Northern Ireland Woman Sentenced For Having Abortion Thanks To ‘Draconian’ Law

by Guest Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:56 am

A woman in the UK has been sentenced for the crime of having an abortion, which prosecutors have said was “in the public interest”.

After pundits across the world condemned absurd presidential candidate Donald Trump for saying women should face “some form of punishment” for having termination, a court in Northern Ireland has done just that, giving the 21-year-old a three-month prison sentence, suspended for two years. The woman, who cannot be named due to a court order, was reported to police by her housemates after she took an a pill to induce a miscarriage in July 2014, when she was 19.

The housemates, whom she barely knew, were “taken back by the seemingly blasé attitude” she showed when discussing how she could not afford to travel to England for an abortion and would instead order drugs online, Belfast Crown Court heard.

Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK where abortion remains illegal in nearly all circumstances. The Offences Against the Person Act 1861 sets the maximum punishment at life in prison.

Women can travel to mainland Britain for abortions but have to pay and the woman in this case could not afford to do so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/northern-ireland-abortion-woman_uk_57038203e4b0c5bd919ba1a6?utm_hp_ref=uk

This is appalling, showing once again how the absurdity of religion sways people to maintain disgusting laws

by Raggamuffin Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:01 am

Um ... you can get pills online to induce an abortion? Is anyone trying to stop that? That would circumvent the laws even in England.

by Guest Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:04 am

You miss the point, she would have had an abortion if she could afford to come to the UK, where its appalling she could not in Ireland.
She had little options based on finances.
So if in the UK she would have had an abortion on the NHS
This was denied to her based on backward religious laws

by Raggamuffin Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:08 am

Didge wrote:You miss the point, she would have had an abortion if she could afford to come to the UK, where its appalling she could not in Ireland.
She had little options based on finances.
So if in the UK she would have had an abortion on the NHS
This was denied to her based on backward religious laws

I think you've missed the point. You're condoning being able to get abortion pills online? If that's the case, why bother to have any laws at all? Why not just scrap the law and tell women they can just buy their abortion from a dodgy internet site? Still, it would save the NHS a lot of money I guess.

The women broke the law and was pretty laid back about it apparently.

by Guest Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:11 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:You miss the point, she would have had an abortion if she could afford to come to the UK, where its appalling she could not in Ireland.
She had little options based on finances.
So if in the UK she would have had an abortion on the NHS
This was denied to her based on backward religious laws

I think you've missed the point. You're condoning being able to get abortion pills online? If that's the case, why bother to have any laws at all? Why not just scrap the law and tell women they can just buy their abortion from a dodgy internet site? Still, it would save the NHS a lot of money I guess.

The women broke the law and was pretty laid back about it apparently.

Again you are missing the point.
She has no access in ireland even though its part of the Uk to have access to an abortion that every other nation in the UK has.
You are backing then a religious poor belief that denies a woman the right to an abortion.
She was left with little choice.
The fault lies with the system in Northern Ireland which again is based on religious beliefs.
That is wrong on every level.

by Raggamuffin Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:15 am

It's just another anti-religion thread then. Pass ...

by Guest Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:18 am

Raggamuffin wrote:It's just another anti-religion thread then. Pass ...

Anti-religion?

So you do not concern yourself that women in Northern ireland do not have the same equal rights under the law as in England, Wales, Scotland?
This is based on religious views Rags, which is appalling, because there is no evidence for any religious deity.
All there is, comes from books written down centuries ago.
So people lead their lives based on stories.

by Victorismyhero Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:It's just another anti-religion thread then. Pass ...

The problem is ragga...in this instance didge is right.....

by Victorismyhero Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:59 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:You miss the point, she would have had an abortion if she could afford to come to the UK, where its appalling she could not in Ireland.
She had little options based on finances.
So if in the UK she would have had an abortion on the NHS
This was denied to her based on backward religious laws

I think you've missed the point. You're condoning being able to get abortion pills online? If that's the case, why bother to have any laws at all? Why not just scrap the law and tell women they can just buy their abortion from a dodgy internet site? Still, it would save the NHS a lot of money I guess.

