Have we pinned all of our hopes on the Covid vaccine?

I'm just worried that we're not approaching the fight against the pandemic realistically.

There's always the possibility that the virus will mutate into a strain that the current vaccines won't work against. Then it's back to square one.

Wouldn't it be better to have a proper lockdown in place as the vaccines are rolled out? The so-called lockdown we have in the UK is still allowing people to mix quite a lot, possibly allowing the virus to mutate again.

Wouldn't it be better to use every tool we have to fight the pandemic?

Just so there's no misunderstanding - I'm not against people getting vaccinated. I just wonder whether it's wise to expect the vaccines to be the magic bullet that ends the pandemic.

I know.  You want a therapeutic, besides Remdesivir.  The NIH program for this is ACTIV.

There is a new drug said to be most effective...it's called something like Snow-din (I only heard it, didn't see it spelled).  If it makes it past the tests, it' will be considered a wonder drug.

Original Quill wrote:I know.  You want a therapeutic, besides Remdesivir.  The NIH program for this is ACTIV.

There is a new drug said to be most effective...it's called something like Snow-din (I only heard it, didn't see it spelled).  If it makes it past the tests, it' will be considered a wonder drug.

I want to see the world use every thing at its disposal to end the pandemic. That way, if one element is less effective than hoped, it's at least not the only thing we're doing.

Ben Reilly wrote:I'm just worried that we're not approaching the fight against the pandemic realistically.

There's always the possibility that the virus will mutate into a strain that the current vaccines won't work against. Then it's back to square one.

Wouldn't it be better to have a proper lockdown in place as the vaccines are rolled out? The so-called lockdown we have in the UK is still allowing people to mix quite a lot, possibly allowing the virus to mutate again.

Wouldn't it be better to use every tool we have to fight the pandemic?

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jan/14/keeping-up-with-covid-mutations-could-require-vaccine-cooperation

In answer to the OP, yes, so far we have to pin all our hopes on the vaccines we have available at this time.

Lockdowns obviously only work short term, and it's very clear by now that enough people refuse to co-operate with them as to make them less efficient than they could be.

Professor Jonathan Van-Tam, Deputy Chief Medical Officer in England, has said several times in the Downing Street updates that so far the new viruses are much more virulent but only slightly more deadly, and the present vaccines can be 'tweaked' to handle them if needs be.

He also suggests that it's a possibility, and this would depend on research yet to be done, that if immunity either from the vaccination or from having caught and recovered from Covid  isn't long lasting, or new variants come along that will overpower the present vaccines, hopefully by then more variants of the vaccine will be found and they could be given yearly, just as the flu vaccine is.

Syl wrote:He also suggests that it's a possibility, and this would depend on research yet to be done, that if immunity either from the vaccination or from having caught and recovered from Covid  isn't long lasting, or new variants come along that will overpower the present vaccines, hopefully by then more variants of the vaccine will be found and they could be given yearly, just as the flu vaccine is.

Yeah...and then there's the next virus.

We can see how valuable was the Pandemic Response Team, started by President Obama.  It had as it's scope, all diseases that might come along.  Bigger than one virus, or one strain of a virus.

It was one of the programs that Trump eliminated, as over-regulatory.  Regulations are public protections.  Conservatives and Republicans are continually out to eliminate regulations.  Now, we see the result.  They should be outlawed as political parties.

Lock downs simply buy time. They don't solve the problem and create other problems.

Pfizer is already working on booster shots to handle mutations as their original vaccines my become slightly less effective.

The virus is a wolf outside the door. You can hide in your house and slowly starve or hide long enough to come up with a plan to go out there and kill it.

Maddog wrote:Lock downs simply buy time. They don't solve the problem and create other problems.

Pfizer is already working on booster shots to handle mutations as their original vaccines my become slightly less effective.

The virus is a wolf outside the door. You can hide in your house and slowly starve or hide long enough to come up with a plan to go out there and kill it.

RW extremists always assume a misplaced motive. They see monsters in the shadows.

No one is hiding in a house, shivering over the thought of the evil virus out there. The reason why there are lockdowns is nothing else will work while we develop drugs to combat the virus. It is a holding action, until our defenses are up and running.

Any real military strategist would understand the tactic. RW extremists are looking backwards (typical) to a day when we didn't understand viruses and spread of diseases...and asking why can't we go out and play? Well, we have progressed from that day. Keep up!

