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The Human Cost of Wokeness

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Post by Didgee on Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:06 am



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoLHRP5SXGo

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:06 pm

So, George Floyd and Jacob Blake are a past wounds? Haha...times moves quickly for this guy.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Didgee on Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:43 pm

Original Quill wrote:So, George Floyd and Jacob Blake are a past wounds?  Haha...times moves quickly for this guy.


What relevance do their deaths have with the experinces of this individual, his children and wife?

Seriously?

You think the mother is correct to racialized her children and with a view, that white people hate them?

We call that radicalization and I cannot think of anything more damaging when parents brainwahs children with such hateful views

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:07 pm

phil wrote:You think the mother is correct to racialized her children and with a view, that white people hate them?

... And will kill them, if given the chance. A mother's got to raise her children, first and foremost, with survival skills.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Didgee on Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:You think the mother is correct to racialized her children and with a view, that white people hate them?

... And will kill them, if given the chance.  A mother's got to raise her children, first and foremost, with survival skills.


By teaching them hate?

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Post by Maddog on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:43 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

... And will kill them, if given the chance.  A mother's got to raise her children, first and foremost, with survival skills.


By teaching them hate?

Quill knows who is most likely to kill black folks.

Like white folks, people are usually killed by people of their own race.

So survival skills would entail teaching children to watch out for the folks that look like them as they present the biggest threat.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:55 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

... And will kill them, if given the chance.  A mother's got to raise her children, first and foremost, with survival skills.

By teaching them hate?

By teaching her children caution.  Survival is about knowing who the bad guys are, and how the bad guys can harm them.  This is routine in black families in America, where a hostile white plurality is waiting to bring harm to them.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:19 pm

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

For anyone actually interested in facts and not propaganda.

In 2016 for example, 2,870 black people were murdered. 2,570 of them were murdered by other black people.

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Post by Vintage on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:21 pm

So, how does this make them feel about their father and his/their white relatives.
Does the mother explain that they are the exception to her rule or is she teaching them to hate everyone of pale skin.
Apologies if this was covered I didn't manage to get to the bitter end.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:47 pm

Vintage wrote:So, how does this make them feel about their father and his/their white relatives.
Does the mother explain that they are the exception to her rule or is she teaching them to hate everyone of pale skin.
Apologies if this was covered I didn't manage to get to the bitter end.

The OP clip doesn't say.  But I would suspect that it is directed outward.  The children would understand that they are "those whites" that are hostile to them, not someone within their own family.

There are complications with a multi-racial family, no doubt.  But a white father should surely understand survival skills being taught to his children.  Mother’s routinely caution their children, don’t accept rides from strangers, etc.  A black mother has the additional task of warning her black child about hostile whites.

These are necessary skills that should be taught to any black child in white American society.  What father, black or white, wants to see his child end up like George Floyd or Breanna Taylor?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Vintage on Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:55 pm

A violent criminal you mean, in the case of George Floyd.
Obviously no one should die in such circumstances but equally no police officer should be gunned down or stabbed because he gives someone the benefit of the doubt for a second.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:20 pm

Vintage wrote:A violent criminal you mean, in the case of George Floyd.
Obviously no one should die in such circumstances but equally no police officer should be gunned down or stabbed because he gives someone the benefit of the doubt for a second.

Nonsense.  Perhaps you have confused Floyd's case with another.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:39 pm

https://www.snopes.com/news/2020/06/12/george-floyd-criminal-record/

He spent time in prison for violent crimes.

While it may not matter in regards to his death, it is a fact and to claim otherwise is just flat out being dishonest.

Not that dishonesty matters to some folks around here.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:30 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didgee wrote:

By teaching them hate?

By teaching her children caution.  Survival is about knowing who the bad guys are, and how the bad guys can harm them.  This is routine in black families in America, where a hostile white plurality is waiting to bring harm to them.


Gibberish, its fundamentally teaching her mixed ethnic child to hate and to fear white people. Of which one side of her family is white

Its odd how you are using the same views and claims of white supremacist survivalists

They come out with the exact same hateful crap

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:49 am

Maddog wrote:While it may not matter in regards to his death...

