The Oxford Astrazenica vaccine.

With all the bad publicity about it causing blood clots on the brain, even though only a miniscule amount of people have died from them compared to the many millions of people who have actually had the OAZ vaccination, has it changed your mind in any way?

I have had my first jab, I will definitely have the second jab, but I can't help wishing I had been offered one of the other vaccines that have caused a lot less controversy.

Well... They don't want to give it to people under the age of 30-40 years old because it might have a higher rate of death from the vaccine than the virus will have ever caused...


And we know that there has been a huge percentage of the UK population who have already had the virus with no symptoms or mild/moderate symptoms like a cold/flu... And this being many times the "official number" by confirmed test results ..


Plus it has been shown in a BBC/sky news undercover report that testing lab practices are so sloppy that cross contamination of samples undergoing testing is likely to be showing up a large percentage of false positives ..


And we also know that large numbers of people who were already dying have had covid added to their death certs which has artificially runup the numbers too!


There are a lot of people making a lot of money out of all this... And who will want to keep it going as long as possible by kerping on fudging the figures...

So far only THREE people under the age of 30 have died of blood clots possibly related to the vaccination.


"By contrast, Covid kills one in eight people who are infected over the age of 75, and one in 1,000 infected in their 40s among those who develop symptoms.

It is less clear cut for those under 30, who are much less likely to die of Covid - although the AstraZeneca vaccine still presents more benefit than risk.

However, other vaccines may be an even better bet."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56665517

Having said that...my grandson is 24, because he works for the NHS he had already had his first vaccination before all this latest news was published, and it was the OxfordAZ.
I would have felt better if he had been given an alternative.

Didn't they stop giving it to people under 30?

We don't have it here that I know of..

Maddog wrote:Didn't they stop giving it to people under 30?  

We don't have it here that I know of..

The under 30's are now being offered an alternative, we have two others available, the Pfizer and Moderna .

But for the younger ones who have already had the first jab they will have no choice if they had the Oxford one originally.

According to Dean Ashish K. Jha, MD, MPH, head of Brown University School of Public Health, the risk of blood clotting with the Astra Zeneca vaccine is so miniscule that it ranks with many other medicines that we take routinely.

What makes it sound bad is that other vaccines, against which it is judged, are without any such risks.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:Didn't they stop giving it to people under 30?  

We don't have it here that I know of..

The under 30's are now being offered an alternative, we have two others available, the Pfizer and Moderna .

But for the younger ones who have already had the first jab they will have no choice if they had the Oxford one originally.

If you know anyone that has a choice, have them get the Pfizer. They are both very effective, but the Moderna seems to be making people feel shitty after the 2nd shot.

Of course if you're under 30 and healthy as a horse, I don't know if I would recommend any experimental vaccine. At least until someone forces you to prove vaccination to do something you want to do.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

The under 30's are now being offered an alternative, we have two others available, the Pfizer and Moderna .

But for the younger ones who have already had the first jab they will have no choice if they had the Oxford one originally.

If you know anyone that has a choice, have them get the Pfizer. They are both very effective, but the Moderna seems to be making people feel shitty after the 2nd shot.  

Of course if you're under 30 and healthy as a horse, I don't know if I would recommend any experimental vaccine. At least until someone forces you to prove vaccination to do something you want to do.  

We dont have a choice here , as I said, the Oxford wont be given to under 30's from now on unless they have already had the 1st jab, but they won't have a choice between the other two.

As for feeling bad after the jab, I know a few people who have felt rough after both the Oxford and the Pfizer, the Moderna was only introduced here yesterday.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

If you know anyone that has a choice, have them get the Pfizer. They are both very effective, but the Moderna seems to be making people feel shitty after the 2nd shot.  

Of course if you're under 30 and healthy as a horse, I don't know if I would recommend any experimental vaccine. At least until someone forces you to prove vaccination to do something you want to do.  

We dont have a choice here , as I said, the Oxford wont be given to under 30's from now on unless they have already had the 1st jab, but they won't have a choice between the other two.

As for feeling bad after the jab, I know a few people who have felt rough after both the Oxford and the Pfizer, the Moderna was only introduced here yesterday.

Well, choice is good. Can you not choose your time and place either?

We have another choice here too... The choice not to have any vaccine at all...

