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Ghislaine Maxwell arrested in America.

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Post by Syl on Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

It was only a matter of time, wonder if there will be any more high profile arrests re the Epstein goings on??





"Jeffrey Epstein‘s associate Ghislaine Maxwell has been charged by the FBI on multiple charges of sex exploitation and abuse of minor girls.

The British socialite and heiress was a confidante to the disgraced financier.

She later faced accusations of her own involvement in his sex crimes.

Maxwell, who reportedly has kept a low-profile since 2016 to avoid private investigators, was arrested in New Hampshire on Epstein-related charges and is expected to appear in federal court later today, News 4 New York first reported.

At one point Maxwell, the daughter of media baron Robert Maxwell, was Epstein’s girlfriend and then became a close friend to the man.

But she also allegedly helped Epstein groom and procure young girls to the wealthy elite.

Her arrest comes just a few days before the anniversary of Epstein’s arrest last year on sex-trafficking charges, which alleged he exploited and transferred underage girls between New York and Florida. Epstein, 66, later killed himself in federal prison, according to the medical examiner."

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ghislaine-maxwell-arrest-jeffrey-epstein-associate-charged-by-fbi/ar-BB16fANi?ocid=msedgntp

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Post by Syl on Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:44 am

So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:14 pm

Syl wrote:So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

Why encourage him?

It's like giving an enema to someone with diareaha.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:31 pm

Syl wrote:So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

I am glad you asked.  I've been waiting to get this off my chest.

No, Trump won't go to prison because Democrats are snowflakes.  They are hesitant to go for the jugular.

It breaks down like this: Republicans are self-serving; Democrats are humanitarian.  While Democrats are actually devoted to fixing the leaks in society, Republicans are like pigs at the trough: they have no care or concern for the common weal, and all is about bettering their own status or pocketbooks.  That's why we see Democrats working on programs such as healthcare or public works, while Republicans are seeking tax cuts or huge government contracts for themselves or their cronies.

Here's how this works: the competitive soul is also the punitive soul.  Selfishness breeds competitiveness, which breeds enmity, which leads to hostility.  The selfish person senses that punishment is a means to enlarge his share of the trough.  Lock her up, is really: if she’s out of the way, I am unhindered and there is more for me.  There’s no better example than Trump: a competitive, selfish businessman, who turns every transaction into an occasion for abuse, if not destruction.

The civic-minded person is not normally a punitive personality.  For Democrats, to punish people is actually contrary to their mission of care and concern for humanity.  In order for Trump to be removed, Democrats will have to supplant him.  When they do, just as Obama refused to punish Cheney, they will see punishment of Trump as contrary to their mission.
Obama called it “looking forward, not backward”. I call it, failure to complete the mission.

This is why I am probably not long for the Democratic Party.  I am a humanist, but I am also a realist.  You don’t win, and then back down from your winning ways.  A physician wins, and then eliminates the disease.  In this case the disease is selfishness, and you want to eliminate self-dealing in politics for posterity.  You win, not for yourself, but so that you can make progress on the mission of fixing leaks.

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Post by Maddog on Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:37 pm

Syl wrote:So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

I warned you. Wink

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:53 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

I warned you.  Wink

I know it is a little deep for you. But southerners are not meant for cerebral work. Evil or Very Mad

Cheers...beer at six. cheers

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Syl on Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:58 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:So Quill, do you reckon Trump is in line to spend the rest of his life behind bars?

I am glad you asked.  I've been waiting to get this off my chest.

No, Trump won't go to prison because Democrats are snowflakes.  They are hesitant to go for the jugular.

It breaks down like this: Republicans are self-serving; Democrats are humanitarian.  While Democrats are actually devoted to fixing the leaks in society, Republicans are like pigs at the trough: they have no care or concern for the common weal, and all is about bettering their own status or pocketbooks.  That's why we see Democrats working on programs such as healthcare or public works, while Republicans are seeking tax cuts or huge government contracts for themselves or their cronies.

Here's how this works: the competitive soul is also the punitive soul.  Selfishness breeds competitiveness, which breeds enmity, which leads to hostility.  The selfish person senses that punishment is a means to enlarge his share of the trough.  Lock her up, is really: if she’s out of the way, I am unhindered and there is more for me.  There’s no better example than Trump: a competitive, selfish businessman, who turns every transaction into an occasion for abuse, if not destruction.

The civic-minded person is not normally a punitive personality.  For Democrats, to punish people is actually contrary to their mission of care and concern for humanity.  In order for Trump to be removed, Democrats will have to supplant him.  When they do, just as Obama refused to punish Cheney, they will see punishment of Trump as contrary to their mission.
Obama called it “looking forward, not backward”.  I call it, failure to complete the mission.

