Islamic Law Adopted By Legal Chiefs

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:42 pm

23rd March 2014

After all those years fighting for equality, we now give it all away due to... well, either political correctness, or a crippling fear of islam.

Please discuss.

Islamic law is to be effectively enshrined in the British legal system for the first time under guidelines for solicitors on drawing up “Sharia compliant” wills.

Under ground-breaking guidance, produced by The Law Society, High Street solicitors will be able to write Islamic wills that deny women an equal share of inheritances and exclude unbelievers altogether.

The documents, which would be recognised by Britain’s courts, will also prevent children born out of wedlock – and even those who have been adopted – from being counted as legitimate heirs.

Anyone married in a church, or in a civil ceremony, could be excluded from succession under Sharia principles, which recognise only Muslim weddings for inheritance purposes.

Some lawyers described the guidance as “astonishing”, while campaigners warned it represented a major step on the road to a “parallel legal system” for Britain’s Muslim communities.

Baroness Cox, a cross-bench peer leading a Parliamentary campaign to protect women from religiously sanctioned discrimination, including from unofficial Sharia courts in Britain, said it was a “deeply disturbing” development and pledged to raise it with ministers.

“This violates everything that we stand for,” she said. “It would make the Suffragettes turn in their graves.”

The guidance, quietly published this month and distributed to solicitors in England and Wales, details how wills should be drafted to fit Islamic traditions while being valid under British law.

It suggests deleting or amending standard legal terms and even words such as “children” to ensure that those deemed “illegitimate” are denied any claim over the inheritance.

It recommends that some wills include a declaration of faith in Allah which would be drafted at a local mosque, and hands responsibility for drawing up some papers to Sharia courts.

The guidance goes on to suggest that Sharia principles could potentially overrule British practices in some disputes, giving examples of areas that would need to be tested in English courts.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:47 pm

I read about this and think it is wrong Andy, as I already stated if any sharia law conflicts with discrimination and British law it should never be allowed to become enshrined in law as it is going against all equality principles.
Have to see what happens here but I doubt it will become a reality or that it never should. Again I am fine for sharia laws to be about advising Muslims and nothing more, they should never become and supersede British law.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:12 pm

There seems to be another side to this which is interesting though, as anyone can create a will where they decide who gets the money they leave on, which means many people are denied this through the eyes of the law, so already a husband can leave his wife out of the will leaving her little. In Islamic law he cannot do that or any of the siblings, as all stand to gain even though the amounts are not equal.
So in a way where it may discriminate, it stops though any from receiving no share, so it is a difficult one this to be honest, but again I am of the view the law in regards to inheritance should be the same for all and no exceptions.

by stardesk Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Afternoon folks. We've discussed integration and multiculturism into our society by migrants, but it seems they flout or way of life and laws. I was pleased to see on the the news that a doctor who performed/s female genital mutilation has been fined and the practice in the UK is being highlighted as illegal. But what about this, below:

Eighteen UK mosques have married girls as young as 14 to men three time their age. The majority of the cases were Indonesian Muslims, who have a strong tradition of arranged marriage and a tolerance for child rape as a consequence. One British welfare organisation estimates the number of forced marriages in the UK to be as high as 8,000 each year. In some cases the arranged groom wants nothing to do with the marriage either, but both are compelled by mothers, fathers, brothers, and cousins to complete the arrangement, often for financial gain. In some cases first cousins are married in order to keep property of money “in the family”.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:02 pm

stardesk wrote:Afternoon folks. We've discussed integration and multiculturism into our society by migrants, but it seems they flout or way of life and laws. I was pleased to see on the the news that a doctor who performed/s female genital mutilation has been fined and the practice in the UK is being highlighted as illegal. But what about this, below:

Eighteen UK mosques have married girls as young as 14 to men three time their age. The majority of the cases were Indonesian Muslims, who have a strong tradition of arranged marriage and a tolerance for child rape as a consequence. One British welfare organisation estimates the number of forced marriages in the UK to be as high as 8,000 each year. In some cases the arranged groom wants nothing to do with the marriage either, but both are compelled by mothers, fathers, brothers, and cousins to complete the arrangement, often for financial gain. In some cases first cousins are married in order to keep property of money “in the family”.

it is ridiculous, why should we keep giving up to this one religion, what hold has it got over Britain..

