Another Expert Admits That ADHD Is Not Real - It's Just A Description For Naughty Children

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:11 pm

31st March 2014

Please discuss.

Dr Bruce Perry said most people displayed signs of the condition at some point in their lives.

He also said psychostimulant drugs, such as Ritalin, used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder may have long-term adverse effects.

He said treating children’s hyperactivity with drugs was similar to giving a heart attack patient painkillers – it ignores the cause of the problem, which could be as simple as an iron deficiency.

Dr Perry, a neuroscientist at the ChildTrauma Academy in Houston, Texas, will meet Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt and Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith today at a lecture he is giving, hosted by charity the Early Intervention Foundation.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2592641/Expert-claims-ADHD-not-real-disease-fits-two-criteria.html#ixzz2xYN7nXpK

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:16 pm

I urge people to follow the link and read the comments at the bottom of this article.

The only people cheering on ADHD are the parents claiming benefits for it.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:17 pm

Nowhere in the story does it say anything about "naughty" behavior. It says ADHD is this:

'a group of behavioural symptoms that include inattentiveness, hyperactivity and impulsiveness'.
Common symptoms include a short attention span, restlessness or constant fidgeting and being easily distracted, the health service says.
Many people with ADHD also have learning difficulties and other problems such as sleep disorders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2592641/Expert-claims-ADHD-not-real-disease-fits-two-criteria.html#ixzz2xYOo6zGO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Be nice if you didn't lie to us about what was in links, BA.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:20 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:Nowhere in the story does it say anything about "naughty" behavior. It says ADHD is this:

'a group of behavioural symptoms that include inattentiveness, hyperactivity and impulsiveness'.
Common symptoms include a short attention span, restlessness or constant fidgeting and being easily distracted, the health service says.
Many people with ADHD also have learning difficulties and other problems such as sleep disorders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2592641/Expert-claims-ADHD-not-real-disease-fits-two-criteria.html#ixzz2xYOo6zGO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Be nice if you didn't lie to us about what was in links, BA.

Lie?

Lie?

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:21 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:Nowhere in the story does it say anything about "naughty" behavior. It says ADHD is this:

'a group of behavioural symptoms that include inattentiveness, hyperactivity and impulsiveness'.
Common symptoms include a short attention span, restlessness or constant fidgeting and being easily distracted, the health service says.
Many people with ADHD also have learning difficulties and other problems such as sleep disorders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2592641/Expert-claims-ADHD-not-real-disease-fits-two-criteria.html#ixzz2xYOo6zGO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Be nice if you didn't lie to us about what was in links, BA.

Lie?

Lie?

Yes, you misrepresented the content of the article, Andy. That's called "lying."

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:23 pm

Also, "not real" is not the same thing as "not really caused by the commonly-accepted theoretical cause." There is a huge difference between a group of real symptoms caused by something other than what has been commonly accepted as the cause, and something that people just made up. Obviously.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:23 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Lie?

Lie?

Yes, you misrepresented the content of the article, Andy. That's called "lying."

Maybe you misinterpreted things Ben - where did I lie?

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:28 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Lie?

Lie?

Yes, you misrepresented the content of the article, Andy. That's called "lying."

Maybe you misinterpreted things Ben - where did I lie?

I just got done demonstrating where you lied, but if I must repeat it in order for you to understand, you made two lies in your headline -- once where you claimed that an expert says ADHD is "not real" (he actually attributes the symptoms to something other than the commonly accepted cause) and where you made it out as if the expert had made any reference to "naughty" behavior. He actually used the clinical expressions of the behavior, such as being restless, that one would expect from a professional.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Maybe you misinterpreted things Ben - where did I lie?

I just got done demonstrating where you lied, but if I must repeat it in order for you to understand, you made two lies in your headline -- once where you claimed that an expert says ADHD is "not real" (he actually attributes the symptoms to something other than the commonly accepted cause) and where you made it out as if the expert had made any reference to "naughty" behavior. He actually used the clinical expressions of the behavior, such as being restless, that one would expect from a professional.

I'll let you off just this once. Unfortunately you have again been listening to other posters and made your mind up before thinking. If I was "making it out" that the expert said "it's just a description for naughty children" I would have put it in this: " " - that denotes that I am quoting somebody.

