Conservatism is no more

It once stood for minimal government, lower debt and deficit, zero regulation and policing the world. Under Trump, we have government by omniscient emergency, the highest debt and deficit in history, rampant tariffs and withdrawal from even associating with the world...let alone being the police. We also seem to be run by the Kremlin, once the great foe of conservatives.

Conservatives are without meaning. They no longer have any cause or purpose. All conservatism means anymore is kissing a certain psychotic's ass. Indeed, conservatism is dead.

Original Quill wrote:It once stood for minimal government, lower debt and deficit, zero regulation and policing the world.  Under Trump, we have government by omniscient emergency, the highest debt and deficit in history, rampant tariffs and withdrawal from even associating with the world...let alone being the police.  We also seem to be run by the Kremlin, once the great foe of conservatives.

Conservatives are without meaning.  They no longer have any cause or purpose.  All conservatism means anymore is kissing a certain psychotic's ass.  Indeed, conservatism is dead.

Conservatism never stood for policing the world. That would be neoconservatism.

Well, I take neo-conservatism to mean conservatism. Advanced by Professor Leo Strauss, University of Chicago, neoconservatism was a RW response to the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture. Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.

It is the peace through strength that brings conservatives and neoconservatives into frequent conflicts. So far from bringing real peace, they are frequently called upon to test their strength. Or, they feel they must continually show off their strength. They brought the war in Iraq under false pretenses...all of their own doing.

Trump is neither conservative nor neoconservative, which is my point. Trump has taken over the Republican Party, and it now bears his brand. Trump's brand is diametrically opposed to the old.

Republicans cannot go back to the old values...not after they have condemned and abandoned them. To try is to make them a political joke. More important, they risk alienating the base, which has glued itself to Trump. The old Republican now has to defend the new values of increased debt and deficits, expanded government for white nationalist causes, and isolation with military build up.

Original Quill wrote:Well, I take neo-conservatism to mean conservatism.  Advanced by Professor Leo Strauss, University of Chicago,  neoconservatism was a RW response to the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture.  Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.

It is the peace through strength that brings conservatives and neoconservatives into frequent conflicts.  So far from bringing real peace, they are frequently called upon to test their strength.  Or, they feel they must continually show off their strength.  They brought the war in Iraq under false pretenses...all of their own doing.

Trump is neither conservative nor neoconservative, which is my point.  Trump has taken over the Republican Party, and it now bears his brand.  Trump's brand is diametrically opposed to the old.

Republicans cannot go back to the old values...not after they have condemned and abandoned them.  To try is to make them a political joke.  More important, they risk alienating the base, which has glued itself to Trump.  The old Republican now has to defend the new values of increased debt and deficits, expanded government for white nationalist causes, and isolation with military build up.

Neo conservativism is a new twist.

The hint is in the "neo" part.

Original Quill wrote:Well, I take neo-conservatism to mean conservatism.  Advanced by Professor Leo Strauss, University of Chicago,  neoconservatism was a RW response to the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture.  Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.

It is the peace through strength that brings conservatives and neoconservatives into frequent conflicts.  So far from bringing real peace, they are frequently called upon to test their strength.  Or, they feel they must continually show off their strength.  They brought the war in Iraq under false pretenses...all of their own doing.

Trump is neither conservative nor neoconservative, which is my point.  Trump has taken over the Republican Party, and it now bears his brand.  Trump's brand is diametrically opposed to the old.

Republicans cannot go back to the old values...not after they have condemned and abandoned them.  To try is to make them a political joke.  More important, they risk alienating the base, which has glued itself to Trump.  The old Republican now has to defend the new values of increased debt and deficits, expanded government for white nationalist causes, and isolation with military build up.

Trump is more of a populist and a paleo conservative.

Paleoconservatives support restrictions on immigration, decentralization, trade tariffs and protectionism, economic nationalism, isolationism and a return to traditional conservative ideals relating to gender, ethnicity, and race.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Well, I take neo-conservatism to mean conservatism. Advanced by Professor Leo Strauss, University of Chicago, neoconservatism was a RW response to the increasingly pacifist foreign policy of the Democratic Party, and the growing New Left and counterculture. Neoconservatives typically advocate the promotion of democracy and American national interest in international affairs, including peace through strength (by means of military force), and are known for espousing disdain for communism and for political radicalism.