The women broke the law and was pretty laid back about it apparently.

well on another thread you seem to back eddies predilliction of obtaining pseudo medical mumbo jumbo from a dogdy internet site run by a world class fuckwit..... Northern Ireland Woman Sentenced For Having Abortion Thanks To ‘Draconian’ Law 2190311264

Northern Ireland Woman Sentenced For Having Abortion Thanks To ‘Draconian’ Law 2190311264

by Raggamuffin Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:25 pm

Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you've missed the point. You're condoning being able to get abortion pills online? If that's the case, why bother to have any laws at all? Why not just scrap the law and tell women they can just buy their abortion from a dodgy internet site? Still, it would save the NHS a lot of money I guess.

The women broke the law and was pretty laid back about it apparently.

well on another thread you seem to back eddies predilliction of obtaining pseudo medical mumbo jumbo from a dogdy internet site run by a world class fuckwit.....

I don't recall doing that, and in any case, how is that at all the same as actually buying pills from a dodgy site?

by Victorismyhero Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:32 pm

In principle no different...

neither should be an available option... Northern Ireland Woman Sentenced For Having Abortion Thanks To ‘Draconian’ Law 2190311264

however NI needs dragging kicking and screaming into the 21st century....

by Ben Reilly Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:49 pm

So Northern Ireland values life so much that they're sentencing this woman to death in prison. Nice!

by Guest Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:05 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:So Northern Ireland values life so much that they're sentencing this woman to death in prison. Nice!

With the recent upheaval about PP and the 3% of their funding being used on the Abortion Clinic...well, we are having such issues right here in the US of A; not that our women are being sentenced to legal action {not yet anyway} but their lives are being placed in danger because of the archaic/backward peddling laws.

'There are no words for the heartbreak': Mother forced to give birth at 22 weeks and watch baby die because of new abortion law

Danielle Deaver, 34, wanted an abortion after doctors told her that her baby had no chance of surviving when her waters broke at 22 weeks

A new law in Nebraska which dictates that you cannot have an abortion after 20 weeks meant Deaver had no choice but to have her baby

With her husband, Robb, the couple waited ten days until she was able to give birth to baby Elizabeth

The couple cradled and comforted their baby for 15 minutes before she died

By Daily Mail Reporter
Published: 09:21 EST, 6 April 2012 | Updated: 14:17 EST, 6 April 2012
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2126108/Nebraskas-new-abortion-law-forced-mother-birth-22-weeks-watch-baby-die.html#ixzz455OwtbaV

Or this one from Texas > > >

Pregnant, and Forced to Stay on Life Support
By MANNY FERNANDEZ and ERIK ECKHOLM JAN. 7,2014
Photo

Lynne Machado is the mother of Marlise Munoz, who is on life support in a Fort Worth hospital. Credit Rex C. Curry for The New York Times
FORT WORTH — The diagnosis was crushing and irrevocable. At 33, Marlise Munoz was brain-dead after collapsing on her kitchen floor in November from what appeared to be a blood clot in her lungs.
But as her parents and her husband prepared to say their final goodbyes in the intensive care unit at John Peter Smith Hospital here and to honor her wish not to be left on life support, they were stunned when a doctor told them the hospital was not going to comply with their instructions. Mrs. Munoz was 14 weeks pregnant, the doctor said, and Texas is one of more than two dozen states that prohibit, with varying degrees of strictness, medical officials from cutting off life support to a pregnant patient.
More than a month later, Mrs. Munoz remains connected to life-support machines on the third floor of the I.C.U., where a medical team monitors the heartbeat of the fetus, now in its 20th week of development. Her case has become a strange collision of law, medicine, the ethics of end-of-life care and the issues swirling around abortion — when life begins and how it should be valued.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/us/pregnant-and-forced-to-stay-on-life-support.html?_r=0

