TEXAS..an exercise in the failure of conservatism

First topic message reminder :

Texas = conservatism >> austerity >> deregulation >> inferior services >> no power >> leaving the public helpless and suffering.



Now, see the sorry excuses:



Sound familiar? Trump-like? Lies? No productivity because inferior grid, because of deregulation, because of austerity, because of inferior governing:

Texas is the only state in the union that de-couples from the nationwide power grid, and goes it alone with the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT). The Republican government of Texas is solely responsible for the losses and unreliability of Texas power. ERCOT is a membership-based 501(c)(4) nonprofit corporation, governed by a board of directors and subject to oversight by the Public Utility Commission of Texas and the Texas Legislature.

No heat because of no fossil fuels. Delivery for natural gas frozen. No electricity because no power generators. No water because no pumps, and inferior distribution facility freezing. People dying because burning alternative fuels indoors: automobiles; charcoal; propane...etc. Suspension of all vaccine activity. Hospitals exporting patients to other states. All because of austerity >> deregulation >> inferior services >> huge failure for the people of Texas >> illness and death.

In the next decade Texas will become a blue state. Note the difference when that happens.

Well in an endeavor for a short answer   one would be the right for a woman to have an abortion of her own free will another would be to Visit Cuba

Maddog wrote:You're a fucking bore parading around like some kind of an intellectual.

Well, you like to personalize and judge others, rather than deal with ideas on an abstract plane.  But a debate forum works best when you forget about judging others, and deal with the topics.

It's not your personal responsibility to make-over the personalities of others.  Growing up, you should have developed skills to deal with different styles and different people,  Otherwise, you're in a perpetual state of war with others...which might explain the south, the guns, the feuding, and so forth.

Maddog wrote:I don't mind long answers that say something relevant.

I don't think you do, either.  I think you use that ruse to hide your proclivity to try to dictate to others what they should (in your opinion) say and think.  In other words, you're a subliminal, petite tyrant, wanting to tell others what to do.  But you have to hide that.

Maddog wrote:You just have diarrhea of the mouth.

Which is another way of saying—by putting it crudely—that you don't like what I represent.  You could just deal with what I say, but you feel you have to go further and personalize.  Which means, you feel threatened by my saying what I say, and it's really your fear of your own trepidation...your own weakness.  So, you get down to attacking the person rather than the idea because, in your own mind, it's personal to you.

It’s a malaise common to the south.  Hence the violence, the guns and the racism.  The unthoughtful often interpret their own insecurity as owing to the ‘other’, and so they get busy expressing their own frustration with themselves, as frustration with others.  They project, not intentionally, but subliminally.

I’m reminded of Dylann Roof, who murdered all those black church women in Columbia, South Carolina. When asked why he did it, he said: “They [blacks] are raping our women.” Now, that’s a man who fears his own weakness. Very typical of the south.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:You're a fucking bore parading around like some kind of an intellectual.

Well, you like to personalize and judge others, rather than deal with ideas on an abstract plane.  But a debate forum works best when you forget about judging others, and deal with the topics.

It's not your personal responsibility to make-over the personalities of others.  Growing up, you should have developed skills to deal with different styles and different people,  Otherwise, you're in a perpetual state of war with others...which might explain the south, the guns, the feuding, and so forth.

Maddog wrote:I don't mind long answers that say something relevant.

I don't think you do, either.  I think you use that ruse to hide your proclivity to try to dictate to others what they should (in your opinion) say and think.  In other words, you're a subliminal, petite tyrant, wanting to tell others what to do.  But you have to hide that.

Maddog wrote:You just have diarrhea of the mouth.

Which is another way of saying—by putting it crudely—that you don't like what I represent.  You could just deal with what I say, but you feel you have to go further and personalize.  Which means, you feel threatened by my saying what I say, and it's really your fear of your own trepidation...your own weakness.  So, you get down to attacking the person rather than the idea because, in your own mind, it's personal to you.

It’s a malaise common to the south.  Hence the violence, the guns and the racism.  The unthoughtful often interpret their own insecurity as owing to the ‘other’, and so they get busy expressing their own frustration with themselves, as frustration with others.  They project, not intentionally, but subliminally.

I’m reminded of Dylann Roof, who murdered all those black church women in Columbia, South Carolina.  When asked why he did it, he said: “They [blacks] are raping our women.”  Now, that’s a man who fears his own weakness.  Very typical of the south.

Fuck me. Is your solution to being called out for your bullshit going to be to produce more bullshit?

