Vigilante Family Jailed For Torturing Couple

by Guest Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

A judge describes the violence used in the severe beatings of a man and pregnant woman as "reminiscent of a Hollywood film".

Eleven members of the same family kidnapped, tortured and severely beat two people they wrongly suspected of killing a 75-year-old woman in Norwich.

The family members were sentenced at Norwich Crown Court in what police have described as the worst case of vigilantism ever seen.

The two victims, a man and a woman who was seven months pregnant at the time, were held against their will and beaten by the group. They have been given new identities and cannot be named for legal reasons.

Judge Stephen Holt told the court the group had kidnapped and interrogated their victims in "scenes reminiscent of a Hollywood film".

The attacks took place after Gertrude Frankham, the widow of traveller's rights campaigner Eli Frankham, was found dead in December 2012.

She died in her bed, and the death was ruled to be the result of natural causes.

However, the 11 members of Mrs Frankham's family erroneously believed she had been murdered.

They then kidnapped and interrogated their victims in an attempt to extract confessions to the supposed killing.

Six members of Mrs Frankham's family were found guilty of various offences after a trial earlier this year.

Police seized camcorder footage of one of the beatings - which the attackers had hoped to use to force officers to prosecute the couple for murder.

Speaking after the group was sentenced, Superintendent Dennis Lacey said the case was the worst instance of vigilantism he had ever known.

"Despite there never being any evidence of murder they decided to take the law into their own hands through violence and intimidation," he said.

"In 27 years in the police, I have never seen anything like this in terms of the number of people involved and the seriousness of the assaults.

"Vigilantism cannot be tolerated and the sentences handed down reflect the unnecessary level of violence used."

The family members have been sentenced to terms in jail of between 18 months and 12 years.

Others convicted include Thomas Chilton, Edward Dolan Jnr, Vanessa Frankham, Diane Evans, Jesse Frankham, Laura Ann Dolan, Wayne Dolan and Edward Dolan Snr

They include Mrs Frankham's daughters Violet Chilton, Sheila Conboy and Valerie Harris, along with some of her grandchildren and great grandchildren.

Five others admitted their involvement.

The court heard how the two victims were individually dragged to a warehouse and made to sit in a chair as they were surrounded and beaten in April last year.

During the attack on the woman, Conboy called police to say she had confessed to murder.

The male victim was also told that if he went to police his family would be killed while he was forced to watch, the trial heard.

http://news.sky.com/story/1236649/vigilante-family-jailed-for-torturing-couple

It doesn't say if the woman they beat lost her baby. FGS!

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:50 am

well It would seem wierd to a simpleton. someone who's life is balck and white...with no shades of grey...

you are a far R/W equivalent of didge...

hostile...rude....

have you read the other part of this thread??

insight??

try using it and seeing why I treat All idiots left right center or progressive so nicely...

i have NO time for dumbf**ks

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:52 am

victorisnotamused wrote:well It would seem wierd to a simpleton. someone who's life is balck and white...with no shades of grey...

you are a far R/W equivalent of didge...

hostile...rude....

have you read the other part of this thread??

insight??

try using it and seeing why I treat All idiots left right center or progressive so nicely...

i have NO time for dumbf**ks

You're the one excusing a bunch of twats who beat up a pregnant woman. I'd say that makes you the dumb one.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:55 am

erm...what part of " whislt i dont think what they did was right and the sentences are actually too soft" failed to penetrate your empty little head?????
go back to playing with barbie while your brain matures.....

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:56 am

Oh dear. Insight, absolutely none.

What they did was terrible, we know that.

What was behind it was that they did not believe the police that their grandmother had died naturally, because the police hardly ever investigate crimes against travellers and fob them off. So they thought they were being fobbed off and tried to prove that this unlucky couple had killed their Gran. Ergo, if they had thought the police were on their side, were doing their best for them, it wouldn't have happened. With that in mind, if the police start treating travellers in the same way they treat the rest of the public, travellers might not feel they had to sort things out for themselves and might believe what they are told.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:57 am

victorisnotamused wrote:erm...what part of " whislt i dont think what they did was right and the sentences are actually too soft" failed to penetrate your empty little head?????
go back to playing with barbie while your brain matures.....

