5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

by Lurker Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:01 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiple-victims-reportedly-stabbed-rabbi-s-new-york-home-n1108271

Five people were stabbed Saturday night at a rabbi's home in Monsey, New York, and a suspect was later arrested in New York City, police said. Gov. Andrew Cuomo called the attack an act of "domestic terrorism."

Ramapo Police Chief Brad Weidel said a man armed with a blade attacked around 10 p.m., on the seventh night of Hanukkah. The attacker, identified as 37-year-old Thomas Grafton, was arrested by the New York City police department nearly two hours later in the Harlem section of Manhattan, NBC New York reported.

Weidel said the victims were taken to two hospitals in the area. Their conditions were not released.

The suspect was caught in a car after license plate readers in Harlem and the George Washington Bridge were able to locate him, a senior law enforcement official told NBC News. Investigators requested a search warrant for the vehicle in an effort to determine whether the weapon was inside.

The suspect faces five counts of attempted murder and one count of burglary, authorities said Sunday.

Michael Specht, supervisor of the town of Ramapo, which provides government services to Monsey, said the attack took place during a Hanukkah celebration at the home of Rabbi Chaim L. Rottenberg, next to a synagogue. Monsey is an enclave of ultra-Orthodox Jews about 35 miles from New York City.

At least one of the victims was "seriously hurt," he said.

Chabad.org, the website of the Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic movement, published details that the organization's spokesman, Rabbi Motti Seligson, said are based on witnesses and other sources.

The site reported the suspect was wearing a scarf over his face and, after stabbing five and being chased from the home, tried to get into the synagogue but was blocked by people inside who had barricaded the door. The victims, according to the organization, were Hasidic Jews.

Cuomo visited Rabbi Rottenberg early Sunday before meeting with Jewish leaders in Monsey.

“This is an intolerant time in our country,” he said to reporters outside the rabbi's home on Sunday morning. “We see anger, we see hatred exploding.”

He added: “It is an American cancer on the body politic.”

He said he thought the crime was an act of domestic terrorism and expected it to be prosecuted that way.

The violence comes after at least eight attacks this month on Jewish people in New York City.

Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League, said on Twitter late Saturday that "after the hateful assaults we saw this past week in Brooklyn and Manhattan, it is heart-wrenching to see the holiday of Hanukkah violated yet again."

"We need authorities to provide increased protection NOW and ensure that the full force of the law is brought down on those who perpetrate such horrific crimes," he added.

The Guardian Angels, a private, unarmed crime-prevention group, said earlier Saturday that it would start patrolling New York City's Brooklyn borough on Sunday due to the recent attacks. The NYPD said Friday that it will step up patrols in high-profile Jewish neighborhoods.

"Last night’s attack in Monsey, Rockland County was a despicable display of hate," NYPD Chief of Departments Terence Monahan said Sunday. "NYPD cops, like those who apprehended the suspect in Harlem, are protecting NYC’s Jewish community."

There have been a spate of attacks on Jews across the nation since late 2018. On Oct. 27 of that year a man opened fire at the Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh, killing 11.

More recently, on Dec. 10, a couple opened fire at a kosher market in Jersey City, New Jersey, killing a police officer and three people who had been inside. The shooters were killed in the exchange of gunfire with law enforcement.

Bernice King, CEO of the nonprofit King Center and daughter of Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King, described Saturday night's attack as being "against a people and a promise."

"I am praying for our Jewish family members and I encourage us all to refuse to adjust to anti-Semitic stereotypes and to rhetoric/language that dehumanizes," she said on Twitter. "We can’t pretend that hate is dormant."

New York City Comptroller Scott M. Stringer tweeted that the attack was "heartbreaking and horrifying."

"Being Jewish should not mean living in fear," he said. "We must redouble our efforts to keep our community safe in the face of rising anti-Semitism."

Ed Day, the executive of Rockland County, where the attacks occurred, tweeted that he had confidence local law enforcement would find whoever did it.

"Law enforcement in Rockland will leave no stone unturned as they bring those guilty of this crime to swift and severe justice," he said.

Letitia James, the attorney general of the state of New York, tweeted late Saturday that she was "deeply disturbed by the situation unfolding in Monsey, New York tonight."

"There is zero tolerance for acts of hate of any kind and we will continue to monitor this horrific situation," she said.

