70,000 job seekers' benefits withdrawn unfairly, says thinktank

70,000 job seekers' benefits withdrawn unfairly, says thinktank
Right-of-centre Policy Exchange says people who break job search conditions for first time face unnecessary hardship

Nearly 70,000 job seekers have had their benefits withdrawn unfairly, making them reliant on food banks, the right-of-centre thinktank Policy Exchange has said .

The intervention is the first by a respected rightwing voice claiming that something has gone wrong with the administration of benefits.

A chorus of churches, charities and Labour has been warning the work and pensions secretary, Iain Duncan Smith, for months that the administration of benefit sanctions has become too punitive.

Duncan Smith has commissioned a limited independent review into the administration of sanctions, and this is likely to confirm problems in the way they are imposed, but not challenge their level.

Policy Exchange says almost a third of all people who break their job search conditions for the first time have their benefits taken away by mistake and face unnecessary hardship as a result.

Guy Miscampbell, the author of the Policy Exchange report, said: "It is clear that there are a significant number of people who have their benefit taken away from them unfairly. Four weeks without any money is driving people to desperate measures including a reliance on food banks".

The report suggests: "With some 874,000 adverse decisions being made between October 2012 and September 2013, and over 146,000 of them being successfully appealed or reconsidered it is clear that the possibility of wrongly applied sanctions, and what their effects might be, is an important one. With some estimates suggesting that 43% of those referred to food banks are there due to benefit stoppage or being refused a crisis loan, it is clear that there is not currently an adequate safety net for those who are wrongly sanctioned".

The report comes as a public health specialist, Professor Elizabeth Dowler of Warwick University, said that poverty–stricken families who cannot afford to buy sufficient food are overtaking unhealthy eating as the most pressing public health concern.

The claim is made in a BBC Panorama documentary broadcast on Monday evening, which found that over a third of local authorities in England and Wales were providing funding for food banks, despite government claims that charity food is not a part of the social security system. "Food banks are an inadequate plaster over a gaping wound," Dowler said.

On Sunday, Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the archbishop of Westminster, repeated his criticisms of the welfare system, saying that "some of the priests who are right there on the ground say it comes across as punitive". He revealed that he was bringing a group of priests together to discuss the evidence, and welcomed the inquiry into food banks being chaired by the archbishop of Truro and Frank Field.

Policy Exchange suggests issuing first-time offenders, who may or may not have been fairly sanctioned, with a 'yellow card' in the form of a benefits card. It says this would be a more compassionate way of trying to help people back into work.

Benefits would be accessed via this card for a maximum of eight weeks. If the claimant continues to breach job search conditions, the card and benefits would be taken away. This system would provide a safety net, mitigating hardship while a sanction is appealed, forcing claimants to re-engage with Jobcentre staff and deterring non-compliance through the added inconvenience of daily sign on.

They would also be asked to sign on daily as part of a proposal to create a more compassionate but stricter sanctions regime.

It suggests that repeat offenders should be punished more seriously.

The report also recommends more stringent penalties for people who consistently break the terms of their job search requirements. According to the research, between October 2012 and September 2013 there were 30,000 claimants on their third sanction or more for lower tier offences such as missing an interview with a Jobcentre adviser. Repeat offenders should have their benefits taken away for a longer period of time from 13 to 26 weeks for a third breach. For each offence, a further 13 weeks should be added.

Monday's Panorama also uncovers evidence that a jobcentre appears to be explicitly alerting its staff to the financial savings to be made through "sanctioning" job seekers when they are judged to have broken benefit conditions.

A wall chart in a Grantham jobcentre explicitly sets out the cash savings available to the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) through stopping the benefits of claimants, ranging from £227.20 a week for a four-week sanction to £3,728 for a sanction lasting one year.The DWP told Panorama: "This was an isolated incident and does not reflect our policy on sanctions."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/03/70000-job-seekers-benefits-withdrawn-unfairly-thinktank

That will be people who didn't go like the blind man who couldn't read the letter etc.

I was turned down for a loan once - I wanted to get our roof fixed - there was damp in the kids' room and you all know how bad that can be for a child's health.

I went down to the benefits office and told them.

I was told to bugger off because I work for a living.