You also sound vaguely mad ...

To even try to explain why these people did this, and blame it on "contempt" from society is just sick.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:59 am

victorisnotamused wrote:erm...what part of " whislt i dont think what they did was right and the sentences are actually too soft" failed to penetrate your empty little head?????
go back to playing with barbie while your brain matures.....

Pointless Victor.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:00 am

Sassy wrote:Oh dear. Insight, absolutely none.

What they did was terrible, we know that.

What was behind was that they did not believe the police that their grandmother had died naturally, because the police hardly ever investigate crimes against travellers and fob them off. So they thought they were being fobbed off and tried to prove that this unlucky couple had killed their Gran. Ergo, if they had thought the police were on their side, were doing their best for them, it wouldn't have happened. With that in mind, if the police start treating travellers in the same way they treat the rest of the public, travellers might not feel they had to sort things out for themselves and might believe what they are told.

What a load of crap. You're also justifying what they did. Perhaps they should have read the post mortem report before they decided to torture two people. Basically, they just thought they were above the law and could do what they liked.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:05 am

So not looking at the cause of crime, and dealing with that as WELL as the crime itself is right is it...now you see why I have contempt for the R/W....no different to the "progressives..just nastier all gob and no sense.....

society commits what amounts to a crime against a group of people...so those people react and commit further (and in this case worse crime) so reasonably we punish the group...and then fail to deal with the crime that society does.

OHHHH thats a great idea and a good way to make sure it wont happen again isnt it????

If you dont explain and understand WHY something happens ....you cant even attempt prevent it happening again....

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:06 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:Oh dear. Insight, absolutely none.

What they did was terrible, we know that.

What was behind was that they did not believe the police that their grandmother had died naturally, because the police hardly ever investigate crimes against travellers and fob them off. So they thought they were being fobbed off and tried to prove that this unlucky couple had killed their Gran. Ergo, if they had thought the police were on their side, were doing their best for them, it wouldn't have happened. With that in mind, if the police start treating travellers in the same way they treat the rest of the public, travellers might not feel they had to sort things out for themselves and might believe what they are told.

What a load of crap. You're also justifying what they did. Perhaps they should have read the post mortem report before they decided to torture two people. Basically, they just thought they were above the law and could do what they liked.

No they beleived the law was lying to them.....some what different......
YOU are part of the problem...not the cure......

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:09 am

victorisnotamused wrote:So not looking at the cause of crime, and dealing with that as WELL as the crime itself is right is it...now you see why I have contempt for the R/W....no different to the "progressives..just nastier all gob and no sense.....

society commits what amounts to a crime against a group of people...so those people react and commit further (and in this case worse crime) so reasonably we punish the group...and then fail to deal with the crime that society does.

OHHHH thats a great idea and a good way to make sure it wont happen again isnt it????

If you dont explain and understand WHY something happens ....you cant even attempt prevent it happening again....

The cause of the crime is some mad bastards thinking it was fine and dandy to beat two people up. Finding excuses for them is just stupid and weak.

I think that this family should be treated with contempt. The best way to prevent it happening again is to make it clear that people like that are not above the law and will go to prison if they do something like that.

By the way, it doesn't sound as if they did much travelling either.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:10 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What a load of crap. You're also justifying what they did. Perhaps they should have read the post mortem report before they decided to torture two people. Basically, they just thought they were above the law and could do what they liked.

No they beleived the law was lying to them.....some what different......
YOU are part of the problem...not the cure......

There were two post mortems FFS. A post mortem is not conducted by the police.

I didn't make them beat someone up - the trouble with people like you is that it's never the perpetrator's fault, it's always someone else who "made" them do it.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:12 am

Oh hell, no wonder nothing gets any better. Just keep on doing the same shit things to people, they then do shit things to other people and you decide that's the right way to go. Insight zero, understanding zero, social awareness zero, hope for the future zero, just round and round we go.

As Victor said, you are part of the problem.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:12 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:So not looking at the cause of crime, and dealing with that as WELL as the crime itself is right is it...now you see why I have contempt for the R/W....no different to the "progressives..just nastier all gob and no sense.....

society commits what amounts to a crime against a group of people...so those people react and commit further (and in this case worse crime) so reasonably we punish the group...and then fail to deal with the crime that society does.

