Would you rather each race stayed in their homeland?

First topic message reminder :

I am asking this question as I want to know WHY each poster who is against multiculturalism, would prefer England to stay English.

Would you prefer 100% ALL English?
Perhaps a ratio of 20/80? 95/5?

Is it a certain race or all races?

Lastly, WHY would it make your world a better place?

(Can we keep away from boring and long-arse C&P's and have OPINIONS please?)

I like a little mix, bit of this and a bit of that. I'm not into plain boiled rice and a little seasoning is best.
However, IMO i think the  borders should've been closed years ago (though how do you deny entry to a really needy family with children?) because we are very, very overcrowded!
I would prefer more Englishness than not and I would hate to lose it altogether.
I do love a piece of culture but I don't want to drown in other cultures because I like my rice to taste like rice and not be so heavily spiced and seasoned that I can't taste that it was rice in the first place.

I love all cultures and I like peace. But I love my country too.
Peace out.
Rice is nice finely spiced 

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

At this point in my life I can honestly say I feel totally cool with a bunch of black guys; oriental Asians or white Brits, or a mix haha   

I just think back to my best friends in high school -- my very best friend was of mixed white and Hispanic ancestry, two good friends were Vietnamese (they were brothers), a guy whose parents came from Mexico, a black guy, of course several white people ... that was just normal, we didn't even think about it at the time. We'd sometimes go to richer or poorer schools and they weren't as diverse as us, but we were all working class and got along with everyone, at least in terms of racial stuff.

In the lunch room, there were different races at the popular table, different races at the nerd table, different races at the scary-kid table -- people were in cliques based on their personality and interests more than anything else. Diversity is how I was raised and it feels way more normal and natural to me than people of the same skin color flocking together

Yeah I agree people flocking together and not mixing do risk developing racial animosities. It is actually really silly but something we are going to have for a long time.

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:

I have never known any different les, I was born and bred in London.
My first few boyfriends were black, mixed race and one Portuguese (boy was he hot!)

I still would like to tighten the borders though. We are becoming overcrowded and I do worry for my children's future.

As for feeling weird if I was with a bunch of people who,were the same ethnicity as me..... Erm no? Why would I?
That's just plain stupid and sounds like a bit of over-egging the pudding to me lol

To be fair that last part was Ben, and in his defense if that is how it is for him in Texas who are we to question; for me though of course I feel totally normal among all white people too   

I addressed the over crowding myth above, if we solved the real economic problems in this country over crowding would no more be even considered a problem any more than it is(n't) in South Korea and Japan.

To be fair though Eds your OP lays out a pretty direct and abrupt question   

I did edit to address Ben sorry les.

Yes saw the crowding myth and I concede your reply and knowledge on that one x

Yes it was direct and abrupt? But sometime it's the best way   

Sassy wrote:Do you know where we were on the list of the top populations by density last year?   53rd

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density

It's absolutely rubbish to say we are overcrowded.   We have some areas that are overcrowded, but that is because we are stupid enough not to plan where industry, jobs and housing for the population goes and how it is planned.   And we don't give those problems enough resources.

Exactly Sass; this is what I was saying in a post I made earlier. As the economic situation improves and there is more jobs then problems of lack of opportunity will disappear- I don't see why that kind of progressive outlook is seen as worse than just closing the door and saying 'we ain't going anywhere fast- shut the door!'   

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

To be fair that last part was Ben, and in his defense if that is how it is for him in Texas who are we to question; for me though of course I feel totally normal among all white people too   

I addressed the over crowding myth above, if we solved the real economic problems in this country over crowding would no more be even considered a problem any more than it is(n't) in South Korea and Japan.

To be fair though Eds your OP lays out a pretty direct and abrupt question   

I did edit to address Ben sorry les.

Yes saw the crowding myth and I concede your reply and knowledge on that one x

Yes it was direct and abrupt? But sometime it's the best way   

pffft I saw you edited and was too lazy to change my post   

Haha, well you certainly sparked debate   

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

I have never known any different les, I was born and bred in London.
My first few boyfriends were black, mixed race and one Portuguese (boy was he hot!)

I still would like to tighten the borders though. We are becoming overcrowded and I do worry for my children's future.

Ben: As for feeling weird if I was with a bunch of people who,were the same ethnicity as me..... Erm no? Why would I?
That's just plain stupid and sounds like a bit of over-egging the pudding to me lol

To be fair, I wasn't asking if you felt natural in those situations, I was just saying how I feel

Are you telling me,'if you were in a bar and you looked round and for some bizarre reason, found that it was all whites in there, you'd feel weird??? It would feel "unnatural"?
Can you expand on that? It sounds a tad odd to me  :\\:[: 

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:


I did edit to address Ben sorry les.

Yes saw the crowding myth and I concede your reply and knowledge on that one x

Yes it was direct and abrupt? But sometime it's the best way   

pffft I saw you edited and was too lazy to change my post   

Haha, well you certainly sparked debate   

Lazy lion!!   

Gotta spark debate, it's a debate forum.   
This question though was following on from another thread which, for the life of me, I can't find now pffffft

Sassy wrote:Probably because my earliest memories are living with all races and going to all kinds of festivals etc (earliest is probably at a Chinese New Year celebration when I was under 5 and it stayed in my memory).   I had a Malay boyfriend when I was 17 etc etc.   I couldn't stand just living with one type of people, it would be so damn boring. According to Smelly it's because we know nothing about diversity that we feel like this, actually, as the last few posts have shown, it's because we have experienced REAL diversity.