That answers that question right there. Floyd's death had nothing to do with any prison record.

Keep in mind that Floyd’s murder is only an illustration of the dangers that black children face growing up in a predominately white, post-slavery society. The mother in the OP has a legitimate concern about her children, because of their dark skin, being killed by whites.

If you don’t like that example, try on Ahmaud Arbery or, to repeat, Breanna Taylor. The list is endless.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:33 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:While it may not matter in regards to his death...

That answers that question right there.  Floyd's death had nothing to do with any prison record.

Keep in mind that Floyd’s murder is only an illustration of the dangers that black children face growing up in a predominately white, post-slavery society.  The mother in the OP has a legitimate concern about her children, because of their dark skin, being killed by whites.

If you don’t like that example, try on Ahmaud Arbery or, to repeat, Breanna Taylor.  The list is endless.

It answered part of the question.

Whether his record matters or not he had a violent one, contrary to your claim.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:46 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That answers that question right there.  Floyd's death had nothing to do with any prison record.

Keep in mind that Floyd’s murder is only an illustration of the dangers that black children face growing up in a predominately white, post-slavery society.  The mother in the OP has a legitimate concern about her children, because of their dark skin, being killed by whites.

If you don’t like that example, try on Ahmaud Arbery or, to repeat, Breanna Taylor.  The list is endless.

It answered part of the question.

Whether his record matters or not he had a violent one, contrary to your claim.  

I make no claim.  Floyd's death is just a factual example, among many examples available.

This thread is about a woman trying to protect her dark-skinned children.  Seems to me she's got a point.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:03 am

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

By teaching her children caution.  Survival is about knowing who the bad guys are, and how the bad guys can harm them.  This is routine in black families in America, where a hostile white plurality is waiting to bring harm to them.

Its odd how you are using the same views and claims of white supremacist survivalists

They come out with the exact same hateful crap

Yet...who, among those white supremacist survivalists, has died with a white police officer slowly murdering him by a knee to the neck? Who has the proof?

Same views?  I fail to see the equivalency.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:12 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

It answered part of the question.

Whether his record matters or not he had a violent one, contrary to your claim.  

I make no claim.  Floyd's death is just a factual example, among many examples available.

This thread is about a woman trying to protect her dark-skinned children.  Seems to me she's got a point.


Quill wrote:Nonsense. Perhaps you have confused Floyd's case with another.


You made the claim right here.

Are you already going to resume being a lying sack of shit?

Because if you are, I'll remind you every time that you do it, what kind of sorry pieces of shit liars are.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:12 am

Original Quill wrote:
Didgee wrote:

Its odd how you are using the same views and claims of white supremacist survivalists

They come out with the exact same hateful crap

Yet...who, among those white supremacist survivalists, has died with a white police officer slowly murdering him by a knee to the neck?  Who has the proof?

Same views?  I fail to see the equivalency.

False equivalency. in regards to the hate that white supremacists use in regards to their hate of blacks

Yet you use the same fear methodology as they do in regards to hating people of another race

Again you are defending a mother teaching children hate

Whether they are black or white supremacist, its child abuse what they are doing

As you do not see the Jews teaching their children to grow up hating and fearing the Germans do you?

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Post by Syl on Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:11 pm

Watched half the video.
Simply put surely teaching any black child to fear and hate the white man is as bad as teaching white kids to distrust and hate the black race.

If enough black people are brain washed by extremist views I fear for future generations. This isn't 'racial awakening',  it's plain nasty racism, which  should be fading out, not reborn and encouraged with the shoe on the other foot.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:15 pm

Syl wrote:Watched half the video.
Simply put surely teaching any black child to fear and hate the white man is as bad as teaching white kids to distrust and hate the black race.

If enough black people are brain washed by extremist views I fear for future generations. This isn't 'racial awakening',  it's plain nasty racism, which  should be fading out, not reborn and encouraged with the shoe on the other foot.

+1

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Post by Maddog on Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:19 pm

Syl wrote:Watched half the video.
Simply put surely teaching any black child to fear and hate the white man is as bad as teaching white kids to distrust and hate the black race.