Oh dear, that wasn't good for your kids, but at least they were eating   

Sassy wrote:Oh dear, that wasn't good for your kids, but at least they were eating   

Thank you for your concern Sassy.

I think you get the point.

Oh yes I do get the point.   The point being these people are not scivvers or any of the other things you call them, but people who the policies of our government or ill health have put out of work, who are desperate to find it, and meantime even a right wing think tank recognises are being treated unfairly, and because of it, without the food banks would go hungry.   You on the other hand are a rather pathetic whinger who spends your days on here yet claims to work.

Sassy wrote:Oh yes I do get the point.   The point being these people are not scivvers or any of the other things you call them, but people who the policies of our government or ill health have put out of work, who are desperate to find it, and meantime even a right wing think tank recognises are being treated unfairly, and because of it, without the food banks would go hungry.   You on the other hand are a rather pathetic whinger who spends your days on here yet claims to work.

Whilst I have every sympathy for those who are put out of a job and are too ill to work, it seems you have none whatsoever for those working their little bums off.

That will be why I complain about how people are having to claim benefits even when working, because of low pay.   

Perhaps some people will widen their job search and be prepared to take any job rather than wait for the "right" one.

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps some people will widen their job search and be prepared to take any job rather than wait for the "right" one.

Don't be ridiculous, no-one has had the chance to wait for the right one for years.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps some people will widen their job search and be prepared to take any job rather than wait for the "right" one.

Don't be ridiculous, no-one has had the chance to wait for the right one for years.

Oh they do.

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps some people will widen their job search and be prepared to take any job rather than wait for the "right" one.

So true Ragga - when I left the army to be with my family, after 10 years of never living with them - have a guess what - yes, I took a job 200 miles away.

A man has to work to put bread on the table.

Well....

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Don't be ridiculous, no-one has had the chance to wait for the right one for years.

Oh they do.

You saying it doesn't make it true.   We supported my grandaughter for three years while she trained, now she is waitressing because nothing else is around.   My grandson is doing a zero hours job because nothing else is around.   They count themselves as lucky to have found a job, took my grandaughter six months, going out every day looking and asking and writing.   You're living in another universe.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Perhaps some people will widen their job search and be prepared to take any job rather than wait for the "right" one.

So true Ragga - when I left the army to be with my family, after 10 years of never living with them - have a guess what - yes, I took a job 200 miles away.

A man has to work to put bread on the table.

Well....

Yes. I had to move a long way to find a job at one time. Some people insist on staying in a high unemployment area, so what do they expect?

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh they do.

You saying it doesn't make it true.   We supported my grandaughter for three years while she trained, now she is waitressing because nothing else is around.   My grandson is doing a zero hours job because nothing else is around.   They count themselves as lucky to have found a job, took my grandaughter six months, going out every day looking and asking and writing.   You're living in another universe.

Were they made to take those jobs or lose benefits?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

You saying it doesn't make it true.   We supported my grandaughter for three years while she trained, now she is waitressing because nothing else is around.   My grandson is doing a zero hours job because nothing else is around.   They count themselves as lucky to have found a job, took my grandaughter six months, going out every day looking and asking and writing.   You're living in another universe.

Were they made to take those jobs or lose benefits?

No, neither of them have ever claimed benefits.

Raggamuffin wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

So true Ragga - when I left the army to be with my family, after 10 years of never living with them - have a guess what - yes, I took a job 200 miles away.

A man has to work to put bread on the table.

Well....

Yes. I had to move a long way to find a job at one time. Some people insist on staying in a high unemployment area, so what do they expect?

I honestly don't know how a man can accept it.

There should be something inside a man that forces him to provide.

Yep, that's one of the reasons men commit suicide when they try and try and try to get a job and can't.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Were they made to take those jobs or lose benefits?

No, neither of them have ever claimed benefits.

Well then we're talking about different things. If someone is on JSA, they can be on it for ages whilst they wait for the right job.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes. I had to move a long way to find a job at one time. Some people insist on staying in a high unemployment area, so what do they expect?

I honestly don't  know how a man can accept it.

There should be something inside a man that forces him to provide.

Not just men - I'm female, and I needed to find a job.   

