Why the economy matters.

WASHINGTON — The U.S. could see an elevated death rate for more than a decade as the economic fallout from the coronavirus persists, underscoring the long-term health impact of the deep recession.

The nation’s mortality rate is forecast to increase 3 percent while life expectancy will drop 0.5 percent over the next 15 years, representing 890,000 more American deaths, according to a working paper from researchers at Duke, Harvard and Johns Hopkins universities. Over a 20-year period, that amounts to 1.37 million additional deaths.

That will disproportionately hit Black Americans and women in the near term, though may also carry long-term consequences for white men. For every 100,000 citizens, an additional 33 African Americans and 25 white people could die as a direct result of the economic impacts stemming from COVID-19, the data show.


https://bangordailynews.com/2021/01/05/national-business/us-risks-years-of-higher-mortality-from-covid-19s-economic-fallout/

I don't know if these numbers are correct, but it's widely understood that shitty economies cause long term problems for people.

That's why you can't say "the economy doesn't matter, hur, dur".

The economy certainly matters. It's just that life and safety come before the economy in priority.

Original Quill wrote:The economy certainly matters.  It's just that life and safety come before the economy in priority.

Yes, its a fine balancing act because focusing too much on one or the other can be deadly.

This government is doing a lot to help people who have lost their income, probably more than any other country.

Obviously no one can compensate for ALL lost income or jobs, it's impossible, and the money will have to be repaid in one form or another once this bloody plague has been beaten and people can once more start to rebuild their lives.

On top of money worries many other illnesses are being neglected, even if the hospitals are trying to keep on top of existing appointments for serious conditions like cancer etc, many people dont want to visit the hospitals right now, and they certainly dont want to stay in them, given the number of people who have reportedly caught Covid in hospitals when they didn't have it when they went in for an unrelated op.

Add to that the mental anxiety and loneliness that people are going through, cut off from friends, family, human contact....it is an impossible balancing act to try to help everyone.

Syl wrote:This government is doing a lot to help people who have lost their income, probably more than any other country.

Obviously no one can compensate for ALL lost income or jobs, it's impossible, and the money will have to be repaid in one form or another once this bloody plague has been beaten and people can once more start to rebuild their lives.

On top of money worries many other illnesses are being neglected, even if the hospitals are trying to keep on top of existing appointments for serious conditions like cancer etc, many people dont want to visit the hospitals right now, and they certainly dont want to stay in them, given the number of people who have reportedly caught Covid in hospitals when they didn't have it when they went in for an unrelated op.

Add to that the mental anxiety and loneliness that people are going through, cut off from friends, family, human contact....it is an impossible balancing act to try to help everyone.

It will be interesting to see who shreaks the loudest when austerity kicks in.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:The economy certainly matters.  It's just that life and safety come before the economy in priority.

Yes, its a fine balancing act because focusing too much on one or the other can be deadly.  

It's not an even balance. Without life, economics is meaningless.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Yes, its a fine balancing act because focusing too much on one or the other can be deadly.  

It's not an even balance.  Without life, economics is meaningless.

And terrible economies prematurely end life.

Why do you think wealthy countries have such high life expectancies?

Maddog wrote:And terrible economies prematurely end life.

It's very much like the chicken/egg argument. Reverse your words and the point will come to you: ...terrible deaths prematurely end economies.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:And terrible economies prematurely end life.

It's very much like the chicken/egg argument.  Reverse your words and the point will come to you: ...terrible deaths prematurely end economies.

No doubt. So perhaps you should worry about all premature deaths and not just the one most likely to affect you.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's very much like the chicken/egg argument.  Reverse your words and the point will come to you: ...terrible deaths prematurely end economies.

No doubt. So perhaps you should worry about all premature deaths and not just the one most likely to affect you.  

I do. I was among the first to oppose Vietnam. To oppose Afghanistan. To oppose Iraq. To oppose the south in this country. To oppose Profa, white supremacy, and all the evils spawned by slavery in this nation. And now, to oppose the outlaw, anti-American actions of the Republican Party.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

No doubt. So perhaps you should worry about all premature deaths and not just the one most likely to affect you.  

I do.  I was among the first to oppose Vietnam.  To oppose Afghanistan.  To oppose Iraq.  To oppose the south in this country.  To oppose Profa, white supremacy, and all the evils spawned by slavery in this nation.  And now, to oppose the outlaw, anti-American actions of the Republican Party.

You don't seem to worried about the deaths that are mentioned in the OP.

Of course you have a servant and have likely felt no decrease in your standard of living.

Maddog wrote:You don't seem to worried about the deaths that are mentioned in the OP.