Everybody speaks bullshit, except you...right Red?  Maybe you should consider why it is you, out on an island.  You feel threatened, and that's why you're so passionate about your bullying.

In truth, nobody is threatening you.  Try joining the conversation instead of drawing your gun every time someone disagrees with you.

Oh FFS!!!


Korben still cannot understand the difference between total power provided by renewables, and the amount of power that was lost by being taken off grid...!!!


One more time... Of the power that was taken off grid because of production failure, a third of this lost power generation was from wind/renewables!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Oh FFS!!!

Korben still cannot understand the difference between total power provided by renewables, and the amount of power that was lost by being taken off grid...!!!

One more time... Of the power that was taken off grid because of production failure, a third of this lost power generation was from wind/renewables!!!

You need to add one element to your equation, tom. The power was lost by cheap, low-cost renewables.

Texas is heavily into oil, and I mean as an ideology, not just an energy source. Texans work the oil rigs, and broker the supply. They build the pipelines and drive the trucks. This leads to a lack of enthusiasm and faith in so-called renewables that undercut their way of life...indeed, they almost wish that renewable technology would fail.

Of course, when they ultimately bought into the technology, they bought the cheapest product and the cheapest parts. Texas didn't waste money on insulated turbines, nor did they see the need for de-icing fan blades—things that keep the equipment running just fine in Kansas, Montana and Alaska. Texans almost hoped they would fail, to defiantly prove their premise: fossil fuel was the only reliable energy.

This pervasive philosophy merged with the deregulation mentality: ditch safety and reliability, and keep costs low. We need to save our pitiful shekels!. Just like anything, when you buy low, it ain’t there when you need it. Texas suffered the consequences of their own ideology.

Original Quill wrote:Everybody speaks bullshit, except you...right Red?  Maybe you should consider why it is you, out on an island.  You feel threatened, and that's why you're so passionate about your bullying.

In truth, nobody is threatening you.  Try joining the conversation instead of drawing your gun every time someone disagrees with you.

I converse with good conversationalists just fine. Sorry that doesn't include you.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Oh FFS!!!

Korben still cannot understand the difference between total power provided by renewables, and the amount of power that was lost by being taken off grid...!!!

One more time... Of the power that was taken off grid because of production failure, a third of this lost power generation was from wind/renewables!!!

You need to add one element to your equation, tom.  The power was lost by cheap, low-cost renewables.

Texas is heavily into oil, and I mean as an ideology, not just an energy source.  Texans work the oil rigs, and broker the supply.  They build the pipelines and drive the trucks.  This leads to a lack of enthusiasm and faith in so-called renewables that undercut their way of life...indeed, they almost wish that renewable technology would fail.

Of course, when they ultimately bought into the technology, they bought the cheapest product and the cheapest parts.  Texas didn't waste money on insulated turbines, nor did they see the need for de-icing fan blades—things that keep the equipment running just fine in Kansas, Montana and Alaska.  Texans almost hoped they would fail, to defiantly prove their premise: fossil fuel was the only reliable energy.

This pervasive philosophy merged with the deregulation mentality: ditch safety and reliability, and keep costs low.  We need to save our pitiful shekels!.  Just like anything, when you buy low, it ain’t there when you need it.  Texas suffered the consequences of their own ideology.

What causes all the rolling blackouts in California?

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Everybody speaks bullshit, except you...right Red?  Maybe you should consider why it is you, out on an island.  You feel threatened, and that's why you're so passionate about your bullying.

In truth, nobody is threatening you.  Try joining the conversation instead of drawing your gun every time someone disagrees with you.

I converse with good conversationalists just fine. Sorry that doesn't include you.  

So, you admit that you don't communicate fully and completely. That's due to two things: 1) you don't have good neutrality skills (patience among them), which causes you to personalize, and lose the point on a fair and neutral plane; and 2) your (southern) quick-to-anger personality interferes, causing you to resort to violence, laud guns, and have little tolerance for those close to you (ie, women).

You lack discipline in your emotions, and that affects your thinking. You need to accept, in order to improve. Otherwise, you'll go to your grave stuck in this lower gear, unable to attain real efficiency-of-mind.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:


I converse with good conversationalists just fine. Sorry that doesn't include you.  

So, you admit that you don't communicate fully and completely.  That's due to two things: 1) you don't have good neutrality skills (patience among them), which causes you to personalize, and lose the point on a fair and neutral plane; and 2) your (southern) quick-to-anger personality interferes, causing you to resort to violence, laud guns, and have little tolerance for those close to you (ie, women).

