What has the LGBT community got against lesbians?

[Guest]

Everywhere you look, there are reminders of how little the safety and wellbeing of lesbian women is valued. We can’t seem to escape violence and vilification. Especially since, in recent months, a lot of it has come from within the LGBT communities we helped build.

This year, an endless string of physical attacks has been reported in the news. In London, for example, a group of young men assaulted a lesbian couple on a bus after the two women refused to kiss for their entertainment. The teenagers responsible were charged last week. Then, Ellie-Mae Mulholland, an 18-year-old lesbian from Walsall Garth, was beaten black and blue by assailants who told her “you and your girlfriend are going to get it 10 times worse next time”. In Chile’s Fifth region, multiple butch lesbians have been assaulted and murdered.

Lesbians need as much support now as we ever did. But even within LGBT spheres, where we are – at least theoretically – part of the community, lesbians are now being vilified. For decades, gay and lesbian rights advocates fought for our sexualities to be accepted as legitimate.

But on Twitter the word lesbian has become a suspicious ‘TERF dogwhistle’. TERF is a nasty term. It stands for trans-exclusionary radical feminist and is used, in particular, to describe lesbian feminists, because we aren’t always willing to toe the latest ideological line when it comes to gender. It has also become synonymous with being subhuman.


https://unherd.com/2019/07/why-has-the-lgbt-community-turned-against-lesbians/?=sideshare

[Original Quill]

The lesbian is the most vulnerable from the right. If you look around the world, two kinds of people are the targets of the right whites. The first is race, of course.

But the second is women...most likely because the hooters who occupy the RW tend to be weak males, who are reminded of their ex-wives when confronted with a lesbian.

Lesbians are some of the gentlest people I know, but their presence as an assumed male, in a female body, is most threatening to the weak male ego. It's the very essence of what causes wife-beating.

[Tommy Monk]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

[Original Quill]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

I'm speaking generally. RW knuckle-draggers have a huge problem with assertive women. Lesbian haters, as with wife-beaters, are giving vent to their insecurities.

RW knuckle-draggers are loaded with such fearful types.

[Eilzel]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

['Wolfie]

Tommy's fuckbrained and retrograde racist attitudes showing through loud and clear, yet again...

Doesn't really matter what "colour" the assailants and abusers might be..

Many types of discrimination remain 'colourblind'.

Yet there still remains that handful of stupid narrow-minded Anglo' xenophobic bigots on here, all too ready to label any perpetrator as "black", "coloured", "those people" and/or "immigrants"..

Even before they have been identified...

[Guest]

I see this thread has gone a million miles off the actual topic of the article

[Tommy Monk]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!


All true!!!


No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

[Tommy Monk]

Tommy's fuckbrained and retrograde racist attitudes showing through loud and clear, yet again...

Doesn't really matter what "colour" the assailants and abusers might be..

Many types of discrimination remain 'colourblind'.

Yet there still remains that handful of stupid narrow-minded Anglo' xenophobic bigots on here, all too ready to label any perpetrator as "black", "coloured", "those people" and/or "immigrants"..

Even before they have been identified...

These thugs have already been found and charged...

[Syl]

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!


All true!!!


No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

I dont agree Tommy. Just because someone is in the minority, like homosexuals, or green eyed blondes, or people over 6' 2''....that doesn't mean those people are not normal or natural....they are just not as abundant as straight, brown haired little folk.

[Tommy Monk]

Sorry Syl... the people themselves can appear perfectly normal... but homosexuality certainly isnt...

[Raggamuffin]

Tommy's fuckbrained and retrograde racist attitudes showing through loud and clear, yet again...

Doesn't really matter what "colour" the assailants and abusers might be..

Many types of discrimination remain 'colourblind'.

Yet there still remains that handful of stupid narrow-minded Anglo' xenophobic bigots on here, all too ready to label any perpetrator as "black", "coloured", "those people" and/or "immigrants"..

Even before they have been identified...

It was Quill who brought up colour, not Tommy. It's strange that you didn't have a go at him ...

[Original Quill]

Tommy's fuckbrained and retrograde racist attitudes showing through loud and clear, yet again...

Doesn't really matter what "colour" the assailants and abusers might be..

Many types of discrimination remain 'colourblind'.

Yet there still remains that handful of stupid narrow-minded Anglo' xenophobic bigots on here, all too ready to label any perpetrator as "black", "coloured", "those people" and/or "immigrants"..

Even before they have been identified...

It was Quill who brought up colour, not Tommy. It's strange that you didn't have a go at him ...

No, I cited color as one of the two factors that send RW'ers into apoplectic shock, only in passing. As the title indicates, this thread is about lesbians.

[Original Quill]

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!

All true!!!

No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

We've had this discussion many times before.  You have consistently been unable to prove your point...which shows it's a judgment, not a fact.

Homosexuality exists...and that in and of itself, proves that it is natural.

[Raggamuffin]

It was Quill who brought up colour, not Tommy. It's strange that you didn't have a go at him ...

No, I cited color as one of the two factors that send RW'ers into apoplectic shock, only in passing.  As the title indicates, this thread is about lesbians.

