What it's like to be a Black officer policing Portland protests | Raw interview

CBS wrote:A Buffalo police officer says she stopped a fellow cop's chokehold on a black suspect. She was fired.

Former Buffalo police officer Cariol Horne was fired in 2008 after she says she stopped a white officer's chokehold on a black suspect in handcuffs. Now, the Buffalo city council is asking the New York attorney general to investigate Horne's firing.

Horne, a nearly 20-year veteran of the Buffalo Police Department, told CBS News correspondent Jericka Duncan the image of George Floyd dying at the hands of police in Minneapolis is triggering.

"Looking at the video, it was very upsetting, and I felt that if one of those officers has stepped in that he would be alive today," she said.

Derek Chauvin, the officer who pressed his knee into Floyd's neck while he was on the ground and handcuffed, was fired and later charged with second-degree murder. Three other officers at the scene were charged with aiding and abetting a murder.

In 2006, then-officer Horne made headlines after intervening when she says fellow officer Greg Kwiatkowski was choking a black suspect, Neal Mack.

"Neal Mack looked like he was about to die," Horne said. "So had I not stepped in, he possibly could have. He was handcuffed and being choked."

The Buffalo Police Department brought disciplinary charges against Horne and fired her in 2008, a few months before she was eligible to receive a full pension. Kwiatkowski sued Horne and her lawyer for defamation.

In 2011, a judge found that eight statements Horne's lawyer made were defamatory and false, including the claim that Horne "saved the life of a suspect who was already in handcuffs and was being choked out by officer Greg Kwiatkowski."

Mack, the suspect at the center of the nearly 14-year-old case, maintains to this day that Horne saved his life.

"He was choking me. I was handcuffed. Cariol Horne said, 'You killing him, Greg,' and she reached over and tried to grab his hand around my neck," Mack said.

In 2012, in a lawsuit brought by Mack, a jury found no wrongdoing by the Buffalo police officers involved in his arrest.

As for Kwiatkowski, he was sentenced to four months in federal prison in 2018 for using "unlawful and unreasonable force" against four black teenagers.

"Unlawful, unnecessary force, the same thing that I said he did," Horne said.

Horne said she has turned her pain into activism. When she saw the video of Buffalo police pushing a 75-year-old protestor to the ground, she said she was disgusted.

"So now if they can push the 75-year-old white man when it's still daylight out, just think of what they do to our young black kids at nighttime," she said.

Horne said she's at peace because she stands by what she did. Still, she broke down when asked how this has impacted her children.

"It's important for me to be truthful because this has been a lot of years, so when you talk about where did the raw emotion come from, it's because ... I have fought all of these years and tried to keep it together for my children," she said.

Horne is now fighting for her full pension and pushing to pass Cariole's Law, which she said would protect police who intervene from being retaliated against.

The Buffalo Police Department told CBS News that in 2006, Horne requested that her case be reviewed by an independent arbitrator. The arbitrator recommended termination after lengthy hearings and the police commissioner at the time followed that recommendation.

Former Buffalo police lieutenant Kwiatkowski could not be reached, and his former lawyers did not respond to requests for comment.

2020 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cariol-horne-buffalo-police-chokehold/

Didgee wrote:So no points going to be made on what he said around the protests and he being African American. Being attacked by middle class white neo-marxists. Thinking they speak for black people?

Tommy Monk wrote:


About a minute in... He says he graduated from university in 2008, and then worked for Nike for about 10 years before becoming a police officer... Then he goes on to say he has been on patrol as a cop for the last 10 years...?


WTF...!?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:So no points going to be made on what he said around the protests and he being African American. Being attacked by middle class white neo-marxists. Thinking they speak for black people?

It's pablum.  It's what a well-educated and articulate black man does in order to get ahead in the white world.  You see your future, and later develop arguments.

I don't see one answer for why the black man has to die at a rate of 3.5 to 1, the police-caused deaths of white men.  The discussion begins there, not the aftermath.

It's called 'going the way the wind blows'.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


About a minute in... He says he graduated from university in 2008, and then worked for Nike for about 10 years before becoming a police officer... Then he goes on to say he has been on patrol as a cop for the last 10 years...?


WTF...!?

phil wrote:A white world?

When white people are a minority globally?

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:A white world?

When white people are a minority globally?

But whites make of themselves the elite of the world.  It's wealth and power that counts, not numbers.  Conservatives don't even want more equals--ie, millionaires--they want more subservient's.

phil wrote:You see this is your problem quill. You fail to see humans as humans.

You seek to divide them by the colour of their skin and racially divide them

So lets play your geography game

What happens to that ratio when we place this based on the ratio of crimes city specific?

Should I use your ratio of crimes committed by African Americans?

With 50% of murders?

Is that how you wish to work this?

Explain to me if the US is a systematic racist country. Why we do not see a similar ratio for Asians killed by cops?

Or does it have to do with around a actual crime and a number of people involved in crime?

I mean if African Americans represent 13% of the population, why are they over represented in just about every crime category?

Now I would put that down to a number of factors and none of them have to do with race

So do you think it has to do with race?

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But whites make of themselves the elite of the world.  It's wealth and power that counts, not numbers.  Conservatives don't even want more equals--ie, millionaires--they want more subservient's.

How do whites makes themselves the elites of the world, when they do not control the vast majority of nations? Or even control other white majority countries?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

How do whites makes themselves the elites of the world, when they do not control the vast majority of nations? Or even control other white majority countries?

