Rule Britannia faces axe in BBC’s ‘Black Lives Matter Proms’

The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.

The traditional anthems are hugely popular with the flag-waving prommers who ordinarily cram into the Royal Albert Hall, but organisers fear a backlash because of their perceived association with colonialism and slavery.

Dalia Stasevska, 35, from Finland, who is conducting the Last Night, is among those said to be keen to modernise the evening’s repertoire and reduce the patriotic elements.

A BBC source said: "Dalia is a big supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement and thinks a ceremony without an audience is the perfect setting for change"


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rule-britannia-faces-axe-in-bbcs-black-lives-matter-proms-0fvhwmwlm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8655351/BBC-considering-dropping-Rule-Britannia-Land-Hope-Glory-Night-Proms.html


How about get stuffed

Even less likely of an audience watching on TV if this goes ahead

Maybe the audience could limbo dance to sounds of reggae or calypso in the interval....just to even things out.

The BBC is full of politically correct numpties and there needs to be a root and branch reform of it, removing all involved in the insidious practice...

Didgee wrote:The BBC is discussing whether to drop Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory from the Last Night of the Proms in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.

The traditional anthems are hugely popular with the flag-waving prommers who ordinarily cram into the Royal Albert Hall, but organisers fear a backlash because of their perceived association with colonialism and slavery.

Dalia Stasevska, 35, from Finland, who is conducting the Last Night, is among those said to be keen to modernise the evening’s repertoire and reduce the patriotic elements.

A BBC source said: "Dalia is a big supporter of the Black Lives Matter movement and thinks a ceremony without an audience is the perfect setting for change"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rule-britannia-faces-axe-in-bbcs-black-lives-matter-proms-0fvhwmwlm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8655351/BBC-considering-dropping-Rule-Britannia-Land-Hope-Glory-Night-Proms.html

How about get stuffed

Even less likely of an audience watching on TV if this goes ahead

Too bad. The egalitarian in me sees the point; so much wrong is associated with the notion of British superiority. On the other hand, the historian in me laments the loss of that theme of progress in the world due to British ideas.

Not that British ideology is opposed to egalitarianism. But, British slavery in the Americas and Caribbean seems to have progenated so much social division, and unfortunately it looms large today. Bad timing.

That twat can fuk right off!

The Promenade season, and in particular the incredible celebratory last night, is a decades old British tradition, principally in honour and memory of the great British composer Sir Henry Wood.

The season features music written and performed by artists from all over the world, regardless of race, creed or colour, and the last night - for which I have never, to my regret, been able to obtain a ticket - is attended by promenarders from all over the world and who by long tradition wave their national flags with pride as they noisily enjoy and take part in the traditional closing pieces.

Yes, these pieces are a patriotic representation of quintessential Britain and Britishness - for the bleedingly obvious reason that Sir Henry Wood was British and the rollicking Sea Shanties, Rule Britainnia, Jerusalem (a Socialst hymn written by a British Socialist, by the way) etc. are well loved examples of British music.

The Finnish woman conductor who will star at this great occasion apparently objects because she supports Black Lives Matter and is intent on making a political statement. That's her business; if she finds the job objectionable she should go and wave her baton somewhere else.

If the BBC kowtows to to her narrow-minded opinion it will be yet another act of abject politically correct cowardice.

Tommy Monk wrote:



That twat can fuk right off!

I wonder whether Birmingham University (of which my cousin is a former Pro Vice Chancellor) has a Professor of White Studies......

There are many people in this country who find various kinds of music objectionable or just downright awful for many reasons, this man should do what they all do - put up with it when you have to because someone out there likes it. No one is asking him to go to this particular event and listen to it, so I agree with Tommy.
This man appears to spend a lot of his time finding things to complain about, if her really can't abide the traditions of the UK, he can always go somewhere where he enjoys the music and traditions better.

Thank God the BLM has found some other white people to blame, lol.