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Lock downs simply buy time.  They don't solve the problem and create other problems.

Pfizer is already working on booster shots to handle mutations as their original vaccines my become slightly less effective.  

The virus is a wolf outside the door.  You can hide in your house and slowly starve or hide long enough to come up with a plan to go out there and kill it.  

RW extremists always assume a misplaced motive.  They see monsters in the shadows.

No one is hiding in a house, shivering over the thought of the evil virus out there.  The reason why there are lockdowns is nothing else will work while we develop drugs to combat the virus.  It is a holding action, until our defenses are up and running.

Any real military strategist would understand the tactic.  RW extremists are looking backwards (typical) to a day when we didn't understand viruses and spread of diseases...and asking why can't we go out and play?  Well, we have progressed from that day.  Keep up!

Which is why I said "hide long enough to come up with a plan".


Buy yourself some time then break out.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

RW extremists always assume a misplaced motive.  They see monsters in the shadows.

No one is hiding in a house, shivering over the thought of the evil virus out there.  The reason why there are lockdowns is nothing else will work while we develop drugs to combat the virus.  It is a holding action, until our defenses are up and running.

Any real military strategist would understand the tactic.  RW extremists are looking backwards (typical) to a day when we didn't understand viruses and spread of diseases...and asking why can't we go out and play?  Well, we have progressed from that day.  Keep up!

Which is why I said "hide long enough to come up with a plan".  

Buy yourself some time then break out.  

I see your point. Soz I misunderstood.

I wouldn't say "hide", but shelter until a timely counter-offensive. That is what the lockdown really is.

So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

A lockdown, done properly and long enough, could have killed the virus on its own, in theory at least. If we'd all stayed away from each other until the last coronavirus person was either dead or healed, the virus would literally have no way to jump to a new host and replicate itself.

I think since we've already done proper lockdowns and we now have vaccines, we should combine the two to deliver a true knockout blow to the pandemic.

Ben Reilly wrote:A lockdown, done properly and long enough, could have killed the virus on its own, in theory at least. If we'd all stayed away from each other until the last coronavirus person was either dead or healed, the virus would literally have no way to jump to a new host and replicate itself.

I think since we've already done proper lockdowns and we now have vaccines, we should combine the two to deliver a true knockout blow to the pandemic.

That’s all very true but...

Pfffffft. That didn’t answer my question.

eddie wrote:So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

Of course I would have the new vaccine.

All viruses mutate....the flu does, so we have a different jab every year, I can see the same thing happening with Covid.

I've had my first jab, as have most of us doing what we do. If I have to have more than the booster, so be it.

eddie wrote:So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

Hydroxychloroquine was proved to be very effective against covid (among other things)

wonder why they suddenly stopped using it?

In trials with covid patients, more patients died that were treated with hydroxychloroquine than those who didn't receive it, so it was considered ineffective.

Vintage wrote:In trials with covid patients, more patients died that were treated with hydroxychloroquine than those who didn't receive it, so it was considered ineffective.

Not merely ineffective, but counterproductive. As soon as the numbers came up, scientists reckoned that they have better places to put their resources.

Ben Reilly wrote:A lockdown, done properly and long enough, could have killed the virus on its own, in theory at least. If we'd all stayed away from each other until the last coronavirus person was either dead or healed, the virus would literally have no way to jump to a new host and replicate itself.

I think since we've already done proper lockdowns and we now have vaccines, we should combine the two to deliver a true knockout blow to the pandemic.

Yes, it would work because everyone would have died of starvation.

Not if Congress provides the food. We need to get going on the next Relief Package.

eddie wrote:So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

7.

eddie wrote:So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

This happens all the time. Take the flu--not for its relative mildness, mind you--but each year the scientists come out with a new strain, and a new vaccine for that new strain. It's common practice.

I think that the reluctance toward a vaccine for this virus goes to the hurried, haphazard way in which it was done under the Trump administration's Project Warp Speed. Trump didn't care about the efficacy of a vaccine, nor the millions he committed to genocide by his neglect. He wanted the vaccine merely to dodge the allegation that he was dithering while Rome burned.

That left people wondering, more cheap, shoddy shit from Trump??.

Original Quill wrote:Not if Congress provides the food.  We need to get going on the next Relief Package.

Can't move food if everyone is locked down.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:So here’s a question:

What if you get the vaccine and it is proven not to work against a new strain and they come out with a new vaccine to combat the new strain, would you have the newer vaccine?
And if you would, now many times are you willing to have a “newer” vaccine? What’s your limit?