You lack discipline in your emotions, and that affects your thinking.  You need to accept, in order to improve.  Otherwise, you'll go to your grave stuck in this lower gear, unable to attain real efficiency-of-mind.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

You need to add one element to your equation, tom.  The power was lost by cheap, low-cost renewables.

Texas is heavily into oil, and I mean as an ideology, not just an energy source.  Texans work the oil rigs, and broker the supply.  They build the pipelines and drive the trucks.  This leads to a lack of enthusiasm and faith in so-called renewables that undercut their way of life...indeed, they almost wish that renewable technology would fail.

Of course, when they ultimately bought into the technology, they bought the cheapest product and the cheapest parts.  Texas didn't waste money on insulated turbines, nor did they see the need for de-icing fan blades—things that keep the equipment running just fine in Kansas, Montana and Alaska.  Texans almost hoped they would fail, to defiantly prove their premise: fossil fuel was the only reliable energy.

This pervasive philosophy merged with the deregulation mentality: ditch safety and reliability, and keep costs low.  We need to save our pitiful shekels!.  Just like anything, when you buy low, it ain’t there when you need it.  Texas suffered the consequences of their own ideology.

What causes all the rolling blackouts in California?

Are we back onto our whataboutism kick.  It's a false equivalency.  California doesn't worship fossil fuels like Texans.  

Living in California, I'll just tell you: lack of rivers on the western slope of the Rocky Mountains creates droughts; lack of water creates fire danger; electric grids spark fires...

Therefore, power companies voluntarily turn off electric grids during high fire-danger times.

Korben wrote:https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Korben, the LA Times requires a subscription in order to view--at least, in California. If you have alternate link, we can hook up to your reference.

Korben wrote:https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Yes, they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity when it gets warm. Neighboring states don't have any spare electricity to ship them.

They don't have a rare natural disaster knocking producers off line. They don't have enough producers of electricity.

Original Quill wrote:

Korben wrote:https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Korben, the LA Times requires a subscription in order to view--at least, in California.  If you have alternate link, we can hook up to your reference.

You live there and should already know the answer.

I did.

Maddog wrote:

Korben wrote:https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Yes, they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity when it gets warm. Neighboring states don't have any spare electricity to ship them.  

They don't have a rare natural disaster knocking producers off line.  They don't have enough producers of electricity.  

Total nonsense.  Another RW lie to cover their lack of any equivalency.

The electric companies voluntarily turn off their power in times of high fire-danger.  California has huge green areas with lots of conifer forests.  Actually, the fires are a part of the ecology, clearing out large areas to allow natural, beautiful growth.

But homes are put in danger, so the power companies don't want to risk igniting the fires.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/15/why-californias-climate-policies-are-causing-electricity-black-outs/

Here's another for professor Quill.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yes, they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity when it gets warm. Neighboring states don't have any spare electricity to ship them.  

They don't have a rare natural disaster knocking producers off line.  They don't have enough producers of electricity.  

Total nonsense.  Another RW lie to cover their lack of any equivalency.

The electric companies voluntarily turn off their power in times of high fire-danger.  California has huge green areas with lots of conifer forests.  Actually, the fires are a part of the ecology, clearing out large areas to allow natural, beautiful growth.

But homes are put in danger, so the power companies don't want to risk it.

You're lying again.

And I'll continue to call you out on it.

Maddog wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/15/why-californias-climate-policies-are-causing-electricity-black-outs/

Here's another for professor Quill.

Another site that doesn't come through.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yes, they don't have the ability to produce enough electricity when it gets warm. Neighboring states don't have any spare electricity to ship them.  

They don't have a rare natural disaster knocking producers off line.  They don't have enough producers of electricity.  

Total nonsense.  Another RW lie to cover their lack of any equivalency.

The electric companies voluntarily turn off their power in times of high fire-danger.  California has huge green areas with lots of conifer forests.  Actually, the fires are a part of the ecology, clearing out large areas to allow natural, beautiful growth.

But homes are put in danger, so the power companies don't want to risk igniting the fires.

"California suffered its first rolling blackouts in nearly 20 years because energy planners didn’t take climate change into account and didn’t line up the right power sources to keep the lights on after sundown, according to a damning self-evaluation released Tuesday by three state agencies."


From the first paragraph of the article you were too fucking stupid to access.