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:20 pm

stardesk wrote:Afternoon folks. We've discussed integration and multiculturism into our society by migrants, but it seems they flout or way of life and laws. I was pleased to see on the the news that a doctor who performed/s female genital mutilation has been fined and the practice in the UK is being highlighted as illegal. But what about this, below:

Eighteen UK mosques have married girls as young as 14 to men three time their age. The majority of the cases were Indonesian Muslims, who have a strong tradition of arranged marriage and a tolerance for child rape as a consequence. One British welfare organisation estimates the number of forced marriages in the UK to be as high as 8,000 each year. In some cases the arranged groom wants nothing to do with the marriage either, but both are compelled by mothers, fathers, brothers, and cousins to complete the arrangement, often for financial gain. In some cases first cousins are married in order to keep property of money “in the family”.

As stated already stardesk I do not think any religious law should supersede British law especially on equality and should never discriminate. The fact is our own law on wills is subjective, spouses have to be given some of the will, but the amount is subjective. In Islamic law, whilst it does discriminate on a sexist bases on how much each will receive they are set the amounts, which differ to our laws.

Again placing a guilt of association on those who flout and break the law Stardesk is a poor argument, as if we should not have any Muslims here, as many do not break the law or even seek to break it, such an illogical view can be used on any group of people, because all have people within that group who break the law.

What is interesting and this link shows why, is that by not recognizing something a wife seen as legal in Islamic law, though the marriage not recognized by American law can leave a Muslim wife with without anything. Thus again no religious law should supersede British law, but we must also ensure those of religious beliefs are protected by our laws, which as you will does not happen at times

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/02/muslim-divorces-sharia-law_n_1930921.html

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:38 pm

I don't give a toss about our laws being subjective, i would like to know why islam always seems to get favoured, perhaps terrorism does pay...

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:46 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I don't give a toss about our laws being subjective, i would like to know why islam always seems to get favoured, perhaps terrorism does pay...

Nothing to do with being favored, because amendments or guidance is about trying to accommodate all beliefs, as none of these changes affect you directly. Again no religious laws including yours should supersede British law and as stated I do not think we should accommodate the sharia principle on inheritance, but as stated we also have to recognize other beliefs and their understanding of their laws, as it without doing so discriminate against the person of that belief, in this case the Muslim wife left with nothing.

The fact that we have favored Christianity and its views over any other faith for centuries and still do in this country shows how little you grasp, that being me as an atheist I have no accommodation for my non beliefs, you though like any religion get accommodation due to your beliefs, so please spare me he favoured view, as religions get accommodation within British law

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:52 pm

Didge wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:I don't give a toss about our laws being subjective, i would like to know why islam always seems to get favoured, perhaps terrorism does pay...

Nothing to do with being favored, because amendments or guidance is about trying to accommodate all beliefs, as none of these changes affect you directly. Again no religious laws including yours should supersede British law and as stated I do not think we should accommodate the sharia principle on inheritance, but as stated we also have to recognize other beliefs and their understanding of their laws, as it without doing so discriminate against the person of that belief, in this case the Muslim wife left with nothing.

The fact that we have favored Christianity and its views over any other faith for centuries and still do in this country shows how little you grasp, that being me as an atheist I have no accommodation for my non beliefs, you though like any religion get accommodation due to your beliefs, so please spare me he favoured view, as religions get accommodation within British law

so why is it being amended, why incorporate a religious law if our own law covers it...

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:55 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Didge wrote:

Nothing to do with being favored, because amendments or guidance is about trying to accommodate all beliefs, as none of these changes affect you directly. Again no religious laws including yours should supersede British law and as stated I do not think we should accommodate the sharia principle on inheritance, but as stated we also have to recognize other beliefs and their understanding of their laws, as it without doing so discriminate against the person of that belief, in this case the Muslim wife left with nothing.