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

We dont have a choice here , as I said, the Oxford wont be given to under 30's from now on unless they have already had the 1st jab, but they won't have a choice between the other two.

As for feeling bad after the jab, I know a few people who have felt rough after both the Oxford and the Pfizer, the Moderna was only introduced here yesterday.

Well, choice is good. Can you not choose your time and place either?

Yes you can choose a place, or at least you can refuse a place that's offered and wait to be offered another location. You can't choose a time.

Tommy Monk wrote:

We have another choice here too... The choice not to have any vaccine at all...

Thankfully, the majority of people haven't chosen that option.
Black and Asian people seem to be most reluctant, and there has been a lot of encouragement for them to speak to people about the vaccine to reassure them it's the right thing to do, for them, their families, and for society in general.

I do think the all the exaggerated publicity about brain clots and OAZ will put some people off getting the jab though.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Well, choice is good. Can you not choose your time and place either?

Yes you can choose a place, or at least you can refuse a place that's offered and wait to be offered another location. You can't choose a time.

Well, at least you have some options and are not entirely at the will of your government.

For the record, Fauci sorta changed positions on herd immunity again, when pressed. He said those that have had it, count towards herd immunity same as those vaccinated.

I'm really tired of these scientists getting political. He knew this all the time but wants everyone vaccinated anyway.

I'll go ahead and get my second shot, even though it probably isn't doing me a damn bit of good and I can have that damn piece of paper in the event I need it.

But it just adds to my distrust of people working for the government.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

Yes you can choose a place, or at least you can refuse a place that's offered and wait to be offered another location. You can't choose a time.

Well, at least you have some options and are not entirely at the will of your government.

For the record, Fauci sorta changed positions on herd immunity again, when pressed. He said those that have had it, count towards herd immunity same as those vaccinated.

I'm really tired of these scientists getting political. He knew this all the time but wants everyone vaccinated anyway.  

I'll go ahead and get my second shot, even though it probably isn't doing me a damn bit of good and I can have that damn piece of paper in the event I need it.

But it just adds to my distrust of people working for the government.  

I was glad when our government advisors actually came out and said there was a PROBABLE link between the Oxford vaccine and the very small number of unusual brain clots people had suffered after being vaccinated.

To deny it, when different countries have offered their own evidence was beginning to look like a cover up.

I'm pretty sure people would rather know the truth than be lied to, and like has been said, there is a risk with everything we choose to do in life, even taking an aspirin, getting out of bed, eating cheese....and so on.

Syl wrote:I'm pretty sure people would rather know the truth than be lied to...

Unless it's been turned into a political cause.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:I'm pretty sure people would rather know the truth than be lied to...

Unless it's been turned into a political cause.

Even if someone tells the truth for benefit, or to gain power....the truth is surely still better than being fed a lie.

I am sure, re the Oxford vaccine, some EU countries were originally withholding it because it was a UK discovery, and I'm sure when they did eventually find a genuine reason they were elated, but happily when a genuine reason was discovered, the UK government have been very open about it.

The question also arises....the Oxford vaccine has so far been tested closer than other Covid vaccines, hopefully when/if other vaccines are shown to have a link, no mater how tenuous, to probable serious side effects, other countries will be as forthright.

New medications usually have time to show inevitable side effects....these vaccines, by the very nature of why they have been needed, have had no time to be studied and researched.

Syl wrote:Even if someone tells the truth for benefit, or to gain power....the truth is surely still better than being fed a lie.

No doubt. But if the truth is met by political causes, it becomes quite malleable. Polarization sets in, in which case the truth hardly matters.

We have such a case in the US, where governors Abbott (Texas), DeSantis (Florida) and Ducey (Arizona) have decided that the Corona virus poses no threat...and it's Damn the truth, full-steam-ahead!

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:Even if someone tells the truth for benefit, or to gain power....the truth is surely still better than being fed a lie.

No doubt.  But if the truth is met by political causes, it becomes quite malleable.  Polarization sets in, in which case the truth hardly matters.

We have such a case in the US, where governors Abbott (Texas), DeSantis (Florida) and Ducey (Arizona) have decided that the Corona virus poses no threat...and it's Damn the truth, full-steam-ahead!

The truth is that Texas is doing better than California.