If enough black people are brain washed by extremist views I fear for future generations. This isn't 'racial awakening',  it's plain nasty racism, which  should be fading out, not reborn and encouraged with the shoe on the other foot.

Fear is the basis for hate and anger. Fear comes from a lack of understanding. This borders on child abuse.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:01 pm

Syl wrote:Watched half the video.
Simply put surely teaching any black child to fear and hate the white man is as bad as teaching white kids to distrust and hate the black race.

If enough black people are brain washed by extremist views I fear for future generations. This isn't 'racial awakening',  it's plain nasty racism, which  should be fading out, not reborn and encouraged with the shoe on the other foot.

I think that “fear and hate” are two overly-critical terms for this situation.  Keep in mind that the mother’s actions/words are coming to us through double hearsay, from two not altogether unbiased witnesses.  I would certainly like to hear from the mother directly, before passing judgment.

More probably, the husband doesn’t understand his wife’s precautions, having never been through what blacks go through every day.  (Keep in mind, most white folks, like Chief Justice Roberts in Shelby County v. Holder, think things are going swimmingly for blacks, while in fact blacks are being killed by white police in the streets.)  Then the story is picked up and spun further by a RW blogger, who turns the letter into a cause célèbre, injecting his own politics on the matter.

In the end we have a mother doing what every mother does, teaching her children how to be safe and secure in a hostile world.  Who faults a woman for being a good mother?

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog on Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:24 pm

Quill thinks this woman is teaching her kids to fear the police. She is actually teaching her kids to fear people like Quill and their father.

When in reality, you are far more likely to harmed or killed by folks of your own race.

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Post by Vintage on Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:30 pm

It's not just black people though there are incidents being looked into of at least 32 previous incidents similar to the George Floyd killing and half of those are white. Then there's Tony Tampa in Dallas.
There has to be an enquiry into over zealous policing but it needs bearing in mind police officers go out every day hoping they will make it through the day when encountering violent and drugged up people resisting arrest.
Violence has escalated on both sides.
If I remember you were against all Muslim men being tarred with the same brush re the grooming gangs, yet fully supportive of this mother that tars all white people the same
which must include her white husband and in laws, otherwise she'd have to explain there could be exceptions with them and therefore has to be exceptions in the general white population as well.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:55 pm

Maddog wrote:Quill thinks this woman is teaching her kids to fear the police. She is actually teaching her kids to fear people like Quill and their father.  

When in reality, you are far more likely to harmed or killed by folks of your own race.  

You need to read the Shaw quote, in Ben's signature.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:14 pm

Vintage wrote:It's not just black people though there are incidents being looked into of at least 32 previous incidents similar to the George Floyd killing and half of those are white. Then there's Tony Tampa in Dallas.
There has to be an enquiry into over zealous policing but it needs bearing in mind police officers go out every day hoping they will make it through the day when encountering violent and drugged up people resisting arrest.
Violence has escalated on both sides.

No doubt.  But it begins with white police accelerating confrontations with blacks.  Racial profiling in America is rampant.  https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-020-0858-1

Also, if half of the victims of over-zealous police are white, that means the other half of them are black.  Only 13% of the US population is black, meaning that far too many of the incidents are happening to blacks in proportion to their numbers in the overall American population.

It lends real substance to the BLM movement.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Vintage on Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:19 pm

Yet we don't know the ethnicity of the police officers involved, its not always a white problem surely, there are many non white police officers so some must be involved as well.
So its not always a black/white racist thing.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:47 pm

Vintage wrote: If I remember you were against all Muslim men being tarred with the same brush re the grooming gangs, yet fully supportive of this mother that tars all white people the same
which must include her white husband and in laws, otherwise she'd have to explain there could be exceptions with them and therefore has to be exceptions in the general white population as well.

Yes. I think you will agree with me, Vint, that racism is often a vicious cycle. It America, it began with revolutionaries declaring that “all men are created equal”. Then, counter-revolutionaries started the civil war in order to maintain slavery. Since then, it has been back and forth, back and forth, between counter-revolutionaries and revolutionaries on the question of blacks.

