Has a workable vaccine been discovered at last?

Will we be able to make plans....and actually carry them out again soon?
The vaccination, after further testing should be ready soon, given to the oldest, care givers, then gradually working down to others as more is made available.
Is this the light at the end of the tunnel?
God, I hope so.

"Hopes are soaring that a Covid vaccine is within reach, following news that an interim analysis has shown Pfizer/BioNTech’s candidate was 90% effective in protecting people from transmission of the virus in global trials.

The vaccine performed much better than most experts had hoped for, according to the companies’ analysis, and brings into view a potential end to a pandemic that has killed more than a million people, battered economies and upended daily life worldwide.

The data is from an interim analysis and the trial continues into December but the headline results were emphatic. Regulators will be looking to process an emergency licence application at record speed."








https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/09/covid-19-vaccine-candidate-effective-pfizer-biontech

The Pfizer vaccine is based upon a rare scientific technique.  It is RNA-based, and requires a back-door approached never used before.  But we'll take it.

However, it requires being stored at minus hundreds of degrees, and will require infrastructure (freezer containers) as well as the vaccine being widely distributed and maintained.  They say it will take a year before the common person can get it.

Wouldn't it have been better if, instead of denying the pandemic, we had spent this past year developing this vaccine?  This is the same technology that the Pandemic Research Team was involved in...until, of course, Trump terminated the program.  Gd move, pussy-grabber!

Its good news but as I am deep down inside a conspiracy theorist, a doom sayer, suspicious and a coward in some ways, I think I'll hang back a bit and see how it goes on a few others.

Original Quill wrote:The Pfizer vaccine is based upon a rare scientific technique.  It is RNA-based, and requires a back-door approached never used before.  But we'll take it.

However, it requires being stored at minus hundreds of degrees, and will require infrastructure (freezer containers) as well as the vaccine being widely distributed and maintained.  They say it will take a year before the common person can get it.

Wouldn't it have been better if, instead of denying the pandemic, we had spent this past year developing this vaccine?  This is the same technology that the Pandemic Research Team was involved in...until, of course, Trump terminated the program.  Gd move, pussy-grabber!

Pharmaceutical companies have been working on this since day one. Not just American ones either.

Not everything involves your bogeyman.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:The Pfizer vaccine is based upon a rare scientific technique.  It is RNA-based, and requires a back-door approached never used before.  But we'll take it.

However, it requires being stored at minus hundreds of degrees, and will require infrastructure (freezer containers) as well as the vaccine being widely distributed and maintained.  They say it will take a year before the common person can get it.

Wouldn't it have been better if, instead of denying the pandemic, we had spent this past year developing this vaccine?  This is the same technology that the Pandemic Research Team was involved in...until, of course, Trump terminated the program.  Gd move, pussy-grabber!

Pharmaceutical companies have been working on this since day one.  Not just American ones either.

Not everything involves your bogeyman.

Really? The entire medical community was caught unawares by the Covid-19 virus. How could the pharmaceutical companies have been developing a vaccine for a virus they didn't even know exists?

The medical community was caught unawares because Trump hid the intelligence of the viruses existence; and because he disbanded the only advanced research team that was keeping track of this kind of danger. It is a working example of how denial is dangerous.

They were already working on MERS and SARS so the possibility of other viruses in this family emerging must have been known. I'm sure companies don't actually just wait for stuff to arise the possibilities of new viruses emerging must always be on the agenda for the research companies and government health departments or other institutions, WHO, UN. There are always places researching viruses for vaccines and anti virals and no doubt manipulating them.

Vintage wrote:They were already working on MERS and SARS so the possibility of other viruses in this family emerging must have been known. I'm sure companies don't actually just wait for stuff to arise the possibilities of new viruses emerging must always be on the agenda for the research companies and government health departments or other institutions, WHO, UN. There are always places researching viruses for vaccines and anti virals and no doubt manipulating them.

Trump disbanded the Pandemic Response Team, which had spared us from the likes of SARS, Ebola and H1N1 dangers. The Pandemic Response Team was the very unit in the US dedicated to overseeing response to disease on all fronts, including measures and procedures, research and development, international trending of spreads, therapeutics and vaccines, logistics and administration of viral threats.

Trump cavalierly waved off objections to eliminating this unit, claiming that it was the idea of a black president, who was not born in the country...and, well, you know how black people are. It was part of his regulation-pruning...he claimed that it was a regulatory (public protection) agency, that was too expensive for the US.

So yes, the elimination of the top agency, tasked with preventing this very kind of disease spread, in the richest and most powerful nation in the world, is a big deal. No, the companies don't wait for research and development...they produce throat lozenges and snake-bite kits--stuff that makes money--until the agency comes around and tells them to get to work on important disease prevention research.