But, it's only a forum and we're only human - mistakes will be made.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:32 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Maybe you misinterpreted things Ben - where did I lie?

I just got done demonstrating where you lied, but if I must repeat it in order for you to understand, you made two lies in your headline -- once where you claimed that an expert says ADHD is "not real" (he actually attributes the symptoms to something other than the commonly accepted cause) and where you made it out as if the expert had made any reference to "naughty" behavior. He actually used the clinical expressions of the behavior, such as being restless, that one would expect from a professional.

I'll let you off just this once. Unfortunately you have again been listening to other posters and made your mind up before thinking. If I was "making it out" that the expert said "it's just a description for naughty children" I would have put it in this: " " - that denotes that I am quoting somebody.

But, it's only a forum and we're only human - mistakes will be made.

You are letting me off of exactly two things, jack and shit, internet tough guy. What a joke ...

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:36 pm

Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

by Lone Wolf Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:42 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

Yes, you misrepresented the content of the article, Andy. That's called "lying."

Maybe you misinterpreted things Ben - where did I lie?

YOUR very headline is a big "lie" right from the get-go, BigAndy !!!

YOUR absolute declaration that ADHD "Is Not Real.." (i.e. that it doesn't even exist..), isn't supported absolutely by your supposed evidence.. ::resmahauth::

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:51 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

I'll let you off just this once. Unfortunately you have again been listening to other posters and made your mind up before thinking. If I was "making it out" that the expert said "it's just a description for naughty children" I would have put it in this: " " - that denotes that I am quoting somebody.

But, it's only a forum and we're only human - mistakes will be made.

You are letting me off of exactly two things, jack and shit, internet tough guy. What a joke ...

I really don't know what your problem with me is Ben.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:52 pm

eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

No Eddie, Andy has made these bollocks self believed nonsensical claims that ADHD, autism and Aspergers don't exist, coupled with extremely racist views and slagging off unemployed folk on benefits and the disabled...

As much a so get along with Andy, he is full of nonsense , lies and hate when it comes to those people in the above categories I mentioned.

Apart from that Andy's alright Smile

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:54 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

I'll let you off just this once. Unfortunately you have again been listening to other posters and made your mind up before thinking. If I was "making it out" that the expert said "it's just a description for naughty children" I would have put it in this: " " - that denotes that I am quoting somebody.

But, it's only a forum and we're only human - mistakes will be made.

You are letting me off of exactly two things, jack and shit, internet tough guy. What a joke ...

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:55 pm

Joy Division wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

No Eddie, Andy has made these bollocks self believed nonsensical claims that ADHD, autism and Aspergers don't exist, coupled with extremely racist views and slagging off unemployed folk on benefits and the disabled...

As much a so get along with Andy, he is full of nonsense , lies and hate when it comes to those people in the above categories I mentioned.

Apart from that Andy's alright

Concentrate on one issue at a time - this time it's ADHD JD.

And forget about me - I'm not really here (that's especially for Eli Smile

)

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:30 pm

Joy Division wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

No Eddie, Andy has made these bollocks self believed nonsensical claims that ADHD, autism and Aspergers don't exist, coupled with extremely racist views and slagging off unemployed folk on benefits and the disabled...

As much a so get along with Andy, he is full of nonsense , lies and hate when it comes to those people in the above categories I mentioned.

Apart from that Andy's alright

So if people think it's bollocks argue the case - don't make it about the poster!

The problem with this forum is this; no one is able to debate without getting personal.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:39 pm

eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

I was addressing the way he misrepresented the article's statements. I'm not overly fond of running a forum that publishes lies.

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

I was addressing the way he misrepresented the article's statements. I'm not overly fond of running a forum that publishes lies.

So amend the heading to suit yourself then.
You do attack the poster though Ben, and rarely address his actual stories.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:46 pm

Exactly, he's not saying it doesn't exist, he's saying the causes for it should be investigated before they hand out drugs, as he specifically says 'it ignores the cause of the problem, which could be as simple as an iron deficiency'.

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:53 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

I was addressing the way he misrepresented the article's statements. I'm not overly fond of running a forum that publishes lies.

So amend the heading to suit yourself then.
You do attack the poster though Ben, and rarely address his actual stories.