This is why I am probably not long for the Democratic Party.  I am a humanist, but I am also a realist.  You don’t win, and then back down from your winning ways.  A physician wins, and then eliminates the disease.  In this case the disease is selfishness, and you want to eliminate self-dealing in politics for posterity.  You win, not for yourself, but so that you can make progress on the mission of fixing leaks.

Well yes, but you also have a justice system, and surely if someone is charged (criminally not civilly) with the rape of a child a criminal trial would override the political views of whoever was appointed judge and jury.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:10 pm

Syl wrote:Well yes, but you also have a justice system, and surely if someone is charged (criminally not civilly) with the rape of a child a criminal trial would override the political views of whoever was appointed judge and jury.

There is something called prosecutorial discretion. Prosecutorial discretion is the authority of an agency or officer to decide what charges to bring and how to pursue each case. A prosecutor or law-enforcement officer who declines to pursue a case against a person has favorably exercised prosecutorial discretion. Courts permit prosecutors to undercharge, or not charge a suspect at all if they wish.

That is what Democrats tend to do when it comes to political matters. It was what Obama did with former Vice-President Cheney.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Syl on Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:53 am

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Well yes, but you also have a justice system, and surely if someone is charged (criminally not civilly) with the rape of a child a criminal trial would override the political views of whoever was appointed judge and jury.

There is something called prosecutorial discretion.  Prosecutorial discretion is the authority of an agency or officer to decide what charges to bring and how to pursue each case. A prosecutor or law-enforcement officer who declines to pursue a case against a person has favorably exercised prosecutorial discretion.  Courts permit prosecutors to undercharge, or not charge a suspect at all if they wish.

That is what Democrats tend to do when it comes to political matters.  It was what Obama did with former Vice-President Cheney.
Sounds like our CPS here.
If there is enough evidence to prosecute and  the evidence is reliable and can be used in court,  as long as the CPS find  it's in the public interest to prosecute, it can go ahead.

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Post by Syl on Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:38 pm

The girl once pictured with Prince Andrew who opened that particular Pandora's box is happy.

"Virginia Roberts Giuffre cried tears of joy following the arrest of Ghislaine Maxwell after she accused the British socialite and late US billionaire Jeffrey Epstein of forcing her to have sex with Prince Andrew when she was a teenager.
Ms Roberts has sensationally claimed Maxwell arranged for her to have sex with Britain's Prince Andrew at her London townhouse and shared a photograph of her, Andrew and Maxwell she said was taken at the time, in 2000.
Ms Roberts said on Saturday: 'When I got the call I was elated, crying tears of joy, laughing … finally we got her'."



Ghislaine Maxwell arrested in America. - Page 2 BB16jrHa






https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/finally-we-got-her-jeffrey-epsteins-australian-victim-virginia-roberts-cries-tears-of-joy-at-ghislaine-maxwells-arrest/ar-BB16jAZG

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Post by Maddog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Syl wrote:The girl once pictured with Prince Andrew who opened that particular Pandora's box is happy.

"Virginia Roberts Giuffre cried tears of joy following the arrest of Ghislaine Maxwell after she accused the British socialite and late US billionaire Jeffrey Epstein of forcing her to have sex with Prince Andrew when she was a teenager.
Ms Roberts has sensationally claimed Maxwell arranged for her to have sex with Britain's Prince Andrew at her London townhouse and shared a photograph of her, Andrew and Maxwell she said was taken at the time, in 2000.
Ms Roberts said on Saturday: 'When I got the call I was elated, crying tears of joy, laughing … finally we got her'."



Ghislaine Maxwell arrested in America. - Page 2 BB16jrHa






https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/finally-we-got-her-jeffrey-epsteins-australian-victim-virginia-roberts-cries-tears-of-joy-at-ghislaine-maxwells-arrest/ar-BB16jAZG

This sets up an interesting situation. What sorta protocol is there for a royal being forced to testify in a foreign country?

It's not like we will send US Marshals to the UK and drag him to NY in handcuffs.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:04 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

There is something called prosecutorial discretion.  Prosecutorial discretion is the authority of an agency or officer to decide what charges to bring and how to pursue each case. A prosecutor or law-enforcement officer who declines to pursue a case against a person has favorably exercised prosecutorial discretion.  Courts permit prosecutors to undercharge, or not charge a suspect at all if they wish.

That is what Democrats tend to do when it comes to political matters.  It was what Obama did with former Vice-President Cheney.
Sounds like our CPS here.
If there is enough evidence to prosecute and  the evidence is reliable and can be used in court,  as long as the CPS find  it's in the public interest to prosecute, it can go ahead.

"Can go ahead" is another question. Here, the question is must prosecutors go ahead? The answer is NO. Under prosecutorial discretion the government may refuse to go forward on a crime.