Indeed it is, which is why there was no reason for you to start talking about "right whites".

[Original Quill]

No, I cited color as one of the two factors that send RW'ers into apoplectic shock, only in passing.  As the title indicates, this thread is about lesbians.

Indeed it is, which is why there was no reason for you to start talking about "right whites".

As even you can see, you're dancing with the examples and missing the point.  The RW has a pattern of bigotry, reflected in the two examples of color and alternate gender identification.

But return to the subject, and it is a much harder place to make tommy's argument.

[Syl]

Sorry Syl... the people themselves can appear perfectly normal... but homosexuality certainly isnt...

It's as normal and natural to them as heterosexuality is as normal and natural to you.

[Raggamuffin]

Indeed it is, which is why there was no reason for you to start talking about "right whites".

As even you can see, you're dancing with the examples and missing the point.  The RW has a pattern of bigotry, reflected in the two examples of color and alternate gender identification.

But return to the subject, and it is a much harder place to make tommy's argument.

You tried to change the subject. It's no good you trying to claim that it was an "example".

[Original Quill]

As even you can see, you're dancing with the examples and missing the point.  The RW has a pattern of bigotry, reflected in the two examples of color and alternate gender identification.

But return to the subject, and it is a much harder place to make tommy's argument.

You tried to change the subject. It's no good you trying to claim that it was an "example".

No, I just gave an example.  You're the one who made a big deal of it.

Examples communicate by metaphors, showing how the logic of a comparable case or situation plays out.  At best, it's worth a side-bar.  But you should never lose sight of the central point of the thread/argument.

[eddie]

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!

All true!!!

No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

We've had this discussion many times before.  You have consistently been unable to prove your point...which shows it's a judgment, not a fact.

Homosexuality exists...and that in and of itself, proves that it is natural.

Agreed.

[Ben Reilly]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!


All true!!!


No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

Marriage in the BIBLE used to be be between a man and however many women he wished to marry. Elsewhere around the world and in other times, marriage has been between a woman and several men, etc. Marriage is whatever society defines it as.

To say homosexuality isn't normal or natural, you first have to define what normal or natural means, and I bet you run into as much difficulty there as with what marriage means.

Unless you think that you and only you are right, that you are some sort of fountain of universal truth.

[Ben Reilly]

Tommy's fuckbrained and retrograde racist attitudes showing through loud and clear, yet again...

Doesn't really matter what "colour" the assailants and abusers might be..

Many types of discrimination remain 'colourblind'.

Yet there still remains that handful of stupid narrow-minded Anglo' xenophobic bigots on here, all too ready to label any perpetrator as "black", "coloured", "those people" and/or "immigrants"..

Even before they have been identified...

These thugs have already been found and charged...

Then what color are they? And why does it matter?

BTW, I read they were from Chelsea, Kensington, Wandsford ... not exactly hotbeds of thuggery, are they?

[Tommy Monk]

We've had this discussion many times before.  You have consistently been unable to prove your point...which shows it's a judgment, not a fact.

Homosexuality exists...and that in and of itself, proves that it is natural.

Agreed.  

An occurrence of something, doesn't necessarily define it as being normal or natural...


Some people like to drink piss... but that doesn't mean it is normal or natural to do so...

And although the piss drinkers may well be lovely people in all manner of ways... I draw the line at the point where they try to get 'piss' being served as a regular beverage in shops/bars/restaurants etc, in the name of 'equality' etc...

[Tommy Monk]

And... the other girl in the OP...


18-year-old Ellie-Mae Mulholland, from Hull, East Riding, was reportedly attacked after confronting a friend over a tenner they owed her.


She was attacked by two other females...

[Eilzel]

Quill thinks that the 2 lesbians in OP were attacked by right wing white males...


I would bet my house on the attackers being blacks!!!

Whether true or not they are also almost certainly the sort of people who oppose gay marriage, think gays shouldn't be allowed to adopt, think children are better off with parents of the opposite gender, think LGBT issues should not be taught in schools and think homosexuality is not natural or normal

Marriage is between a man and a woman... adopted children should only be placed in a normal and natural parenting structure of a mother and a father... section 28 was a good thing... homosexuality is not normal or natural...!


All true!!!


No matter how much you want to believe otherwise!!!

I don't care what your views are. The point I was making is that people WITH those barbaric views are more likely to carry out vicious acts against people they believe 'aren't normal' or are 'dangerous' to children

[Tommy Monk]

Nothing barbaric about my views...

[Eilzel]

Nothing barbaric about my views...

Disagreed.

In countries where your views are most mainstream, barbaric is exactly the way they treat gay people.

See: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Uganda etc...

[Tommy Monk]

My view is that homosexuals should not be persecuted and certainly not murdered by Islamist nut cases...!

[Eilzel]

My view is that homosexuals should not be persecuted and certainly not murdered by Islamist nut cases...!

If we lived in the 1950s, which thankfully we don't, you'd be among those opposing decriminalising homosexuality.