I believe in the original revolutionaries, and condemn the need for any racial stratification. If it doesn’t start, then the cycle doesn’t begin turning. If I can stop the profiling of Muslims, we would have a society without another ethnic/religious, if not racial stratification. Of course, I want to prevent another start-up.

But here we are dealing with a cycle that has already started. Because blacks are in the unprivileged minority (13%), they are set upon by the biased police officers in the system. Black parents have long ago recognized this, and warned their children of the attitudes of whites about them…particularly, in the south where the trouble is rampant.

This issue arises because of a fundamentally positive thing. Isn’t it wonderful that we have reached a point where whites and blacks can intermarry—where once it was illegal? See, Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967). But, many in the world ‘out-there’ don’t change so easily, and a black mother must repeat the rules that all black parents have taught over the centuries: stay out of the white man’s way!

It’s probably one of the many adjustments that mixed couples must accept and make adjustment for…but the children are worth it.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:03 pm

Vintage wrote:Yet we don't know the ethnicity of the police officers involved, its not always a white problem surely, there are many non white police officers so some must be involved as well.
So its not always a black/white racist thing.

Specific skin-color is not always the issue. That’s why we speak of ‘institutional racism’. As we have seen with the inferior officers in the Floyd-Minneapolis case, institutions work first on rules, and secondarily on norms. The precise skin-color of the individual officer is less determinative than the rules/norms of the institution, the police department.

In the Floyd-Minneapolis case, one stand-by officer was even a minority (Asian). But the rule is: in order to get along, you go along. In that case it cost a black man his life.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:04 pm

Vintage wrote:Yet we don't know the ethnicity of the police officers involved, its not always a white  problem surely, there are many non white police officers so some must be involved as well.
So its not always a black/white racist thing.

Quill wants to live in the past and feeds into how the media hype, that only Unarmed African Americans shot by the Police
The reality is more unarmed whites are shot by the police and yet nobody bats an eyelid
So when the media accentuate any shootings of blacks.
Its through an immediate presumption this is down to racism
No other avenues are explored

The reality is of those shot by the Police it will fall under a spectrum

From genuine justified to errors to incompetence to racism. With the vast majority of shootings that kill someone in the middle

The stats show that in reality shootings of unarmed people are extremely rare in situations with the Police from 2019

The Police arrest around 10 million people each year in the US

7 million are white/latino

3 Million are African American

25 unarmed white citizens were killed in 2019 by Police

14 unarmed African Americans were killed in 2019 by Police

That is roughly 0.0004% of Unarmed black people killed by the Police when arrested

If there is an endemic of institutional racism by the police. Then why is the number not exponentially larger?

The reason?

Because most Police handle the arrest of people very well without incidents

The vast majority of these cases happen when resisting arrest

As I said the main issues is around how I think the Police need ongoing training how to handle many different scenarios toi help prevent more of these incidents happening.

Where there is bad or poor cops, they should of course be prosecuted

This shows that a large number of people including certain media in the US. Clearly have a vested interest in using African Americans to sow political divide in the US. As do politicians on both sides

The reality is an African American is vastly more likely to be murdered by someone who is African American than they ever will be by someone white or the Police

Yes we need to tackle racism, but if by the above stats quill think this justifies teaching a child to hate white people

Then it shows he is like many politically driven people intent on seeking to create a racial war in the US

The reality is again its this critical race bullshit that is driving the kind of racism this mother is teaching her child

Yes we need to tackle racism from the minority of white people who are racist, but it also wrong to teach African American children to hate and fear whites

What Quill is saying and justifying is the fear and hate of Muslims, based off Islamic extremists. Using his methodology

Two wrongs do not make a right

The Jews are by and large the only ethnic group around today, who have been persecuted, murdered, ethnically cleansed, rape etc. In more places and times in history than any Black ethnic group. Yet you will not see many of them teach their children to fear and hate the many ethnic groups that have persecuted them throughout history. Jews suffer horrendous hate crimes today also

Evan a Harvard Black professor showed that Blacks were less likely to be shot and killed by white officers

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/fryer_police_aer.pdf

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Post by Vintage on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:15 pm

Agree with Didge, good points.
As for colour not always being the issue then you have to agree this kind of thing can and does potentially happen to anyone and can be anyone involved so why is there a BLM organisation, why not a ALM - all lives matter. Its not a one way street - people are involved in drugs and criminality for the most part and for whatever reason, probably drugs violently resist arrest. What would happen if such a person was allowed to go on their way because restraining them may injure or kill them and they go on to injure or kill another innocent person - probably be ok if the last victim were white I suppose.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:18 pm

phil wrote:Quill wants to live in the past and feeds into how the media hype, that only Unarmed African Americans shot by the Police.