It will happen soon. Just as former VP Dick Cheney went totally free after his own co-conspirator (Scooter Libby) was convicted, you will see Trump go totally free after his co-conspirator (Michael Cohen) was convicted. It proves that there is no equal justice under US laws.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:16 pm

Syl wrote:The girl once pictured with Prince Andrew who opened that particular Pandora's box is happy.

"Virginia Roberts Giuffre cried tears of joy following the arrest of Ghislaine Maxwell after she accused the British socialite and late US billionaire Jeffrey Epstein of forcing her to have sex with Prince Andrew when she was a teenager.
Ms Roberts has sensationally claimed Maxwell arranged for her to have sex with Britain's Prince Andrew at her London townhouse and shared a photograph of her, Andrew and Maxwell she said was taken at the time, in 2000.
Ms Roberts said on Saturday: 'When I got the call I was elated, crying tears of joy, laughing … finally we got her'."

In this country, Andrew is of little consequence. He might help to convict Maxwell, but the person Americans want to hear from is E. Jean Carroll, who at age 13 was allegedly raped by Trump. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/30/nyregion/e-jean-carroll-trump-dna.html

See also: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/30/trump-dna-sought/

_________________
“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Star24 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:19 pm

Andrew is of little consequence here too, and a few
Of the royals don’t like him or his ex.

I read the other day that Maxwells friend says that
Maxwell is also a victim of Epstein.
Maxwell knew what she was doing and I think was
Only in it all for the money and the jet set high life
and he provided that for her. She was with him for
20 + yrs, She was an adult who could of walked away
at anytime, but she didn’t, so in my eyes she is as
guilty as the man himself!

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Post by Maddog on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:26 pm

Star24 wrote:Andrew is of little consequence here too, and a few
Of the royals don’t like him or his ex.

I read the other day that Maxwells friend says that
Maxwell is also a victim of Epstein.
Maxwell knew what she was doing and I think was
Only in it all for the money and the jet set high life
and he provided that for her. She was with him for
20 + yrs, She was an adult who could of walked away
at anytime, but she didn’t, so in my eyes she is as
guilty as the man himself!

Then I guess it wont matter if we lock him up. Cool

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:27 pm

Maybe Trump will pardon Maxwell. Then there would be no reason to question her, or press her in any way, and nothing will come out.

She could write a 'tell all' book and everything will come out that way. Trump will threaten suit, but never file it, because it's too dangerous as discovery will verify everything.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Star24 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:01 pm

Maddog wrote:
Star24 wrote:Andrew is of little consequence here too, and a few
Of the royals don’t like him or his ex.

I read the other day that Maxwells friend says that
Maxwell is also a victim of Epstein.
Maxwell knew what she was doing and I think was
Only in it all for the money and the jet set high life
and he provided that for her. She was with him for
20 + yrs, She was an adult who could of walked away
at anytime, but she didn’t, so in my eyes she is as
guilty as the man himself!

Then I guess it wont matter if we lock him up. Cool

He should do time for having sex with a minor.

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Post by Victorismyhero on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:17 pm

you can have him if you swap him for that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic immunity after killing that kid by driving on the wrong side of the road.

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Post by Original Quill on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:22 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:you can have him if you swap him for that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic immunity after killing that kid by driving on the wrong side of the road.

Nobody over here wants Andrew...he's nothing to us. We have enough to do with policing our own. You guys decide his fate, while we investigate what Trump did with that 13-year old.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

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Post by Syl on Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:59 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:you can have him if you swap him for that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic immunity after killing that kid by driving on the wrong side of the road.
Now that would be justice.

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:41 am

Victorismyhero wrote:you can have him if you swap him for that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic immunity after killing that kid by driving on the wrong side of the road.

Don't care about that issue, but tbh it was not false. It was an agreement for that particular base knowingly entered into by the British government.

She's obviously a Trump supporter. I'm wondering why you guys don't send 007 over to exercise his license? Ghislaine Maxwell arrested in America. - Page 2 2190311264

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vlad Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:03 am

Star24 wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Then I guess it wont matter if we lock him up. Cool

He should do time for having sex with a minor.

I think she was 17. It's creepy but I think it's legal. Unless there's other ones, or there was some sort of imprisonment, Andrew will likely just be embarrassed some more for hanging out with a creep.

But who knows? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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Post by Maddog on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:05 am

Victorismyhero wrote:you can have him if you swap him for that woman who falsely claimed diplomatic immunity after killing that kid by driving on the wrong side of the road.

That might work. And that's sorta what I'm getting at too. Do the Royals have something like diplomatic immunity?

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Post by Star24 on Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:41 am

Maddog wrote:
Star24 wrote:

He should do time for having sex with a minor.

I think she was 17. It's creepy but I think it's legal. Unless there's other ones, or there was some sort of imprisonment, Andrew will likely just be embarrassed some more for hanging out with a creep.  