Did you have a relative in the army Sass?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

At this point in my life I can honestly say I feel totally cool with a bunch of black guys; oriental Asians or white Brits, or a mix haha   

I just think back to my best friends in high school -- my very best friend was of mixed white and Hispanic ancestry, two good friends were Vietnamese (they were brothers), a guy whose parents came from Mexico, a black guy, of course several white people ... that was just normal, we didn't even think about it at the time. We'd sometimes go to richer or poorer schools and they weren't as diverse as us, but we were all working class and got along with everyone, at least in terms of racial stuff.

In the lunch room, there were different races at the popular table, different races at the nerd table, different races at the scary-kid table -- people were in cliques based on their personality and interests more than anything else. Diversity is how I was raised and it feels way more normal and natural to me than people of the same skin color flocking together

Same here
I would be weird to be around just one race all the time   

Yeah, ok ok ...i get it now....you are all so bedazzled with the supposed benefits which may well be real to you but you are blind to the other side....
now didge the pedant is out of the way with his waffle finally quiet for the night, lets just look at what I have ben trying to say for the past few days....and not being allowed to for didges noise

I choose halal as an EXAMPLE...not the sole reason OK...got it???

For whatever reason, I find halal killing repugnant, now that could be for any number of reasons...

I could consider it spiritually unclean...as they find non halal...remember...I'm an independant druid
I could consider it inhumane (lets ditch the nonsense about killing per se being inhumane) as a method (and I'm MORE inclined to beleive the BVA than any number of so called "studies" backed by religious interests)
or I could just dislike it....

the reason is irrelevant

HOWEVER...I really dont care if thats what "THEY" want...as I have said before i dont really care if they eat one another, shag ducks or worship the greater walrus of outer wisbech

BUT I dont want Halal, and especially not halal fed to me on the sly.


I want it clearly marked as such SO I CAN HAVE MY CHOICE

this however is not done....why not...

this may disturb you but

thanks to the "progressives" weak willed subservient blindness to "multiculturalism at all costs" It was decided that to so mark meat would result in halal sales falling, because people WOULD make the choice.
this would mean that those who require it as part of their religion would have to pay more for it (market forces at work) This it was deemed was "unfair"....

so now i'm one step further from hitler...NOT for wanting to deny a culture its ridiculous trappings, but for not wanting those trappings forced on me.....

and this has been talked about in the press a few years ago, so I'm NOT "making it up" and No Im not going to do your homework for you....

This is the blatent hypocrisy of the "multiculturist"
equity works only one way...

so I'll ask you...where is MY equity????

just bear in mind that this is only one small issue amongst many....

Victor

I concur.

Oh my, what a rant


Jesus, take your anger out on your pillow son, at least it will give your arm a rest

so...where is "my" equity"??

victorisnotamused wrote:Yeah, ok ok ...i get it now....you are all so bedazzled with the supposed benefits which may well be real to you but you are blind to the other side....
now didge the pedant is out of the way with his waffle finally quiet for the night, lets just look at what I have ben trying to say for the past few days....and not being allowed to for didges noise

I choose halal as an EXAMPLE...not the sole reason OK...got it???

For whatever reason, I find halal killing repugnant, now that could be for any number of reasons...

I could consider it spiritually unclean...as they find non halal...remember...I'm an independant druid
I could consider it inhumane (lets ditch the nonsense about killing per se being inhumane) as a method (and I'm MORE inclined to beleive the BVA than any number of so called "studies" backed by religious interests)
or I could just dislike it....

the reason is irrelevant

HOWEVER...I really dont care if thats what "THEY" want...as I have said before i dont really care if they eat one another, shag ducks or worship the greater walrus of outer wisbech

BUT I dont want Halal, and especially not halal fed to me on the sly.


I want it clearly marked as such SO I CAN HAVE MY CHOICE

this however is not done....why not...

this may disturb you but

thanks to the "progressives" weak willed subservient blindness to "multiculturalism at all costs" It was decided that to so mark meat would result in halal sales falling, because people WOULD make the choice.
this would mean that those who require it as part of their religion would have to pay more for it (market forces at work) This it was deemed was "unfair"....

so now i'm one step further from hitler...NOT for wanting to deny a culture its ridiculous trappings, but for not wanting those trappings forced on me.....

and this has been talked about in the press a few years ago, so I'm NOT "making it up" and No Im not going to do your homework for you....

This is the blatent hypocrisy of the "multiculturist"
equity works only one way...

so I'll ask you...where is MY equity????

just bear in mind that this is only one small issue amongst many....

Well vic, I don't agree with halal being unmarked either; as you say though that is just one problem, I dare say I'd agree with you on a number of others- especially where immigrants from Islamic and African nations are concerned.

HOWEVER; I have noticed you frequently asking for the benefits of multiculturalism, and you have rarely been satisfied with any of the answers given. Yet, I don't really think we can see 'multiculturalism' as something forced on us and more a term used to describe the situation we have; and we have had, increasingly more so, since the 1950s.

Multiculturalism describes a society that is 'multicultural' (sorry for stating the obvious here...) and the ideal then is to have a situation where all those of different cultures integrate and get along. And for the most part it works; in cities where there are many cultures mixing daily I find them far more tolerant, not tolerant actually, such a condescending term- accepting is better; than some suburbs and rural areas.

Immigration of course would be happening whether or not we called the result 'multiculturalism'; so there is little point asking directly for the benefits of it in any case.