But you will no doubt spin that to fit your political ideology.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No doubt.  But if the truth is met by political causes, it becomes quite malleable.  Polarization sets in, in which case the truth hardly matters.

We have such a case in the US, where governors Abbott (Texas), DeSantis (Florida) and Ducey (Arizona) have decided that the Corona virus poses no threat...and it's Damn the truth, full-steam-ahead!

The truth is that Texas is doing better than California.

But you will no doubt spin that to fit your political ideology.  

Nonsense.  California has a rational governor, who believes in science over politics.  Texas has a governor and a legislature which believe in Trumpsterism over science.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The truth is that Texas is doing better than California.

But you will no doubt spin that to fit your political ideology.  

Nonsense.  California has a rational governor, who believes in science over politics.  Texas has a governor and a legislature which believe in Trumpsterism over science.

I rest my case.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nonsense.  California has a rational governor, who believes in science over politics.  Texas has a governor and a legislature which believe in Trumpsterism over science.

I rest my case.

I should think you would...you might consider running!

Is there a marked difference between the infection rates/deaths/vaccination programme between the two states?

CDC data place California’s mortality rate at 137 deaths per 100,000. That’s lower than the national average of 158 deaths per 100,000 and better than rates in Texas and New York. But there are 22 other states with a lower death rate than California, meaning the state is closer to the middle than the low end.

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/03/11/covid-texas-deaths-california-gavin-newsom/4645019001/

Syl wrote:CDC data place California’s mortality rate at 137 deaths per 100,000. That’s lower than the national average of 158 deaths per 100,000 and better than rates in Texas and New York. But there are 22 other states with a lower death rate than California, meaning the state is closer to the middle than the low end.

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/03/11/covid-texas-deaths-california-gavin-newsom/4645019001/

And California’s success was much earlier in the pandemic. It has not been faring well at all, as of late.

And that's with draconian lockdowns that effect everyone, except the governor..

Syl wrote:Is there a marked difference between the infection rates/deaths/vaccination programme between the two states?

I would be careful of asking that of Red. He doesn't know the difference between proportion of the total population, and the raw totals.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:CDC data place California’s mortality rate at 137 deaths per 100,000. That’s lower than the national average of 158 deaths per 100,000 and better than rates in Texas and New York. But there are 22 other states with a lower death rate than California, meaning the state is closer to the middle than the low end.

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/03/11/covid-texas-deaths-california-gavin-newsom/4645019001/

And California’s success was much earlier in the pandemic. It has not been faring well at all, as of late.

And that's with draconian lockdowns that effect everyone, except the governor..

It seems to be swings and roundabouts no matter what precautions are taken or relaxed...I mean everywhere, not just your two states.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

And California’s success was much earlier in the pandemic. It has not been faring well at all, as of late.

And that's with draconian lockdowns that effect everyone, except the governor..

It seems to be swings and roundabouts no matter what precautions are taken or relaxed...I mean everywhere, not just your two states.

It's all down to herd immunity. Either through prior infections or a vaccine.  

Because places like Texas had a little higher rate of infection, especially in those that were younger and in good health (unlike say NY which left too many elderly unprotected) and we got vaccines rolling for those that wanted them, we are basically leading pretty normal lives.

I stopped wearing my mask on Easter. Still probably 60%.of the folks still are even though they don't have to, except where businesses require it.

About all I'm doing is social distancing strangers. I stand about 6 feet away from them.

I'm shaking hands and hugging most of my friends. Still have a few not going there yet.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

It seems to be swings and roundabouts no matter what precautions are taken or relaxed...I mean everywhere, not just your two states.

It's all down to herd immunity. Either through prior infections or a vaccine.  

Because places like Texas had a little higher rate of infection, especially in those that were younger and in good health (unlike say NY which left too many elderly unprotected) and we got vaccines rolling for those that wanted them, we are basically leading pretty normal lives.

I stopped wearing my mask on Easter. Still probably 60%.of the folks still are even though they don't have to, except where businesses require it.

About all I'm doing is social distancing strangers. I stand about 6 feet away from them.

I'm shaking hands and hugging most of my friends. Still have a few not going there yet.

You are a rebel.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's all down to herd immunity. Either through prior infections or a vaccine.  