To deny it, in the face of facts, would be foolish, wouldn't you agree?

I mean, sure some people have pre-judged the facts beforehand, and make up excuses after-the-fact, but we know who they are at the git-go. They are people who accept the sin of fundamental inequality and don't really care about moral principles at all.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:25 pm

Vintage wrote:Agree with Didge, good points.
As for colour not always being the issue then you have to agree this kind of thing can and does potentially happen to anyone and can be anyone involved so why is there a BLM organisation, why not a ALM - all lives matter. Its not a one way street - people are involved in drugs and criminality for the most part and for whatever reason, probably drugs violently resist arrest. What would happen if such a person was allowed to go on their way because restraining them may injure or kill them and they go on to injure or kill another innocent person - probably be ok if the last victim were white I suppose.

+1

Agreed Vintage

Why does nobody care when someone white an unarmed is killed by the Police?
Where is the protests?

I will tell you why, because the value of a persons life today if white. Is worth of a lesser value than someone African American killed by the police. To those of the critical race theory.

When both should be equal in value to why their deaths were wrong

As the view is it could not possible be or conceivable be down to racism, hence their deaths are ignored. No matter if a wrong has been done in their deaths

It shows that whenever it is someone African American that is unarmed and killed by the Police. The view line like I said. Always starts from a position of racism.

The US has become a nation of guilty until proven innocent, in regards to the deaths of African Americans.

There is no protests or riots, when it does not feed into a racist narrative. When unarmed white people are killed by the Police. Which means sadly these lives lost do not matter to the BLM movement

The fact is its the kind of rhetoric around these shootings and a view of racism. That to me leads to more of these situations potentially rising. A view that Quills thinks is okay to teach. To fear cops and white people. Leads a to more and more suspected criminal African Americans resisting arrest. Hence these situations that arise are a by-product of the hate and fear being instilled into many African Americans..

Would any of the unarmed people be alive today, if they had not resisted arrest?

This is not excusing whether they were potentially murdered, but it raises the question around why this happens  when people resist arrest. A fear has been instilled, that is clearly being grossly over exaggerated around the Police. When its based off a number of decades ago and not the reality of today


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Post by Original Quill on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:43 pm

Vintage wrote:As for colour not always being the issue then you have to agree this kind of thing can and does potentially happen to anyone and can be anyone involved so why is there a BLM organisation, why not a ALM - all lives matter.

I didn't say that color is not always the issue of race. I said the color of the perp police officer is not always the issue. Institutional racism is often a higher authority, and it is certainly based on color of skin.

But you raise a great question when it comes to BLM. BLM does not exist, nor does it argue that police atrocities do not happen to all races. BLM draws strength from the obviousness of the barbarity, when it happens. It is really more a rhetorical question of: How would you feel if this happened to you? Well, we matter too!

Why is BLM a movement? Because it happens in so much greater proportion to black people. Black males are the favorite pickings of white/white-oriented police departments, particularly in the southern US. Blacks are profiled. They are confronted, and violent incidents accelerated. They are arrested. They are imprisoned. And white judges and juries (particularly in the south) send them to white managed prisons. It’s all part of the racial ideology that America has set up for itself.

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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote:As for colour not always being the issue then you have to agree this kind of thing can and does potentially happen to anyone and can be anyone involved so why is there a BLM organisation, why not a ALM - all lives matter.

I didn't say that color is not always the issue of race.  I said the color of the perp police officer is not always the issue.  Institutional racism is often a higher authority, and it is certainly based on color of skin.



What institutional racism?

Which institutions?

Which laws?