Vintage wrote:There are many people in this country who find various kinds of music objectionable or just downright awful for many reasons, this man should do what they all do - put up with it when you have to because someone out there likes it. No one is asking him to go to this particular event and listen to it, so I agree with Tommy.
This man appears to spend a lot of his time finding things to complain about, if her really can't abide the traditions of the UK, he can always go somewhere where he enjoys the music and traditions better.

Absolutely correct, Vintage. I absolutely loathe Rap, but I would never condemn it because I accept that millions of mainly black people love it.

Yes, it's unfortunate.  BLM is made to do battle on so many fronts, when all it wants is for American cops to stop killing young American black men.

WTF does BLM even have to do with Britain?  Race and racial inequality on a worldwide scale is another thing...related sure, but a more immediate problem exists.

BLM is a very specific message, and it's an American problem exclusively.  I do resent world-wide co-opting of the cause and thus diluting the significance.  They are, like, abstracting the cause so that floats away in the ethereal sky and everyone goes back to sleep.

Maddog wrote:Thank God the BLM has found some other white people to blame, lol.  

Elsewhere in the social media, where we have been challenged to prove our wokeness by agreeing that "Black Lives Matter", my response that "...black lives matter in exactly the same way that ALL lives matter, no more and no less" has not gone down terribly well with the instigator!

I now, of course, anticipate the traditional hate mail and death threats.......

Original Quill wrote:Yes, it's unfortunate.  BLM is made to do battle on so many fronts, when all it wants is for American cops to stop killing young American black men.

WTF does BLM even have to do with Britain?  Race and racial inequality on a worldwide scale is another thing...related sure, but a more immediate problem exists.

BLM is a very specific message, and it's an American problem exclusively.  I do resent world-wide co-opting of the cause and thus diluting the significance.  They are, like, abstracting the cause so that floats away in the ethereal sky and everyone goes back to sleep.

A hearty "hear, hear" to that, Quill. That incidence of police brutality was criminal and appalling and could never be condoned by any right thinking person.

That it should now have been hijacked to pursue what are clearly overt political objectives over here is positively frightening. And....will achieve exactly the opposite goal IMO.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Maddog wrote:Thank God the BLM has found some other white people to blame, lol.  

Elsewhere in the social media, where we have been challenged to prove our wokeness by agreeing that "Black Lives Matter", my response that "...black lives matter in exactly the same way that ALL lives matter, no more and no less" has not gone down terribly well with the instigator!

I now, of course, anticipate the traditional hate mail and death threats.......

I prefer saying "no lives matter".

Maddog wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Elsewhere in the social media, where we have been challenged to prove our wokeness by agreeing that "Black Lives Matter", my response that "...black lives matter in exactly the same way that ALL lives matter, no more and no less" has not gone down terribly well with the instigator!

I now, of course, anticipate the traditional hate mail and death threats.......

I prefer saying "no lives matter".

Is that the 'pro-gun' mantra?

I am getting heartily sick of organisations like the BBC and companies like M&S lying down to be trodden on on by extremist busybodies who must be having a bloody good laugh at the way this is all being played out.
How I wish they would get a bloody back bone and do as Tommy albeit rather crudely suggested.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Yes, it's unfortunate.  BLM is made to do battle on so many fronts, when all it wants is for American cops to stop killing young American black men.

WTF does BLM even have to do with Britain?  Race and racial inequality on a worldwide scale is another thing...related sure, but a more immediate problem exists.

BLM is a very specific message, and it's an American problem exclusively.  I do resent world-wide co-opting of the cause and thus diluting the significance.  They are, like, abstracting the cause so that floats away in the ethereal sky and everyone goes back to sleep.

A hearty "hear, hear" to that, Quill. That incidence of police brutality was criminal and appalling and could never be condoned by any right thinking person.

That it should now have been hijacked to pursue what are clearly overt political objectives over here is positively frightening. And....will achieve exactly the opposite goal IMO.

I couldn't agree more with that Moley... very well said!