The fact that we have favored Christianity and its views over any other faith for centuries and still do in this country shows how little you grasp, that being me as an atheist I have no accommodation for my non beliefs, you though like any religion get accommodation due to your beliefs, so please spare me he favoured view, as religions get accommodation within British law

so why is it being amended, why incorporate a religious law if our own law covers it...

I never said it should be amended and again it is guidelines, nobody has set this as a precedence that it would be upheld by the law, that is down to judges and the Government.
Again my view is that it should not be incorporated into British law

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:06 pm

Didge wrote:
Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

so why is it being amended, why incorporate a religious law if our own law covers it...

I never said it should be amended and again it is guidelines, nobody has set this as a precedence that it would be upheld by the law, that is down to judges and the Government.
Again my view is that it should not be incorporated into British law

guidelines are the same thing, it is added to take special note in case of islamic couples, still wrong..

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:08 pm

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Didge wrote:

I never said it should be amended and again it is guidelines, nobody has set this as a precedence that it would be upheld by the law, that is down to judges and the Government.
Again my view is that it should not be incorporated into British law

guidelines are the same thing, it is added to take special note in case of islamic couples, still wrong..

Guidelines can change and are forever changing, which again you missed all the points I made, seriously, you do not debate anything and it really is boring, as I already stated it is wrong.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:25 pm

perhaps it's just easier to give in to islam just like the UN did over no death sentence for being gay...

appeasement seems to be a trend..

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:30 pm

Have with given into Christianity by the same token as Uganda has laws to discriminate against gay people?

You see being as you are Christian, this places you in the same pot as Muslims, your own faith is as accountable for such views against gay people, including your own views on gay people which are very much anti-homosexual. Thus for you to pull the Islamic anti-homosexual card, when you are anti-homosexual and so is Christianity, is the worst double standards possible, because you yourself are happy to discriminate against homosexuals because of your faith

by Ben Reilly Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:35 pm

I think it's about time that all of Britain converted to Islam and submitted to Shariah.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:36 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think it's about time that all of Britain converted to Islam and submitted to Shariah.

it is heading that way...

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:59 pm

Lets have the facts of the matter shall we.

Law Society Issues Guidance on Sharia Wills
18th March 2014

The Law Society has issued new guidance on drawing up wills that incorporate principles of Sharia law in response to growing demand from the Muslim community. The guidance comes as courts have made clear that they are prepared to endorse marital financial agreements made under Sharia if they comply with English law.

The new advice says that clients in England and Wales can legally choose to bequeath their assets according to Sharia, providing that the will is signed in accordance with the requirements set out in the Wills Act 1837. The Law Society, the professional body for 150,000 solicitors, has received an increasing number of requests from solicitors who say that clients want wills that will withstand challenges in the courts while complying with their religious principles.
- See more at: http://www.ibblaw.co.uk/blog/2014/03/18/law-society-issues-guidance-on-sharia-wills#sthash.q3eyHewy.dpuf

So they want to do wills according to their religious beliefs that comply with English Law. Exactly the same as Jewish people have done for many, many years.

Bit different to the Mail article.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:03 pm

Thanks for that sassy, then I see no problem, as again like I stated if it does not supersede British law, thus it can only be made under compliance with British law, then that is okay.

That is fair to me.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:10 pm

Me too.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:43 pm

it is not equal, no religious law should be involved in the law of the country, the law should be for all and regardless of your religion.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:16 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:I think it's about time that all of Britain converted to Islam and submitted to Shariah.

you mean like america did when they elected a muslim for president

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:19 pm

Oh bless him, he's so fucking predictable.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:23 pm

Sassy wrote:Lets have the facts of the matter shall we.

Law Society Issues Guidance on Sharia Wills
18th March 2014

The Law Society has issued new guidance on drawing up wills that incorporate principles of Sharia law in response to growing demand from the Muslim community. The guidance comes as courts have made clear that they are prepared to endorse marital financial agreements made under Sharia if they comply with English law.

