mind that to continue with the pregnacy will cost the Mother her life.

Sassy I am 100% behind you and your posts are excellent, erudite and informative as usual.

gerber wrote:

Sassy wrote:

According to this Judge, yes.   Stupid man!

We seem to have a mule within the thread.................  cannot believe what I have been reading.  Maybe needs to meet with desperate females of any age without support, money and no hope.....and as been well documented never had meetings with females who have been raped. Never mind being of the knowledge that the child to be born is so deformed a life is not sustainable.........Nor being of the mind that to continue with the pregnacy will cost the Mother her life.

Sassy I am 100% behind you and your posts are excellent, erudite and informative as usual.

Thanks Gerbs. Sometimes making a point is like swimming in treacle lol

gerber wrote:

Sassy wrote:

According to this Judge, yes.   Stupid man!

We seem to have a mule within the thread.................  cannot believe what I have been reading.  Maybe needs to meet with desperate females of any age without support, money and no hope.....and as been well documented never had meetings with females who have been raped. Never mind being of the knowledge that the child to be born is so deformed a life is not sustainable.........Nor being of the mind that to continue with the pregnacy will cost the Mother her life.

Sassy I am 100% behind you and your posts are excellent, erudite and informative as usual.

Not to mention failed contraception!
Should women be forced to have babies they desperately tried to avoid having?????

eddie wrote:

gerber wrote:

We seem to have a mule within the thread.................  cannot believe what I have been reading.  Maybe needs to meet with desperate females of any age without support, money and no hope.....and as been well documented never had meetings with females who have been raped. Never mind being of the knowledge that the child to be born is so deformed a life is not sustainable.........Nor being of the mind that to continue with the pregnacy will cost the Mother her life.

Sassy I am 100% behind you and your posts are excellent, erudite and informative as usual.

Not to mention failed contraception!
Should women be forced to have babies they desperately tried to avoid having?????

Seems so.....
maybe the answer is all females buy rabbits and the guys can go else where