The both of you are pathetic, spend all day on here and complain about others not working.

For example, I've seen articles about Tottenham re how hard it is to find a job there. Well, there is public transport there - it's in London FFS - people can always find work outside of their area.

Sassy wrote:The both of you are pathetic, spend all day on here and complain about others not working.

I work - I have two jobs actually, so get off your high horse. What are you doing that's so useful then?

Sassy wrote:Yep, that's one of the reasons men commit suicide when they try and try and try to get a job and can't.

Very true Sassy, and those good men I have great sympathy with.

What they show is just how much effort a man should be putting in to find work.

It's those disgusting ones who don't bother and make up illnesses whom we should despise.

Sassy wrote:Oh yes I do get the point.   The point being these people are not scivvers or any of the other things you call them, but people who the policies of our government or ill health have put out of work, who are desperate to find it, and meantime even a right wing think tank recognises are being treated unfairly, and because of it, without the food banks would go hungry.   You on the other hand are a rather pathetic whinger who spends your days on here yet claims to work.

The point is that the Guardian not used to reporting things in a balanced way is saying that out of MILLIONs of reviews some were wrong. That's millions sassy a million is 1 and six zeroes. Yes there will be errors in the most efficient system. What is also not mentioned is that 100s of thousands have been found work successfully. Oh that means so many were on benefits that should not have been.

I note you prose has dried up and you are back to cut and paste one liners. Hmmmm. Still missing the balanced point one liners.

You didn't notice it's a RIGHT WING THINK TANK saying this then Fred, the reason why I posted it. Every time this fact is pointed out the RW posters come out with the normal excuse that it is being said by the left, or the church, or, or, or, the list is endless. Now it's being said by one of the most right wing think tanks, so those excuses don't apply anymore. Now what are you going to do.

Oh, obvious from the your post, claim people can get jobs, even though there are still over seven people for every job and nobody has the experience to do every kind of job or be accepted for it.

But you will all try, because how else can you live with yourselves.

Sassy wrote:You didn't notice it's a RIGHT WING THINK TANK saying this then Fred, the reason why I posted it.   Every time this fact is pointed out the RW posters come out with the normal excuse that it is being said by the left, or the church, or, or, or, the list is endless.   Now it's being said by one of the most right wing think tanks, so those excuses don't apply anymore.   Now what are you going to do.

Oh, obvious from the your post, claim people can get jobs, even though there are still over seven people for every job and nobody has the experience to do every kind of job or be accepted for it.

But you will all try, because how else can you live with yourselves.

So what's the answer then Sassy? Stop people coming here and taking jobs that British people could be doing?

lol that's what I keep on saying to didge.

didge's huge argument about Eastern Europeans is "yeah but they come here to work - 90% of them take a job" - that isn't an argument for immigration!

BigAndy9 wrote:lol that's what I keep on saying to didge.

didge's huge argument about Eastern Europeans is "yeah but they come here to work - 90% of them take a job" - that isn't an argument for immigration!

Well if there are jobs, why aren't British people getting them?

Raggamuffin wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:lol that's what I keep on saying to didge.

didge's huge argument about Eastern Europeans is "yeah but they come here to work - 90% of them take a job" - that isn't an argument for immigration!

Well if there are jobs, why aren't British people getting them?

If you owned your own business - who would you employ - the one with a raft of laws on their side, a family to keep and who wants a certain wage, or the one who is desperate, doesn't have the bills because they are squatting with 10 others and can be employed through an agency for 30 bob an hour?

BigAndy9 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well if there are jobs, why aren't British people getting them?

If you owned your own business - who would you employ - the one with a raft of laws on their side, a family to keep and who wants a certain wage, or the one who is desperate, doesn't have the bills because they are squatting with 10 others and can be employed through an agency for 30 bob an hour?

Well I'd employ someone who was reliable and did the job properly, but I take your point. There is a minimum wage in this country though, so nobody should be paying less than that.

What is the sense of loads of people coming here, getting jobs, and paying tax so that British people can sit there on JSA? It's just stupid.

Raggamuffin wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


If you owned your own business - who would you employ - the one with a raft of laws on their side, a family to keep and who wants a certain wage, or the one who is desperate, doesn't have the bills because they are squatting with 10 others and can be employed through an agency for 30 bob an hour?