There's a time and a place for everything.  The OP blocks non-subscribers, so I don't really know what COD's you mean. But, in any case, this is a section about the Coronavirus.  The mods get quite disturbed if you go too far off-topic on this board.

It's a stretch that the mods even allowed you to post a thread about economics in this section.  I was surprised.  But since a failing economy is a legitimate consequence of a pandemic, I understand.

Nevertheless, I think for us to turn this thread away from the pandemic, and onto into an entirely different topic, would be a breach of the rules.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:You don't seem to worried about the deaths that are mentioned in the OP.

There's a time and a place for everything.  The OP blocks non-subscribers, so I don't really know what COD's you mean.  But, in any case, this is a section about the Coronavirus.  The mods get quite disturbed if you go too far off-topic on this board.

It's a stretch that the mods even allowed you to post a thread about economics in this section.  I was surprised.  But since a failing economy is a legitimate consequence of a pandemic, I understand.

Nevertheless, I think for us to turn this thread away from the pandemic, and onto into an entirely different topic, would be a breach of the rules.

The nation’s mortality rate is forecast to increase 3 percent while life expectancy will drop 0.5 percent over the next 15 years, representing 890,000 more American deaths, according to a working paper from researchers at Duke, Harvard and Johns Hopkins universities. Over a 20-year period, that amounts to 1.37 million additional deaths.

Here is the topic, that you continue to ignore.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

There's a time and a place for everything.  The OP blocks non-subscribers, so I don't really know what COD's you mean.  But, in any case, this is a section about the Coronavirus.  The mods get quite disturbed if you go too far off-topic on this board.

It's a stretch that the mods even allowed you to post a thread about economics in this section.  I was surprised.  But since a failing economy is a legitimate consequence of a pandemic, I understand.

Nevertheless, I think for us to turn this thread away from the pandemic, and onto into an entirely different topic, would be a breach of the rules.

The nation’s mortality rate is forecast to increase 3 percent while life expectancy will drop 0.5 percent over the next 15 years, representing 890,000 more American deaths, according to a working paper from researchers at Duke, Harvard and Johns Hopkins universities. Over a 20-year period, that amounts to 1.37 million additional deaths.

Here is the topic, that you continue to ignore.

I haven't ignored it at all.  The topic arises in this section because it relates to Covid's impact on mortality rates.  As you yourself framed the topic, there is an “economic fallout from the coronavirus”. You created the deviation by asking why I don't discuss other illnesses as a cause of death. That makes no sense.

I choose to follow the original topic, not because I am callous to other illnesses, but because those other illnesses don't fit the relevant matter.  If you like, create another thread, in the appropriate section, and discuss anything you want.

This is a section totally devoted to coronavirus, and a thread within about the coronavirus and its economic consequences.  While I have great sympathy for other threats to life, right now I'm more interested in discussing the economic consequences of Covid.  If we don't focus, we squander all of our sympathies, in all directions, and fail to really debate any of them.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The nation’s mortality rate is forecast to increase 3 percent while life expectancy will drop 0.5 percent over the next 15 years, representing 890,000 more American deaths, according to a working paper from researchers at Duke, Harvard and Johns Hopkins universities. Over a 20-year period, that amounts to 1.37 million additional deaths.

Here is the topic, that you continue to ignore.

I haven't ignored it at all.  The topic arises in this section because it relates to Covid's impact on mortality rates.  As you yourself framed the topic, there is an “economic fallout from the coronavirus”.  You created the deviation by asking why I don't discuss other illnesses as a cause of death.  That makes no sense.

I choose to follow the original topic, not because I am callous to other illnesses, but because those other illnesses don't fit the relevant matter.  If you like, create another thread, in the appropriate section, and discuss anything you want.

This is a section totally devoted to coronavirus, and a thread within about the coronavirus and its economic consequences.  While I have great sympathy for other threats to life, right now I'm more interested in discussing the economic consequences of Covid.  If we don't focus, we squander all of our sympathies, in all directions, and fail to really debate any of them.

Yeah, you have, but that's fine.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I haven't ignored it at all.  The topic arises in this section because it relates to Covid's impact on mortality rates.  As you yourself framed the topic, there is an “economic fallout from the coronavirus”.  You created the deviation by asking why I don't discuss other illnesses as a cause of death.  That makes no sense.

I choose to follow the original topic, not because I am callous to other illnesses, but because those other illnesses don't fit the relevant matter.  If you like, create another thread, in the appropriate section, and discuss anything you want.

This is a section totally devoted to coronavirus, and a thread within about the coronavirus and its economic consequences.  While I have great sympathy for other threats to life, right now I'm more interested in discussing the economic consequences of Covid.  If we don't focus, we squander all of our sympathies, in all directions, and fail to really debate any of them.

Yeah, you have, but that's fine.

Not.