Northern Ireland Woman Sentenced For Having Abortion Thanks To ‘Draconian’ Law 2396444674

by Ben Reilly Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:32 pm

Yeah, our right-wing government is ruining lives with their abortion shenanigans. Former Gov. Rick Perry's draconian abortion law was clearly a huge boon to many of his wife's corporate clients, and one that he could sell to the regressive righties who all thought they'd get a big A-plus from Jesus Rolling Eyes

by eddie Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:18 am

This is pure backward thinking. Absolutely ridiculous.

by veya_victaous Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:18 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you've missed the point. You're condoning being able to get abortion pills online? If that's the case, why bother to have any laws at all? Why not just scrap the law and tell women they can just buy their abortion from a dodgy internet site? Still, it would save the NHS a lot of money I guess.

The women broke the law and was pretty laid back about it apparently.

well on another thread you seem to back eddies predilliction of obtaining pseudo medical mumbo jumbo from a dogdy internet site run by a world class fuckwit.....

I don't recall doing that, and in any case, how is that at all the same as actually buying pills from a dodgy site?

it wasn't a dogey site, the pills where what they were supposed to be.
and it is real pharmacetuicals availble in many nations..

just pointing out it is a fully legal site, this is globalisation and the fact that gov't cant just impose stuff like they used to. we can get around it if we want, and they have to go to great effort to prevent it.

by veya_victaous Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:21 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:So Northern Ireland values life so much that they're sentencing this woman to death in prison. Nice!

ummm

giving the 21-year-old a three-month prison sentence, suspended for two years.

not quite die in prison. Wink

.. she wont actually go to prison if she breaks no other laws for 2 years and if she goes it will be for 3 months

by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:23 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:So Northern Ireland values life so much that they're sentencing this woman to death in prison. Nice!

ummm

giving the 21-year-old a three-month prison sentence, suspended for two years.

not quite die in prison. .. she wont actually go to prison if she breaks no other laws for 2 years and if she goes it will be for 3 months

Whoops. I fixated on the part that said the maximum sentence is life in prison.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:26 am

Its still a criminal record, for where people can have an abortion on the NHS in the rest of the Uk.
So suspended or not, she has been convicted of a crime, when it should never have been a crime and that the facility should have been available in Northern ireland where women can then have abortions

Yet again religion trying to force their views found from books written centuries ago by men, who back then were miles removed from are progressive views today

by veya_victaous Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:35 am

Didge wrote:Its still a criminal record, for where people can have an abortion on the NHS in the rest of the Uk.
So suspended or not, she has been convicted of a crime, when it should never have been a crime and that the facility should have been available in Northern ireland where women can then have abortions

Yet again religion trying to force their views found from books written centuries ago by men, who back then were miles removed from are progressive views today

Actually pretty sure at least 75% of the shit we are doing now, including those pills, would be magic and get you burnt alive or some shit back then.
the people that wrote those fairytales could not even conceive fo the sort of medicine and technology we have today.. it is not even progressive views... we now literally have the power to play god and perform miricles on a daily basis.

it is just dumb humans being dumb

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:38 am

eddie wrote:This is pure backward thinking. Absolutely ridiculous.

Completely agree and its again a failing.

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:46 am

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't recall doing that, and in any case, how is that at all the same as actually buying pills from a dodgy site?

it wasn't a dogey site, the pills where what they were supposed to be.
and it is real pharmacetuicals availble in many nations..

just pointing out it is a fully legal site, this is globalisation and the fact that gov't cant just impose stuff like they used to. we can get around it if we want, and they have to go to great effort to prevent it.

I think the issue of being able to get such drugs online is a whole new subject actually. Prescription drugs are tightly controlled in the UK - you simply can't just buy then in Boots, you have to go to a doctor and he/she has to make a diagnosis and then prescribe a drug which is safe for the patient.