Syl wrote:I am getting heartily sick of organisations like the BBC and companies like M&S  lying down to be trodden on on by extremist busybodies who must be having a bloody good laugh at the way this is all being played out.
How I wish they would get a bloody back bone and do as Tommy albeit rather crudely suggested.

It's the whore of capitalism. Never forget that the sole goal of such organizations and companies is to make a profit. They will do anything for profit. Profit makes a mockery of any idea or theory of morality.

It's right there in the first page of their Annual Stockholder's Report.

But losing the respect from your customers will ultimately mean losing their custom. I think M&S are finding that out over the last couple of years.....so that's hardly good business.

Syl wrote:But losing the respect from your customers will ultimately mean losing their custom. I think M&S are finding that out over the last couple of years.....so that's hardly good business.

Well, you're talking about the 'wrong guess'. That is always a chance. But my point is, they are doing it for profit, not genuine morality.

It now seems that the BBC has been forced to agree that these "offensive" pieces of music can be played...but must not be sung, no doubt at the gracious consent of the actively PC Black Lives Matter supporting guest conductor.

I wonder what the South African soprano who had been engaged to be the sole voice at the Proms (the traditional audience having been socially distanced back to their sitting room tele sets) thought of the decision.  

Meanwhile my partner and I will, as we do on every Proms last night, heartily sing along to Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory while waving our little flags (though mine will be the Yorkshire standard of a white Tudor rose on a blue background).

And we will tap our feet to the traditional British sea shanties, originally arranged for the occasion by founder Sir Henry Wood, remembering that the ghastly slave trade was brought to an end by brave sailors of His Majesty's Royal Navy who triumphed over the wicked slavers...who were mostly Muslim Arabs!

Ps. As a pensioner, I have received a letter from the overtly woke  BBC informing me that my concessionary annual licence has been revoked, and that I must now pay a compulsory annual fee (for which read poll tax) of £157.50 to enable them to continue to line the pockets of executives and so-called "talent" on telephone number salaries, fees, allowances and expenses.

I think that when I do eventually get round to sending the pay form back I might well suffer an understandable lapse of geriatric memory so far as enclosing any payment is concerned.....

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:But losing the respect from your customers will ultimately mean losing their custom. I think M&S are finding that out over the last couple of years.....so that's hardly good business.

Well, you're talking about the 'wrong guess'.  That is always a chance.  But my point is, they are doing it for profit, not genuine morality.

They are making wrong choices by trying to please the minority whilst ignoring the majority.

I know this is going off on a tangent, but a few years ago they had Doreen Lawrence, mother of murdered black kid Stephen Lawrence modelling their clothes. She has campaigned long and loud for decades about her sons racist murder, which is admirable, but a fashion model she is not.
Predictably M&S clothing range for women took a nosedive, and tbh, they never recovered.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:It now seems that the BBC has been forced to agree that these "offensive" pieces of music can be played...but must not be sung, no doubt at the gracious consent of the actively PC Black Lives Matter supporting guest conductor.

I wonder what the South African soprano who had been engaged to be the sole voice at the Proms (the traditional audience having been socially distanced back to their sitting room tele sets) thought of the decision.  

Meanwhile my partner and I will, as we do on every Proms last night, heartily sing along to Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory while waving our little flags (though mine will be the Yorkshire standard of a white Tudor rose on a blue background).

And we will tap our feet to the traditional British sea shanties, originally arranged for the occasion by founder Sir Henry Wood, remembering that the ghastly slave trade was brought to an end by brave sailors of His Majesty's Royal Navy who triumphed over the wicked slavers...who were mostly Muslim Arabs!

Ps. As a pensioner, I have received a letter from the overtly woke  BBC informing me that my concessionary annual licence has been revoked, and that I must now pay a compulsory annual fee (for which read poll tax) of £157.50 to enable them to continue to line the pockets of executives and so-called "talent" on telephone number salaries, fees, allowances and expenses.

I think that when I do eventually get round to sending the pay form back I might well suffer an understandable lapse of geriatric memory so far as enclosing any payment is concerned.....