The new advice says that clients in England and Wales can legally choose to bequeath their assets according to Sharia, providing that the will is signed in accordance with the requirements set out in the Wills Act 1837. The Law Society, the professional body for 150,000 solicitors, has received an increasing number of requests from solicitors who say that clients want wills that will withstand challenges in the courts while complying with their religious principles.
- See more at: http://www.ibblaw.co.uk/blog/2014/03/18/law-society-issues-guidance-on-sharia-wills#sthash.q3eyHewy.dpuf

So they want to do wills according to their religious beliefs that comply with English Law. Exactly the same as Jewish people have done for many, many years.

Bit different to the Mail article.

Hi Sassy, could you post the Mail article up so the rest of us can see it.

Cheers dear.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:30 pm

the qur'anic rules for dividing inheritance add up to more assets than are actually available

According to the Qur'an, Allah gives the following rules in regard to dividing of the inheritance:

4:11
Allah charges you, concerning your children:
to the male the like of the portion of two females,
and if they be women above two, then for them two-thirds of what he leaves,
but if she be one then to her a half;

and to his parents to each one of the two the sixth of what he leaves, if he has children;
but if he has no children, and his heirs are his parents,
a third to his mother,
or if he has brothers, to his mother a sixth,
after any bequest he may bequeath, or any debt.

Your fathers or your sons -
you know not which out of them is nearer in profit to you.
So Allah apportions; surely Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

4:12
And for you a half of what your wives leave, if they have no children;
but if they have children, then for you of what they leave a fourth,
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt.

And for them a fourth of what you leave, if you have no children;
but if you have children, then for them of what you leave an eighth.
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt.

If a man or woman have no heir direct [i.e. children or parents],
but have a brother or a sister, to each of the two a sixth;
but if they are more numerous than that, they share equally a third,
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt not prejudicial;
a charge from Allah. Allah is All-knowing, All-clement.

4:176
They will ask thee for a pronouncement.
Say: 'Allah pronounces to you concerning the indirect heirs.
If a man perishes having no children,
but he has a sister, she shall receive a half of what he leaves,
and he is her heir if she has no children.
If there be two sisters,
they shall receive two-thirds of what he leaves;
if there be brothers and sisters,
the male shall receive the portion of two females.
Allah makes clear to you, lest you go astray;
Allah has knowledge of everything.

There are numerous simple cases which are not clear how to deal with them at all, since they are not covered under the instructions given. For example, if I have only one daughter, verse 4:11 says that she gets half [seemingly no matter who else might inherit]. The verse also states the general rule that a son inherits double of what a daughter inherits. Does that mean an only son would get all? Even if there are still parents which should also get a share? Also, it is regulated that one daughter would get half, and more than two daughters will [equally] share in 2/3. How much would two daughters get among them? The average between 1/2 and 2/3

I die and leave my wife and one daughter but I have no other relatives, which means that my daughter gets 1/2 = 4/8 [verse 11] and my wife gets 1/8 [verse 12] leaving again 3/8 unaccounted for.

In all these [and several more such] cases the question is: Who gets the rest? I agree this can be taken care of by donating it to charities or the local Masjid. But the problem is the Qur'an does not tell us what to do with it. Can the rest also be distributed among the wife and children? But that procedure would make their shares different from what has been specified in the Qur'an! What is the point of specifying clear shares and then abandoning the instructions? Anyway, as long as the shares add up to less than one, things can be settled still "relatively easily." People get at least the share they are supposed to get [according to the Qur'an]. More problematic is the following certainly not uncommon situation:

If I (as the male head of the family) die and leave behind (in the order given in the verses above):

3 daughters,
both parents,
my wife,

then they will receive

2/3 (2/9 each) - daughters
1/3 (1/6 each) - parents
1/8 - wife

according to verse 11verse 11verse 12 which adds up to

2/3 + 1/3 + 1/8 = 1 + 1/8

Where is the extra 1/8 going to come from? Is the local Muslim community [the "fund for balancing out the inheritance shares that don't add up"] going to pay it? After all, if they would be getting the left-overs from the cases when the sum is less than one in the examples above, that would only be fair.

thats just one example of the cluster fuck coming to a sharia court near you

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:51 pm

Love it smelly not understanding the debate again, trying to claim he understands Islam of which gave for the time money to help ensure women were looked after, of which Christianity did not. So fair play tp the faith of islam, they led the way to ensure women got something where before in Christianity they got fuck all.