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:49 am

In the UK, I reckon that if the law was applied, a lot of women and doctors would be prosecuted for having or performing an abortion. I don't see the point in having a law at all if we just have abortion on demand, and I don't see the point of a woman having to get the agreement of two doctors if she can just get a pill online anyway. Perhaps they should scrap the law and tell women they can have an abortion any time they want without even seeing a doctor - just buy a pill online. If they die because they're not being supervised, or they have serious side effects, well that's their problem.

by Major Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:01 am

Why get pregnant in the first place necessitating a abortion?

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:01 am

Raggamuffin wrote:In the UK, I reckon that if the law was applied, a lot of women and doctors would be prosecuted for having or performing an abortion. I don't see the point in having a law at all if we just have abortion on demand, and I don't see the point of a woman having to get the agreement of two doctors if she can just get a pill online anyway. Perhaps they should scrap the law and tell women they can have an abortion any time they want without even seeing a doctor - just buy a pill online. If they die because they're not being supervised, or they have serious side effects, well that's their problem.

What backward thinking as per usual based on religious nonsense.

Again you are stating and deciding what a woman should do with her body, again imposing your beliefs onto others.
The point is she should have access as the rest of people do in the Uk and again it is daft man made beliefs that deny this
Again you fixate or the moot point blatantly ignoring the fact she should have access to an abortion on the health service

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:07 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:In the UK, I reckon that if the law was applied, a lot of women and doctors would be prosecuted for having or performing an abortion. I don't see the point in having a law at all if we just have abortion on demand, and I don't see the point of a woman having to get the agreement of two doctors if she can just get a pill online anyway. Perhaps they should scrap the law and tell women they can have an abortion any time they want without even seeing a doctor - just buy a pill online. If they die because they're not being supervised, or they have serious side effects, well that's their problem.

What backward thinking as per usual based on religious nonsense.

Again you are stating and deciding what a woman should do with her body, again imposing your beliefs onto others.
The point is she should have access as the rest of people do in the Uk and again it is daft man made beliefs that deny this
Again you fixate or the moot point blatantly ignoring the fact she should have access to an abortion on the health service

It's to do with the law, not religion. We have laws about abortion, which is pointless if women can just get a pill from the internet and induce an abortion with impunity.

Even if she had access, she would probably have been breaking the law anyway as it sounds like a baby would have been "inconvenient" for her. That is not legal grounds for an abortion.

Quite honestly, if they're not going to enforce the law here, I think they should just tell women to get their own abortions - it would save the NHS a lot of money and people wouldn't have to pay for women to get rid of their babies.

There was nothing backward about my post, and I'm not talking about religion.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:18 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

What backward thinking as per usual based on religious nonsense.

Again you are stating and deciding what a woman should do with her body, again imposing your beliefs onto others.
The point is she should have access as the rest of people do in the Uk and again it is daft man made beliefs that deny this
Again you fixate or the moot point blatantly ignoring the fact she should have access to an abortion on the health service

It's to do with the law, not religion. We have laws about abortion, which is pointless if women can just get a pill from the internet and induce an abortion with impunity.

Even if she had access, she would probably have been breaking the law anyway as it sounds like a baby would have been "inconvenient" for her. That is not legal grounds for an abortion.

Quite honestly, if they're not going to enforce the law here, I think they should just tell women to get their own abortions - it would save the NHS a lot of money and people wouldn't have to pay for women to get rid of their babies.

There was nothing backward about my post, and I'm not talking about religion.

Its to do with religion, as why else do you think abortions are criminal in Northern Ireland?

Again she would not have gotten the pill if abortions were available there, for the third time pointing out to you opn this thread.

Are you that slow?

Seriously

Can you not see if abortions were available she would have had no need to get a pill

Is that sinking in yet?

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:20 am

Then have abortion on demand and scrap the fucking law in the whole of the UK then. Write a letter to someone about it.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:22 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Then have abortion on demand and scrap the fucking law in the whole of the UK then. Write a letter to someone about it.