This happens all the time.  Take the flu--not for its relative mildness, mind you--but each year the scientists come out with a new strain, and a new vaccine for that new strain.  It's common practice.

I think that the reluctance toward a vaccine for this virus goes to the hurried, haphazard way in which it was done under the Trump administration's Project Warp Speed.  Trump didn't care about the efficacy of a vaccine, nor the millions he committed to genocide by his neglect.  He wanted the vaccine merely to dodge the allegation that he was dithering while Rome burned.

That left people wondering, more cheap, shoddy shit from Trump??.

You could always take one developed in a different country.

The only vaccines developed so far appear to be American.  Pzfier, Moderna, and now the Rutgers/Johnson & Johnson vaccine. The Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine was delayed by faulty data.

Original Quill wrote:The only vaccines developed so far appear to be American.  Pzfier, Moderna, and now the Rutgers/Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

The Brits have one, as do the Russians and Chinese.

Hop on a plane.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:The only vaccines developed so far appear to be American.  Pzfier, Moderna, and now the Rutgers/Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

The Brits have one, as do the Russians and Chinese.  

The Brit one is the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine., delayed by faulty data.

Maddog wrote:Hop on a plane.  

In this climate?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-26/india-s-unusual-vaccine-problem-plenty-of-shots-but-few-takers

India made one too.

The folks there are reluctant to take it.

That fucking Trump has made Indians not trust their own vaccine.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The Brits have one, as do the Russians and Chinese.  

The Brit one is the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine., delayed by faulty data.

Maddog wrote:Hop on a plane.  

In this climate?  

The British vaccine is being administered.

You only live once. Wear your mask and wash your hands ya big sissy.

Maddog wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-26/india-s-unusual-vaccine-problem-plenty-of-shots-but-few-takers

India made one too.

The folks there are reluctant to take it.

That fucking Trump has made Indians not trust their own vaccine.  

I think he has tainted the entire, worldwide effort in the minds of people. He didn't want the virus to happen, and he made it a political cause...the science notwithstanding.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The Brit one is the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine., delayed by faulty data.



In this climate?  

The British vaccine is being administered.

You only live once. Wear your mask and wash your hands ya big sissy.  

Hahaha...I do, I do!  

(The British vaccine being administered is the Pfizer vaccine...maybe, by now, they have accepted the Moderna vaccine. I don't think the Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine is on the market yet.)

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-26/india-s-unusual-vaccine-problem-plenty-of-shots-but-few-takers

India made one too.

The folks there are reluctant to take it.

That fucking Trump has made Indians not trust their own vaccine.  

I think he has tainted the entire, worldwide effort in the minds of people.  He didn't want the virus to happen, and he made it a political cause...the science notwithstanding.

I think he has definitely got in the heads of some people.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The British vaccine is being administered.

You only live once. Wear your mask and wash your hands ya big sissy.  

Hahaha...I do, I do!  (The British vaccine being administered is the Pfizer vaccine...maybe, by now, they have accepted the Moderna.)

The AstraZenaga vaccine is being administered all over the planet.

Original Quill wrote:The only vaccines developed so far appear to be American.  Pzfier, Moderna, and now the Rutgers/Johnson & Johnson vaccine.  The Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine was delayed by faulty data.

The Oxford A/Z has been given to millions of elderly people...ALL care home residents, and frontline NHS workers and carers already in the UK.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:The only vaccines developed so far appear to be American.  Pzfier, Moderna, and now the Rutgers/Johnson & Johnson vaccine.  The Oxford/AstraZenica vaccine was delayed by faulty data.

The Oxford A/Z has been given to millions of elderly people...ALL care home residents, and frontline NHS workers and carers already in the UK.

And it's being used in India as well as the vaccine developed there. Quill has plenty of non American options for the jab.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Hahaha...I do, I do!  (The British vaccine being administered is the Pfizer vaccine...maybe, by now, they have accepted the Moderna.)

The AstraZenaga vaccine is being administered all over the planet.

I see the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was authorized in the UK on January 4th, on an "emergency basis".  But their stumble initially is contributing to the reluctance of people to receive a vaccine over there.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-stumble-11611871968

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The AstraZenaga vaccine is being administered all over the planet.