Again though he misses the point in British law, what a woman gets in inheritance as a widower is subjective and thus some women in British law may come off better than Muslims women under Islamic law, many others would not because they would only receive what the judge decides where as the amount is fixed in Islamic law. So as seen there is advantages and disadvantages in both laws, though all of which is irrelevant as the law is not going to superseded, another thorn in the Hate plan of smelly the Christian who thinks he is the Messiah, who next week will give a special tribute to washing your feet, as he is so humble

by Irn Bru Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:49 pm

This is nonsense. The Law society are just issuing a code of practice to try and make sure that those representing Muslim clients make sure that they remain within the law of the United Kingdom.
Anyone can make out a will and leave whatever they have to anyone that they want. It's always been like that and I doubt it will ever change.
The Law Society, judges or legal eagles cannot change the law, that can only be done by an act of parliament or an amendment to an existing Act.

Law Society publishes practice note on Sharia wills and inheritance rules

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/press-releases/law-society-publishes-practice-note-on-sharia-wills-and-inheritance-rules/

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:02 pm

So many people like to twist so many things! Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:59 pm

Yep they love to twist things...like...

telling us how all the different immigrants are now british, whether we like it or not...then wanting them to have "exceptions".

Sorry?? IF you claim to be british...then you are subject ONLY and ABSOLUTELY to british law there can be NO other at work. And you accept this or....koff.

And yes that includes the "beth din " courts....

NONE of them should be allowed to exist here.

as a second point....there is in OUR "constitution" a separation between church and state (i.e LAW). All these other "introductions" (multiculturalism) undermines that principle in toto...

i give it but a few years before some business man...(most likely a small business cos they are easy targets) is going to be forced to accept "sharia" business contract terms and then be royally screwed over on those terms...

You forget ...in sharia a kuffir is worth only 1/4 of a muslim....

no evidence to back that up didge...just a prediction....time will be the judge.....

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:02 pm

It is done under British Law if you read it Victor. They simply are expressing how they want their estates distributed and making sure it is in compliance with our law.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:05 pm

then there is NO need for it...and our law suffices in any case, in which case their demand for "sharia law" is merely the thin end of the wedge. An unreasonable and provocative demand designed to stoke up tension so they can cry victim...again.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:11 pm

Our law is sufficing. We all want our wills to do different things, they are simply making sure they comply with UK law. What is wrong with that?

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:19 pm

Sassy wrote:Our law is sufficing. We all want our wills to do different things, they are simply making sure they comply with UK law. What is wrong with that?

It doesnt take a genius to write a valid will...In fact you would have to try hard NOT to write a valid will. there is NO need for "sharia". they are not tryng to make sure "their " will is compliant with our law, they are trying to define this or that aspect as "sharia" and thus by fait accomli introduce legal tolerance of sharia into british law. If they are not sure if what they want to do complies with our law then they should employ, like everyone, else a solicitor to tell em what they can and cant do....THERE IS NO need for "sharia" in name or in fact.

THAT is my point....there is NO need for sharia compliance OUR law is sufficient and good enough...like it or lump it...

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:31 pm

That is exactly what they are doing. The Law Society's guide lines are for solicitors.

It was only a short time ago that we had canon law.

by Guest Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:45 pm

true..then came seperation of church and state...

You simply CANNOT argue that our law suffices...then say ahhh but.....There is NO need for the mention of Sharia or other law...in any form....or of any consideration of cultural or religious "sensitivities" the law that applies is existing british law...write your will according to that ...DONE...

as I said...thin end of wedge....

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:10 am

I'm sorry Victor, but I think that is ludicrous. All they are saying is 'please make sure my will complies with my religion and the law'.

How about the christian religions that their followers pay a toll during their lifetime and a percentage of their estate on death?

by Irn Bru Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:17 am

victorisnotamused wrote:then there is NO need for it...and our law suffices in any case, in which case their demand for "sharia law" is merely the thin end of the wedge. An unreasonable and provocative demand designed to stoke up tension so they can cry victim...again.