I and others however are with you in opposing certain things, such as the packaging of halal meat- there is a bad side to some people coming here. But the solution is still not to just pull up the drawbridge.

and answer the point didge...without the waffle...and this and that and anything but the point...

i dont deny it them...but why cant I have MY choice.....
is my choice less important
do you think that your precious multiculturalism is more important than "my" choice (in which case where are you prepared to stop?)

or what?

I never asked for it to be banned...merely clearly marked...

???????????????????????????????

Well Victor again you are a hypocrite in poor form, you have moral standards on how an animal is killed yet hunt, such moral standards conflict, when hunting can cause an animal to die not quickly, so how can you chose to condone a method when yours has the biggest chance of suffering to an animal?

That is illogical, so you want choice over what animal has died the most unpleasant and you advocate hunting.

Behave, you have no case

eddie wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:

I have never known any different les, I was born and bred in London.
My first few boyfriends were black, mixed race and one Portuguese (boy was he hot!)

I still would like to tighten the borders though. We are becoming overcrowded and I do worry for my children's future.

Ben: As for feeling weird if I was with a bunch of people who,were the same ethnicity as me..... Erm no? Why would I?
That's just plain stupid and sounds like a bit of over-egging the pudding to me lol

To be fair, I wasn't asking if you felt natural in those situations, I was just saying how I feel

Are you telling me,'if you were in a bar and you looked round and for some bizarre reason, found that it was all whites in there, you'd feel weird??? It would feel "unnatural"?
Can you expand on that? It sounds a tad odd to me  :\\:[: 

Sure, I would wonder why it was all whites, to be honest. You just don't see that a lot in my part of the world. I'd feel the same way if it was all any race, though.

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:Yeah, ok ok ...i get it now....you are all so bedazzled with the supposed benefits which may well be real to you but you are blind to the other side....
now didge the pedant is out of the way with his waffle finally quiet for the night, lets just look at what I have ben trying to say for the past few days....and not being allowed to for didges noise

I choose halal as an EXAMPLE...not the sole reason OK...got it???

For whatever reason, I find halal killing repugnant, now that could be for any number of reasons...

I could consider it spiritually unclean...as they find non halal...remember...I'm an independant druid
I could consider it inhumane (lets ditch the nonsense about killing per se being inhumane) as a method (and I'm MORE inclined to beleive the BVA than any number of so called "studies" backed by religious interests)
or I could just dislike it....

the reason is irrelevant

HOWEVER...I really dont care if thats what "THEY" want...as I have said before i dont really care if they eat one another, shag ducks or worship the greater walrus of outer wisbech

BUT I dont want Halal, and especially not halal fed to me on the sly.


I want it clearly marked as such SO I CAN HAVE MY CHOICE

this however is not done....why not...

this may disturb you but

thanks to the "progressives" weak willed subservient blindness to "multiculturalism at all costs" It was decided that to so mark meat would result in halal sales falling, because people WOULD make the choice.
this would mean that those who require it as part of their religion would have to pay more for it (market forces at work) This it was deemed was "unfair"....

so now i'm one step further from hitler...NOT for wanting to deny a culture its ridiculous trappings, but for not wanting those trappings forced on me.....

and this has been talked about in the press a few years ago, so I'm NOT "making it up" and No Im not going to do your homework for you....

This is the blatent hypocrisy of the "multiculturist"
equity works only one way...

so I'll ask you...where is MY equity????

just bear in mind that this is only one small issue amongst many....

Well vic, I don't agree with halal being unmarked either; as you say though that is just one problem, I dare say I'd agree with you on a number of others- especially where immigrants from Islamic and African nations are concerned.

HOWEVER; I have noticed you frequently asking for the benefits of multiculturalism, and you have rarely been satisfied with any of the answers given. Yet, I don't really think we can see 'multiculturalism' as something forced on us and more a term used to describe the situation we have; and we have had, increasingly more so, since the 1950s.

Multiculturalism describes a society that is 'multicultural' (sorry for stating the obvious here...) and the ideal then is to have a situation where all those of different cultures integrate and get along. And for the most part it works; in cities where there are many cultures mixing daily I find them far more tolerant, not tolerant actually, such a condescending term- accepting is better; than some suburbs and rural areas.

Immigration of course would be happening whether or not we called the result 'multiculturalism'; so there is little point asking directly for the benefits of it in any case.

I and others however are with you in opposing certain things, such as the packaging of halal meat- there is a bad side to some people coming here. But the solution is still not to just pull up the drawbridge.

Elizal

Please please please don't use that term again....................  it is all cloggy said tonight " Pulling up the drawbridge "

Not once, not twice not even three times, I lost count and turned over.............

Will get me throwing something at you like my slipper....

xx

Eilzel wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:Yeah, ok ok ...i get it now....you are all so bedazzled with the supposed benefits which may well be real to you but you are blind to the other side....
now didge the pedant is out of the way with his waffle finally quiet for the night, lets just look at what I have ben trying to say for the past few days....and not being allowed to for didges noise

I choose halal as an EXAMPLE...not the sole reason OK...got it???

For whatever reason, I find halal killing repugnant, now that could be for any number of reasons...

I could consider it spiritually unclean...as they find non halal...remember...I'm an independant druid
I could consider it inhumane (lets ditch the nonsense about killing per se being inhumane) as a method (and I'm MORE inclined to beleive the BVA than any number of so called "studies" backed by religious interests)
or I could just dislike it....

the reason is irrelevant

HOWEVER...I really dont care if thats what "THEY" want...as I have said before i dont really care if they eat one another, shag ducks or worship the greater walrus of outer wisbech

BUT I dont want Halal, and especially not halal fed to me on the sly.