Well I'd employ someone who was reliable and did the job properly, but I take your point. There is a minimum wage in this country though, so nobody should be paying less than that.

What is the sense of loads of people coming here, getting jobs, and paying tax so that British people can sit there on JSA? It's just stupid.

They don't pay tax because they earn so little - then they can apply for benefits can't they?

If they have a kid while here - ker-ching!

BigAndy9 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well I'd employ someone who was reliable and did the job properly, but I take your point. There is a minimum wage in this country though, so nobody should be paying less than that.

What is the sense of loads of people coming here, getting jobs, and paying tax so that British people can sit there on JSA? It's just stupid.

They don't pay tax because they earn so little - then they can apply for benefits can't they?

If they have a kid while here - ker-ching!

If they work full time and get minimum wage, they pay tax. I agree though that they can benefits after a while which is probably far more than they paid in. It's all absurd - I don't know how the country can go on affording it.

Of course we could all move to Romania or whatever - maybe that's not such a bad idea.   

my mate's being looking for work for months,he lives in central b,ham.can;t find a vacancy for a shepherd anywhere!!

nicko wrote:my mate's being looking for work for months,he lives in central b,ham.can;t find a vacancy for a shepherd anywhere!!

Good one. ::D:: 

It doesn't matter about the source my point still stands. I didn't deny mistakes have been made.Hundreds of thousands have found work formerly on the sick.

These are the ones you lefties have been suggesting can't work. Wrong again!

You focus n the errors which are considerably smaller than the successes. You defend the indefensible presumably because your little Pekinese attack dog hasn't done a tap himself for years. Get real Sassy there have been hundreds of thousands of claimants who were not entitled.

Yes Fred, as has now been admitted, those who recovered from broken legs etc, or who had a sickness that was treated and got better. But you carry on with your nasty snide bigotted shit, because that's all you can manage. And the errors are MUCH larger than the successes.

Sassy wrote:Yes Fred, as has now been admitted, those who recovered from broken legs etc, or who had a sickness that was treated and got better.   But you carry on with your nasty snide bigotted shit, because that's all you can manage.   And the errors are MUCH larger than the successes.  

If you understood basic arithmetic you would know the ratio between the number of claimants who were taking the piss to those who have been signed off in error is much greater. For some reason you defend those who steal from others who work.

What with your defence of Paedo supporters and benefit fraudsters I wonder why a soldier of her majesty's forces would want to get withing miles of you.

It beggars belief. Is this your 4th or 5th?

Bigoted me! I think you are bigoted against anyone who actually has values.

Sassy wrote:Yes Fred, as has now been admitted, those who recovered from broken legs etc, or who had a sickness that was treated and got better.   But you carry on with your nasty snide bigotted shit, because that's all you can manage.   And the errors are MUCH larger than the successes.  

Hundreds of thousands who have been on the sick for years with broken legs??????

Thick as well as bigoted?

Does Black Watch know you are Karen Matthews material?

but of course fred and co dont actually give a toss about the ones targeted in error either, they seem to consider them merely "colateral damage". The RW in its idiocy demands that the system be parasite free, they will not however accept that in THAT case it should also be ERROR free....

victorismyhero wrote:but of course fred and co dont actually give a toss about the ones targeted in error either, they seem to consider them merely "colateral damage".  The RW in its idiocy demands that the system be parasite free, they will not however accept that in THAT case it should also be ERROR free....

The numbers speak for themselves Victor. Look how many hundreds of thousands have signed off that were claiming for years.

What is it with you guys defending the indefensible. There is less money to go around give it to those who really need it.

I never will understand the kneejerk reactions to support all claimants.

BUT you dont give a flying fc about the innnocent victims...THATS the point....

Moreover you STILL cant see the idiocy which you are subscribing to....benefit fraud (EVEN IF you include the "shirkers as opposed to genuine fraud) pales into un noticeable insignificance when compared to tax fraud. Yet we dont hear you yelping like castrated pigs ove that do we...no thats ok by you cos its your friends/lords and masters who are doing that and they are not an easy target are they.