"I stand with the Jewish community tonight and every night."

President Reuven Rivlin of Israel also condemned the attack, saying on Twitter that a collective effort is needed to stop future incidents.

“Shocked and outraged by the terrible attack in #NY and praying for the recovery of those injured. #Antisemitism is not just a #Jewish problem, and certainly not just the State of #Israel's problem," he said.

“We must work together to confront this rising evil, which is a real global threat."

by Lurker Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:02 pm

..and I'll bet he was a republican Trump supporter....

by Original Quill Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:30 pm

Wasn't it Impeached President Trump who said: "There are a lot of good people there...on both sides!"

by nicko Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:10 pm

" bet he was a Trump supporter" your fucking sick as well as being mental !

by Original Quill Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:34 pm

nicko wrote: " bet he was a Trump supporter" your fucking sick as well as being mental !

We'll wait to see. The Governor of New York says it is a hate crime under Title Y - HATE CRIMES ACT OF 2000, Article 485 - (485.00 - 485.10) HATE CRIMES.

It was Trump who said there are a lot of good folks on both side of hate crimes (after the Charlottesville Nazi march). The head of the kKK thanked him. Presumably Trump feels the same about this attack on a rabbi's home.

Therefore, it seems logical that the perp here would support Trump since he (Trump) supports white supremacists and domestic terrorism.

by Guest Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:39 pm

I am seeing people who usually blame all antisemitism on white nationalists saying they are horrified about the machete attack on religious Jews in Money, NY Saturday night.

But look what they don't say:

None of them say that the attackers, here and in most of the other incidents over the past week, were black.

Mentioning that fact is Kryptonite. It is what Must Not Be Said. Black antisemitism must be subsumed under All Antisemitism which, as these people will insist, is driven by white supremacism.

But it is not true. There are at least four major types of antisemitism that are actively attacking Jews today: white nationalism, Arab/Muslim antisemitism, Leftist antisemitism (which disguises itself as anti-Zionism) and black antisemitism (which can be further broken down into Nation of Islam-type and inner city-type.)

They all have different methodologies and different philosophies. They cannot be fought as if they are the same thing. Lumping them all together is another way of downplaying them and ensuring that nothing is done.

Some are warning us to not mention the unmentionable:

It is true that there could be different motivations for black attacks on Jews - as I mentioned, Farrakhan hate of Jews is different from that of inner city blacks. Those are pretty much the only major flavors of black antisemitism I am aware of. But ignoring the commonality is a sure way to ensure that the problem is not solved. It would be foolish to assume that there is no element of copycat attacks as black people are hitting Jewish people on the head in the streets of Brooklyn and running away. Certainly the black attackers don't have the same motivations as the Arab, white nationalist or Leftist antisemites.

If someone wants to do a study on black antisemitism, by all means, we can use more data. But don't ignore the problem because we don't fully understand it. There is enough data to start fighting it.

It is most definitely not incitement to mention that blacks are attacking Jews. It is pointing out the obvious, and ignoring it is a sure way to ensure that it continues. Incitement is encouraging violence, and absolutely no one is saying or implying "attack blacks because some of them hate Jews."

But there is another problem with sweeping the fact of black antisemitism under the rug. No matter what the motivation is, a large part of the solution is for respected leaders of the black community to speak out about it - not black Republican outliers, but the mainstream political, activist and religious black leaders. If no one acknowledges that there is a definite problem in the black community in the New York area that prompts the types of attacks we have seen over the past couple of years (often on video) there is no pressure for their leaders to speak out about it and stigmatize it.

The fear of being called a racist is stopping political allies from demanding a response from the community leaders. Meaning that actually fighting antisemitism is deemed to be less of a priority than the chance of being (falsely) labeled a racist by pointing out what everyone knows but no one on the left is willing to say out loud.

Most blacks are not antisemitic, although the percentage is roughly double that of whites (in 2016, 23% compared to 10%.) No one is saying that all blacks should be blamed. But the fear of being labeled a racist is the major reason there has not been any effective outreach to the black community to help solve this problem.

Conservatives cannot do a damn thing to stop this scourge.