I want it clearly marked as such SO I CAN HAVE MY CHOICE

this however is not done....why not...

this may disturb you but

thanks to the "progressives" weak willed subservient blindness to "multiculturalism at all costs" It was decided that to so mark meat would result in halal sales falling, because people WOULD make the choice.
this would mean that those who require it as part of their religion would have to pay more for it (market forces at work) This it was deemed was "unfair"....

so now i'm one step further from hitler...NOT for wanting to deny a culture its ridiculous trappings, but for not wanting those trappings forced on me.....

and this has been talked about in the press a few years ago, so I'm NOT "making it up" and No Im not going to do your homework for you....

This is the blatent hypocrisy of the "multiculturist"
equity works only one way...

so I'll ask you...where is MY equity????

just bear in mind that this is only one small issue amongst many....

Well vic, I don't agree with halal being unmarked either; as you say though that is just one problem, I dare say I'd agree with you on a number of others- especially where immigrants from Islamic and African nations are concerned.

HOWEVER; I have noticed you frequently asking for the benefits of multiculturalism, and you have rarely been satisfied with any of the answers given. Yet, I don't really think we can see 'multiculturalism' as something forced on us and more a term used to describe the situation we have; and we have had, increasingly more so, since the 1950s.

Multiculturalism describes a society that is 'multicultural' (sorry for stating the obvious here...) and the ideal then is to have a situation where all those of different cultures integrate and get along. And for the most part it works; in cities where there are many cultures mixing daily I find them far more tolerant, not tolerant actually, such a condescending term- accepting is better; than some suburbs and rural areas.

Immigration of course would be happening whether or not we called the result 'multiculturalism'; so there is little point asking directly for the benefits of it in any case.

I and others however are with you in opposing certain things, such as the packaging of halal meat- there is a bad side to some people coming here. But the solution is still not to just pull up the drawbridge.

agreed Eil, totally...just because i find most of the "benefits" that have been claimed as "peripheral" ie, music..(and I STILL dont care what anyone thinks eastern music sounds like a train wreck in a tin can factory goddamn it ...there are 8 notes in an octave NOT 10...) food etc doesnt mean that others cant enjoy them (whatever floats yer boat as they say)
and I have to admit to the odd trip to the chinese takeaway when i'm feeling idle....BUT the fact remains these are indeed mere peripherals.
the more important stuff get shoved to the background, and yet...we could still have all that (and probably more) if things were a bit different....

dont pull up the drawbridge....just put a few chicanes on it to slow things down....and make and ENFORCE a few more sensible rules to make things actually work..

like 1 or 2 years to learn good CLEAR english....Particularly in professionals or out you go....
like break a criminal law with more than a 1 year minimum sentence....and home you go..no ifs no buts no human rights ...OUT...GONE...we dont want you , you abused our welcome
like we have certain customary ways of doing all sorts of things....if you wan to come ...fine...great...BUT you absolutely accept those ways.....

and so on...

then I would have little to complain about....

gerber wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Well vic, I don't agree with halal being unmarked either; as you say though that is just one problem, I dare say I'd agree with you on a number of others- especially where immigrants from Islamic and African nations are concerned.

HOWEVER; I have noticed you frequently asking for the benefits of multiculturalism, and you have rarely been satisfied with any of the answers given. Yet, I don't really think we can see 'multiculturalism' as something forced on us and more a term used to describe the situation we have; and we have had, increasingly more so, since the 1950s.

Multiculturalism describes a society that is 'multicultural' (sorry for stating the obvious here...) and the ideal then is to have a situation where all those of different cultures integrate and get along. And for the most part it works; in cities where there are many cultures mixing daily I find them far more tolerant, not tolerant actually, such a condescending term- accepting is better; than some suburbs and rural areas.

Immigration of course would be happening whether or not we called the result 'multiculturalism'; so there is little point asking directly for the benefits of it in any case.

I and others however are with you in opposing certain things, such as the packaging of halal meat- there is a bad side to some people coming here. But the solution is still not to just pull up the drawbridge.

Elizal

Please please please don't use that term again....................  it is all cloggy said tonight " Pulling up the drawbridge "

Not once, not twice not even three times, I lost count and turned over.............

Will get me throwing something at you like my slipper....

xx

I will catch the debate tomorrow haha.

The term is apt; it captures the little England mentality; echoes of Churchill's 'we will defend our island' only totally out of context of course, since Churchill of course wanted a 'sort of' USE (United States of Europe)- but no, for conservative little Englanders we are a small island fortress who wants to be white a god fearing all; and indeed to pull up that old drawbridge   

Remember when it used to make people proud that others wanted to emigrate to their country?   

Eilzel wrote:

gerber wrote:


Elizal

Please please please don't use that term again....................  it is all cloggy said tonight " Pulling up the drawbridge "

Not once, not twice not even three times, I lost count and turned over.............

Will get me throwing something at you like my slipper....

xx

I will catch the debate tomorrow haha.

The term is apt; it captures the little England mentality; echoes of Churchill's 'we will defend our island' only totally out of context of course, since Churchill of course wanted a 'sort of' USE (United States of Europe)- but no, for conservative little Englanders we are a small island fortress who wants to be white a god fearing all; and indeed to pull up that old drawbridge   

A brilliantly precise post Eilzel,

victorisnotamused wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Well vic, I don't agree with halal being unmarked either; as you say though that is just one problem, I dare say I'd agree with you on a number of others- especially where immigrants from Islamic and African nations are concerned.

