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Communist /religious States

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Post by Vintage on Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:21 pm

I keep wondering if a communist regime is so good for everyone why are there still elite people in these countries and why are the regimes so harsh about people leaving if they don't agree with the way of life, why do some feel the need to build walls, actual and notional around the country. Why do they threaten other countries with consequences as China is doing now, who question their actions in the treatment of their inhabitants. If it is so good surely few would complain, protest or actually risk all to leave as so many do. The same can be said for theocracies as well. If so many don't seem to like the way things are run why aren't changes made, why can a few keep all the power for so long. Iran is supposed to have had young people in the majority for many years and these young people don't appear to like the way things are yet the vote always goes the way of the current regime - or does it? I know there was a war but how did Afghanistan fall back into a medieval theocracy apparently so easily, when their cities, large towns and universities were becoming so modern in the 60's. Where do all the downright liberals and the moderates go? How does it all take hold and flourish.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:28 pm

Good questions, Vintage -- just want to point out that I moved this from UK News to World Politics, which seems like a better fit.

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Post by Original Quill on Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:50 pm

There has not been a true Communist regime since the Paris Commune, of 1871.  The Paris Commune ruled Paris from 18 March to 28 May 1871, hardly enough time to organize itself.

The Soviet Union was a Bolshevik totalitarian regime, and the People's Republic of China was an Agrarian totalitarian regime.  Both of the underlying nations were economically premature for a Communist system, as Marx himself said at the time, so they prolonged the Vanguard (transition) segment infinitely, resulting in a totalitarian form of government throughout their existence.

We'll never know what a Communist form of government is like until we experience it.

I agree on theocracies.  That is why we in the US have a First Amendment.  I might remind you that Britain is technically a theocracy, with a state religion.

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Post by Eilzel on Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:35 am

Vintage wrote:I keep wondering if a communist regime is so good for everyone why are there still elite people in these countries and why are the regimes so harsh about people leaving if they don't agree with the way of life, why do some feel the need to build walls, actual and notional around the country. Why do they threaten other countries with consequences as China is doing now, who question their actions in the treatment of their inhabitants. If it is so good surely few would complain, protest or actually risk all to leave as so many do. The same can be said for theocracies as well. If so many don't seem to like the way things are run why aren't changes made, why can a few keep all the power for so long. Iran is supposed to have had young people in the majority for many years and these young people don't appear to like the way things are yet the vote always goes the way of the current regime - or does it? I know there was a war but how did Afghanistan fall back into a medieval theocracy apparently so easily, when their cities, large towns and universities were becoming so modern in the 60's. Where do all the downright liberals and the moderates go? How does it all take hold and flourish.

Yeah, kind of echoing Quill, but none of the so-called communist states we have had in the last 100 years has ever been truly communist. In Marx's manifesto it is clear he saw communism as result in no government at all (we'd 'transcend' it, I guess. It sounds great on paper but totally unrealistic in reality).

North Korea, Cuba, China, the USSR etc all just saw power moved from one group of brutal elites to another - the only difference is the new one's slapped 'People's' and 'Democratic' and 'Socialist' in their names and said they were doing it for the people. They lied and/or became horribly corrupt.

As to theocracies. Well in fairness, there will always be a vast number in every country that are easily swayed by absolute bullshit and vote even against their own interests as a result (the UK and USA being staggering good examples in the last 4 years). Problem is in places like Egypt in 2011, that resulted in a switch from military dictatorship to an Islamist one. Because the masses were convinced their religious authorities must know better. Very sad.

Liberals and moderates have a tough fight. The message is never the easy black and white nonsense that nationalists and religious nuts go in for.

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