But who knows? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

I thought that you had to be 21 before you were classed as an adult in
America?

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Post by Syl on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:16 pm

The age of consent to sex in the US is similar to here...16 in many states.

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Post by Syl on Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:18 pm

The girl was 17, old enough to give consent to sex, but she says she was coerced by Maxwell into having sex with various men. She claims she was forced to work as a prostitute or a sex slave, and Andrew was a customer she was ordered to sleep with.....I think that's the gist of it.

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Post by nicko on Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:12 pm

"Forced" to work as Prostitute, was she tied up, not able to get away ? Seems like a bit of BS to me !
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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:33 pm

Star24 wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I think she was 17. It's creepy but I think it's legal. Unless there's other ones, or there was some sort of imprisonment, Andrew will likely just be embarrassed some more for hanging out with a creep.  

But who knows? It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  

I thought that you had to be 21 before you were classed as an adult in
America?

It depends.  The ages of consent vary from state to state, and subject to subject.  The federal law centers around 18-years for common majority, and 21 for situations of extraordinary responsibility.  The following is a chart:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

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Post by Original Quill on Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:43 pm

nicko wrote:"Forced" to work as Prostitute,   was she tied up, not able to get away ?   Seems like a bit of BS to me !

"Coerced" is perhaps a better term. I'm sure beating and restraints play their part, but generally the coercion takes the shape of economic deprivation, involuntary addiction to drugs, and international trafficking, where language and customs present barriers.

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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Post by Syl on Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:57 pm

nicko wrote:"Forced" to work as Prostitute,   was she tied up, not able to get away ?   Seems like a bit of BS to me !

Physically she could have got away I presume, mentally maybe not so easily.
She refers to herself as a 'sex slave', so if she is telling the truth presumably she felt she was being forced into having sex with various men.

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Post by nicko on Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:17 pm

That's Rape then isn't it ?
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Post by Syl on Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:57 pm

nicko wrote:That's Rape then isn't it  ?
I dont think so.
She was being offered to the men, she may have been coerced or enticed to sleep  with  them but it seems Epstein and Maxwell were pulling the organisers.
It's possible the men she was being offered to didn't know the background story,  so it may be sleazy but it isn't rape.

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Post by Syl on Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:03 am

These are the allegations against Ghislaine Maxwell.


THE CHARGES
Conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (5 years max sentence)
Enticement of a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (20 years)
Conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (20 years)
Transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (10 years minimum, life maximum)
X 2 counts of Perjury (x 10 years)

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Post by Maddog on Wed Jul 08, 2020 1:20 am

Syl wrote:These are the allegations against Ghislaine Maxwell.


THE CHARGES
Conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (5 years max sentence)
Enticement of a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (20 years)
Conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (20 years)
Transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (10 years minimum, life maximum)
X 2 counts of Perjury (x 10 years)

Yeah, she's likely going to start talking. Whether she has anything to implicate anyone on is different. I mean she could have implicated Epstein if he hadn't "killed himself".

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:08 am

If she can implicate Epstein, she can implicate others up the chain. They aren't interested in a dead man's personal sex life.

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Post by Syl on Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:08 pm

Original Quill wrote:If she can implicate Epstein, she can implicate others up the chain.  They aren't interested in a dead man's personal sex life.

She can obviously implicate a lot of people...I wonder what bargaining tools will be offered to her?
And will they be offered to get her to speak out or to keep quiet??

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Post by JulesV on Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:40 pm

Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:Sorry guys but I just don't like Trump, he's plain MEAN!!

Dubya Bush was a Republican which is not quite my type of politics but for some reason I really liked Dubya.

Yeah he's mean.

What do you think Epstein was? A fucking angel?

Calm down ffs.
Criticising Trump does not mean anyone is an angel. Strange logic there.

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Post by Original Quill on Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:58 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:If she can implicate Epstein, she can implicate others up the chain.  They aren't interested in a dead man's personal sex life.

She can obviously implicate a lot of people...I wonder what bargaining tools will be offered to her?
And will they be offered to get her to speak out or to keep quiet??

She's being prosecuted by the Southern District of New York, an office that still maintains independence, and will until after the election.  The chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee says they will not confirm a new US Attorney before then, so no chance Trump can slip his own man in before then.  Berman's loyal assistant will be in charge until a new US Attorney is confirmed, and she is tough.

I suspect that Trump is high on the list of targets.  Unless Trump wins reappointment in November, prosecutors will be pumping her for every detail of Trump's involvement, particularly with then 13-year old E. Jean Carrol.  Others may fall, but all eyes will be on him. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/19/business/media/e-jean-carroll-elle.html

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"What's your's is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...  Putin tells him what to think.

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars
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