HOWEVER; I have noticed you frequently asking for the benefits of multiculturalism, and you have rarely been satisfied with any of the answers given. Yet, I don't really think we can see 'multiculturalism' as something forced on us and more a term used to describe the situation we have; and we have had, increasingly more so, since the 1950s.

Multiculturalism describes a society that is 'multicultural' (sorry for stating the obvious here...) and the ideal then is to have a situation where all those of different cultures integrate and get along. And for the most part it works; in cities where there are many cultures mixing daily I find them far more tolerant, not tolerant actually, such a condescending term- accepting is better; than some suburbs and rural areas.

Immigration of course would be happening whether or not we called the result 'multiculturalism'; so there is little point asking directly for the benefits of it in any case.

I and others however are with you in opposing certain things, such as the packaging of halal meat- there is a bad side to some people coming here. But the solution is still not to just pull up the drawbridge.

agreed Eil, totally...just because i find most of the "benefits" that have been claimed as "peripheral" ie, music..(and I STILL dont care what anyone thinks   eastern music sounds like a train wreck in a tin can factory goddamn it ...there are 8 notes in an octave NOT 10...) food etc doesnt mean that others cant enjoy them (whatever floats yer boat as they say)
and I have to admit to the odd trip to the chinese takeaway when i'm feeling idle....BUT the fact remains these are indeed mere peripherals.
the more important stuff get shoved to the background, and yet...we could still have all that (and probably more) if things were a bit different....

dont pull up the drawbridge....just put a few chicanes on it to slow things down....and make and ENFORCE a few more sensible rules to make things actually work..

like 1 or 2 years to learn good CLEAR english....Particularly in professionals or out you go....
like break a criminal law with more than a 1 year minimum sentence....and home you go..no ifs no buts no human rights ...OUT...GONE...we dont want you , you abused our welcome
like we have certain customary ways of doing all sorts of things....if you wan to come ...fine...great...BUT you absolutely accept those ways.....

and so on...

then I would have little to complain about....

Assuming you mean 2 years to learn English after they arrive? I actually agree with everything you say; and think it crucial if multiculturalism is to work, naturally. Only I don't mind eastern music; whichever part of the east you're in haha   

Joy Division wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I will catch the debate tomorrow haha.

The term is apt; it captures the little England mentality; echoes of Churchill's 'we will defend our island' only totally out of context of course, since Churchill of course wanted a 'sort of' USE (United States of Europe)- but no, for conservative little Englanders we are a small island fortress who wants to be white a god fearing all; and indeed to pull up that old drawbridge   

A brilliantly precise post Eilzel,

I have to agree in that context..............  ( Grudgingly of course )

Didge wrote:Well Victor again you are a hypocrite in poor form, you have moral standards on how an animal is killed yet hunt, such moral standards conflict, when hunting can cause an animal to die not quickly, so how can you chose to condone a method when yours has the biggest chance of suffering to an animal?

That is illogical, so you want choice over what animal has died the most unpleasant and you advocate hunting.

Behave, you have no case

STFU didge..you are nowt but a pain in the ass.and completely miss the point...
cretin..I made the point that not just for me but for a number of people there are a number of good reasons to object, yet you focus only on one (false) premise
you are a waste of good debating space with your constant diversion and refusal to stick to the point with your FALSE moralistic view points, made up only to disrupt and divert from the point we are trying to make....

BTW...when I shoot something I can assure you it is VERY VERY dead....within seconds if not instantly.....head shots tend to do that you know....especially with explosive or expanding rounds...and yes didge...before you ask the ineviatble....I can get 5 rounds of .17 HMR into a space the size of a 5p piece at 60 meters...with open sights (not that I commonly use open sights except for target work) and I can put 5 rounds of .243 into the space of a 10p piece at 180 meters using telescopic sights...so when i say i head shoot...i mean I head shoot...and dont "miss"

victorisnotamused wrote:

Didge wrote:Well Victor again you are a hypocrite in poor form, you have moral standards on how an animal is killed yet hunt, such moral standards conflict, when hunting can cause an animal to die not quickly, so how can you chose to condone a method when yours has the biggest chance of suffering to an animal?

That is illogical, so you want choice over what animal has died the most unpleasant and you advocate hunting.

Behave, you have no case

STFU didge..you are nowt but a pain in the ass.and completely miss the point...
cretin..I made the point that not just for me but for a number of people there are a number of good reasons to object, yet you focus only on one (false) premise
you are a waste of good debating space with your constant diversion and refusal to stick to the point with your FALSE moralistic view points, made up only to disrupt and divert from the point we are trying to make....

BTW...when I shoot something I can assure you it is VERY VERY dead....within seconds if not instantly.....head shots tend to do that you know....especially with explosive or expanding rounds...and yes didge...before you ask the ineviatble....I can get 5 rounds of .17 HMR into a space the size of a 5p piece at 60 meters...with open sights (not that I commonly use open sights except for target work) and I can put 5 rounds of .243 into the space of a 10p piece at 180 meters using telescopic sights...so when i say i head shoot...i mean I head shoot...and dont "miss"

Lots of abuse, lots of waffle but unable to counter my point or state that hunting always makes a clean kill.

Game over and very easy

I show up easy a very hypocritical point from a numpty, why I do it so well, you are so easy to fuck up!

Piece of cake really

lovedust wrote:

Sassy wrote:Probably because my earliest memories are living with all races and going to all kinds of festivals etc (earliest is probably at a Chinese New Year celebration when I was under 5 and it stayed in my memory).   I had a Malay boyfriend when I was 17 etc etc.   I couldn't stand just living with one type of people, it would be so damn boring.   According to Smelly it's because we know nothing about diversity that we feel like this, actually, as the last few posts have shown, it's because we have experienced REAL diversity.