But Victor, if Solicitors have written out Wills for Muslims that are not in compliance with UK law isn't it right that the Law Society should issue them with guidance so that they are and remain accountable for their actions to a higher authority like UK law?

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:21 am

Sassy wrote:I'm sorry Victor, but I think that is ludicrous. All they are saying is 'please make sure my will complies with my religion and the law'.

How about the christian religions that their followers pay a toll during their lifetime and a percentage of their estate on death?

what has that got to do with it???
firstly, its ~~got~~ should have nothing to do with their will complying with their religion....it either complies with british law or it doesnt...NOTHING else matters....what they are effectively asking is that some lawyer argue the case for "bending" the law to suit their "religion" when there comes the time of dispute.
as for what those christians get up to...it aint my concern...unless they are in britain...in which case if it doesnt comply with british law then it should not be allowed to happen...
In any case I do beleive that such "tolls" etc are voluntary...just like leaving part of your estate to the local cats home..... There is no invocation to "other law" involved.

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:24 am

Irn Bru wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:then there is NO need for it...and our law suffices in any case, in which case their demand for "sharia law" is merely the thin end of the wedge. An unreasonable and provocative demand designed to stoke up tension so they can cry victim...again.

But Victor, if Solicitors have written out Wills for Muslims that are not in compliance with UK law isn't it right that the Law Society should issue them with guidance so that they are and remain accountable for their actions to a higher authority like UK law?

Yes and NO.....they should be made to simply write wills that REGARDLESS of "religious sensitivity" are compliant SOLEY with british law...after all...IF these folks wish to be considered "british" then they should accept the total authority of british law as being precedent upon all things. If they dont...the door is over there

by Irn Bru Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:28 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Irn Bru wrote:
victorisnotamused wrote:then there is NO need for it...and our law suffices in any case, in which case their demand for "sharia law" is merely the thin end of the wedge. An unreasonable and provocative demand designed to stoke up tension so they can cry victim...again.

But Victor, if Solicitors have written out Wills for Muslims that are not in compliance with UK law isn't it right that the Law Society should issue them with guidance so that they are and remain accountable for their actions to a higher authority like UK law?

Yes and NO.....they should be made to simply write wills that REGARDLESS of "religious sensitivity" are compliant SOLEY with british law...after all...IF these folks wish to be considered "british" then they should accept the total authority of british law as being precedent upon all things. If they dont...the door is over there

That's what the code of practice is meant to do...

From the Law Society

Solicitors are not required to follow them, but by doing so the intent is to make it easier for legal practitioners to account for their actions to oversight bodies.

I other words - UK law.

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:41 am

Sassy wrote:Lets have the facts of the matter shall we.

Law Society Issues Guidance on Sharia Wills
18th March 2014

The Law Society has issued new guidance on drawing up wills that incorporate principles of Sharia law in response to growing demand from the Muslim community. The guidance comes as courts have made clear that they are prepared to endorse marital financial agreements made under Sharia if they comply with English law.

Considering that "prenuptial agreements" are NOT binding in british law (yet) and can be set aside at the whim of the judge if he deems them unreasonable (particularly to the woman) EITHER...that is leagal nonsense...or sharia is "creeping its way in"

The new advice says that clients in England and Wales can legally choose to bequeath their assets according to Sharia, providing that the will is signed in accordance with the requirements set out in the Wills Act 1837. The Law Society, the professional body for 150,000 solicitors, has received an increasing number of requests from solicitors who say that clients want wills that will withstand challenges in the courts while complying with their religious principles.
- See more at: http://www.ibblaw.co.uk/blog/2014/03/18/law-society-issues-guidance-on-sharia-wills#sthash.q3eyHewy.dpuf

So they want to do wills according to their religious beliefs that comply with English Law. Exactly the same as Jewish people have done for many, many years.

You dont see it do you....DAMN their religious beliefs, compliance with british law is ALL that matters, there should be NO consideration of "religion" in law..

Bit different to the Mail article.