You still don't get it.  It's not quantity, it's quality.  With the US, the UK, maybe Germany and a few others, I rule the world.  How did the US do it?  How did the UK do it?  By having resources.  They became wealthy, and with their wealth they build power.

It's not numbers, it's strategy.  With Jim Crow laws, separate but equal, and segregation, I can make myself wealthy and powerful, and still hold back the black man from ever getting ahead.

That's why Barack Obama scared the crap outta the white man.  He caught on to their strategy.

phil wrote:But these countries do not rules the world in any sense or form

If they did, then any ruling at the UN would go their way every time

The reality is they do not

Didgee wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

You do realise people can work whilst in college Tommy?

phil wrote:Like I say, you think in racial lens thinking like a racist

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:You see this is your problem quill. You fail to see humans as humans.

You seek to divide them by the colour of their skin and racially divide them

So lets play your geography game

What happens to that ratio when we place this based on the ratio of crimes city specific?

Should I use your ratio of crimes committed by African Americans?

With 50% of murders?

Is that how you wish to work this?

Explain to me if the US is a systematic racist country. Why we do not see a similar ratio for Asians killed by cops?

Or does it have to do with around a actual crime and a number of people involved in crime?

I mean if African Americans represent 13% of the population, why are they over represented in just about every crime category?

Now I would put that down to a number of factors and none of them have to do with race

So do you think it has to do with race?

Yes, good question, who is responsible for that?  Slavery didn't die on January 1, 1863, when the emancipation proclamation went into effect.  Through a series of Jim Crow laws, it went from a period of peonage, to racial purity (social separation of the races), to separate but equal, to segregation, to post-Brown v. Bd. of Educ., to the southern strategy, to institutional isolation and lingering effects of past discrimination, to the present counter-resentment and allegations of reverse-racism.

Now, today, blacks have the shit-bottom of jobs, housing, education, and opportunity most of all.  Everyday, from ages 8 to 10 on, they are treated the same way as George Floyd was, which teaches that you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.  There is very little respect for the lines of law, because the police disrespect the lines of law and order every day.  Blacks are killed by police, proportionate to whites, 3.5 times as much.  People learn by the way they are treated.  If you go about treating a people by the way George Floyd was treated, it cheapens everyone's respect for law and order.

Racism is not an existential issue.  It's an historical issue.  It has existed, without stop, up until the present day.  Get to treating blacks with equally, then talk right and wrong.

phil wrote:Explain to me if the US is a systematic racist country. Why we do not see a similar ratio for Asians killed by cops?

Original Quill wrote:

phil wrote:Explain to me if the US is a systematic racist country. Why we do not see a similar ratio for Asians killed by cops?

Because Asians are not the race targeted by whites.  Although Asians have been targeted at times, they have been able to climb out of it.  Same with Italians and Irish in their immigrant days.

Blacks are the only race that have been discriminated against at the start, and continue to be discriminated against even today.  Perhaps we should take another look at the George Floyd murder clip.

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Because Asians are not the race targeted by whites.  Although Asians have been targeted at times, they have been able to climb out of it.  Same with Italians and Irish in their immigrant days.

Blacks are the only race that have been discriminated against at the start, and continue to be discriminated against even today.  Perhaps we should take another look at the George Floyd murder clip.

So its a specific form of racism by whites in the US, even though Asians have been systematically suffer racism in the US?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

So its a specific form of racism by whites in the US, even though Asians have been systematically suffer racism in the US?

What the fuck are you talking about?

Asians have faced discrimination in the west, particularly when they first came.  But, like the Irish and Italians, it dissipated.  Discrimination against blacks seems never to abate, however.  Sociologists are baffled.  What is preventing the evolution that we've seen in others, is the southern inability to accept the transition of the black race into the melting pot.

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Asians have faced discrimination in the west, particularly when they first came.  But, like the Irish and Italians, it dissipated.  Discrimination against blacks seems never to abate, however.  Sociologists are baffled.  What is preventing the evolution that we've seen in others, is the southern inability to accept the transition of the black race into the melting pot.

So there was no camps during ww2 then?

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Asians have faced discrimination in the west, particularly when they first came.  But, like the Irish and Italians, it dissipated.  Discrimination against blacks seems never to abate, however.  Sociologists are baffled.  What is preventing the evolution that we've seen in others, is the southern inability to accept the transition of the black race into the melting pot.

So there was no camps during ww2 then?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

So there was no camps during ww2 then?

Those were Japanese.  It was political, not sociological.  We were at war with Japan, and no one thought the Japanese were going to stop at Pearl Harbor in 1941-42.

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Those were Japanese.  It was political, not sociological.  We were at war with Japan, and no one thought the Japanese were going to stop at Pearl Harbor in 1941-42.

Not jut ethnically Japanese

Who else?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

Not jut ethnically Japanese

Who else?

Meh...that's war.  We also had German POW camps as well.  Forts McPherson and Oglethorpe in Georgia and Fort Douglas in Utah.

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Meh...that's war.  We also had German POW camps as well.  Forts McPherson and Oglethorpe in Georgia and Fort Douglas in Utah.

Do you know the answer Quill?

Who else?

The US was not at war with them

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

Do you know the answer Quill?

Who else?

The US was not at war with them

The US went to war with Japan on December 8, 1941, and Germany declared war on the US on December 11th.

Didgee wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The US went to war with Japan on December 8, 1941, and Germany declared war on the US on December 11th.

Who else was placed in interment camps Quill?

Original Quill wrote:

Didgee wrote:

Who else was placed in interment camps Quill?

I only know of Italians, Germans and Japanese.  Anyone else?