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Post by Didgee on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:49 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Vintage wrote:As for colour not always being the issue then you have to agree this kind of thing can and does potentially happen to anyone and can be anyone involved so why is there a BLM organisation, why not a ALM - all lives matter.

I didn't say that color is not always the issue of race.  I said the color of the perp police officer is not always the issue.  Institutional racism is often a higher authority, and it is certainly based on color of skin.

But you raise a great question when it comes to BLM.  BLM does not exist, nor does it argue that police atrocities do not happen to all races.  BLM draws strength from the obviousness of the barbarity, when it happens.  It is really more a rhetorical question of: How would you feel if this happened to you?  Well, we matter too!

Why is BLM a movement?  Because it happens in so much greater proportion to black people.  Black males are the favorite pickings of white/white-oriented police departments, particularly in the southern US.  Blacks are profiled.  They are confronted, and violent incidents accelerated.  They are arrested.  They are imprisoned.  And white judges and juries (particularly in the south) send them to white managed prisons.  It’s all part of the racial ideology that America has set up for itself.

Quill ignores the data

Quill wants to live in the past and feeds into how the media hype, that only Unarmed African Americans shot by the Police
The reality is more unarmed whites are shot by the police and yet nobody bats an eyelid
So when the media accentuate any shootings of blacks.
Its through an immediate presumption this is down to racism
No other avenues are explored

The reality is of those shot by the Police it will fall under a spectrum

From genuine justified to errors to incompetence to racism. With the vast majority of shootings that kill someone in the middle

The stats show that in reality shootings of unarmed people are extremely rare in situations with the Police from 2019

The Police arrest around 10 million people each year in the US

7 million are white/latino

3 Million are African American

25 unarmed white citizens were killed in 2019 by Police

14 unarmed African Americans were killed in 2019 by Police

That is roughly 0.0004% of Unarmed black people killed by the Police when arrested

If there is an endemic of institutional racism by the police. Then why is the number not exponentially larger?

The reason?

Because most Police handle the arrest of people very well without incidents

The vast majority of these cases happen when resisting arrest

As I said the main issues is around how I think the Police need ongoing training how to handle many different scenarios toi help prevent more of these incidents happening.

Where there is bad or poor cops, they should of course be prosecuted

This shows that a large number of people including certain media in the US. Clearly have a vested interest in using African Americans to sow political divide in the US. As do politicians on both sides

The reality is an African American is vastly more likely to be murdered by someone who is African American than they ever will be by someone white or the Police

Yes we need to tackle racism, but if by the above stats quill think this justifies teaching a child to hate white people

Then it shows he is like many politically driven people intent on seeking to create a racial war in the US

The reality is again its this critical race bullshit that is driving the kind of racism this mother is teaching her child

Yes we need to tackle racism from the minority of white people who are racist, but it also wrong to teach African American children to hate and fear whites

What Quill is saying and justifying is the fear and hate of Muslims, based off Islamic extremists. Using his methodology

Two wrongs do not make a right

The Jews are by and large the only ethnic group around today, who have been persecuted, murdered, ethnically cleansed, rape etc. In more places and times in history than any Black ethnic group. Yet you will not see many of them teach their children to fear and hate the many ethnic groups that have persecuted them throughout history. Jews suffer horrendous hate crimes today also

Evan a Harvard Black professor showed that Blacks were less likely to be shot and killed by white officers

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/empirical_analysis_tables_figures.pdf

https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/fryer_police_aer.pdf

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:16 pm

Didgee wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I didn't say that color is not always the issue of race.  I said the color of the perp police officer is not always the issue.  Institutional racism is often a higher authority, and it is certainly based on color of skin.

What institutional racism?

Definition and Analysis of Institutional Racism wrote:Institutional racism is “the systematic distribution of resources, power and opportunity in our society to the benefit of people who are white and the exclusion of people of color.”

Didgee wrote:Which institutions?

Definition and Analysis of Institutional Racism wrote:In the United States, institutional racism has been responsible for slavery, settlement, Indian reservations, segregation, residential schools (for American Indians), and internment camps. While most of these institutions no longer exist, they have had long-term impacts on our society. As a result of institutional racism, racial stratification and disparities have occurred in employment, housing, education, healthcare, government and other sectors. While many laws were passed in the mid-20th century to make discrimination illegal, major inequalities still exist.