We need black leaders to step up. And we need their political allies on the Left to pressure them to speak up. Their refusal to admit that there is such a thing as black antisemitism is the major reason that it is getting worse. It is cowardice, pure and simple. And it reflects an unfortunate belief that it is better for Jews to be stabbed than for making black leaders uncomfortable that their communities are raising many youths to hate Jews.

Demanding that black leaders take responsibility for their own communities is a small price to pay to stop violent attacks. Anyone who thinks otherwise is enabling antisemitism. (And assuming that black leadership will lash out at anyone for bringing up the topic to save lives is itself condescending and racist.)

http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2019/12/leftists-can-fight-black-antisemitism.html

https://news.sky.com/story/new-york-stabbings-hanukkah-attack-on-rabbis-home-an-act-of-domestic-terror-governor-says-11897047

by Maddog Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:42 am

Lurker wrote:..and I'll bet he was a republican Trump supporter....

I'll take that bet. Cool

5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested Screen17

by Original Quill Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:34 pm

phil wrote:None of them say that the attackers, here and in most of the other incidents over the past week, were black.

Nor did they mention the color of his eyes, or how tall he is. Query: If he's a member of the League of Short People, do you suppose that means he can't be anti-semitic?

by Original Quill Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:42 pm

phil wrote:There are at least four major types of antisemitism that are actively attacking Jews today: white nationalism, Arab/Muslim antisemitism, Leftist antisemitism (which disguises itself as anti-Zionism) and black antisemitism (which can be further broken down into Nation of Islam-type and inner city-type.)

And here, all this time, you have been preaching to us that they are all the same.

Why try to link them at all? Why not call an Arab and Arab; leftist a leftist; black a black; and white nationalist a white nationalist? You falsely link them through antisemitism, and here we see the chaos you cause.

by Original Quill Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:14 pm

Larker wrote:..and I'll bet he was a republican Trump supporter....

After Charlottesville...

Trump gave license to all anti-semitic groups by simply saying they are "fine people". We don't need to compare the ideology of one group to the ideology of another group. All groups received a singular message: their president says they are "fine people".

President Trump in their eyes did not distinguish between and among them. All of them received a common message...that their hatred toward Jews was now legitimized.

Maybe the better way to put it, Larker, is to say that Trump supports them in their anti-semitism.

by Maddog Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm

5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested Shooti10

Meanwhile, in a house of worship 1500 miles away...............

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:38 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:There are at least four major types of antisemitism that are actively attacking Jews today: white nationalism, Arab/Muslim antisemitism, Leftist antisemitism (which disguises itself as anti-Zionism) and black antisemitism (which can be further broken down into Nation of Islam-type and inner city-type.)

And here, all this time, you have been preaching to us that they are all the same.

Why try to link them at all? Why not call an Arab and Arab; leftist a leftist; black a black; and white nationalist a white nationalist? You falsely link them through antisemitism, and here we see the chaos you cause.

In fact I have often stated how they all share similar hateful views of Jews. But there is different types of antisemitism
Piss poor deflection from the fact there has been a surge of hatred from the African American community
You know the group of people you claim cannot be racist
How easy it is to dispel the leftist clap trap you come out with
The fact is you have always been an enabler of antisemitism yourself
So I am hardly going to take your views seriously here
Its also very easy to see where this hate is stemming from

https://twitter.com/DylMeisner/status/1208592033566183424

by nicko Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:49 pm

+1

by Original Quill Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:57 pm

phil wrote:In fact I have often stated how they all share similar hateful views of Jews. But there is different types of antisemitism

And yet, here you are having to explain the confusion you have created. Why not just deal with the pertinent issue of causation/motive for the given incident. If it's a Muslim causing the incident, say it. If it's a white supremacist, mention that motive.

But don't try to mix them all together so as to help your bias in one area, lend support to your bias in another area. It’s about the story, it’s not about you.

by Guest Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:In fact I have often stated how they all share similar hateful views of Jews. But there is different types of antisemitism

And yet, here you are having to explain the confusion you have created. Why not just deal with the pertinent issue of causation/motive for the given incident. If it's a Muslim causing the incident, say it. If it's a white supremacist, mention that motive.

But don't try to mix them all together so as to help your bias in one area, lend support to your bias in another area. It’s about the story, it’s not about you.