OHHHH thats a great idea and a good way to make sure it wont happen again isnt it????

If you dont explain and understand WHY something happens ....you cant even attempt prevent it happening again....

The cause of the crime is some mad bastards thinking it was fine and dandy to beat two people up. Finding excuses for them is just stupid and weak.

no weakness is not admitting that something you are part of has failed...society

I think that this family should be treated with contempt. The best way to prevent it happening again is to make it clear that people like that are not above the law and will go to prison if they do something like that.

I think that was done...and as i said...not sufficiently done....DOH!!!!

By the way, it doesn't sound as if they did much travelling either.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:14 am

Sassy wrote:Oh hell, no wonder nothing gets any better. Just keep on doing the same shit things to people, they then do shit things to other people and you decide that's the right way to go. Insight zero, understanding zero, social awareness zero, hope for the future zero, just round and round we go.

As Victor said, you are part of the problem.

Well things won't get better if you go around excusing people for torturing pregnant women. You're virtually saying that's it's OK to do that because they're travellers.

What was done to this family? Could you clarify that?

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:14 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

No they beleived the law was lying to them.....some what different......
YOU are part of the problem...not the cure......

There were two post mortems FFS. A post mortem is not conducted by the police.

I didn't make them beat someone up - the trouble with people like you is that it's never the perpetrator's fault, it's always someone else who "made" them do it.

Nobody 'made them do it'. Because of past treatment the stage was set for them to do it. They could have chosen not to. But the longer the stage is set the same way, more and more will chose the route. So you set the stage differently and choice is different.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:15 am

Sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

There were two post mortems FFS. A post mortem is not conducted by the police.

I didn't make them beat someone up - the trouble with people like you is that it's never the perpetrator's fault, it's always someone else who "made" them do it.

Nobody 'made them do it'. Because of past treatment the stage was set for them to do it. They could have chosen not to. But the longer the stage is set the same way, more and more will chose the route. So you set the stage differently and choice is different.

What past treatment? Have you read something else? They were told the woman was not murdered, and they chose not to believe that. That's not anyone else's fault, it's their fault.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:16 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:Oh hell, no wonder nothing gets any better. Just keep on doing the same shit things to people, they then do shit things to other people and you decide that's the right way to go. Insight zero, understanding zero, social awareness zero, hope for the future zero, just round and round we go.

As Victor said, you are part of the problem.

Well things won't get better if you go around excusing people for torturing pregnant women. You're virtually saying that's it's OK to do that because they're travellers.

What was done to this family? Could you clarify that?

You have no understanding at all. Not one jot. It isn't what was done to this family, it is what is done to travellers per say, and as this family came from a people who fought for traveller's rights, they would be very well aware of how travellers as a whole are treated.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:18 am

Sassy wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well things won't get better if you go around excusing people for torturing pregnant women. You're virtually saying that's it's OK to do that because they're travellers.

What was done to this family? Could you clarify that?

You have no understanding at all. Not one jot. It isn't what was done to this family, it is what is done to travellers per say, and as this family came from a people who fought for traveller's rights, they would be very well aware of how travellers as a whole are treated.

Oh crap. I can't be doing with people like you - excusing what they did to a pregnant woman. They might have killed the unborn baby. You're an enabler of people like that because you always excuse them.

How are travellers treated anyway? Do they pay tax at all?

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:20 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

No they beleived the law was lying to them.....some what different......
YOU are part of the problem...not the cure......

There were two post mortems FFS. A post mortem is not conducted by the police.

No you simpleton it isnt...but it IS conducted by a body which is PART OF THE LAW PROCESS

I didn't make them beat someone up -

No you are right...it didnt...it didnt drag them there and make em do it....But it contributed to the state of mind that justified their actions to themselves

the trouble with people like you is that it's never the perpetrator's fault,

another imbecile that "adds interpretation and false attribution" to a post..where in anything I said do I imply its anything but the fault of the perp....If I thought that i wouldnt want harsher sentences for them....would I???

it's always someone else who "made" them do it.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:21 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:

You have no understanding at all. Not one jot. It isn't what was done to this family, it is what is done to travellers per say, and as this family came from a people who fought for traveller's rights, they would be very well aware of how travellers as a whole are treated.