It is the peace through strength that brings conservatives and neoconservatives into frequent conflicts. So far from bringing real peace, they are frequently called upon to test their strength. Or, they feel they must continually show off their strength. They brought the war in Iraq under false pretenses...all of their own doing.

Trump is neither conservative nor neoconservative, which is my point. Trump has taken over the Republican Party, and it now bears his brand. Trump's brand is diametrically opposed to the old.

Republicans cannot go back to the old values...not after they have condemned and abandoned them. To try is to make them a political joke. More important, they risk alienating the base, which has glued itself to Trump. The old Republican now has to defend the new values of increased debt and deficits, expanded government for white nationalist causes, and isolation with military build up.

Trump is more of a populist and a paleo conservative.

Paleoconservatives support restrictions on immigration, decentralization, trade tariffs and protectionism, economic nationalism, isolationism and a return to traditional conservative ideals relating to gender, ethnicity, and race.

Paleo-conservatism and neo-conservatism pose a difference without a distinction. The two ideas are a reflection of different times, different issues. A paleocon is responding to the 30's and 40's and the New Deal, while a neocon is responding to the 60's and 70's and the New Left.

Populism goes back even further, and it is a reflection of the tensions between the 'average' and the 'elite'.

I don't think Trump is any of the above. He is an opportunist. He has no philosophy and no real agenda. But his influence on the Republican Party is such as to bring down all prior meaning to conservatism. He has wrapped conservatives (except those who have rejected Republicanism) in a cloak of contradictions, from which they will never recover.*

* Although, never put away the notion that Putin may well be running things from the wings.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Trump is more of a populist and a paleo conservative.

Paleoconservatives support restrictions on immigration, decentralization, trade tariffs and protectionism, economic nationalism, isolationism and a return to traditional conservative ideals relating to gender, ethnicity, and race.

Paleo-conservatism and neo-conservatism pose a difference without a distinction.  The two ideas are a reflection of different times, different issues.  A paleocon is responding to the 30's and 40's and the New Deal, while a neocon is responding to the 60's and 70's and the New Left.

Populism goes back even further, and it is a reflection of the tensions between the 'average' and the 'elite'.

I don't think Trump is any of the above.  He is an opportunist.  He has no philosophy and no real agenda.  But his influence on the Republican Party is such as to bring down all prior meaning to conservatism.  He has wrapped conservatives (except those who have rejected Republicanism) in a cloak of contradictions, from which they will never recover.*

* Although, never put away the notion that Putin may well be running things from the wings.

There is no expiration date on ideology.

Quill, do you honestly believe Putin is telling Trump what to do ?

nicko wrote:Quill, do you honestly believe Putin is telling Trump what to do ?

You damn strait he is. I think this photo proves it:

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Paleo-conservatism and neo-conservatism pose a difference without a distinction.  The two ideas are a reflection of different times, different issues.  A paleocon is responding to the 30's and 40's and the New Deal, while a neocon is responding to the 60's and 70's and the New Left.

Populism goes back even further, and it is a reflection of the tensions between the 'average' and the 'elite'.

I don't think Trump is any of the above.  He is an opportunist.  He has no philosophy and no real agenda.  But his influence on the Republican Party is such as to bring down all prior meaning to conservatism.  He has wrapped conservatives (except those who have rejected Republicanism) in a cloak of contradictions, from which they will never recover.*

* Although, never put away the notion that Putin may well be running things from the wings.

There is no expiration date on ideology.

No, bo 'use-by' date...but circumstances can end enthusiasm on certain ideas. Republican ideas that we should keep debt and deficit down to a minimum, for example. Gone now.

So, who is going to champion that, and how embarrassed is s/he to call him/herself a Republican?

nicko wrote:Quill, do you honestly believe Putin is telling Trump what to do ?

Well, I have two choices. One, Trump is brilliant. Two, Putin is calling the shots.

Trump thinks that windmills cause cancer...which one would you choose?

Conservatism has become fascism ....