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Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:01 am

"Serious question:

Aside from the obvious fact that one is gender and the other is race.... what's the functional difference between blackface and drag queening?"

I follow Eric on Facebook. He's black libertarian from Dallas. He posed this question on his page. It's a good question.


https://www.facebook.com/EricJulyTX/

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:10 am

Maddog wrote:"Serious question:

Aside from the obvious fact that one is gender and the other is race.... what's the functional difference between blackface and drag queening?"

I follow Eric on Facebook. He's black libertarian from Dallas. He posed this question on his page. It's a good question.


https://www.facebook.com/EricJulyTX/

One is done out of envy and the other is done out of mockery.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:11 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:"Serious question:

Aside from the obvious fact that one is gender and the other is race.... what's the functional difference between blackface and drag queening?"

I follow Eric on Facebook. He's black libertarian from Dallas. He posed this question on his page. It's a good question.


https://www.facebook.com/EricJulyTX/

One is done out of envy and the other is done out of mockery.

Who is worshipping a hero and who is the hero?

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:14 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:"Serious question:

Aside from the obvious fact that one is gender and the other is race.... what's the functional difference between blackface and drag queening?"

I follow Eric on Facebook. He's black libertarian from Dallas. He posed this question on his page. It's a good question.


https://www.facebook.com/EricJulyTX/

One is done out of envy and the other is done out of mockery.

Well shit. You changed your post.

Are drag queens envious of women?

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:15 am

Hero-worship, envy, admiration ... I think all those things go into the making of a drag queen.

Do you think drag queens are mocking women?

Do you think people in blackface aren't mocking blacks?

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Post by Victorismyhero on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:19 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Hero-worship, envy, admiration ... I think all those things go into the making of a drag queen.

Do you think drag queens are mocking women?

Do you think people in blackface aren't mocking blacks?

dont both those questions depend on circumstances?

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Post by eddie on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:22 am

Both are entertainment. Depends how you choose to be triggered and what is considered “PC” at any given moment.

Some drag queens really do take the piss out of women by playing up the “femininity” of women.

Am I offended? Fuck no. It’s just entertainment.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Victorismyhero on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:25 am

question

if i were to join our local "operatic society"
and they were to put on a musical like "sanders of the river"
and I were to sing the role of the protagonist, a "native" (originally sung by Paul Robeson a man i greatly admire despite him being an ardent socialist Laughing )

should I be wrong "blacking up" or should they either not put on that musical or use a less able coloured singer?

yes I can sing the basso profundo of Paul Robeson, not with the same power but certainly true to the notes.


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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:36 am

In the U.S., blackface is basically the visual version of the N-word, and you'll find very few Americans who don't think it's racist.

As you often say, Vick, your mileage may vary.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by eddie on Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:38 am

Here’s another thought:

A black comedian ridicules black people, but it’s okay to laugh because he’s black but if a white person ridicules black people it’s BAD!

Help me out. I don’t get it.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:18 am

Ben Reilly wrote:Hero-worship, envy, admiration ... I think all those things go into the making of a drag queen.

Do you think drag queens are mocking women?

Do you think people in blackface aren't mocking blacks?

I think they are imitating people. Sorta like when Americans speak with a fake British accent. It could be mocking, or it could just be for a laugh.

Sorta like when Benny Hill would put on western garb and pretend to be a Texan and do a shitty attempt at a Texas drawl.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:21 am

Also, in the original question, I think it matters that both blacks and women have faced historic discrimination. It's not the same as someone imitating a white male.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:31 am

I think my question would be, do blackface/drag queen performances portray someone as dignified? Does one portrayal convey dignity, but not the other?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:42 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I think my question would be, do blackface/drag queen performances portray someone as dignified? Does one portrayal convey dignity, but not the other?

That's a good question. Would you or I be conveying dignity strutting around in heels and a dress?

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by eddie on Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:30 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I think my question would be, do blackface/drag queen performances portray someone as dignified? Does one portrayal convey dignity, but not the other?

That's a good question. Would you or I be conveying dignity strutting around in heels and a dress?

Ah, good question. Picking up on the “dignified”. I like it!

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Post by eddie on Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:57 am

Maddog wrote:Also, in the original question, I think it matters that both blacks and women have faced historic discrimination.  It's not the same as someone imitating a white male.  

We have to wait for my son’s generation - the intelligent ones, the independent thinkers, obviously -  to change the world with independent thought and realising that we aren’t just a product of what we are told to be and what we must think.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Eilzel on Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:22 am

If people REALLY don't know why blackface is considered offensive but drag isn't, then History remains a topic that clearly still needs to be taught, and considerably better than it has been up to now.

You can't just dismiss historic crimes against entire groups when there are still people alive who experienced those crimes.