Did you have a relative in the army Sass?

Sorry Lovey, was on the phone to eldest daughter  :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-:  


My dad was in the Air Force and we travelled a lot, did two long tours in Singapore and Malaysia, my brother was born in Singapore. I ended up working for the New Zealand Air Force out there. Gave me the travel bug.

gerber wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


A brilliantly precise post Eilzel,

I have to agree in that context..............  ( Grudgingly of course )

The Guardian had a link to it live.   They both made points, Farage dropped a real bollock when he said that the EU had blood on it's hands over Crimea.

In the beginning he did better, Cleggy did much better towards the end.  

Most of the commentators agreed that Farage had probably won by a little bit because of the beginning, but they were glad it had ended because his voice and bumptiousness was grating on them (that was his side too).

Didge wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

STFU didge..you are nowt but a pain in the ass.and completely miss the point...
cretin..I made the point that not just for me but for a number of people there are a number of good reasons to object, yet you focus only on one (false) premise
you are a waste of good debating space with your constant diversion and refusal to stick to the point with your FALSE moralistic view points, made up only to disrupt and divert from the point we are trying to make....

BTW...when I shoot something I can assure you it is VERY VERY dead....within seconds if not instantly.....head shots tend to do that you know....especially with explosive or expanding rounds...and yes didge...before you ask the ineviatble....I can get 5 rounds of .17 HMR into a space the size of a 5p piece at 60 meters...with open sights (not that I commonly use open sights except for target work) and I can put 5 rounds of .243 into the space of a 10p piece at 180 meters using telescopic sights...so when i say i head shoot...i mean I head shoot...and dont "miss"

Lots of abuse, lots of waffle but unable to counter my point or state that hunting always makes a clean kill.

Game over and very easy

I show up easy a very hypocritical point from a numpty, why I do it so well, you are so easy to fuck up!

Piece of cake really

and you fail...you dont adress the point do you ...just divert for your own stupid and pointless games...

the debate IS NOT about the rightness or otherwise of Halal killing..IS IT ??


ok for whatever reason i dont want it....your answer???? it seems significant that EIL "gets it" and yet you divert.....

where is the equity in refusing me a simple choice?

there ...thats even simpler

There you go Victor, your wish is being granted:

As the winter nights draw in my thoughts turn to my husband's delicious homemade mutton curry.

And here in Birmingham the best place to buy mutton is one of our local Halal butchers in the Bullring Market. Since I'm not a Muslim for me it's the meat that's important so I want to be sure the animal was stunned before slaughter. Most Halal meat is stunned but not all and when out shopping it can be hard to tell which is which. Now there are moves to change that.

Sitting chatting with Dr Mohammad Naseem over tea in the Birmingham Central Mosque he explained to me that for him Halal meat should not be stunned before slaughter. It may be an uncomfortable idea for many but for him it's non-negotiable.

Midlands sheep farmers
Halal is hugely important to our Midlands sheep farmers as the Muslim population of the UK eat so much lamb and mutton. Just under 5% of the UK population is Muslim but they eat more than 20% of English lamb. It's a big sector that helps support prices at a good level for farmers.

In a snapshot survey of abattoir activity from the Food Standards Agency, about half of all sheep passing through our abattoirs are stunned and then killed in the standard way ready for a typical Sunday roast. The other half will be slaughtered according to Halal rules and the majority will be stunned first. But around 10% of the entire total will be slaughtered without stunning.

For Dr Mohammad Naseem only that 10% is Halal. For me looking for mutton for curry it's the meat I don't want to buy. But neither of us can be sure what we are getting. Now Warwickshire-based Eblex, the industry body, is consulting on how to improve this state of affairs and for the first time that could involve labelling to make it clear if the animal has been stunned or not.

Clearer labelling
This is just a consultation at the moment and it would only be voluntary, but Eblex are hopeful it can be adopted by the industry as a whole. In particular for our medium sized abattoirs who may run both stunned and non-stunned Halal slaughtering and who would have to show much greater traceability and transparency about what happens to a particular batch of meat.

The bigger question of the cruelty and appropriateness of non-stunning slaughter be it for Halal or for Kosher food seems to have reached a political pause at the moment with the government declaring it would continue after a long consultation. Groups like the RSPCA are unhappy about this but accept more information for consumers would be an important step forward.

At the base in Warwickshire Phil Hadley from Eblex explained how they get phone calls from people wanting to know how they can be sure their meat is Halal alongside calls from people who want to be sure they don't buy it.

There's clearly a demand for much clearer labelling from many consumers with all sorts of views on this controversial subject. That's what Eblex want to try and provide and they will report back in the new year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-25036323

Sassy wrote:There you go Victor, your wish is being granted:

As the winter nights draw in my thoughts turn to my husband's delicious homemade mutton curry.

And here in Birmingham the best place to buy mutton is one of our local Halal butchers in the Bullring Market. Since I'm not a Muslim for me it's the meat that's important so I want to be sure the animal was stunned before slaughter. Most Halal meat is stunned but not all and when out shopping it can be hard to tell which is which. Now there are moves to change that.

Sitting chatting with Dr Mohammad Naseem over tea in the Birmingham Central Mosque he explained to me that for him Halal meat should not be stunned before slaughter. It may be an uncomfortable idea for many but for him it's non-negotiable.