There is only confusion for you it seems

Everyone else see the problem

Its funny, because I never claimed the story was about me. You tried to poorly make this about me. Its one of your deflection tricks

This individual was searching about Hitler and the eradication of Jews

Again but where did he start to begin to hold hateful views

The likes of Nation of Islam, Linda Sarsour, Ilhan Omar etc There antisemitism is often downplayed, when its these very people that inspire such hate of Jews. When it comes from the left. So Jews in the US face hate from all quarters. At least I speck out on antisemitism on the right. You as seen once again make excuses and do not want to tackle the problem on all fronts.

The thing is you wont, because like I say you are an enabler of antisemitism, who constantly gets away with antisemitism on this forum

by Maddog Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:23 pm

This time he had poked fun at Jews by calling them “Hymie” and New York City “Hymie-town,” and what he’d said had been quoted and condemned in the Washington Post. At first he had denied the remarks; then, turning street fighter, he had tried to put Jews on the defensive, accusing them of making him the target of a Jewish conspiracy to ruin his campaign. But the counterattack hadn’t worked, and day by day the furor had grown. Within two weeks his historic run for the presidency had nearly collapsed, and Jackson was trapped: There was no choice now but to swallow his pride and own up to his mistake.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-10-19-tm-5850-story.html

by Fred Moletrousers Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:19 pm

Lurker wrote:..and I'll bet he was a republican Trump supporter....

Really, Lurker? Why not a Democrat supporter? You know, the approximate US equivalent of the UK Labour Party which, I suspect, you would support.

When we are looking for antiSemites in this country the far Left faction of the Labour Party is one of the first ports of call. They have hounded perfectly decent Labour MPs of Jewish background from their seats and in one notorious case a prominent Jewish Labour MP was obliged to ask for police protection at her own party conference,(convention) because of the relentless and disgusting hate campaign that had been directed against her.

From your point of view Republicans appear to be solely responsible for every evil under the American sun while all that is good from that same American sun shines out of the arseholes of Democrats.

While I do not, and have no cause, to support either the US Republican Party or the US Democratic Party, all I can say that if you are typically representative of the sheer brainwashed, unquestioning, obsessive hatred of Republicans I personally would be inclined to vote for them.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:50 am

https://twitter.com/MicheleSabra/status/1211734314167259136

https://twitter.com/SophNar0747/status/1211809728621400067

https://twitter.com/YosephHaddad/status/1211615830401855488

https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/cops-probing-whether-monsey-stabbing-suspect-grafton-thomas-tied-to-earlier-synagogue-attack/

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:03 am

Thorin wrote:https://twitter.com/MicheleSabra/status/1211734314167259136

https://twitter.com/SophNar0747/status/1211809728621400067

https://twitter.com/YosephHaddad/status/1211615830401855488

https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/cops-probing-whether-monsey-stabbing-suspect-grafton-thomas-tied-to-earlier-synagogue-attack/

https://nypost.com/2019/12/30/tiffany-harris-let-loose-again-after-second-alleged-anti-semitic-assault/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&__twitter_impression=true

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:14 am

phil wrote:Its funny, because I never claimed the story was about me. You tried to poorly make this about me. Its one of your deflection tricks

But your reputation precedes you. You have tried to relate everything having to do with the Jews back-dated to the holocaust. The rest of us have moved on, didge. Jews, in particularly Israel, are to be judged by their actions today.

When Trump is erased, we will remember. The US will "never again" pass measures/funds to support Israel. They have betrayed our trust.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:28 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:Its funny, because I never claimed the story was about me. You tried to poorly make this about me. Its one of your deflection tricks

But your reputation precedes you. You have tried to relate everything having to do with the Jews back-dated to the holocaust. The rest of us have moved on, didge. Jews, in particularly Israel, are to be judged by their actions today.

When Trump is erased, we will remember. The US will "never again" pass measures/funds to support Israel. They have betrayed our trust.

What do Jews have to be judged on for today Quill?
What actions?
You stipulate Jews and Jews in Israel, so once again Quill exposes his antisemitism to the forum

That was very easy and helps understand why you failed to condemn the attack and instead bring up Trump and Charlottesville

Sorry but you are antisemitic scum

Now fuck off

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:28 am

Fred M. wrote:While I do not, and have no cause, to support either the US Republican Party or the US Democratic Party, all I can say that if you are typically representative of the sheer brainwashed, unquestioning, obsessive hatred of Republicans I personally would be inclined to vote for them.