Original Quill wrote:

Korben wrote:https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planning

Korben, the LA Times requires a subscription in order to view--at least, in California.  If you have alternate link, we can hook up to your reference.

er you sure ? i obliviously dont have a subscription but can read it

this is it Hope that helps

By Sammy RothStaff Writer
Oct. 6, 2020 7:03 PM PT

California suffered its first rolling blackouts in nearly 20 years because energy planners didn’t take climate change into account and didn’t line up the right power sources to keep the lights on after sundown, according to a damning self-evaluation released Tuesday by three state agencies.

The rotating power outages didn’t last long and affected only a small fraction of the state’s 40 million people. Just under half a million homes and businesses lost power for as little as 15 minutes and as long as 2½ hours on Aug. 14, with another 321,000 utility customers going dark for anywhere from eight to 90 minutes the following evening.

But officials should have been prepared for the climate-driven extreme heat that caused electricity demand to soar and briefly left the nation’s largest state without sufficient power supplies, the state’s Energy Commission, Independent System Operator and Public Utilities Commission acknowledged in a preliminary “root cause analysis” demanded by Gov. Gavin Newsom.

The immediate cause of the power shortages was the heat storm, which saw California experience four of its five hottest August days in the last 35 years, the analysis found. Temperature records were shattered across the American West, limiting the Golden State’s ability to make up for its energy deficit by importing electrons from other states.

State agencies failed to adequately plan for that type of heat event despite knowing how quickly the world is heating up, the report concluded. They also failed to direct electricity providers to buy sufficient power supplies to cover the evening hours when solar panels go offline. And they created complex energy market mechanisms that masked the inadequacies.

“The combination of these factors was an extraordinary event. But it is our responsibility and intent to plan for such events, which are becoming increasingly common in a world rapidly being impacted by climate change,” wrote Independent System Operator President Elliot Mainzer, Public Utilities Commission President Marybel Batjer and Energy Commission Chair David Hochschild.

Careful planning to ensure adequate power supplies will become even more important as California phases out fossil fuels and moves toward 60% renewable energy by 2030 and 100% climate-friendly energy by 2045, as required by state law.

Officials have consistently said that intermittent power sources such as solar panels and wind turbines didn’t cause the rolling blackouts. But gas-burning power plants that can fire up when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing have been shutting down in recent years, and California has largely failed to replace them with cleaner alternatives such as lithium-ion batteries.

State officials say they’ve been working to get more of those clean resources built but were caught off guard by the intensity and region-wide nature of the August heat wave. California nearly experienced more rolling blackouts over Labor Day weekend.

“Our planning processes may have been a year or two off on when we needed to have the resources available,” said Ed Randolph, director of the Public Utilities Commission’s energy division. “We’ll absolutely need more steel in the ground.”

The root cause analysis also faults market mechanisms put in place by the Independent System Operator, a nonprofit corporation that oversees the power grid for most of the state. A program known as convergence bidding, in particular, is meant to help keep electricity prices steady but instead “masked tight supply conditions” during the August heat wave, the analysis concluded.

Another way markets didn’t function as intended: Energy providers collectively under-scheduled the amount of electricity they expected to need. That allowed power plant operators to sell their juice to customers in other states, resulting in thousands of megawatts being exported even as the Independent System Operator warned that rolling blackouts were imminent.

Mark Rothleder, the grid operator’s vice president for market quality and regulatory affairs, said it’s not yet clear which utilities or other energy providers under-scheduled their demand. He said the analysis is preliminary, with more to come later this year.

Loretta Lynch, a former president of the Public Utilities Commission, is skeptical that the root cause analysis tells the full story.

Lynch led the utilities commission during the early-2000s energy crisis, which saw Enron and other corporate power traders take advantage of California ratepayers by manipulating a poorly designed electricity market to drive profits. She’s worried something similar could be happening now, even as the Independent System Operator says its markets are mostly functioning properly.

“The ISO’s preliminary analysis leaves more unanswered questions than answers,” she said in an email.

Korben wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Korben, the LA Times requires a subscription in order to view--at least, in California.  If you have alternate link, we can hook up to your reference.

er you sure ? i obliviously dont have a subscription but can read it

this is it Hope that helps

By Sammy RothStaff Writer
Oct. 6, 2020 7:03 PM PT

California suffered its first rolling blackouts in nearly 20 years because energy planners didn’t take climate change into account and didn’t line up the right power sources to keep the lights on after sundown, according to a damning self-evaluation released Tuesday by three state agencies.