Had there been an audience I'm sure they would have heartily sang along to the traditional rousing  anthems that are part of the Last Night  of the Proms.
Maybe people countrywide should fling open their front doors when it's broadcast and instead of clapping for the NHS, which was great,  sing at the top of their voices to Land of Hope and glory and Rule Britannia.

Just a thought Fred. x

Syl wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:It now seems that the BBC has been forced to agree that these "offensive" pieces of music can be played...but must not be sung, no doubt at the gracious consent of the actively PC Black Lives Matter supporting guest conductor.

I wonder what the South African soprano who had been engaged to be the sole voice at the Proms (the traditional audience having been socially distanced back to their sitting room tele sets) thought of the decision.  

Meanwhile my partner and I will, as we do on every Proms last night, heartily sing along to Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory while waving our little flags (though mine will be the Yorkshire standard of a white Tudor rose on a blue background).

And we will tap our feet to the traditional British sea shanties, originally arranged for the occasion by founder Sir Henry Wood, remembering that the ghastly slave trade was brought to an end by brave sailors of His Majesty's Royal Navy who triumphed over the wicked slavers...who were mostly Muslim Arabs!

Ps. As a pensioner, I have received a letter from the overtly woke  BBC informing me that my concessionary annual licence has been revoked, and that I must now pay a compulsory annual fee (for which read poll tax) of £157.50 to enable them to continue to line the pockets of executives and so-called "talent" on telephone number salaries, fees, allowances and expenses.

I think that when I do eventually get round to sending the pay form back I might well suffer an understandable lapse of geriatric memory so far as enclosing any payment is concerned.....

Had there been an audience I'm sure they would have heartily sang along to the traditional rousing  anthems that are part of the Last Night  of the Proms.
Maybe people countrywide should fling open their front doors when it's broadcast and instead of clapping for the NHS, which was great,  sing at the top of their voices to Land of Hope and glory and Rule Britannia.

Just a thought Fred. x

I'd be happy to...except I live out in the sticks and my audience would be only sheep behind the house and deer, foxes and badgers in the woods in front of it!

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Well, you're talking about the 'wrong guess'. That is always a chance. But my point is, they are doing it for profit, not genuine morality.

They are making wrong choices by trying to please the minority whilst ignoring the majority.

I disagree. Minority and majority mean different things to different cultures. Right now, the term 'minority' ironically could mean blacks even in Central Africa. It really means the 'disenfranchised', or something like 'the poor' in Europe's past social revolution. It has no connection to a numerical count.

Minority/majority is additionally complicated by a point-in-time connotation...as evidenced by the Nixon/Agnew use of the term "Silent Majority' to mean a past political sentiment, in reality now long gone. Tom uses the term 'real world' in the same way...it’s a reference some set of values that was once was firmly entrenched, but has now eroded away (only he doesn’t realize it).

The capitalist organizations and businesses we are talking about are smarter, and they are aware that the world's values are in continual flux. They are trying to appeal to buyers by seeming to adopt the current trend. As you have so ably shown, Syl, there's no percentage in appealing to a numerical minority. But, you are setting up the straw man in order to say it is a miscalculation (modus ponens=if/then), and in doing so, you miss a subtler point: it's much deeper than that.

I'm not trying to apologize for those businesses and organizations like the BBC and M&S. I am saying they are much more insidious than your modus ponens argument. They realize that the world is in motion, and you can only snag the occasional ride on a passing trend. By associating with BLM they are trying to appear to be 'in' with the kids, so to speak. But it's only a ride.

Passing trends are temporary, and commercial enterprises by hitching a ride are saying that BLM is temporary. In doing so, they are eroding the sentiment even more. The phrase Oh, that's so last year, is recognition that something is only a passing trend. They are implicitly saying BLM will soon be sooo last year, and I'm saying it’s more than a passing trend. Life is a fundamental right. I object to the BBC or M&S riding along because by dumbing down the message, they contribute to its passing.