RW...moral cowards and bullies....

coalbunker wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:but of course fred and co dont actually give a toss about the ones targeted in error either, they seem to consider them merely "colateral damage".  The RW in its idiocy demands that the system be parasite free, they will not however accept that in THAT case it should also be ERROR free....

The numbers speak for themselves Victor. Look how many hundreds of thousands have signed off that were claiming for years.

What is it with you guys defending the indefensible. There is less money to go around give it to those who really need it.

I never will understand the kneejerk reactions to support all claimants.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/03/70000-job-seekers-benefits-withdrawn-unfairly-thinktank

Tosser.

If so many appeals are being won, then that shows up a flaw in the system.

The only people who are surviving the current holocaust against the poor, are those that have support from family and friends etc.

ATOS is toast now!


  

Next....The job centre sanctions scheme!

victorismyhero wrote:BUT you dont give a flying fc about the innnocent victims...THATS the point....

Moreover you STILL cant see the idiocy which you are subscribing to....benefit fraud (EVEN IF you include the "shirkers as opposed to genuine fraud) pales into un noticeable insignificance when compared to tax fraud. Yet we dont hear you yelping like castrated pigs ove that do we...no thats ok by you cos its your friends/lords and masters who are doing that and they are not an easy target are they.

RW...moral cowards and bullies....

Left wing idiotic innumerate delusional arrogant tosspots. We have a system with millions of claimants many of whom were not eligible. Sifting through so many will inevitably result in hard cases to do nothing means every tax payers is under an unbearable load. Of course you guys don't seem to think they matter.

Sorry the moral high ground isn't yours. The pontificating holier than thou superior one is though. I'm fucking sick of being lectured to by people who never stop to think about the reality of relatively low earners paying taxes to pay for lead swingers. It's criminal.

Fred Bloggs wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:BUT you dont give a flying fc about the innnocent victims...THATS the point....

Moreover you STILL cant see the idiocy which you are subscribing to....benefit fraud (EVEN IF you include the "shirkers as opposed to genuine fraud) pales into un noticeable insignificance when compared to tax fraud. Yet we dont hear you yelping like castrated pigs ove that do we...no thats ok by you cos its your friends/lords and masters who are doing that and they are not an easy target are they.

RW...moral cowards and bullies....

Left wing idiotic innumerate delusional arrogant tosspots. We have a system with millions of claimants many of whom were not eligible. Sifting through so many will inevitably result in hard cases to do nothing means every  tax payers is under an unbearable load. Of course you guys don't seem to think they matter.

Sorry the moral high ground isn't yours. The pontificating holier than  thou superior one is though. I'm fucking sick of being lectured to by people who never stop to think about the reality of relatively low earners paying taxes to pay for lead swingers. It's criminal.

Yeah yeah fred...Just as criminal as your tax cheating lords and masters who you are scared of, so wont tackle....The difference being tax fraud outweighs benefit fraud 10 to 1.
YOU cowards are only interested in the easy targets., and dont care how much hardship you cause to genuine people...after all...they are only "shirkers" aren't they....even the genuine ones....You just hate anyone you see as "less" than you.... As it happens I'm fucking sick (since clearly THAT common language is all you understand...typical uneducated tosser) of rich dickheads and jealous R/W sucking up to their criminal tax dodging "betters" whilst beating the less lucky over the pittance they cost...And sick of the relatively low earners paying excessive tax to pay for the Tax dodging high earners....

two faced is the R/W

He's not Fred, he's Drinky, and Phoenix. See the thread about the judge holding the abuse victim!!!

Actually what is wrong in removing ineligible people of the welfare system who have been ignored far too long.

They take and give nothing back.

My understanding is those evading taxes are being hunted down. Why should decent taxpayers pay for blood sucking scum and mores the point why do you support fraudsters?

Sassy wrote:He's not Fred, he's Drinky, and Phoenix.   See the thread about the judge holding the abuse victim!!!

Phoenix was outed as Drinky on IAF days ago.

coalbunker wrote:

Sassy wrote:He's not Fred, he's Drinky, and Phoenix.   See the thread about the judge holding the abuse victim!!!

Phoenix was outed as Drinky on IAF days ago.

But Phoenix as well, no wonder the silly bugger got confused, has the IQ of a pea anyway!