So, now, here we are…no agency, no research. The previous Republican administration created a similar disaster by pruning back oil drilling regulation in the Gulf of Mexico, so regulation-pruning is not new. But, whereas the Gulf of Mexico is a environmental concern, this one was to kill human beings...a quarter of a millions citizens of the US, and we are still counting.

Trump deserved to be fired.

Vintage wrote:Its good news but as I am deep down inside a conspiracy theorist, a doom sayer, suspicious and a coward in some ways, I think I'll hang back a bit and see how it goes on a few others.

I think had this government said they will first give it the over 80's in care homes, then the over 75's, then the over 60's and so on, I would have been suspicious, but as they are including NHS staff and care givers in the first batch, I don't see how they can be acting in any way but honourably.

It's not nice to be so distrustful of the people who call the shots, but sadly I am.

Syl wrote:

Vintage wrote:Its good news but as I am deep down inside a conspiracy theorist, a doom sayer, suspicious and a coward in some ways, I think I'll hang back a bit and see how it goes on a few others.

I think had this government said they will first give it the over 80's in care homes, then the over 75's, then the over 60's  and so on, I would have been suspicious, but as they are including NHS staff and care givers in the first batch, I don't see how they can be acting in any way but honourably.

It's not nice to be so distrustful of the people who call the shots, but sadly I am.

With good reason...

This virus has been turned into a political football. You want to hear news from the bio-chemists and medical professionals, and instead you hear the wishes and dreams of those whose sole motive is to see their stock prices rise. Their concern is not about keeping people alive, but rekindling the economy.

They have every reason to lie, and won't hesitate. The pharmas have been encouraged by policy-makers cutting corners, and removing safeguards to the development of therapeutics and vaccines willy-nilly. I don't want to be a guinea pig to their greed, either.

So I too will hesitate to get a vaccination until I see substantial results of its working, and not causing collateral harm.

I am certainly not an anti Vaxxer Quill, I have the flu jab every year and my son had all the relevant vaccinations when he was young, but....

There has been so much misinformation about vaccines over the last few years, and I would rather something be properly tested and not just rushed out to quell a virus that is causing world economy to collapse.

I will have it when offered though....whenever that may be.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Pharmaceutical companies have been working on this since day one.  Not just American ones either.

Not everything involves your bogeyman.

Really?  The entire medical community was caught unawares by the Covid-19 virus.  How could the pharmaceutical companies have been developing a vaccine for a virus they didn't even know exists?

The medical community was caught unawares because Trump hid the intelligence of the viruses existence; and because he disbanded the only advanced research team that was keeping track of this kind of danger.  It is a working example of how denial is dangerous.

Ever hear of the WHO?

They were aware of it in late 2019.

You're bogeyman doesn't control them.

I'm not an anti vaxxer either I just like to see positive results over time first, obviously I might be different if it was Ebola or something similar. My daughter works for the NHS so she will have it, so its a bit of a worry.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Really?  The entire medical community was caught unawares by the Covid-19 virus.  How could the pharmaceutical companies have been developing a vaccine for a virus they didn't even know exists?

The medical community was caught unawares because Trump hid the intelligence of the viruses existence; and because he disbanded the only advanced research team that was keeping track of this kind of danger.  It is a working example of how denial is dangerous.

Ever hear of the WHO?

They were aware of it in late 2019.  

You're bogeyman doesn't control them.  

I know. But the bogeyman does control the US Department of Health (and human services), which could have warned everybody. Have you ever heard the tape produced by Bob Woodward, in telephonic conversations with Donald Trump? He has Trump openly admitting on January 28th that it is a pandemic, but he doesn't want to make the public aware of it.

This, from the guy who disbanded the Pandemic Response Team. Small wonder that he wants to keep it quiet.

Europe has its own disease detectives at the European centre for Disease Control, the Uk has its own disease control setup looking for any mention of something emerging, so probably have other countries, while its a shame the US have dismantled theirs, I don't think its a case of there being no one keeping vigilant.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Ever hear of the WHO?

They were aware of it in late 2019.  

You're bogeyman doesn't control them.  

I know.  But the bogeyman does control the US Department of Health (and human services), which could have warned everybody.  Have you ever heard the tape produced by Bob Woodward, in telephonic conversations with Donald Trump?  He has Trump openly admitting on January 28th that it is a pandemic, but he doesn't want to make the public aware of it.

This, from the guy who disbanded the Pandemic Response Team.  Small wonder that he wants to keep it quiet.

Thankfully HH and S doesnt make vaccines.

Vintage wrote:Europe has its own disease detectives at the European centre for Disease Control, the Uk has its own disease control setup looking for any mention of something emerging, so probably have other countries, while its a shame the US have dismantled theirs, I don't think its a case of there being no one keeping vigilant.