The rotating power outages didn’t last long and affected only a small fraction of the state’s 40 million people. Just under half a million homes and businesses lost power for as little as 15 minutes and as long as 2½ hours on Aug. 14, with another 321,000 utility customers going dark for anywhere from eight to 90 minutes the following evening.

But officials should have been prepared for the climate-driven extreme heat that caused electricity demand to soar and briefly left the nation’s largest state without sufficient power supplies, the state’s Energy Commission, Independent System Operator and Public Utilities Commission acknowledged in a preliminary “root cause analysis” demanded by Gov. Gavin Newsom.

The immediate cause of the power shortages was the heat storm, which saw California experience four of its five hottest August days in the last 35 years, the analysis found. Temperature records were shattered across the American West, limiting the Golden State’s ability to make up for its energy deficit by importing electrons from other states.

State agencies failed to adequately plan for that type of heat event despite knowing how quickly the world is heating up, the report concluded. They also failed to direct electricity providers to buy sufficient power supplies to cover the evening hours when solar panels go offline. And they created complex energy market mechanisms that masked the inadequacies.

“The combination of these factors was an extraordinary event. But it is our responsibility and intent to plan for such events, which are becoming increasingly common in a world rapidly being impacted by climate change,” wrote Independent System Operator President Elliot Mainzer, Public Utilities Commission President Marybel Batjer and Energy Commission Chair David Hochschild.

Careful planning to ensure adequate power supplies will become even more important as California phases out fossil fuels and moves toward 60% renewable energy by 2030 and 100% climate-friendly energy by 2045, as required by state law.

Officials have consistently said that intermittent power sources such as solar panels and wind turbines didn’t cause the rolling blackouts. But gas-burning power plants that can fire up when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing have been shutting down in recent years, and California has largely failed to replace them with cleaner alternatives such as lithium-ion batteries.

State officials say they’ve been working to get more of those clean resources built but were caught off guard by the intensity and region-wide nature of the August heat wave. California nearly experienced more rolling blackouts over Labor Day weekend.

“Our planning processes may have been a year or two off on when we needed to have the resources available,” said Ed Randolph, director of the Public Utilities Commission’s energy division. “We’ll absolutely need more steel in the ground.”

The root cause analysis also faults market mechanisms put in place by the Independent System Operator, a nonprofit corporation that oversees the power grid for most of the state. A program known as convergence bidding, in particular, is meant to help keep electricity prices steady but instead “masked tight supply conditions” during the August heat wave, the analysis concluded.

Another way markets didn’t function as intended: Energy providers collectively under-scheduled the amount of electricity they expected to need. That allowed power plant operators to sell their juice to customers in other states, resulting in thousands of megawatts being exported even as the Independent System Operator warned that rolling blackouts were imminent.

Mark Rothleder, the grid operator’s vice president for market quality and regulatory affairs, said it’s not yet clear which utilities or other energy providers under-scheduled their demand. He said the analysis is preliminary, with more to come later this year.

Loretta Lynch, a former president of the Public Utilities Commission, is skeptical that the root cause analysis tells the full story.

Lynch led the utilities commission during the early-2000s energy crisis, which saw Enron and other corporate power traders take advantage of California ratepayers by manipulating a poorly designed electricity market to drive profits. She’s worried something similar could be happening now, even as the Independent System Operator says its markets are mostly functioning properly.

“The ISO’s preliminary analysis leaves more unanswered questions than answers,” she said in an email.

I could read it too. He sometimes has problems using links that don't confirm his biases.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/15/why-californias-climate-policies-are-causing-electricity-black-outs/

Here's another for professor Quill.

Another site that doesn't come through.

It does for me as well....sounds like it could be a issue at your end Quill

Korben wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Korben, the LA Times requires a subscription in order to view--at least, in California.  If you have alternate link, we can hook up to your reference.

er you sure ? i obliviously dont have a subscription but can read it

this is it Hope that helps

By Sammy RothStaff Writer
Oct. 6, 2020 7:03 PM PT

California suffered its first rolling blackouts in nearly 20 years because energy planners didn’t take climate change into account and didn’t line up the right power sources to keep the lights on after sundown, according to a damning self-evaluation released Tuesday by three state agencies.

The rotating power outages didn’t last long and affected only a small fraction of the state’s 40 million people. Just under half a million homes and businesses lost power for as little as 15 minutes and as long as 2½ hours on Aug. 14, with another 321,000 utility customers going dark for anywhere from eight to 90 minutes the following evening.