Didgee wrote:Which laws?

Definition and Analysis of Institutional Racism wrote:Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systematic policies and practices within institutions that effectually disadvantage certain racial or ethnic groups. Institutional racism can only exist in institutions where the power to enforce and perpetuate policies and practices is invested in white people.

https://www.racialequitytools.org/resourcefiles/institutionalracism.pdf

Very often, as in the institutional racism of police departments (particularly in the southern US), the habitual or institutional racism combines with the bigotry or racial bias of the individual police officer, as we have seen in Minneapolis, Kenosha and Rochester. For example, in those situations, the individual police officer does not hesitate to let loose his racial animus, relying on the immunity protection afforded to him by Qualified Police Immunity acts.

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/PartIXQualifiedImmunity.pdf

https://pacificlegal.org/qualified-immunity-government-overreach/

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Post by Didgee on Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:

Very often, as in the institutional racism of police departments (particularly in the southern US), the habitual or institutional racism combines with the bigotry or racial bias of the individual police officer, as we have seen in Minneapolis, Kenosha and Rochester.  For example, in those situations, the individual police officer does not hesitate to let loose his racial animus, relying on the immunity protection afforded to him by Qualified Police Immunity acts.  

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/PartIXQualifiedImmunity.pdf

https://pacificlegal.org/qualified-immunity-government-overreach/

1) So after asking which institutions, Quill failed to provide the name of any and went off past wrongs in the US Claims to Police departments which is easily debunked from my previous post which shows the actual data around police shootings. So no evidence to any Police department. Just Quills perceived hate of the Southern Police forces. In other words form from hostile stereotypical views of Southern people. Basically xenophobia


So try again, provide which institutions in the Us that you claim are institutionally racist?

2) I then asked which laws were racist and yet again, none were provided just a link to some critical race theory gobbledegook

Try again

Which laws in the US are racist?

In answer to the claptrap around the racist concept of critical race theory, the following easily debunk

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/reasons-critical-race-theory-terrible-dealing-racism/

https://newdiscourses.com/2020/06/principled-statement-opposition-critical-race-theory-excerpt-cynical-theories/

So this time actually answer the questions I posed to you with actual evidence of which actual laws. Which specific institutions

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Post by Syl on Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:54 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Watched half the video.
Simply put surely teaching any black child to fear and hate the white man is as bad as teaching white kids to distrust and hate the black race.

If enough black people are brain washed by extremist views I fear for future generations. This isn't 'racial awakening',  it's plain nasty racism, which  should be fading out, not reborn and encouraged with the shoe on the other foot.

I think that “fear and hate” are two overly-critical terms for this situation.  Keep in mind that the mother’s actions/words are coming to us through double hearsay, from two not altogether unbiased witnesses.  I would certainly like to hear from the mother directly, before passing judgment.

More probably, the husband doesn’t understand his wife’s precautions, having never been through what blacks go through every day.  (Keep in mind, most white folks, like Chief Justice Roberts in Shelby County v. Holder, think things are going swimmingly for blacks, while in fact blacks are being killed by white police in the streets.)  Then the story is picked up and spun further by a RW blogger, who turns the letter into a cause célèbre, injecting his own politics on the matter.

In the end we have a mother doing what every mother does, teaching her children how to be safe and secure in a hostile world.  Who faults a woman for being a good mother?

I agree about the double hearsay....could be fabricated or exaggerated, but speaking generally I do believe some people black people are teaching hate and distrust of the white man. If they are teaching their young kids that it's as bad as white people teaching their own kids to fear/hate blacks.
Since the George Floyds murder, which I don't think ANY sane person whatever their colour didn't find horrendous, it seems that to be white means to be racist, and that's not the case at all.
What is the case though is that many white people seem to be apologising almost for being white.....which is bloody ridiculous.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:58 pm

Maddog wrote:https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

For anyone actually interested in facts and not propaganda.

In 2016 for example, 2,870 black people were murdered. 2,570 of them were murdered by other black people.  