PERHAPS in 50 years time, the gross associations of blackface will be gone, along with the last generations to experience them - but that is not the case today.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:37 am

Eilzel wrote:If people REALLY don't know why blackface is considered offensive but drag isn't, then History remains a topic that clearly still needs to be taught, and considerably better than it has been up to now.

You can't just dismiss historic crimes against entire groups when there are still people alive who experienced those crimes.

PERHAPS in 50 years time, the gross associations of blackface will be gone, along with the last generations to experience them - but that is not the case today.

But apparently history is a useless topic that we should all be trying to forget.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:If people REALLY don't know why blackface is considered offensive but drag isn't, then History remains a topic that clearly still needs to be taught, and considerably better than it has been up to now.

You can't just dismiss historic crimes against entire groups when there are still people alive who experienced those crimes.

PERHAPS in 50 years time, the gross associations of blackface will be gone, along with the last generations to experience them - but that is not the case today.

I understand the historic implications. I posed this question on my Facebook page and a lesbian friend of mine laid it out very well.

But in 2019 should a white male be judged differently for dressing up as Obama than as Hillary?

On Eric's page, folks differentiated between being a random black dude, as opposed to impersonating a real person or a fictional character. I'm not so sure it works that way.

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:51 pm

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:If people REALLY don't know why blackface is considered offensive but drag isn't, then History remains a topic that clearly still needs to be taught, and considerably better than it has been up to now.

You can't just dismiss historic crimes against entire groups when there are still people alive who experienced those crimes.

PERHAPS in 50 years time, the gross associations of blackface will be gone, along with the last generations to experience them - but that is not the case today.

I understand the historic implications.  I posed this question on my Facebook page and a lesbian friend of mine laid it out very well.  

But in 2019 should a white male be judged differently for dressing up as Obama than as Hillary?

On Eric's page, folks differentiated between being a random black dude, as opposed to impersonating a real person or a fictional character.  I'm not so sure it works that way.  

We need to define our terms better before we continue. When I think of blackface, I think of a white person with the old-fashioned minstrel show makeup on, not of the white actor who put on brown makeup to play Obama on Saturday Night Live.

Likewise, a man can't just dress as a woman and be a drag queen. Being a drag queen is a lifestyle, not a Halloween costume.

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:37 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I understand the historic implications.  I posed this question on my Facebook page and a lesbian friend of mine laid it out very well.  

But in 2019 should a white male be judged differently for dressing up as Obama than as Hillary?

On Eric's page, folks differentiated between being a random black dude, as opposed to impersonating a real person or a fictional character.  I'm not so sure it works that way.  

We need to define our terms better before we continue. When I think of blackface, I think of a white person with the old-fashioned minstrel show makeup on, not of the white actor who put on brown makeup to play Obama on Saturday Night Live.

Likewise, a man can't just dress as a woman and be a drag queen. Being a drag queen is a lifestyle, not a Halloween costume.

Was Trudeau in blackface in those pics from a decade ago?

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Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:17 pm

Eric July Screen16


Is this blackface?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:53 pm

He was in brownface, wearing a turban and calling himself Aladin. That isn't blackface, at least not to me. He's not even pretending to be a black man.

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Post by Maddog on Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:48 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:He was in brownface, wearing a turban and calling himself Aladin. That isn't blackface, at least not to me. He's not even pretending to be a black man.

So why the apology?

Would he have to apologize for wearing a dress and pretending to be the queen?

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Post by Ben Reilly on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:56 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:He was in brownface, wearing a turban and calling himself Aladin. That isn't blackface, at least not to me. He's not even pretending to be a black man.

So why the apology?

Would he have to apologize for wearing a dress and pretending to be the queen?

I have no idea why he apologized, you'll have to ask him. I wouldn't have.

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Post by Original Quill on Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:47 pm

Politics. Eric July 2190311264

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Eric July Empty Re: Eric July

Post by Maddog on Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:46 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So why the apology?

Would he have to apologize for wearing a dress and pretending to be the queen?

I have no idea why he apologized, you'll have to ask him. I wouldn't have.

You really have no idea why he apologized?

How long have you been visiting this fine little planet?

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Post by Maddog on Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:07 pm

From The Guardian...


The scandal erupted late on Wednesday, when Time magazine published an image of Trudeau dressed as Aladdin – complete with dark skin makeup and a turban – at a 2001 function at a private school where he was then working as a 29-year-old teacher.

Trudeau immediately apologized, and acknowledged that he had previously blacked up at a high school talent show, when he had sung Day-O, the traditional Jamaican song.

“I apologise profoundly,” Trudeau told reporters aboard his campaign plane. “I didn’t think it was racist at the time, but now I see, it was a racist thing to do.

“I’m pissed off at myself. I’m disappointed in myself,” he said.

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