But officials should have been prepared for the climate-driven extreme heat that caused electricity demand to soar and briefly left the nation’s largest state without sufficient power supplies, the state’s Energy Commission, Independent System Operator and Public Utilities Commission acknowledged in a preliminary “root cause analysis” demanded by Gov. Gavin Newsom.

The immediate cause of the power shortages was the heat storm, which saw California experience four of its five hottest August days in the last 35 years, the analysis found. Temperature records were shattered across the American West, limiting the Golden State’s ability to make up for its energy deficit by importing electrons from other states.

State agencies failed to adequately plan for that type of heat event despite knowing how quickly the world is heating up, the report concluded. They also failed to direct electricity providers to buy sufficient power supplies to cover the evening hours when solar panels go offline. And they created complex energy market mechanisms that masked the inadequacies.

“The combination of these factors was an extraordinary event. But it is our responsibility and intent to plan for such events, which are becoming increasingly common in a world rapidly being impacted by climate change,” wrote Independent System Operator President Elliot Mainzer, Public Utilities Commission President Marybel Batjer and Energy Commission Chair David Hochschild.

Careful planning to ensure adequate power supplies will become even more important as California phases out fossil fuels and moves toward 60% renewable energy by 2030 and 100% climate-friendly energy by 2045, as required by state law.

Officials have consistently said that intermittent power sources such as solar panels and wind turbines didn’t cause the rolling blackouts. But gas-burning power plants that can fire up when the sun isn’t shining or the wind isn’t blowing have been shutting down in recent years, and California has largely failed to replace them with cleaner alternatives such as lithium-ion batteries.

State officials say they’ve been working to get more of those clean resources built but were caught off guard by the intensity and region-wide nature of the August heat wave. California nearly experienced more rolling blackouts over Labor Day weekend.

“Our planning processes may have been a year or two off on when we needed to have the resources available,” said Ed Randolph, director of the Public Utilities Commission’s energy division. “We’ll absolutely need more steel in the ground.”

The root cause analysis also faults market mechanisms put in place by the Independent System Operator, a nonprofit corporation that oversees the power grid for most of the state. A program known as convergence bidding, in particular, is meant to help keep electricity prices steady but instead “masked tight supply conditions” during the August heat wave, the analysis concluded.

Another way markets didn’t function as intended: Energy providers collectively under-scheduled the amount of electricity they expected to need. That allowed power plant operators to sell their juice to customers in other states, resulting in thousands of megawatts being exported even as the Independent System Operator warned that rolling blackouts were imminent.

Mark Rothleder, the grid operator’s vice president for market quality and regulatory affairs, said it’s not yet clear which utilities or other energy providers under-scheduled their demand. He said the analysis is preliminary, with more to come later this year.

Loretta Lynch, a former president of the Public Utilities Commission, is skeptical that the root cause analysis tells the full story.

Lynch led the utilities commission during the early-2000s energy crisis, which saw Enron and other corporate power traders take advantage of California ratepayers by manipulating a poorly designed electricity market to drive profits. She’s worried something similar could be happening now, even as the Independent System Operator says its markets are mostly functioning properly.

“The ISO’s preliminary analysis leaves more unanswered questions than answers,” she said in an email.

I could read it too. He sometimes has problems using links that don't confirm his biases.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Total nonsense.  Another RW lie to cover their lack of any equivalency.

The electric companies voluntarily turn off their power in times of high fire-danger.  California has huge green areas with lots of conifer forests.  Actually, the fires are a part of the ecology, clearing out large areas to allow natural, beautiful growth.

But homes are put in danger, so the power companies don't want to risk it.

You're lying again.  

And I'll continue to call you out on it.  

Southerners are not intelligent enough to figure systemic things out. And northern Republicans are too greedy to care.

I live in California, and hear the reports every day, particularly summer to fall. The blackouts are voluntary, to avoid the risk of igniting fires, which in turn, risk destroying whole towns and their homes.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

You're lying again.  

And I'll continue to call you out on it.  

Southerners are not intelligent enough to figure systemic things out.  And northern Republicans are too greedy to care.

I live in California, and hear the reports every day, particularly summer to fall.  The blackouts are voluntary, to avoid the risk of igniting fires, which in turn, risk destroying whole towns and their homes.

Read Korbins link.

https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10

And those transmission lines that start fatal fires could be made safer. The fires are preventable.

Also the need to move all of that electricity into the state is a result of California not being able to produce enough electricity.