I would wager good money that very few of those black people were killed by other black people for being black.

Not that I think a black mother should be teaching her kids that white people hate them, or even that the all-too-many killings of black Americans by white police are always only motivated by racism, but ...

It would be stupid for a black American mother not to teach her children that some white people will treat them differently on the basis of skin color.

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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 pm

This mother is simply putting thoughts into a young impressionable mind that needn’t be there.

It’s perpetuating racism. On and on and on and on....

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Post by Maddog on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:08 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

For anyone actually interested in facts and not propaganda.

In 2016 for example, 2,870 black people were murdered. 2,570 of them were murdered by other black people.  

I would wager good money that very few of those black people were killed by other black people for being black.

Not that I think a black mother should be teaching her kids that white people hate them, or even that the all-too-many killings of black Americans by white police are always only motivated by racism, but ...

It would be stupid for a black American mother not to teach her children that some white people will treat them differently on the basis of skin color.

I have no idea WHY any of them were killed. The point is, the vast majority of people are killed by people they know, who tend to be the same race. If you're going to instruct your children on whom to fear, I would teach them that it's someone you know, of your own race.

I mean is it a consolation to lose a child over some stupid argument, as opposed to racism?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:09 pm

As far as institutional racism in America goes, the laws don't actually need to be racist -- only the people responsible for enforcing the laws.

https://www.propublica.org/article/in-some-of-ohios-most-populous-areas-black-people-were-at-least-4-times-as-likely-to-be-charged-with-stay-at-home-violations-as-whites

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:10 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls

For anyone actually interested in facts and not propaganda.

In 2016 for example, 2,870 black people were murdered. 2,570 of them were murdered by other black people.  

I would wager good money that very few of those black people were killed by other black people for being black.

Not that I think a black mother should be teaching her kids that white people hate them, or even that the all-too-many killings of black Americans by white police are always only motivated by racism, but ...

It would be stupid for a black American mother not to teach her children that some white people will treat them differently on the basis of skin color.

I have no idea WHY any of them were killed. The point is, the vast majority of people are killed by people they know, who tend to be the same race. If you're going to instruct your children on whom to fear, I would teach them that it's someone you know, of your own race.  

I mean is it a consolation to lose a child over some stupid argument, as opposed to racism?  

And we both have no idea what other lessons this mother has imparted to her child. Just because this is about racism doesn't mean she's never talked to him about getting out of heated situations that could turn violent, etc.

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Post by eddie on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:11 pm

eddie wrote:This mother is simply putting thoughts into a young impressionable mind that needn’t be there.

It’s perpetuating racism. On and on and on and on....

And on and on and on for the next seven generations....

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Post by Maddog on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:12 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I have no idea WHY any of them were killed. The point is, the vast majority of people are killed by people they know, who tend to be the same race. If you're going to instruct your children on whom to fear, I would teach them that it's someone you know, of your own race.  

I mean is it a consolation to lose a child over some stupid argument, as opposed to racism?  

And we both have no idea what other lessons this mother has imparted to her child. Just because this is about racism doesn't mean she's never talked to him about getting out of heated situations that could turn violent, etc.

Is she telling her children to fear people based on their race? Yes or no?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:14 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I have no idea WHY any of them were killed. The point is, the vast majority of people are killed by people they know, who tend to be the same race. If you're going to instruct your children on whom to fear, I would teach them that it's someone you know, of your own race.  

I mean is it a consolation to lose a child over some stupid argument, as opposed to racism?  

And we both have no idea what other lessons this mother has imparted to her child. Just because this is about racism doesn't mean she's never talked to him about getting out of heated situations that could turn violent, etc.

Is she telling her children to fear people based on their race?  Yes or no?

Yes.

Is she wrong to do that? Yes or no?

_________________
“Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated.”

– George Bernard Shaw
Ben Reilly
Ben Reilly
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The Human Cost of Wokeness Empty Re: The Human Cost of Wokeness

Post by Vintage on Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:15 pm

That kind of thinking is all over the world, there's always someone some where who wants to control or hurt you because of your colour, your religion, your ethnicity, your politics, your gender even, is different to theirs.

Vintage

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