I see the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was authorized in the UK on January 4th, on an "emergency basis".  But their stumble initially is contributing to the reluctance of people to receive a vaccine over there.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-stumble-11611871968

Quill, 8.98 million people have already had the jab here.
We are well in front of targets set.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I see the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine was authorized in the UK on January 4th, on an "emergency basis".  But their stumble initially is contributing to the reluctance of people to receive a vaccine over there.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/behind-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-stumble-11611871968

Quill, 8.98 million people have already had the jab here.
We are well in front of targets set.

I wonder if Quill has gotten the jab yet?

I wonder if he realizes that he already would have if he lived in Texas?

Maybe Quill is an anti vaxer?

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

The Oxford A/Z has been given to millions of elderly people...ALL care home residents, and frontline NHS workers and carers already in the UK.

And it's being used in India as well as the vaccine developed there.  Quill has plenty of non American options for the jab.  

We are now being told to slow down with the vaccination programme as the UK is in front of many other countries.
A row blew up a couple of days ago because the EU wanted more of the AZ vaccine...seems there has been some sort of holdup with supplies.

Maddog wrote:Maybe Quill is an anti vaxer?

I dont think he is, he does have the wrong info about the Oxford vaccine though.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

And it's being used in India as well as the vaccine developed there.  Quill has plenty of non American options for the jab.  

We are now being told to slow down with the vaccination programme as the UK is in front of many other countries.
A row blew up a couple of days ago because the EU wanted more of the AZ vaccine...seems there has been some sort of holdup with supplies.

Yeah, well the EU is about as useless as tits on a boar hog.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:Maybe Quill is an anti vaxer?

I dont think he is, he does have the wrong info about the Oxford vaccine though.

https://abc7news.com/covid-vaccine-california-ca-status-news/10139642

At his age he should have already had it, except he lives in an area with, "issues".

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

I dont think he is, he does have the wrong info about the Oxford vaccine though.

https://abc7news.com/covid-vaccine-california-ca-status-news/10139642

At his age he should have already had it, except he lives in an area with, "issues".  

If he is over 80 he would no doubt have had his second injection here.
We are now doing the first jabs for the over 70's....soon to start on the over 65's.

I can see some sort of normality coming back for the summer months.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

Quill, 8.98 million people have already had the jab here.
We are well in front of targets set.

I wonder if Quill has gotten the jab yet?

I wonder if he realizes that he already would have if he lived in Texas?

No, I haven't. Like millions worldwide, I want to wait and see if this 'quickie' vaccine really works...or is it a Trump wet dream to stem the flood of criticism over his ineptitude.

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

https://abc7news.com/covid-vaccine-california-ca-status-news/10139642

At his age he should have already had it, except he lives in an area with, "issues".  

If he is over 80 he would no doubt have had his second injection here.
We are now doing the first jabs for the over 70's....soon to start on the over 65's.

I can see some sort of normality coming back for the summer months.

We're on the 65 year olds here. Texas put age before occupation except for Healthcare workers. They went first.

I know several people who are in there 30s and 40s with no health problems that have lucked into an open slot. They signed up weeks ago and got an email saying "be at this location tomorrow at this time".

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:

Maddog wrote:

And it's being used in India as well as the vaccine developed there.  Quill has plenty of non American options for the jab.  

We are now being told to slow down with the vaccination programme as the UK is in front of many other countries.
A row blew up a couple of days ago because the EU wanted more of the AZ vaccine...seems there has been some sort of holdup with supplies.

Yeah, well the EU is about as useless as tits on a boar hog.  

Yeah, UK businesses are apparently thrilled with the rolls of shiny new red tape they have to deal with to do business now that we've left.

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yeah, well the EU is about as useless as tits on a boar hog.  

Yeah, UK businesses are apparently thrilled with the rolls of shiny new red tape they have to deal with to do business now that we've left.

Red tape is as useless as tits on a boar hog. That's why politicians everywhere are so enamored with it.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yeah, well the EU is about as useless as tits on a boar hog.  

Yeah, UK businesses are apparently thrilled with the rolls of shiny new red tape they have to deal with to do business now that we've left.

Red tape is as useless as tits on a boar hog. That's why politicians everywhere are so enamored with it.

Yeah, which is why many UK businesses are now regretting Brexit, because part of being in the EU was free trade, something that has now gone out the window.

Leaving the EU did nothing to liberalize trade; quite the opposite, in fact. It's way bigger than it would have been had the U.S. dropped out of NAFTA.