Oh crap. I can't be doing with people like you - excusing what they did to a pregnant woman. They might have killed the unborn baby.

****WARNING APPEAL TO EMOTION ALERT *******

You're an enabler of people like that because you always excuse them.

How are travellers treated anyway? Do they pay tax at all?

diversion alert...female extremist R/W didge at work.......

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:21 am

Would you like to point out where I have excused it?

It utterly pointless talking to people like you, because you just see top surface and never want to change the cause so that it doesn't happen again.

Basically thick as shit.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:22 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh crap. I can't be doing with people like you - excusing what they did to a pregnant woman. They might have killed the unborn baby. You're an enabler of people like that because you always excuse them.

How are travellers treated anyway? Do they pay tax at all?

diversion alert...female extremist R/W didge at work.......

I know, and sad to say, a lot thicker than Didge as well, which is really bad.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:23 am

Sassy wrote:Would you like to point out where I have excused it?

It utterly pointless talking to people like you, because you just see top surface and never want to change the cause so that it doesn't happen again.

Basically thick as shit.

You've made excuses for them for the last few posts - bleating on about how some other travellers were treated, as if that excused them. You would rather stick up for some abusers than a little unborn baby - you're sick.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:24 am

Sassy wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:

diversion alert...female extremist R/W didge at work.......

I know, and sad to say, a lot thicker than Didge as well, which is really bad.

You really think you're someone don't you? You really think you're always right. I've never come across anyone as arrogant and up themselves as you on any forum.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:Would you like to point out where I have excused it?

It utterly pointless talking to people like you, because you just see top surface and never want to change the cause so that it doesn't happen again.

Basically thick as shit.

You've made excuses for them for the last few posts - bleating on about how some other travellers were treated, as if that excused them. You would rather stick up for some abusers than a little unborn baby - you're sick.

I know amoeba with a higher IQ than you...
and reptiles with more insight

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:27 am

You're both completely mad. ://?roflmao?/:

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:27 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:

I know, and sad to say, a lot thicker than Didge as well, which is really bad.

You really think you're someone don't you? You really think you're always right. I've never come across anyone as arrogant and up themselves as you on any forum.

you have now.... Twisted Evil

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:28 am

Raggamuffin wrote:You're both completely mad. ://?roflmao?/:

well mad is better than sad....

and another divert.......

nothing like the cretin brigade hammered :/pwn://:

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:29 am

This is a wind up, right? Nobody would excuse such a dreadful crime, unless they were on a wind up or were completely off their heads.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:30 am

Jeez, she's worse than I thought, brain transplant required.

Night Victor.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:31 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:You're both completely mad. ://?roflmao?/:

well mad is better than sad....

and another divert.......

nothing like the cretin brigade hammered :/pwn://:

Two against one is you "hammering" me is it? You can only function when you're tag-teaming with Sassy. Laughing

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:32 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Sassy wrote:Would you like to point out where I have excused it?

It utterly pointless talking to people like you, because you just see top surface and never want to change the cause so that it doesn't happen again.

Basically thick as shit.

You've made excuses for them for the last few posts - bleating on about how some other travellers were treated, as if that excused them. You would rather stick up for some abusers than a little unborn baby - you're sick.

Don't try pretending you care for kids,you were more than happy to direct insults and names at my toddler earlier...

And if society and the authorities were to take the traveling communities more seriously and not treat them like shit in general then this could all have been avoided.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:32 am

Sassy wrote:Jeez, she's worse than I thought, brain transplant required.

Night Victor.

Tag-teamer - you can't stand on your own two feet, like most cowards. lol!

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You've made excuses for them for the last few posts - bleating on about how some other travellers were treated, as if that excused them. You would rather stick up for some abusers than a little unborn baby - you're sick.

Don't try pretending you care for kids,you were more than happy to direct insults and names at my toddler earlier...

And if society and the authorities were to take the traveling communities more seriously and not treat them like shit in general then this could all have been avoided.