I gather you support the caging of children, the embezzlement of Congressional funds, in violation of the Impoundment control act of 1974, the extortion of foreign nations, and bribery of them in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

Shame on you, Fred. You are being sucked in just like the Republicans. I guess it shows how easy corruption is to accomplish. Maybe you should get close to El Chapo…a lotta money to be made there.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:32 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But your reputation precedes you. You have tried to relate everything having to do with the Jews back-dated to the holocaust. The rest of us have moved on, didge. Jews, in particularly Israel, are to be judged by their actions today.

When Trump is erased, we will remember. The US will "never again" pass measures/funds to support Israel. They have betrayed our trust.

What do Jews have to be judged on for today Quill?
What actions?
You stipulate Jews and Jews in Israel, so once again Quill exposes his antisemitism to the forum

That was very easy and helps understand why you failed to condemn the attack and instead bring up Trump and Charlottesville

Sorry but you are antisemitic scum

Now fuck off

How Ben has allowed you to continually get away with antisemitism is beyond me, but its no bother

I not going to bother interacting with such a racist low life as yourself

The proof is in the pudding where now you think Jews should be judged for their actions, just Jews mind it seems, and they are being attacked daily by such a mentality that you share

The fact you cannot see history repeating itself and that no other group faces hate and hostility from all courners of the political spectrum extremes. Shows its people like you that enable antisemitism. That places you on a par with the far right

Now once again sod off, you pathetic antisemitic wanker

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:32 am

phil wrote:What do Jews have to be judged on for today Quill?
What actions?

Israeli Lebensraum.

When we get back control of the US, all support for Israel will stop. Anything associated with Trump will cease.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:34 am

Original Quill wrote:
phil wrote:What do Jews have to be judged on for today Quill?
What actions?

Israeli Lebensraum.

When we get back control of the US, all support for Israel will stop. Anything associated with Trump will cease.

Comparing Israel policy to Nazis

ergo Antisemitism

Now fuck off you low life antisemitic wanker

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:37 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

But your reputation precedes you. You have tried to relate everything having to do with the Jews back-dated to the holocaust. The rest of us have moved on, didge. Jews, in particularly Israel, are to be judged by their actions today.

When Trump is erased, we will remember. The US will "never again" pass measures/funds to support Israel. They have betrayed our trust.

What do Jews have to be judged on for today Quill?
What actions?
You stipulate Jews and Jews in Israel, so once again Quill exposes his antisemitism to the forum

That was very easy and helps understand why you failed to condemn the attack and instead bring up Trump and Charlottesville

Sorry but you are antisemitic scum

Now fuck off

Dodge the question, as he meant also Jews outside Israel

What a slip up to prove he is nothing more than antisemitic scum

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:43 am

phil wrote:How Ben has allowed you to continually get away with antisemitism is beyond me, but its no bother

How Ben has allowed you to continually get away with your hatred of women (a gang rapist appointed to the Supreme Court) or your hatred of blacks (black lives don't matter), escapes me too.

Perhaps Ben has given over the entire operation of the site to Victor, who obviously supports such causes.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:45 am

Also why should all Jews in Israel be judged?

You see a thread on an antisemitic attacked is turned and changed by Quill, to Trump, the right, Charlottesville and then Israel

He does not want to talk about actually what is happening in New York, as he might have to admit that there is a small number of African Americans who are targeting Jews.

Instead he has to make this about the Jews themselves

Hence I wont give someone of such antisemitic hate the time of day

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:55 am

phil wrote:Also why should all Jews in Israel be judged?

Likewise, why should Israel be given privileges? They are pursuing a program of Lebensraum. If the US helps them, we are aiding and abetting a larceny.

The US has a long-standing record of fighting for justice. To stand with Israel is to belie that record. We shouldn't betray our long-standing purposes.

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:00 am

Inconvenient Murders

The global surge in Jew-hatred barely registers in the West.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/05/opinion/politics/antisemitism-europe-corbyn.html

by Guest Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:07 am

A survivor of the NY Hanukkah stabbings smashed a table into the attacker's face. That's not all

When a man with a "big machete knife" burst into a rabbi's home, stabbing victims as they celebrated Hanukkah, Josef Gluck ran away from the danger.