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:23 am

Again I fail to see your beef here Victor and again it seems a personal view you have against Muslims. Again I have stated no religious law should supersede British laws on discrimination and here already our own laws allow for discrimination in inheritance laws, because the will maker can leave far more of their inheritance for example to male members, or even female members of the family. This again states the will have to comply within British law, well as seen Law Society’s guidance doesn’t undermine that at all. As even individuals are free to leave their property to whoever they wish when they die, and on whatever basis they choose, including that of religion already (although there are of course a number of grounds on which a will may be contested)

Lets be honest the real reason this has been done by the law society has been to allow laywers can make money out of Muslims

Welcome back by the way

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:31 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:Lets have the facts of the matter shall we.

Law Society Issues Guidance on Sharia Wills
18th March 2014

The Law Society has issued new guidance on drawing up wills that incorporate principles of Sharia law in response to growing demand from the Muslim community. The guidance comes as courts have made clear that they are prepared to endorse marital financial agreements made under Sharia if they comply with English law.

Considering that "prenuptial agreements" are NOT binding in british law (yet) and can be set aside at the whim of the judge if he deems them unreasonable (particularly to the woman) EITHER...that is leagal nonsense...or sharia is "creeping its way in"

The new advice says that clients in England and Wales can legally choose to bequeath their assets according to Sharia, providing that the will is signed in accordance with the requirements set out in the Wills Act 1837. The Law Society, the professional body for 150,000 solicitors, has received an increasing number of requests from solicitors who say that clients want wills that will withstand challenges in the courts while complying with their religious principles.
- See more at: http://www.ibblaw.co.uk/blog/2014/03/18/law-society-issues-guidance-on-sharia-wills#sthash.q3eyHewy.dpuf

So they want to do wills according to their religious beliefs that comply with English Law. Exactly the same as Jewish people have done for many, many years.

You dont see it do you....DAMN their religious beliefs, compliance with british law is ALL that matters, there should be NO consideration of "religion" in law..

Bit different to the Mail article.

brilliant post and exactly what I said though far more eloquently on your part...

welcome back by the way..

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:09 am

Actually Victors argument is his view on what he thinks in regards to religions having any accommodation, which again as long as they do not conflict with British law, then I do not see a problem, as already our laws on inheritance already allows for discrimination, because it allows people the choice to decide who gets what. Now if that is wrong then the debate is directed in the wrong direction because the problem should be on whether people can discriminate in their wills

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:34 am

Didge wrote:Actually Victors argument is his view on what he thinks in regards to religions having any accommodation, which again as long as they do not conflict with British law, then I do not see a problem, as already our laws on inheritance already allows for discrimination, because it allows people the choice to decide who gets what. Now if that is wrong then the debate is directed in the wrong direction because the problem should be on whether people can discriminate in their wills

if it agrees extra because of compliance with sharia law then it is wrong.

by Irn Bru Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:16 am

Someone can ignore their family and leave their entire wealth and belongings to a cat or a dog or anything else that they like. They still can.

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:16 am

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:
Didge wrote:Actually Victors argument is his view on what he thinks in regards to religions having any accommodation, which again as long as they do not conflict with British law, then I do not see a problem, as already our laws on inheritance already allows for discrimination, because it allows people the choice to decide who gets what. Now if that is wrong then the debate is directed in the wrong direction because the problem should be on whether people can discriminate in their wills

if it agrees extra because of compliance with sharia law then it is wrong.

What is extra?

It will only be drawn up if it complies with British law and as seen British law allows discrimination within wills

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:20 am

I'm sure we'll all step aside and let the experts have their say on this:

Some lawyers, however, described the guidance as “astonishing”, while campaigners warned it represented a major step on the road to a “parallel legal system” for Britain’s Muslim communities.

Baroness Cox, a cross-bench peer leading a Parliamentary campaign to protect women from religiously sanctioned discrimination, including from unofficial Sharia courts in Britain, said it was a “deeply disturbing” development and pledged to raise it with ministers.

“This violates everything that we stand for,” she said. “It would make the Suffragettes turn in their graves.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:21 am

BigAndy9 wrote:I'm sure we'll all step aside and let the experts have their say on this:

Some lawyers, however, described the guidance as “astonishing”, while campaigners warned it represented a major step on the road to a “parallel legal system” for Britain’s Muslim communities.