But, the US is the most advanced, richest, most powerful economy and nation in the world, otherwise (than Trump) dedicated to the world's health and well-being. WHO is United Nations, and in fact they are headquartered in New York. And, while I would trust the UK on pandemics and world health matters, I don't think I would trust the Italians or the Spanish.

These agencies are supposed to work together. If you remove a major member nation, that produces a huge void. That's precisely what Trump did in disbanding the Pandemic Response Team.

I'm sure its a major gap, I'll give you the richest, most powerful economy but I'd hesitate with most advanced, maybe in some things but certainly not in many others. I don't mean to be insulting but you make it sound a bit Flash Gordon.

Vintage wrote:I'm sure its a major gap, I'll give you the richest, most powerful economy but I'd hesitate with most advanced, maybe in some things but certainly not in many others. I don't mean to be insulting but you make it sound a bit Flash Gordon.

You are not insulting me. British chauvinism is renowned...if you're talking among Brits and you don't acknowledge the British are the best, you're in trouble.

I know the facts, and they back me when I say that this country is among the top three or four in the bio-science research and preparedness field. Johns Hopkins University Medical Center, Harvard University Med School, Stanford University Medical School and Emory University Bio-Sciences School are the equal to the University of Edinburgh Bio-Sciences School, considered the best in the UK.

This nation has to be deliberately reined-in in order to be kept from advancing, and that is exactly what Trump did by cancelling the Pandemic Response Team. Trump calls it too expensive, but we know that 'dumbing-down' is what Trump does when confronted with superiority. Unfortunately, Republicans are from the same mold.

Vintage wrote:I'm sure its a major gap, I'll give you the richest, most powerful economy but I'd hesitate with most advanced, maybe in some things but certainly not in many others. I don't mean to be insulting but you make it sound a bit Flash Gordon.

He's full of shit!

Not at all, I wasn't actually thinking of Britain as THE best, just a little more humbly as among the best, I understand and always have that other countries have the opportunity and the education to do good things as well. I prefer to share out the praise not hold it for ourselves. I don't think any one country is the greatest or best as such, when we co operate we can be great and the best. People in most countries think their country is pretty good but that's because they live there and it suits them, doesn't mean it is though to others.

Maddog wrote:

Vintage wrote:I'm sure its a major gap, I'll give you the richest, most powerful economy but I'd hesitate with most advanced, maybe in some things but certainly not in many others. I don't mean to be insulting but you make it sound a bit Flash Gordon.

He's full of shit!

Fortunately, this thread is not about me. If you mean to say that the US is backwards in terms of the bio-sciences, you've been in Texas too long.

Vintage wrote:Not at all, I wasn't actually thinking of Britain as THE best, just a little more humbly as among the best, I understand and always have that other countries have the opportunity and the education to do good things as well. I prefer to share out the praise not hold it for ourselves. I don't think any one country is the greatest or best as such, when we co operate we can be great and the best.  People in most countries think their country is pretty good but that's because they live there and it suits them, doesn't mean it is though to others.

Forgive the poke.  I have many friends/clients from Canada, New Zealand and Australia, and the jab about British-chauvinism is from them (and on behalf of colonists everywhere   ).

In this conversation, we come from a policy-maker who has a huge intellectual-deficit complex.  He makes policy on his own level, so that I feel I must constantly excuse his assumptions, and build up the 'used-to-be' bio-sciences capability of this country.

Trump, in his small mind, has chosen to see the entire bio-sciences discipline as in competition with his stock portfolio.  Consequently, he refuses to even listen to the doctors about this pandemic.  He wants to ignore the doctors, and get people back to work...fook 'em, if they die.

The result is that he has withdrawn the US capabilities from the worldwide bio-sciences effort, and disengaged us from the WHO.  I wasn't trying to place us in the position of Flash Gordon; but I was striving to say, remember us, still knowledgeable, still working...

Flash Gordon is now over there, in the loser's pew.

Fair enough. It's a shame what he has done, I have a feeling we are going to need all the bio science brains we can find and co operate fully
more than ever.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

He's full of shit!

Fortunately, this thread is not about me.  If you mean to say that the US is backwards in terms of the bio-sciences, you've been in Texas too long.  

No.

I mean to say you are full of shit.

Meanwhile, it's good news that Pfizer seems very close to a vaccine that is fairly effective.

None of this has anything to do with any politician on the planet either.

It's great news that a virus is incoming, though, like others, I'd want to be absolutely sure it is rigorously tested before having it myself.

And yeah, it doesn't really involved who is in the highest office in any country. But it is REALLY funny how they announced it right after Biden was called by MSM. Weren't going to give that little nugget for Trump to parade about before November 3rd

Eilzel wrote:It's great news that a virus is incoming, though, like others, I'd want to be absolutely sure it is rigorously tested before having it myself.