Thank you, Korben.  Because of you, I've been able to read the article.  Newspapers are hard pressed to make a living in these days, so they limit access in order to create alternative revenue centers.  That's probably the reason why it's not available to Californians.

As to the article: 2020 was a hot year, but we in northern California didn't suffer any blackouts during the year due to heat...only when drought and fire danger threatened.  So, this article is addressing a problem that hasn't touched most of California.

Maybe they mean southern California.  The LA basin, in particular, suffers from higher heat, and the Santa Ana winds that spill over from the Mohave desert and Arizona's Sonora desert in the late summer.  Anyway, it's no inconvenience to us, so no harm, no foul.

Maddog wrote:https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10

And those transmission lines that start fatal fires could be made safer.  The fires are preventable.

I agree...the infrastructure of the Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) company could be improved. It was constructed in the 1930's and is due for an update about now.

But, until we create ways to get on the western slope of the Rocky's, the watershed that they have on the eastern slope, the fires are not preventable.

Unless, or course, we can reverse global warming, which is driving warmer climes north. But, still, that only stalls the advancing disaster.

Thank god we got Republicans out of there, and rejoined the Paris Accord.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10

And those transmission lines that start fatal fires could be made safer.  The fires are preventable.

I agree...the infrastructure of the Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) company could be improved.  It was constructed in the 1930's and is due for an update about now.

But, until we create ways to get on the western slope of the Rocky's, the watershed that they have on the eastern slope, the fires are not preventable.

Unless, or course, we can reverse global warming, which is driving warmer climes north.  But, still, that only stalls the advancing disaster.

Thank god we got Republicans out of there, and rejoined the Paris Accord.

You need to produce more electricity in California.

Maddog wrote:You need to produce more electricity in California.

Nah...not on the priority list. But if it comes to that, California can do it. We're not the fifth largest economy in the world for nothing.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:You need to produce more electricity in California.

Nah...not on the priority list.  But if it comes to that, California can do it.  We're not the fifth largest economy in the world for nothing.

It's too bad you're too fucking stupid to read and comprehend the links Korbin and I posted.

You might learn something.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nah...not on the priority list. But if it comes to that, California can do it. We're not the fifth largest economy in the world for nothing.

It's too bad you're too fucking stupid to read and comprehend the links Korbin and I posted.

You might learn something.

One year does not a trend make. We didn't even feel it, and so it doesn't exist. The LA and southern California is served by Consolidated Edison, not PG&E, so maybe they need some investment.

But we're not doing anything to artificially suppress growth, as is happening in Texas. There, it's the ideology that is holding them back: minimal government, no restrictions, and the wide-open hole that is the capitalist mouth = Texas disaster.

California is the wealthiest state, and, thank god, it's LW. If it needs to be done, we can do it.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's too bad you're too fucking stupid to read and comprehend the links Korbin and I posted.

You might learn something.

One year does not a trend make.  We didn't even feel it, and so it doesn't exist.  The LA and southern California is served by Consolidated Edison, not PG&E, so maybe they need some investment.

But we're not doing anything to artificially suppress growth, as is happening in Texas.  There, it's the ideology that is holding them back: minimal government, no restrictions, and the wide-open hole that is the capitalist mouth = Texas disaster.

California is the wealthiest state, and, thank god, it's LW.  If it needs to be done, we can do it.

But two days makes a trend?

Two days made a disaster in Texas. We've had nothing like that in California.

Original Quill wrote:Two days made a disaster in Texas.  We've had nothing like that in California.

Your forest fires were not disasters?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Two days made a disaster in Texas.  We've had nothing like that in California.

Your forest fires were not disasters?

They were not man-made disasters, as was the one in Texas.

Sure, any meteorological or natural event can become a disaster. But, when you could have provided for it, but consciously did not, in order to put a few more shekels in your pocket, it's man-made trouble.

Like not fixing those stairs, or failing to keep up the brakes on your car, it's inviting a disaster. When you do it as a conscious plan, such as deregulation, it's just plain stupidity.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Your forest fires were not disasters?

They were not man-made disasters, as was the one in Texas.

Sure, any meteorological or natural event can become a disaster.  But, when you could have provided for it, but consciously did not, in order to put a few more shekels in your pocket, it's man-made trouble.  

Like not fixing those stairs, or failing to keep up the brakes on your car, it's inviting a disaster.  When you do it as a conscious plan, such as deregulation, it's just plain stupidity.

I heard Raking Forrest floors can help..................