Midlands sheep farmers
Halal is hugely important to our Midlands sheep farmers as the Muslim population of the UK eat so much lamb and mutton. Just under 5% of the UK population is Muslim but they eat more than 20% of English lamb. It's a big sector that helps support prices at a good level for farmers.

In a snapshot survey of abattoir activity from the Food Standards Agency, about half of all sheep passing through our abattoirs are stunned and then killed in the standard way ready for a typical Sunday roast. The other half will be slaughtered according to Halal rules and the majority will be stunned first. But around 10% of the entire total will be slaughtered without stunning.

For Dr Mohammad Naseem only that 10% is Halal. For me looking for mutton for curry it's the meat I don't want to buy. But neither of us can be sure what we are getting. Now Warwickshire-based Eblex, the industry body, is consulting on how to improve this state of affairs and for the first time that could involve labelling to make it clear if the animal has been stunned or not.



Clearer labelling
This is just a consultation at the moment and it would only be voluntary, but Eblex are hopeful it can be adopted by the industry as a whole. In particular for our medium sized abattoirs who may run both stunned and non-stunned Halal slaughtering and who would have to show much greater traceability and transparency about what happens to a particular batch of meat.

The bigger question of the cruelty and appropriateness of non-stunning slaughter be it for Halal or for Kosher food seems to have reached a political pause at the moment with the government declaring it would continue after a long consultation. Groups like the RSPCA are unhappy about this but accept more information for consumers would be an important step forward.

At the base in Warwickshire Phil Hadley from Eblex explained how they get phone calls from people wanting to know how they can be sure their meat is Halal alongside calls from people who want to be sure they don't buy it.

There's clearly a demand for much clearer labelling from many consumers with all sorts of views on this controversial subject. That's what Eblex want to try and provide and they will report back in the new year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-25036323

Good, and then thats one less objection I will have.........and one more step to "proper" multiculturalism rather than the sham we have at the moment......

See didge....sassy "gets it " too......

not eating something because it is Halal is as Silly as not eating something because it is not Halal.

No one is refusing you a simple choice? you seem to mistake laws preventing something and market forces. Simply, there is not many people that WONT eat because it is Halal but there are enough people that wont eat it if it is not Halal to warrant using Halal to Maximise sales, Nothing to do with laws forcing you, it is simple supply and demand

YOU are actually the minority that doesn't want to eat Halal, And what is your advice to Minorities? I believe it is something along the lives of STFU.

Victor, I believe you should have the choice, because you think halal is cruel.   I, on the other hand, think halal is the least cruel.   I said it before, but my daughter had a canula put in her carotid artery by mistake and it wasn't sealed properly.   Blood shot out and she was unconcious within seconds, 2 or 3 at the most, and she never remembered a thing about what happened, because her brain lost blood so fast.   Now if that can happen from a canula in one artery, and halal sever the carotid artery and the jugular vein at the same time, severs, not just puts a small hole in one, I fail to see how the animal can feel anything.   The video's show the animals moving, so was she, thrashing about, but she didn't know anything about it.   That was proof to me.    And I know what goes on with stunning and electic prods etc.

veya_victaous wrote:not eating something because it is Halal is as Silly as not eating something because it is not Halal.

No one is refusing you a simple choice? you seem to mistake laws preventing something and market forces. Simply, there is not many people that WONT eat because it is Halal but there are enough people that wont eat it if it is not Halal to warrant using Halal to Maximise sales, Nothing to do with laws forcing you, it is simple supply and demand

YOU are actually the minority that doesn't want to eat Halal, And what is your advice to Minorities? I believe it is something along the lives of STFU.

i suggest you stick to what you know about....the land of sheep and big bouncing i dont know's. All you have done, had I wanted to argue it (which I dont, since I dont hold that view...but hey ho...i could be a real r/w b'stard)is given me the ammunition to claim i have been made a minority in my own land...prat...

and yes. ATM they ARE refusing that choice...because its not labeled....again you are as daft as didge...now both Eil AND Sassy know where i'm comming from with this....and as sassy has just posted this fact IS now (somewhat tardily) being recognised and addressed.

Sassy wrote:Victor, I believe you should have the choice, because you think halal is cruel.   I, on the other hand, think halal is the least cruel.   I said it before, but my daughter had a canula put in her carotid artery by mistake and it wasn't sealed properly.   Blood shot out and she was unconcious within seconds, 2 or 3 at the most, and she never remembered a thing about what happened, because her brain lost blood so fast.   Now if that can happen from a canula in one artery, and halal sever the carotid artery and the jugular vein at the same time, severs, not just puts a small hole in one, I fail to see how the animal can feel anything.   The video's show the animals moving, so was she, thrashing about, but she didn't know anything about it.   That was proof to me.    And I know what goes on with stunning and electic prods etc.

So di I sassy...which is why, generally, I prefer to hunt my meat, unfortunately, cows, pigs and sheep are not on the general licence or considered "game" sniffle....

victorisnotamused wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:not eating something because it is Halal is as Silly as not eating something because it is not Halal.

No one is refusing you a simple choice? you seem to mistake laws preventing something and market forces. Simply, there is not many people that WONT eat because it is Halal but there are enough people that wont eat it if it is not Halal to warrant using Halal to Maximise sales, Nothing to do with laws forcing you, it is simple supply and demand

YOU are actually the minority that doesn't want to eat Halal, And what is your advice to Minorities? I believe it is something along the lives of STFU.

i suggest you stick to what you know about....the land of sheep and big bouncing i dont know's. All you have done, had I wanted to argue it (which I dont, since I dont hold that view...but hey ho...i could be a real r/w b'stard)is given me the ammunition to claim i have been made a minority in my own land...prat...

and yes. ATM they ARE refusing that choice...because its not labeled....again you are as daft as didge...now both Eil AND Sassy know where i'm comming from with this....and as sassy has just posted this fact IS now  (somewhat tardily) being recognised and addressed.