And yeah, it doesn't really involved who is in the highest office in any country. But it is REALLY funny how they announced it right after Biden was called by MSM. Weren't going to give that little nugget for Trump to parade about before November 3rd

Pfizer was asked about the timing of the announcement. They said the election wasn't taken into account. Who knows? Trump has tried to take credit for his Operation Warp Speed being responsible. Pfizer has made it clear this wasn't done with government money. I guess he you could argue that Trump cut through some red tape. From what I understand, it's already been used on volunteers over here.

Maddog wrote:

Eilzel wrote:It's great news that a virus is incoming, though, like others, I'd want to be absolutely sure it is rigorously tested before having it myself.

And yeah, it doesn't really involved who is in the highest office in any country. But it is REALLY funny how they announced it right after Biden was called by MSM. Weren't going to give that little nugget for Trump to parade about before November 3rd

Pfizer was asked about the timing of the announcement. They said the election wasn't taken into account. Who knows?   Trump has tried to take credit for his Operation Warp Speed being responsible.  Pfizer has made it clear this wasn't done with government money. I guess he you could argue that Trump cut through some red tape. From what I understand, it's  already been used on volunteers over here.  

I have no idea what the impact of Trump might have been. Whether it is was for better or for worse or anything. As you said, I doubt in the grand scheme of things politics has anything to with it.

But if they'd announced it earlier then Trump would definitely have used the fact (so would a Democrat, tbf, almost certainly) and I'm glad he couldn't.

Eilzel wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Pfizer was asked about the timing of the announcement. They said the election wasn't taken into account. Who knows?   Trump has tried to take credit for his Operation Warp Speed being responsible.  Pfizer has made it clear this wasn't done with government money. I guess he you could argue that Trump cut through some red tape. From what I understand, it's  already been used on volunteers over here.  

I have no idea what the impact of Trump might have been. Whether it is was for better or for worse or anything. As you said, I doubt in the grand scheme of things politics has anything to with it.

But if they'd announced it earlier then Trump would definitely have used the fact (so would a Democrat, tbf, almost certainly) and I'm glad he couldn't.

I think this went down like a lot of things in life. The best "help" is just staying out of the way and keeping others out of the way.

People like to bitch about Big Pharma, but they can accomplish a lot when left alone. However, leaving people alone isn't something politicians do well.

Other vaccines are also nearly ready as they have nearly completed their respective testing phases...

I would question anything that was developed in America during the Trump administration. It was created for expediency, and not according to scientific rigor.

I don't need a vaccine that helps the economy, but leaves everyone dead.

Vintage wrote:Its good news but as I am deep down inside a conspiracy theorist, a doom sayer, suspicious and a coward in some ways, I think I'll hang back a bit and see how it goes on a few others.

I’m with you on that one.

Original Quill wrote:I would question anything that was developed in America during the Trump administration.  It was created for expediency, and not according to scientific rigor.

I don't need a vaccine that helps the economy, but leaves everyone dead.

Does Trump run Pfizer now?

eddie wrote:

Vintage wrote:Its good news but as I am deep down inside a conspiracy theorist, a doom sayer, suspicious and a coward in some ways, I think I'll hang back a bit and see how it goes on a few others.

I’m with you on that one.

Study enrolled 43,538 participants, with 42% having diverse backgrounds, and no serious safety concerns have been observed; Safety and additional efficacy data continue to be collected

Is almost 50,000 people a few?

But, since I'm not high risk, I may wait awhile too.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:I would question anything that was developed in America during the Trump administration.  It was created for expediency, and not according to scientific rigor.

I don't need a vaccine that helps the economy, but leaves everyone dead.

Does Trump run Pfizer now?

No, but he steers it by relaxing the rigors they must go through with a Covid vaccine. What is needed with vaccine development is time, and time is what Trump has little of.

As I say, we don't need a vaccine that helps the economy, but leaves everyone dead.

Syl wrote:I thought it was German.

Corporate Mailing Address
Pfizer Inc.
235 East 42nd Street NY, NY 10017
(212) 733-2323

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Does Trump run Pfizer now?

No, but he steers it by relaxing the rigors they must go through with a Covid vaccine.  What is needed with vaccine development is time, and time is what Trump has little of.

As I say, we don't need a vaccine that helps the economy, but leaves everyone dead.

Yeah, we are kind of in a hurry. So everything is being rushed.

Pfizer Inc. (/ˈfaɪzər/) is an American multinational pharmaceutical corporation. It is one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies and ranked 57 on the 2018 Fortune 500 list of the largest United States corporations by total revenue.

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:I thought it was German.

Corporate Mailing Address
Pfizer Inc.
235 East 42nd Street NY, NY 10017
(212) 733-2323

I know...I googled after I posted that so withdrew the post.