Korben wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

They were not man-made disasters, as was the one in Texas.

Sure, any meteorological or natural event can become a disaster. But, when you could have provided for it, but consciously did not, in order to put a few more shekels in your pocket, it's man-made trouble.

Like not fixing those stairs, or failing to keep up the brakes on your car, it's inviting a disaster. When you do it as a conscious plan, such as deregulation, it's just plain stupidity.

I heard Raking Forrest floors can help..................

Yes, on federal land, where it still needs it. The unkempt portion of California is all property still in the hands of the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM). But the federal government, heretofore under Trump, ignored that as he did the pandemic, and the failing economy, the racial discord, etc., etc. The Republican adage was, and still is, if it doesn't make you a profit, ignore it.

Once again, you see the same mind-set as with Republican austerity and deregulation: full speed ahead, damn the safety and public protection…leaving citizens open to disaster.

Original Quill wrote:

Korben wrote:
I heard Raking Forrest floors can help..................

Yes, on federal land, where it still needs it.  The unkempt portion of California is all property still in the hands of the federal Bureau of Land Management (BLM).  But the federal government, heretofore under Trump, ignored that as he did the pandemic, and the failing economy, the racial discord, etc., etc.  The Republican adage was, and still is, if it doesn't make you a profit, ignore it.

Once again, you see the same mind-set as with Republican austerity and deregulation: full speed ahead, damn the safety and public protection…leaving citizens open to disaster.

i was being sarcastic

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Your forest fires were not disasters?

They were not man-made disasters, as was the one in Texas.

Sure, any meteorological or natural event can become a disaster.  But, when you could have provided for it, but consciously did not, in order to put a few more shekels in your pocket, it's man-made trouble.  

Like not fixing those stairs, or failing to keep up the brakes on your car, it's inviting a disaster.  When you do it as a conscious plan, such as deregulation, it's just plain stupidity.

You didn't read the links.

Now go back and read them, assuming you're smart enough to open them.

"Over 1,500 California fires in the past 6 years — including the deadliest ever — were caused by one company: PG&E. Here's what it could have done but didn't."

https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10


Since we have a member too fucking ignorant to operate links.

Maddog wrote:"Over 1,500 California fires in the past 6 years — including the deadliest ever — were caused by one company: PG&E. Here's what it could have done but didn't."

https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10

Since we have a member too fucking ignorant to operate links.

Right, and PG&E is in bankruptcy right now, from all the lawsuits.

Imagine if California had employed one of the favorite tricks of Republicans...to limit liability from disasters. Typical Republican trick: screw the people, they won't know, and besides, they are too dumb to get organized.

Tax break, tax break, hey…get yer tax break over here!

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:"Over 1,500 California fires in the past 6 years — including the deadliest ever — were caused by one company: PG&E. Here's what it could have done but didn't."

https://www.businessinsider.com/pge-caused-california-wildfires-safety-measures-2019-10

Since we have a member too fucking ignorant to operate links.  

Right, and PG&E is in bankruptcy right now, from all the lawsuits.

Imagine if California had employed one of the favorite tricks of Republicans...to limit liability from disasters.  Typical Republican trick: screw the people, they won't know, and besides, they are too dumb to get organized.

Tax break, tax break, hey…get yer tax break over here!    

6 years and 1500 fires later.

How many deaths?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Right, and PG&E is in bankruptcy right now, from all the lawsuits.

Imagine if California had employed one of the favorite tricks of Republicans...to limit liability from disasters.  Typical Republican trick: screw the people, they won't know, and besides, they are too dumb to get organized.

Tax break, tax break, hey…get yer tax break over here!    

6 years and 1500 fires later.  

How many deaths?

You miss the point. Natural disasters are...well, natural. But to pursue policies that foreseeably invite disaster, is insane.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

6 years and 1500 fires later.  

How many deaths?

You miss the point.  Natural disasters are...well, natural.  But to pursue policies that foreseeably invite disaster, is insane.

I missed nothing. "Over 1,500 California fires in the past 6 years — including the deadliest ever — were caused by one company: PG&E. Here's what it could have done but didn't."

It appears you missed this.

Why don't you just put down your shovel for awhile.

It's been taken care of. Again, we're not talking about foreseeable policy that brings on disaster, such as Texas.

Original Quill wrote:It's been taken care of.  Again, we're not talking about foreseeable policy that brings on disaster, such as Texas.

What started the 1500 fires?

We've been over that.

Original Quill wrote:We've been over that.  

Remind me.