I keep warning Eilzel about the blatant erasure of homosexuality - Is Lesbian Identity Obsolete?

Is lesbian identity obsolete? We pose this provocation in order to think through what has changed and not changed about lesbian identities and their articulations in the face of recent developments—from the rise of transphobia in the name of feminism to increased income inequality and gentrification and the accompanying loss of community spaces. If lesbianism is (arguably) unique as a constellation of erotic, political, and social energies, how do changes in the latter categories challenge, destabilize, morph, reshape, and/or solidify lesbian identities and their meanings? We seek a wide-ranging set of contributions from multiple disciplines and are hoping to represent a diversity of perspectives. The editors are committed to transgender inclusion and centering the voices of nonwhite and non-U.S. thinkers. We also welcome considerations of this question from multiple historical perspectives.



https://think.taylorandfrancis.com/special_issues/is-lesbian-identity-obsolete/



Its now too late, these internalised homophobic views have taken hold

Its clear to me that the gender ideology brigade is predicated on internalised homophobia

To question Lesbians identity, when they have np control over their sexual orientation. Is blatant homophobia

Sexual orientation is not a preference people can switch on and off

Is this thread just between you and Les?

I don't know why you mention me by name lol

I think this just isn't a major issue for the average gay person out there, less still for anyone else.
Yes, there is a radical, and imo brainless extremist wing of SJWs who are twisting language beyond recognition and are seeking to make things mean something they don't: but it doesn't affect most people in their day to day lives. And it isn't making inroads in meaningful politics as far as I can tell.

Ultimately, people will fall in love with whoever they fall in love with and if that love is reciprocated they'll form a relationship. And no one will care what gender or identity they attach to themselves. They'll just let it be.

That is the important end goal of fights for equality. Everything else is just noise and people placing WAY to much relevance on 'what homosexuality it' and how attraction to trans people fits in to that.

The you are out of touch with reality

Both Stonewall and Mermaids are constantly lobbing the Government. To change sex, with gender in the equality act.

How do you think that wiil impact on people the laws governing sexual orientation?

How will will tackle sexism

How will we collate information on crimes sex related?

The list is endless, but this is not just some extreme SJW;s

This is major organisations

This crap is being promoted all the time on Youtube

Here the late Magdalen Berns dismantles this idiocy

Didgee wrote:The you are out of touch with reality

Both Stonewall and Mermaids are constantly lobbing the Government. To change sex, with gender in the equality act.

How do you think that wiil impact on people the laws governing sexual orientation?

How will will tackle sexism

How will we collate information on crimes sex related?

The list is endless, but this is not just some extreme SJW;s

This is major organisations

This crap is being promoted all the time on Youtube

Here the late Magdalen Berns dismantles this idiocy

Regardless of the hysterics (not from you, but from many of these extreme SJW types), laws on sexual orientation grounds will stand. Marriage to people of the same gender/sex will still be allowed. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone on grounds of who they are dating/married to. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone based on unalterable facts of who they are. Violent and sexual crimes will still be punished harshly.

Eilzel wrote:

Didgee wrote:The you are out of touch with reality

Both Stonewall and Mermaids are constantly lobbing the Government. To change sex, with gender in the equality act.

How do you think that wiil impact on people the laws governing sexual orientation?

How will will tackle sexism

How will we collate information on crimes sex related?

The list is endless, but this is not just some extreme SJW;s

This is major organisations

This crap is being promoted all the time on Youtube

Here the late Magdalen Berns dismantles this idiocy

Regardless of the hysterics (not from you, but from many of these extreme SJW types), laws on sexual orientation grounds will stand. Marriage to people of the same gender/sex will still be allowed. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone on grounds of who they are dating/married to. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone based on unalterable facts of who they are. Violent and sexual crimes will still be punished harshly.

How will they stand (if they get their way) without sex being a protected category anymore?

You fail to see the impact of that

Even now for example the Police do not record the sex anymore of people but go by their gender identity. Leading to incorrect data on crimes

So there is now stats of women (who are of course trans woman) who rape, which is impossible under uk law

It certainly impacts and is already impacting. Due to the influence stonewall has over many companies and institutions

Didgee wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Didgee wrote:The you are out of touch with reality

Both Stonewall and Mermaids are constantly lobbing the Government. To change sex, with gender in the equality act.

How do you think that wiil impact on people the laws governing sexual orientation?

How will will tackle sexism

How will we collate information on crimes sex related?

The list is endless, but this is not just some extreme SJW;s

This is major organisations

This crap is being promoted all the time on Youtube

Here the late Magdalen Berns dismantles this idiocy

Regardless of the hysterics (not from you, but from many of these extreme SJW types), laws on sexual orientation grounds will stand. Marriage to people of the same gender/sex will still be allowed. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone on grounds of who they are dating/married to. You won't be able to discriminate against anyone based on unalterable facts of who they are. Violent and sexual crimes will still be punished harshly.

How will they stand (if they get their way) without sex being a protected category anymore?