Because places like Texas had a little higher rate of infection, especially in those that were younger and in good health (unlike say NY which left too many elderly unprotected) and we got vaccines rolling for those that wanted them, we are basically leading pretty normal lives.

I stopped wearing my mask on Easter. Still probably 60%.of the folks still are even though they don't have to, except where businesses require it.

About all I'm doing is social distancing strangers. I stand about 6 feet away from them.

I'm shaking hands and hugging most of my friends. Still have a few not going there yet.

You are a rebel.

Not really. I'm there with a pretty good chunk of the population.

OK, you're right. I tend to sorta do my own thing.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

You are a rebel.

Not really. I'm there with a pretty good chunk of the population.  

OK, you're right.  I tend to sorta do my own thing.

And you are right to do your own thing.
If I had already had the virus and was in my 40's even 50's, I would probably be like you if the vaccination rate was going well.
As it is, I am doing it my way, getting out, mixing more, but still being careful.

FYI
Had the second jab of Moderna today. After first jab, my arm was sore but not unbearable. Day after I was extremely fatigued. Like could hardly get out of bed to just pee fatigued. I worked from home the 2nd day and felt ok but tired. By third day right as rain.

Today 9 hours after 2nd dose arm doesn’t hurt per se just feels very heavy. And I’m starting to feel tired but I had a very busy week at work, didn’t sleep particularly well last night and was up early as junior and I volunteered for a 6 hour shift at the vaccine POD. So it could be anything. I did dose up on potassium and magnesium this last week after advice from the county health department. And lots of water today. I guess I’ll see what happens tomorrow and Monday.

My library helped at another vaccine POD last week here it was the one and done Johnson and Johnson shot. Some people immediately started to have sore arms. A staff member who got it reported he had medium bad flu like symptoms on the Saturday and Sunday morning but felt fine by Sunday night.

Cass wrote:FYI
Had the second jab of Moderna today. After first jab, my arm was sore but not unbearable. Day after I was extremely fatigued. Like could hardly get out of bed to just pee fatigued. I worked from home the 2nd day and felt ok but tired. By third day right as rain.

Today 9 hours after 2nd dose arm doesn’t hurt per se just feels very heavy. And I’m starting to feel tired but I had a very busy week at work, didn’t sleep particularly well last night and was up early as junior and I volunteered for a 6 hour shift at the vaccine POD. So it could be anything. I did dose up on potassium and magnesium this last week after advice from the county health department. And lots of water today. I guess I’ll see what happens tomorrow and Monday.

My library helped at another vaccine POD last week here it was the one and done Johnson and Johnson shot. Some people immediately started to have sore arms. A staff member who got it reported he had medium bad flu like symptoms on the Saturday and Sunday morning but felt fine by Sunday night.

I've heard of problems with all of them, but moreso with the Moderna..I tried to find the Johnson and Johnson but couldn't. Gave up and got the Pfizer.

Only side effects were a desire to ride bikes, drink beer and play with boobies.

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:FYI
Had the second jab of Moderna today. After first jab, my arm was sore but not unbearable. Day after I was extremely fatigued. Like could hardly get out of bed to just pee fatigued. I worked from home the 2nd day and felt ok but tired. By third day right as rain.

Today 9 hours after 2nd dose arm doesn’t hurt per se just feels very heavy. And I’m starting to feel tired but I had a very busy week at work, didn’t sleep particularly well last night and was up early as junior and I volunteered for a 6 hour shift at the vaccine POD. So it could be anything. I did dose up on potassium and magnesium this last week after advice from the county health department. And lots of water today. I guess I’ll see what happens tomorrow and Monday.

My library helped at another vaccine POD last week here it was the one and done Johnson and Johnson shot. Some people immediately started to have sore arms. A staff member who got it reported he had medium bad flu like symptoms on the Saturday and Sunday morning but felt fine by Sunday night.

I've heard of problems with all of them, but moreso with the Moderna..I tried to find the Johnson and Johnson but couldn't. Gave up and got the Pfizer.

Only side effects were a desire to ride bikes, drink beer and play with boobies.

It really is varying from each person and each type of vaccine. Sons GF is a nurse, very healthy, active, sensible eater was whammied by both Moderna shots while mum, 72 and hadn’t  been very active before her shots and was still smoking only had a sore arm both times with Moderna. Go figure.