I could do that, yes -- but BA would just change it back, as he insists upon doing with other headlines he writes (including reverting my edits of his spelling "Muslim" and "Islam" in all lowercase) and I'm not interested in escalating things.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:23 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Ben I'm not at all sure why you have to pounce on Andy's threads and try to discredit him and treat him like he's some sort of forum- leper!

Not everything he says is correct, it's his opinion.
Just like you have yours.

I never see you comment on his threads, you simply attack his views.

That's not called debate. That's called bully-boy behaviour.

As for the article, I think some children and adults, do indeed have some kind of ADHD.
I am pretty sure though, that it's easier for some parents to just lay claim to the fact their child has 'something wrong' when really, it is just bad parenting.

I was addressing the way he misrepresented the article's statements. I'm not overly fond of running a forum that publishes lies.

This is the kind of thing your friend Lone Wolf does - calls people liars when in fact they are giving their view or opinion. If you disagree with them that doesn't make them a liar.

My opinion is that ADHD doesn't exist. If in the next 24 hours you find conclusively that it does exist, I'm still not a liar - I would be wrong.

Stop calling people liars, Ben and Lone Wolf - it is an opinion forum, not a court of law!

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:29 pm

The lie is in misrepresenting what the expert said.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:42 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

No Eddie, Andy has made these bollocks self believed nonsensical claims that ADHD, autism and Aspergers don't exist, coupled with extremely racist views and slagging off unemployed folk on benefits and the disabled...

As much a so get along with Andy, he is full of nonsense , lies and hate when it comes to those people in the above categories I mentioned.

Apart from that Andy's alright

So if people think it's bollocks argue the case - don't make it about the poster!

The problem with this forum is this; no one is able to debate without getting personal.

Debate what?...someone claiming that disorders like autism , Aspergers etc don't exist?

When in fact it is proven they do, and I've had this with Andy before...my wee lad who is four is autistic and still can't talk, but uses makaton and displays many autistic traits....

Putting up headlines which read there is evidence autism , Aspergers and now ADHD don't exist...

Absolute shit and an insult toward many with these disorders , and it seems sadly that Andy will stoop to any length and say my bairn is faking autism and many other kids too...

Don't say you never inferred or said that Andy, I had this out with you before ,your poor and nowadays with so many comments and threads like this I'm betting used to to being diss appoints at Andy...

And with such ridiculous claims made by Andy almost daily now, there is no pint arguing with Andy...apparently he knows better than the specialists at hospital or specialist educational staff who treat folk with disorders like these everyday.

A good enough lad in other other ways , but on disorders affecting people, the unemployed , black people or immigrants...
Very poor sport.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:45 pm

I will not mention your child JD.

And I will only debate what is in the news - I don't make these threads "willy nilly" as you do with your religious ones which clearly target certain individuals.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:48 pm

You manipulate what is in the news, the same as you manipulated this. The 'expert' did not say the condition didn't exist, he said that there might be another cause for it, and before showing chemicals down a child's throat, all other causes should be looked at. So you lied in the title.

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:49 pm

Joy Division wrote:
eddie wrote:

So if people think it's bollocks argue the case - don't make it about the poster!

The problem with this forum is this; no one is able to debate without getting personal.

Debate what?...someone claiming that disorders like autism , Aspergers etc don't exist?

When in fact it is proven they do, and I've had this with Andy before...my wee lad who is four is autistic and still can't talk, but uses makaton and displays many autistic traits....

Putting up headlines which read there is evidence autism , Aspergers and now ADHD don't exist...

Absolute shit and an insult toward many with these disorders , and it seems sadly that Andy will stoop to any length and say my bairn is faking autism and many other kids too...

Don't say you never inferred or said that Andy, I had this out with you before ,your poor and nowadays with so many comments and threads like this I'm betting used to to being diss appoints at Andy...

And with such ridiculous claims made by Andy almost daily now, there is no pint arguing with Andy...apparently he knows better than the specialists at hospital or specialist educational staff who treat folk with disorders like these everyday.

A good enough lad in other other ways , but on disorders affecting people, the unemployed , black people or immigrants...
Very poor sport.