So again we see here you have a prejudice against abortion , which is really your issue which let me guess where that stems from eh?

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:26 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Then have abortion on demand and scrap the fucking law in the whole of the UK then. Write a letter to someone about it.

So again we see here you have a prejudice against abortion , which is really your issue which let me guess where that stems from eh?

Write a letter to the Government and ask them why they have abortion laws anyway? Ask them why they pretend to be so concerned about how far along a pregnancy is if they don't give a shit about unborn babies anyway.

Don't keep on about my religion - I'm talking about the law.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:32 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

So again we see here you have a prejudice against abortion , which is really your issue which let me guess where that stems from eh?

Write a letter to the Government and ask them why they have abortion laws anyway? Ask them why they pretend to be so concerned about how far along a pregnancy is if they don't give a shit about unborn babies anyway.

Don't keep on about my religion - I'm talking about the law.

Deflection alert

Again you avoided my last point, this is about people with backward religious beliefs imposing their views onto women

You clearly agree with that

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:34 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Write a letter to the Government and ask them why they have abortion laws anyway? Ask them why they pretend to be so concerned about how far along a pregnancy is if they don't give a shit about unborn babies anyway.

Don't keep on about my religion - I'm talking about the law.

Deflection alert

Again you avoided my last point, this is about people with backward religious beliefs imposing their views onto women

You clearly agree with that

I want to talk about the other issues related to this subject - which is the law and the purchasing of medication from the internet. You don't get to dictate what I talk about.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:35 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Deflection alert

Again you avoided my last point, this is about people with backward religious beliefs imposing their views onto women

You clearly agree with that

I want to talk about the other issues related to this subject - which is the law and the purchasing of medication from the internet. You don't get to dictate what I talk about.

Yeah the law should be changed to come into line with the rest of the UK with progression.

You want to ignore that she should legally have been able to have an abortion.

I get to talk about what I want to talk about which is what everyone else is doing

You want to talk about a deflection

Knock yourself out,

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:37 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I want to talk about the other issues related to this subject - which is the law and the purchasing of medication from the internet. You don't get to dictate what I talk about.

Yeah the law should be changed to come into line with the rest of the UK with progression.

You want to ignore that she should legally have been able to have an abortion.

I get to talk about what I want to talk about which is what everyone else is doing

You want to talk about a deflection

Knock yourself out,

According to the law in England, she probably wouldn't have been entitled to one anyway if the pregnancy was not harming her mental health.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:41 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

Yeah the law should be changed to come into line with the rest of the UK with progression.

You want to ignore that she should legally have been able to have an abortion.

I get to talk about what I want to talk about which is what everyone else is doing

You want to talk about a deflection

Knock yourself out,

According to the law in England, she probably wouldn't have been entitled to one anyway if the pregnancy was not harming her mental health.

That is just nonsense again.

You are again not factoring if abortion would have been available where she lives

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:43 am

Didge wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

According to the law in England, she probably wouldn't have been entitled to one anyway if the pregnancy was not harming her mental health.

That is just nonsense again.

You are again not factoring if abortion would have been available where she lives

You clearly don't know what the law says. An abortion would not necessarily have been legally available if the law in NI was the same as the rest of the UK.

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:45 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge wrote:

That is just nonsense again.

You are again not factoring if abortion would have been available where she lives

You clearly don't know what the law says. An abortion would not necessarily have been legally available if the law in NI was the same as the rest of the UK.

Again you are not factoring if it had been legal in northern Ireland
You need to make your case why you think it would be illegal and it will come back again to factoring if it had been legal

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:47 am

The people who reported her to the police clearly support the law ...

by Guest Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:48 am

Raggamuffin wrote:The people who reported her to the police clearly support the law ...

So your belief then is Saudi is right to execute apostates if people back the law then?

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