Why isn't it labelled? Apparently it is Big Bouncing COMMON SENSE we have down here because YES it is labelled. Why are you English so lazy? you just gave the simple solution why isn't it implemented? you can't blame me I forgot You guys still live in the 1970's. unable to change and adapt to new environments...  

And you are a minority because MOST Anglos don't give a fuck, as who would give a fuck that it has been blessed by a magic sky giant or not?

AND SUCK IT UP, Just like the Aboriginals were, you are now the weak race and culture that is getting taken over. nothing unusual perfectly natural course of events really. It has happened to Thousands of other cultures that have let themselves stagnate and become obsolete. Don't worry your grand kids will get compensation       

OH and considering I have a Muslim sister in Law, I know You are scared of nothing and your whole Muslim Bagging thing is Racist Rubbish and you actually too scared to speak to a Muslim because a conversation with 90%+ of Muslims and you would realise most are normal People!! (I have had a Muslim Girlfriend before, they are no different naked  ::D::  )

and you would realise most are normal People!

So Veya, does that apply to aboriginals as well?

veya_victaous wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

i suggest you stick to what you know about....the land of sheep and big bouncing i dont know's. All you have done, had I wanted to argue it (which I dont, since I dont hold that view...but hey ho...i could be a real r/w b'stard)is given me the ammunition to claim i have been made a minority in my own land...prat...

and yes. ATM they ARE refusing that choice...because its not labeled....again you are as daft as didge...now both Eil AND Sassy know where i'm comming from with this....and as sassy has just posted this fact IS now  (somewhat tardily) being recognised and addressed.

Why isn't it labelled? Apparently it is Big Bouncing COMMON SENSE we have down here because YES it is labelled. Why are you English so lazy? you just gave the simple solution why isn't it implemented? you can't blame me I forgot You guys still live in the 1970's. unable to change and adapt to new environments...  

It wasnt laziness veya...not one bit....It was deliberate policy, because they powers that be know that people WILL give a fuck, and not necessarily for spiritual reasons.

And you are a minority because MOST Anglos don't give a fuck, as who would give a fuck that it has been blessed by a magic sky giant or not?

AND SUCK IT UP, Just like the Aboriginals were, you are now the weak race and culture that is getting taken over. nothing unusual perfectly natural course of events really. It has happened to Thousands of other cultures that have let themselves stagnate and become obsolete. Don't worry your grand kids will get compensation       

OH and considering I have a Muslim sister in Law, I know You are scared of nothing and your whole Muslim Bagging thing is Racist Rubbish and you actually too scared to speak to a Muslim because a conversation with 90%+ of Muslims and you would realise most are normal People!! hmmm...normal eh?? and they believe devoutly in a magic sky giant? (I have had a Muslim Girlfriend before, they are no different naked  ::D::  ) I was going to say something cutting there....but I doubt your sense of humour is strong enough....

Well I dont know..you see last year I had 3 out of the whole of my customers who were shall we say foreign (not all muslim) and I had 3 defaulters on payment....guess the relationship

now I know 3 is NOT a large sample base BUT...100% of my customers of foreign origin defaulted......hmmmmmmm  

Sassy wrote:and you would realise most are normal People!

So Veya, does that apply to aboriginals as well?

Yes most Aboriginals are normal people not Alcoholics and Drug addicts, Most do not have the huge list of issues as presented in the crap pile called Utopia.
Most Aboriginals would prefer to give those that try and better chance, than continue to throw money at drug addicted alcoholics.

@vic
Are most Christians devout?
Not really. If you just want to get rid of Fundamentalist, sure thing, we cant dump GIG in the ocean         

sound like a plan to me......

but then again ...anything THAT full of hot air would simply float.....

lolz @ vic
 ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/:  ://?roflmao?/: 

Wicked - but so true!  :-:bravo:-: :-:bravo:-: 

Might I just add that while we proles debate the nuances of our varying degrees of skin pigmentation, the big-money interests continue to do this to all of us?

 ::sexbnan: ::sexbnan: ::sexbnan: ::sexbnan: ::sexbnan: 

eddie wrote:

smelly_bandit wrote:
.......................................................  

they have some delusion than a Pakistani Muslim will come skipping along with a big smile on his face and in a warm voice say "i love you Britain let me share my culture with you"..............................

and it is great until that Muslim opens his trench coat and around his waist is a belt of explosives with the words "Muslim culture" written on it

That's only if you assume that every Muslim is a suicide bomber   

  

ISLAM is not a country !   It is a religion..


Smelly's latest rancid and bigotted shite doesn't even belong in this particular thread...
 ::dedhrs::

smelly_bandit wrote:

Didge wrote:


Well we have accepted you, so clearly your view is that we should not have accepted you being as you are a foreigner, but being as most people are kind we even accept someone arguing against himself being here.
I mean you are a down and out utter racist, but we still accept you with all your faults

so im a foreigner now am i??

earlier you were saying i was British

any danger of you making up your mind

Yes because you admitted to us all you are foreign, DOH, so again you show how utterly daft your logic is, we accepted even a racist wally like yourself

I thought smelly was white?   

veya_victaous wrote:@vic
Are most Christians devout?
Not really.  If you just want to get rid of Fundamentalist, sure thing, we cant dump GIG in the ocean         

well that's not very nice...