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:52 pm

Eddie, BA doesn't give a damn what you, me or the rest of the world thinks. He doesn't care about evidence, he just wants to make out that people try and prove their children are disabled to get more benefits. Now, it's all very well saying argue the post, not the poster, but in BAs case it is pointless, because he has a subtext.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:53 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

Debate what?...someone claiming that disorders like autism , Aspergers etc don't exist?

When in fact it is proven they do, and I've had this with Andy before...my wee lad who is four is autistic and still can't talk, but uses makaton and displays many autistic traits....

Putting up headlines which read there is evidence autism , Aspergers and now ADHD don't exist...

Absolute shit and an insult toward many with these disorders , and it seems sadly that Andy will stoop to any length and say my bairn is faking autism and many other kids too...

Don't say you never inferred or said that Andy, I had this out with you before ,your poor and nowadays with so many comments and threads like this I'm betting used to to being diss appoints at Andy...

And with such ridiculous claims made by Andy almost daily now, there is no pint arguing with Andy...apparently he knows better than the specialists at hospital or specialist educational staff who treat folk with disorders like these everyday.

A good enough lad in other other ways , but on disorders affecting people, the unemployed , black people or immigrants...
Very poor sport.

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

I think thats more or less what Andy has been saying.
ADHD is massively over diagnosed, its not autism

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Sassy wrote:Eddie, BA doesn't give a damn what you, me or the rest of the world thinks. He doesn't care about evidence, he just wants to make out that people try and prove their children are disabled to get more benefits. Now, it's all very well saying argue the post, not the poster, but in BAs case it is pointless, because he has a subtext.

I think Andy is saying it's massively over-diagnosed?
Ok not at all sure he's saying it's all about the benefits. I've seen him say that parents should concentrate on better diets and less sugary crap, for example.

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

I think thats more or less what Andy has been saying.
ADHD is massively over diagnosed, its not autism

Lol I just said that ^^^^ Laughing

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:35 pm

Andy denies autism exists either!

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 10:33 pm

Andy denies every bloody thing exists. However, there are a lot of things he shows symptoms of Wink

by Ben Reilly Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:03 pm

Um, Eddie and Nems? BA said for himself above:

"My opinion is that ADHD doesn't exist."

He even said that if I find evidence it does exist, it doesn't show him to be a liar, just wrong.

Except that he's been corrected on this issue before and he keeps up ~~being wrong~~ lying.

He keeps saying it doesn't exist when neither of the experts he's cited have said anything like that; they say it is likely caused by different things in different patients and can't be treated with a one-size-fits-all approach.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:06 pm

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

I think thats more or less what Andy has been saying.
ADHD is massively over diagnosed, its not autism

..I know that Nems as my wee lad has autism...but Andy recently claimed autism did not exist either.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:09 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

Debate what?...someone claiming that disorders like autism , Aspergers etc don't exist?

When in fact it is proven they do, and I've had this with Andy before...my wee lad who is four is autistic and still can't talk, but uses makaton and displays many autistic traits....

Putting up headlines which read there is evidence autism , Aspergers and now ADHD don't exist...

Absolute shit and an insult toward many with these disorders , and it seems sadly that Andy will stoop to any length and say my bairn is faking autism and many other kids too...

Don't say you never inferred or said that Andy, I had this out with you before ,your poor and nowadays with so many comments and threads like this I'm betting used to to being diss appoints at Andy...

And with such ridiculous claims made by Andy almost daily now, there is no pint arguing with Andy...apparently he knows better than the specialists at hospital or specialist educational staff who treat folk with disorders like these everyday.

A good enough lad in other other ways , but on disorders affecting people, the unemployed , black people or immigrants...
Very poor sport.

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

What have you seen in children with ADHD eddie?

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:17 pm

Tbh Andy, nothing I can 100% put my finger on, and that's being truly honest. Like I said, ADHD is quite a grey area.

I'm going to speak basically and simply too; they just seem "different" to others in the class; more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes.

Autism is much, much easier to spot.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:18 pm

eddie wrote:Tbh Andy, nothing I can 100% put my finger on, and that's being truly honest.

I'm going to speak basically and simply too; they just seem "different" to others in the class; more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes.

Autism is much, much easier to spot.

Does being more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes guarantee ADHD?

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:21 pm

eddie wrote:
Joy Division wrote:

Debate what?...someone claiming that disorders like autism , Aspergers etc don't exist?