Then he came back to confront it.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/ny-hanukkah-stabbings-hero-josef-gluck/index.html

by Maddog Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:12 am

by Fred Moletrousers Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:12 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:While I do not, and have no cause, to support either the US Republican Party or the US Democratic Party, all I can say that if you are typically representative of the sheer brainwashed, unquestioning, obsessive hatred of Republicans I personally would be inclined to vote for them.

I gather you support the caging of children, the embezzlement of Congressional funds, in violation of the Impoundment control act of 1974, the extortion of foreign nations, and bribery of them in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

Shame on you, Fred. You are being sucked in just like the Republicans. I guess it shows how easy corruption is to accomplish. Maybe you should get close to El Chapo…a lotta money to be made there.

There are things that I hate about the policies of all political parties, Quill, including both the UK Conservative and Labour parties, the only two which could possibly be of any real electoral interest to me.

So far as the US is concerned, I have lived through more than a dozen presidencies and have admired many of those of both parties, most recently Obama who, if memory serves, was not one of those Republicans who are apparently trying to "suck me in."

However, for Trump - who you say is "sucking me in" - I have nothing but contempt so far as his character is concerned, But my only knowledge of his Republican policies is what I can glean from from partisan comments made in this forum and a couple of specialist sites where I am in the company of several US posters.

Some of these are just as anti-Trump as those of Lurker, though not so obsessively so that they spam meme after meme on a daily (sometimes, it seems, almost hourly) basis with precious few actual facts and even less meaningful comment, while others appear to be firm supporters of the Republicans and even Trump himself.

Meanwhile, whether or not any of your indictments against Trump's activities are actually true I simply don't know, so your claim that I must "support" them is, to say the least, puzzling. And so far as your rather odd comment about me getting close to "El Chapo" is concerned, all I can say is that speaking a little Spanish I know that he must be a little feller, and that Wiki reveals that he is a drug dealer. I can only assume that he is also a Republican, but why you think that I could be interested in "getting close" to him also escapes me!

by Original Quill Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:42 pm

Fred M. wrote:Meanwhile, whether or not any of your indictments against Trump's activities are actually true I simply don't know, so your claim that I must "support" them is, to say the least, puzzling.

Fred, there is no question that Trump has committed these crimes. Trump admits them. Indeed, as to the Ukraine extortion plot, he offered up the evidence in the form of a script of the very phone call by which it took place.

Trump's modus operandi is to admit his criminal actions, and thereafter argue that they are not wrong. Trump's attitude undoubtedly comes from a lifetime of privilege, getting everything he wants due to his wealth and status. People around him find excuses to justify his actions, and he has no reason to believe he cannot do the same thing as president.

The problem is, there are a couple of centuries of law that says his actions are illegal. In a civil capacity, Trump would just hire lawyers and they would end up buying him out of trouble (Trump University; the many NDA’s, six bankruptcies). He used money to escape the consequences, and continue to lie about it. Now that he is in the big-time political arena, there are people who don't coddle him so.

So, there is no question that Trump is a criminal. He does what is called in law, confess and avoid. It is illegal, but in his small mind it isn't wrong and he's never brought to realization of the fact. But out here in the real world--where any of us would be brought to justice swiftly--I am amazed to find someone who appears to say: meh...I donno if the accusations are actually true.

To be honest, I chalk it up to your not following American politics. Thus, you rely on hackneyed platitudes like, he hasn't been convicted or innocent until proven guilty, when in fact he has admitted the truth of the matter of the crime. Instead of accusing you, I should perhaps be more patient and walk you through the law and facts to where you realize that an admission is a conviction that lacks only the signed verdict.

An admission is a speech act, not just an after-the-fact description. In fact, an admission is how the plea bargain system works. Trump is ignorant of the law. He actually believes his own bullshit. But lawyers are appalled at what he does, and they scurry about to shovel the shit out of the road. Why do you think Trump's lawyers would not let him speak or testify to either Congress, or Special Counsel Mueller’s investigation into his Russian dealings? It would be assisting in an act of perjury.

So, Trump has done all of the things of which he is accused. He’s just got all the king’s men and all the king’s lawyers to run around and clean up after him.

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Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested

Re: 5 people stabbed during Hanukkah party at rabbi's home in New York, suspect arrested