Oooh, here's another one of Sassy's little gang. PMd you did she? Razz

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:33 am

Anyway, stuff travellers who break the law and beat people up. There are no excuses, despite what you three say.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:35 am

Oh no i can deal with your sort alone quite well....

firstly explain who is excusing what and, more importantly how....????
along with examples of said "excusing" from the above thread

I will await you input with baited breath (and no thats not a typo) Evil or Very Mad

but it can wait till morning...its 01:34....and I have something getting me out of bed early.....

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:36 am

victorisnotamused wrote:Oh no i can deal with your sort alone quite well....

firstly explain who is excusing what and, more importantly how....????
along with examples of said "excusing" from the above thread

I will await you input with baited breath (and no thats not a typo)
but it can wait till morning...its 01:34....and I have something getting me out of bed early.....

You can't though - you've been tag-teaming with Sassy. You can't stand on your own two feet at all.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:37 am

You deserved all you got there from Victor and Sassy, your a born instigator, and I think Victor went easy on your considering your cheek.

You've followed me and sassy around earlier tonight looking for bother.

Do the right thing and go to bed.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:38 am

just follow the instructions...I made it simple for an empty headed little girl like you.....

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:40 am

Joy Division wrote:You deserved all you got there from Victor and Sassy, your a born instigator, and I think Victor went easy on your considering your cheek.

You've followed me and sassy around earlier tonight looking for bother.

Do the right thing and go to bed.

I don't care what they said - they're both clearly mad, and at least I didn't need to call for back up. Laughing

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:40 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, stuff travellers who break the law and beat people up. There are no excuses, despite what you three say.

No she did not, but you have been openly abusive as usual and your not a match for either sassy or Victor , you really should just call it a day.

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:40 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:Anyway, stuff travellers who break the law and beat people up. There are no excuses, despite what you three say.

No she did not, but you have been openly abusive as usual and your not a match for either sassy or Victor , you really should just call it a day.

Still smarting are you? Good. cheers

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:41 am

victorisnotamused wrote:just follow the instructions...I made it simple for an empty headed little girl like you.....

OK, old man. Laughing

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:42 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Joy Division wrote:You deserved all you got there from Victor and Sassy, your a born instigator, and I think Victor went easy on your considering your cheek.

You've followed me and sassy around earlier tonight looking for bother.

Do the right thing and go to bed.

I don't care what they said - they're both clearly mad, and at least I didn't need to call for back up.

This is not dogs you know, we don't all just wade in to innocent posters, you created this mess Rags, you earlier tried to play sassy and Victor off against each other ...bad mistake.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:44 am

right...i will follow this up in the morning...like i say...time for a few (and I mean a FEW) zeds....

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:44 am

Awww, look at the three of you. You can't function on your own can you? Razz

Typical lefties - blame "society" for what individuals do. You all need to get a grip and get some common sense.

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:45 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

No she did not, but you have been openly abusive as usual and your not a match for either sassy or Victor , you really should just call it a day.

Still smarting are you? Good.

I'm not smarting Rags, but trust me..your just making an arse of yourself.

That's certainly how it looks from here, while you failed to listen to what Sassy and Victor had to say,,,

I would see it a bit different if you listened THEN rambled on but you didn't, you just waded in with both feet again.

You've got a real temper!

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:46 am

victorisnotamused wrote:right...i will follow this up in the morning...like i say...time for a few (and I mean a FEW) zeds....

Don't rush back on my account in the morning - I have better things to do than read the mad rantings of some daft old man like you. ::D::

by Guest Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:47 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Awww, look at the three of you. You can't function on your own can you?

Typical lefties - blame "society" for what individuals do. You all need to get a grip and get some common sense.

Look at the state of you, What a Face

...your gonna have a breakdown hen, Rolling Eyes

by Raggamuffin Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:47 am

Joy Division wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Still smarting are you? Good.

I'm not smarting Rags, but trust me..your just making an arse of yourself.

That's certainly how it looks from here, while you failed to listen to what Sassy and Victor had to say,,,

I would see it a bit different if you listened THEN rambled on but you didn't, you just waded in with both feet again.

You've got a real temper!

Ooooh, you are smarting, I can tell. You leapt in here as soon as you saw a disagreement. ://?roflmao?/:

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