When in fact it is proven they do, and I've had this with Andy before...my wee lad who is four is autistic and still can't talk, but uses makaton and displays many autistic traits....

Putting up headlines which read there is evidence autism , Aspergers and now ADHD don't exist...

Absolute shit and an insult toward many with these disorders , and it seems sadly that Andy will stoop to any length and say my bairn is faking autism and many other kids too...

Don't say you never inferred or said that Andy, I had this out with you before ,your poor and nowadays with so many comments and threads like this I'm betting used to to being diss appoints at Andy...

And with such ridiculous claims made by Andy almost daily now, there is no pint arguing with Andy...apparently he knows better than the specialists at hospital or specialist educational staff who treat folk with disorders like these everyday.

A good enough lad in other other ways , but on disorders affecting people, the unemployed , black people or immigrants...
Very poor sport.

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

...kids get a proper assessment Eds, by three health professionals to diagnose of they have autism, my wee lad was around 2 1/2 when diagnosed, so in the end it's the health professionals who will either give or not give a label.

If a child has autism,especially on the more severe end, it's not behavioral therapy , more like speech therapy.

A child who has a certain level of autism thinks very differently from us and often have little sense of danger, they often need to learn to interact with others as best they can....

Eddie,just a quick way of letting you know how they think...if you say it's raining cats and dogs( even to an autistic adult) then it's likely they would be looking up to the sky for cats and dogs.

The last thing an autistic child or adult needs is to think he or she is being reprimanded.

They need understood , not the sense of being punished because of the way they are.

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:22 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
eddie wrote:Tbh Andy, nothing I can 100% put my finger on, and that's being truly honest.

I'm going to speak basically and simply too; they just seem "different" to others in the class; more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes.

Autism is much, much easier to spot.

Does being more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes guarantee ADHD?

No it doesn't.
But ADHD is also an umbrella for lots of others disabilities like Dyslexia, Dyspraxia and so on.

I had to do a very intense course on people with learning disabilities and tbh, I always found ADHD quite hard to fathom.
I questioned my tutor on it quite a bit.

What I learned, did help to spot those types of behaviour in children within the classroom setting though.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:24 pm

Joy Division wrote:
eddie wrote:

If Andy is saying it doesn't exist full stop, then I will disagree too. Because it does.
I've seen it firsthand and worked with children in schools with autism.
ADHD is a very grey area.

Some children do display behaviour that is A-typical with ADHD; or mild autism.

The trouble is, many parents will just be too quick to throw the labels out there without really knowing or trying any other form of behavioural therapy.

...kids get a proper assessment Eds, by three health professionals to diagnose of they have autism, my wee lad was around 2 1/2 when diagnosed, so in the end it's the health professionals who will either give or not give a label.

If a child has autism,especially on the more severe end, it's not behavioral therapy , more like speech therapy.

A child who has a certain level of autism thinks very differently from us and often have little sense of danger, they often need to learn to interact with others as best they can....

Eddie,just a quick way of letting you know how they think...if you say it's raining cats and dogs( even to an autistic adult) then it's likely they would be looking up to the sky for cats and dogs.

As they get older - do they realise it doesn't rain cats and dogs?

The last thing an autistic child or adult needs is to think he or she is being reprimanded.

I'd say they should be reprimanded the same as any other child - treating them differently will make them act differently.

They need understood , not the sense of being punished because of the way they are.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:26 pm

eddie wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:

Does being more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes guarantee ADHD?

No it doesn't.
But ADHD is also an umbrella for lots of others disabilities like Dyslexia, Dyspraxia and so on.

I had to do a very intense course on people with learning disabilities and tbh, I always found ADHD quite hard to fathom.
I questioned my tutor on it quite a bit.

What I learned, did help to spot those types of behaviour in children within the classroom setting though.

Well - what types of behaviour? Are you saying you were taught how to spot children who are more antsy, less focused, less able to control their moods and attitudes?

And if so, were you told that if you see that behaviour, it means they have ADHD?

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:31 pm

No Andy, we weren't there to diagnose behaviour more to keep an eye out and liaise with teachers etc

If I remember correctly, they aren't diagnosed properly until they're about seven or eight for ADHD and they are seen by several specialists.