You fail to see the impact of that

Even now for example the Police do not record the sex anymore of people but go by their gender identity. Leading to incorrect data on crimes

So there is now stats of women (who are of course trans woman) who rape, which is impossible under uk law

It certainly impacts and is already impacting. Due to the influence stonewall has over many companies and institutions

So gender becomes a protected category? Fine. If they plan on removing mention of both then I agree that would be a problem. But if gender is then so be it. Are we seeing massive numbers of male rapists 'claiming' female identity when arrested? If genuine trans women are listed with biological women then we are still going to be talking a tiny, tiny fraction of offenders.

Again, to repeat, if gender and sex are both being removed from records, that would be a problem imo.

However, that is an issue aside from lesbianism, which I don't see as being 'erased' by this.

Eilzel wrote:

Didgee wrote:

How will they stand (if they get their way) without sex being a protected category anymore?

You fail to see the impact of that

Even now for example the Police do not record the sex anymore of people but go by their gender identity. Leading to incorrect data on crimes

So there is now stats of women (who are of course trans woman) who rape, which is impossible under uk law

It certainly impacts and is already impacting. Due to the influence stonewall has over many companies and institutions

So gender becomes a protected category? Fine. If they plan on removing mention of both then I agree that would be a problem. But if gender is then so be it. Are we seeing massive numbers of male rapists 'claiming' female identity when arrested? If genuine trans women are listed with biological women then we are still going to be talking a tiny, tiny fraction of offenders.

Again, to repeat, if gender and sex are both being removed from records, that would be a problem imo.

However, that is an issue aside from lesbianism, which I don't see as being 'erased' by this.

Many jailed rapists are changing their identities to gain access to female prisons

Gender is replacing sex in places like Police records

If gender replaces sex, then many laws become immediately meaningless over night

Homosexuality would include heterosexual males that identify as women

Which is just bonks

Trans women and men that have had a medical transition, but do not have bottom surgery. Should be added as a sub category of sex and attraction round this as a sub category of sexual orientation. Being as they have mixed characteristics

To explain my point Eizel

Currently sexual orientation is protected and rightly so based on the meaning and category of sex

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own sex – when you’re gay or lesbian
people of the opposite sex – when you’re heterosexual
people of both sexes – when you’re bisexual.

This is how it would look and become meaningless if replaced with gender

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own gender – when you’re gay or lesbian and heterosexual
people of the opposite gender– when you’re heterosexual, gay or lesbian
people of of over a hundred genders – when you’re bisexual.

On top of that where do non-binary or agender people fit here?

Being as there is over a hundred genders. This renders the above protection for sexual orientation meaningless, if sex is replaced with gender

Didgee wrote:To explain my point Eizel

Currently sexual orientation is protected and rightly so based on the meaning and category of sex

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own sex – when you’re gay or lesbian
people of the opposite sex – when you’re heterosexual
people of both sexes – when you’re bisexual.

This is how it would look and become meaningless if replaced with gender

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own gender – when you’re gay or lesbian and heterosexual
people of the opposite gender– when you’re heterosexual, gay or lesbian
people of of over a hundred genders – when you’re bisexual.

On top of that where do non-binary or agender people fit here?

Being as there is over a hundred genders. This renders the above protection for sexual orientation meaningless, if sex is replaced with gender

Discrimination usually can only come into play when someone is clearly gay though. Ie. a gay couple ask for a wedding cake or try to book a room at a B&B. Regardless of what it is called, if either business tries to deny business because their customers are 2 men or 2 women in a relationship, then the discrimination is clear cut.

Eilzel wrote:

Didgee wrote:To explain my point Eizel

Currently sexual orientation is protected and rightly so based on the meaning and category of sex

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own sex – when you’re gay or lesbian
people of the opposite sex – when you’re heterosexual
people of both sexes – when you’re bisexual.

This is how it would look and become meaningless if replaced with gender

Sexual orientation is when you’re sexually attracted to:

people of you’re own gender – when you’re gay or lesbian and heterosexual
people of the opposite gender– when you’re heterosexual, gay or lesbian
people of of over a hundred genders – when you’re bisexual.

On top of that where do non-binary or agender people fit here?

Being as there is over a hundred genders. This renders the above protection for sexual orientation meaningless, if sex is replaced with gender

Discrimination usually can only come into play when someone is clearly gay though. Ie. a gay couple ask for a wedding cake or try to book a room at a B&B. Regardless of what it is called, if either business tries to deny business because their customers are 2 men or 2 women in a relationship, then the discrimination is clear cut.

Its not clear cut as I have just shown

Sexual orientation is fundamentally based on the protected category of sex

Now a gay couple through such gender terminology would be a trans women and female

Sex is the fundamental category that provides not only protection through sexual orientation but through males and females

If they want to introduce gender. This would have to alongside sex, but never superseding this

As seen many organisations have already dropped sex and replaced with gender

This is going to create many court cases, all due to ideology promoted by the likes of stonewall