I didn’t want the J&J myself even though I hate needles because it has so far proved to have the lowest effectiveness rate out of all them. We are still not getting a huge amount of J&J here as it all tends to get swept up by Phoenix.

If that’s what you suffered, glad I had the Moderna

Cass wrote:

Maddog wrote:

I've heard of problems with all of them, but moreso with the Moderna..I tried to find the Johnson and Johnson but couldn't. Gave up and got the Pfizer.

Only side effects were a desire to ride bikes, drink beer and play with boobies.

It really is varying from each person and each type of vaccine. Sons GF is a nurse, very healthy, active, sensible eater was whammied by both Moderna shots while mum, 72 and hadn’t  been very active before her shots and was still smoking only had a sore arm both times with Moderna. Go figure.

I didn’t want the J&J myself even though I hate needles because it has so far proved to have the lowest effectiveness rate out of all them. We are still not getting a huge amount of J&J here as it all tends to get swept up by Phoenix.

If that’s what you suffered, glad I had the Moderna

Only reason I wanted J and J was because I already had it.

I figured it was good enough for someone with antibodies.

What's wrong with beer, bikes and boobies?

The beer and bikes are OK, I would be worried about Cass if she got a craving for playing with boobies.

The only reaction I got with the OxfordAZ was a really bad case of the shakes in the night....next morning I was fine, not even a sore arm.

I know several people who have had flu like symptoms after that jab and also the Pfizer, no one (so far) has had any long term after effects.

Maddog wrote:

Cass wrote:FYI
Had the second jab of Moderna today. After first jab, my arm was sore but not unbearable. Day after I was extremely fatigued. Like could hardly get out of bed to just pee fatigued. I worked from home the 2nd day and felt ok but tired. By third day right as rain.

Today 9 hours after 2nd dose arm doesn’t hurt per se just feels very heavy. And I’m starting to feel tired but I had a very busy week at work, didn’t sleep particularly well last night and was up early as junior and I volunteered for a 6 hour shift at the vaccine POD. So it could be anything. I did dose up on potassium and magnesium this last week after advice from the county health department. And lots of water today. I guess I’ll see what happens tomorrow and Monday.

My library helped at another vaccine POD last week here it was the one and done Johnson and Johnson shot. Some people immediately started to have sore arms. A staff member who got it reported he had medium bad flu like symptoms on the Saturday and Sunday morning but felt fine by Sunday night.

I've heard of problems with all of them, but moreso with the Moderna..I tried to find the Johnson and Johnson but couldn't. Gave up and got the Pfizer.

Only side effects were a desire to ride bikes, drink beer and play with boobies.

I got the Pfizer too.  I tried to get the J&J, not just because it was developed by Rutgers University (one of the best bioscience schools this side of Edinburgh), but because it was made the old-fashioned, tried-and-true way.  Pfizer and Moderna are mRNA vaccines.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html

I remember from the Polio vaccine, that 'new' can mean 'oops'. Anyway, J&J wasn't available when I got the vaccine.

"A major UK trial looking at whether Covid vaccines can be mixed with different types of jabs used for first and second doses is being expanded.

Combining vaccines might give broader, longer-lasting immunity against the virus and new variants of it, and offer more flexibility to vaccine rollout."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56730526

Syl wrote: "A major UK trial looking at whether Covid vaccines can be mixed with different types of jabs used for first and second doses is being expanded.

Combining vaccines might give broader, longer-lasting immunity against the virus and new variants of it, and offer more flexibility to vaccine rollout."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56730526

Maybe I'll try to get the Moderna for my second shot.

Some antibodies, some Pfizer and some Moderna should do the trick.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote: "A major UK trial looking at whether Covid vaccines can be mixed with different types of jabs used for first and second doses is being expanded.

Combining vaccines might give broader, longer-lasting immunity against the virus and new variants of it, and offer more flexibility to vaccine rollout."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56730526

Maybe I'll try to get the Moderna for my second shot.  

Some antibodies, some Pfizer and some Moderna should do the trick.

You will be invincible.

I will have whatever they give me.

Finally felt better today with loads of energy. Gah.

But better than the alternative.

Cass wrote:Finally felt better today with loads of energy. Gah.

But better than the alternative.

I have a theory that people who had covid are not nearly as affected by the vaccines. No one that I know that had it, seems to be having any issues.