Baroness Cox, a cross-bench peer leading a Parliamentary campaign to protect women from religiously sanctioned discrimination, including from unofficial Sharia courts in Britain, said it was a “deeply disturbing” development and pledged to raise it with ministers.

“This violates everything that we stand for,” she said. “It would make the Suffragettes turn in their graves.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10716844/Islamic-law-is-adopted-by-British-legal-chiefs.html

Interesting, what is being violated exactly when British law allows people to discriminate who they leave their money too?

by Irn Bru Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:21 am

victorisnotamused wrote:
Sassy wrote:Lets have the facts of the matter shall we.

Law Society Issues Guidance on Sharia Wills
18th March 2014

The Law Society has issued new guidance on drawing up wills that incorporate principles of Sharia law in response to growing demand from the Muslim community. The guidance comes as courts have made clear that they are prepared to endorse marital financial agreements made under Sharia if they comply with English law.

Considering that "prenuptial agreements" are NOT binding in british law (yet) and can be set aside at the whim of the judge if he deems them unreasonable (particularly to the woman) EITHER...that is leagal nonsense...or sharia is "creeping its way in"

The new advice says that clients in England and Wales can legally choose to bequeath their assets according to Sharia, providing that the will is signed in accordance with the requirements set out in the Wills Act 1837. The Law Society, the professional body for 150,000 solicitors, has received an increasing number of requests from solicitors who say that clients want wills that will withstand challenges in the courts while complying with their religious principles.
- See more at: http://www.ibblaw.co.uk/blog/2014/03/18/law-society-issues-guidance-on-sharia-wills#sthash.q3eyHewy.dpuf

So they want to do wills according to their religious beliefs that comply with English Law. Exactly the same as Jewish people have done for many, many years.

You dont see it do you....DAMN their religious beliefs, compliance with british law is ALL that matters, there should be NO consideration of "religion" in law..

Bit different to the Mail article.

Roman Catholics may not think of themselves as British as some others because not one of them is legally able to be a reigning monarch of the Britain or the Commonwealth.
British law is fundamentally based on religion and the reigning monarch has to sign of all acts of parliament covering the laws of this country.

by Guest Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:24 am

The Lawyers' Secular Society had this to say:

Practice notes are guidance issued by the Law Society for specific areas of law. This practice note contains the following wording:

“The male heirs in most cases receive double the amount inherited by a female heir of the same class. Non-Muslims may not inherit at all, and only Muslim marriages are recognised.”

“…illegitimate and adopted children are not Sharia heirs.”

Commenting, LSS Secretary Charlie Klendjian said:

“This is a very worrying move by the Law Society, and the LSS strongly condemns them for issuing this practice note.

“By issuing this practice note the Law Society is legitimising and normalising – or at the very least being seen to legitimise and normalise – the distribution of assets in accordance with the discriminatory provisions of Sharia law. The Law Society is therefore being seen to legitimise and normalise Sharia law more generally. This is a matter of grave concern for the LSS given that Sharia law is inherently discriminatory against women and non-Muslims.

“As a matter of law, testators (the person making the will) can generally dispose of their assets as they wish, but there are restrictions to this principle, for example to ensure dependants are provided for.

“Although the Law Society’s practice note does not change the law, it does undermine, for example, the way adopted children, children born out of wedlock, and children who are deemed to be of another faith are viewed. This is a worrying precedent to set. At the very least this practice note undermines the dignity of these children; at the worst it starts to slowly undermine the legal protections rightly afforded to them.

“The practice note is dangerous to the priceless notion of equality before the law for people of all faiths and none. It potentially paves the way, ultimately, for a change in the law so that different laws of intestacy (the situation where someone dies without making a will) are applied to Muslims, or those who are deemed to be Muslims.

“The practice note states that ‘there are specific differences between Sunni and Shia rules on succession. These differences are not covered in this practice note’. In time will the Law Society publish different guidance notes for different branches of Islam?

“The LSS calls on the Law Society to withdraw its shocking practice note without delay.”

http://lawyerssecularsociety.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/lss-condemns-law-societys-practice-note-on-sharia-compliant-wills/

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