It's hard to,put your finger on; they are just not like,the other children. They're social skills aren't the same, empathy levels like knowing when others are upset for example.
Even three to,four year olds will react if someone is getting upset with them - they may not care particularly - but with an ADHD sufferer, they don't even notice as they can't read another person's facial expressions.

by Guest Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:35 pm

eddie wrote:No Andy, we weren't there to diagnose behaviour more to keep an eye out and liaise with teachers etc

If I remember correctly, they aren't diagnosed properly until they're about seven or eight for ADHD and they are seen by several specialists.

It's hard to,put your finger on; they are just not like,the other children. They're social skills aren't the same, empathy levels like knowing when others are upset for example.
Even three to,four year olds will react if someone is getting upset with them - they may not care particularly - but with an ADHD sufferer, they don't even notice as they can't read another person's facial expressions.

But all of those things are learnt from the people around you as you grow up so maybe there is a problem there, and the people you learn most things from pre-school age are your parents?

by eddie Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:38 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
eddie wrote:No Andy, we weren't there to diagnose behaviour more to keep an eye out and liaise with teachers etc

If I remember correctly, they aren't diagnosed properly until they're about seven or eight for ADHD and they are seen by several specialists.

It's hard to,put your finger on; they are just not like,the other children. They're social skills aren't the same, empathy levels like knowing when others are upset for example.
Even three to,four year olds will react if someone is getting upset with them - they may not care particularly - but with an ADHD sufferer, they don't even notice as they can't read another person's facial expressions.

But all of those things are learnt from the people around you as you grow up so maybe there is a problem there, and the people you learn most things from pre-school age are your parents?

That is also true Andy, can't deny that. But by the age of seven you,should be developing some of your own personality traits.

I'm not saying ADHD does or doesn't exist. I'm not sure to be honest. I know autism definitely does: it's an obvious one.
ADHD seems to display signs of slight autism which is why I always found it a grey area.

by Ben Reilly Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:50 am

eddie wrote:
BigAndy9 wrote:
eddie wrote:No Andy, we weren't there to diagnose behaviour more to keep an eye out and liaise with teachers etc

If I remember correctly, they aren't diagnosed properly until they're about seven or eight for ADHD and they are seen by several specialists.

It's hard to,put your finger on; they are just not like,the other children. They're social skills aren't the same, empathy levels like knowing when others are upset for example.
Even three to,four year olds will react if someone is getting upset with them - they may not care particularly - but with an ADHD sufferer, they don't even notice as they can't read another person's facial expressions.

But all of those things are learnt from the people around you as you grow up so maybe there is a problem there, and the people you learn most things from pre-school age are your parents?

That is also true Andy, can't deny that. But by the age of seven you,should be developing some of your own personality traits.

I'm not saying ADHD does or doesn't exist. I'm not sure to be honest. I know autism definitely does: it's an obvious one.
ADHD seems to display signs of slight autism which is why I always found it a grey area.

If my adult friend, who's never been on benefits and who lives across the street from me here in the U.S., was diagnosed with ADHD in her early twenties, can it be real then?

Is it possible that, like heart disease and cancer, there can be more than one cause and more than one symptom of ADHD?

Is it acceptable that if someone writes in a headline, "ADHD is not real," and that's not what was said in the article, and the person has previously been corrected and exposed to convincing evidence that ADHD is real -- just perhaps more complicated than was originally thought -- that the person is a liar?

Is it acceptable that in pointing out that deception, I am not being a bully, but simply pointing out the truth?

by Lone Wolf Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:24 am

lovedust wrote:

Andy denies autism exists either!

"Big"Andy also likes to deny that he's either a liar, a fringe loonie, a racist or a xenophobe, too...

And he seems to believe that all welfare recipients are "scroungers" (his words)..

Especially if they are disabled or have non-English surnames !

God help the foreign-born cripples suffering under Andy's grand scheme of things..

B'Andy's idea of Paradise would be seeing all pensioners and single parents turned out onto the streets...

by nicko Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:38 am

look no further than beekeeper for proof adhd exists.

by Guest Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:42 am

Some will be selective as to what conditions or illnesses are genuine though Rolling Eyes

by Guest Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:23 pm

I think I asked this earlier - do kids "grow out of it"?

Is it normal for kids with ADHD to improve as they get older?

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