The only reason you don't is because you live in 2019 and society has moved on, dragging you with it. But you share a lot of views with the people of those countries on these issues. You just don't go as far as making it criminal

[Syl]

My view is that homosexuals should not be persecuted and certainly not murdered by Islamist nut cases...!

Would you agree though that your views and attitude towards gay people make their lives more difficult Tommy?

Murder is obviously extreme, but just making a person feel as if they are abnormal and unatural in some way can  have a devastating effect on them too.

[Tommy Monk]

My view is that homosexuals should not be persecuted and certainly not murdered by Islamist nut cases...!

If we lived in the 1950s, which thankfully we don't, you'd be among those opposing decriminalising homosexuality.

The only reason you don't is because you live in 2019 and society has moved on, dragging you with it. But you share a lot of views with the people of those countries on these issues. You just don't go as far as making it criminal

When homosexuality was decriminalised, I doubt very much that it was ever imagined that a few years later that gays would be demanding to have marriage and adopt children and that homosexuality would be getting taught to children as being a normal and natural lifestyle choice and the same as heterosexuality... or that homosexuals would legally be allowed to pursue and bugger 16 year old boys...


If they knew then, what decriminalisation has unleashed now... then it would no doubt remained illegal...!

[Guest]

If we lived in the 1950s, which thankfully we don't, you'd be among those opposing decriminalising homosexuality.

The only reason you don't is because you live in 2019 and society has moved on, dragging you with it. But you share a lot of views with the people of those countries on these issues. You just don't go as far as making it criminal

When homosexuality was decriminalised, I doubt very much that it was ever imagined that a few years later that gays would be demanding to have marriage and adopt children and that homosexuality would be getting taught to children as being a normal and natural lifestyle choice and the same as heterosexuality... or that homosexuals would legally be allowed to pursue and bugger 16 year old boys...


If they knew then, what decriminalisation has unleashed now... then it would no doubt remained illegal...!

It clearly was imagined that one day homosexuals would have equal rights and fail to see how achiveing that is some how wrong to you.

The question to ask is why are you against homosexuals having equal rights?

The reality is homosexuality does not effect you and thus there is no reason to criminliase two consenting adults in love. When it does not effect anyone else. There is also nothing wrong with teaching children that some of their friends may have parents who are homosexual. There is no harm in doing that. It teaches inclusion, which clearly you of all people could have done with at school

[Tommy Monk]

There is nothing equal about homosexuality... and a child has a mother and a father!


Homosexuals are not physically capable of creating children together!

[Guest]

There is nothing equal about homosexuality... and a child has a mother and a father!


Homosexuals are not physically capable of creating children together!

The question is not on what homosexuality is equal to, but to have equality under the law.

Disabled people are not equal to other people, so would you deny them equal rights, using your warped terminology?

[Eilzel]

My view is that homosexuals should not be persecuted and certainly not murdered by Islamist nut cases...!

If we lived in the 1950s, which thankfully we don't, you'd be among those opposing decriminalising homosexuality.

The only reason you don't is because you live in 2019 and society has moved on, dragging you with it. But you share a lot of views with the people of those countries on these issues. You just don't go as far as making it criminal

When homosexuality was decriminalised, I doubt very much that it was ever imagined that a few years later that gays would be demanding to have marriage and adopt children and that homosexuality would be getting taught to children as being a normal and natural lifestyle choice and the same as heterosexuality... or that homosexuals would legally be allowed to pursue and bugger 16 year old boys...


If they knew then, what decriminalisation has unleashed now... then it would no doubt remained illegal...!

Sure you're right. And that view was the problem with people back then as it is with you now.

[Tommy Monk]

Decriminalisation of something abnprmal and unnatural does not mean it has to be actively promoted as being the same as normal and natural heterosexuality... or treated as such...

[Guest]

When homosexuality was decriminalised, I doubt very much that it was ever imagined that a few years later that gays would be demanding to have marriage and adopt children and that homosexuality would be getting taught to children as being a normal and natural lifestyle choice and the same as heterosexuality... or that homosexuals would legally be allowed to pursue and bugger 16 year old boys...


If they knew then, what decriminalisation has unleashed now... then it would no doubt remained illegal...!

Sure you're right. And that view was the problem with people back then as it is with you now.

Little point he has gone into default tommy mode again

[Tommy Monk]

I'm just telling it how it is...
.

[Eilzel]

When homosexuality was decriminalised, I doubt very much that it was ever imagined that a few years later that gays would be demanding to have marriage and adopt children and that homosexuality would be getting taught to children as being a normal and natural lifestyle choice and the same as heterosexuality... or that homosexuals would legally be allowed to pursue and bugger 16 year old boys...


If they knew then, what decriminalisation has unleashed now... then it would no doubt remained illegal...!

Sure you're right. And that view was the problem with people back then as it is with you now.

Little point he has gone into default tommy mode again

He doesn't seem to realise what he's saying in a roundabout way is 'we never should have decriminalised THEM, if THEY were going to start asking for MORE equality'.

Repulsive, honestly.

[Original Quill]

There is nothing equal about homosexuality... and a child has a mother and a father!

Homosexuals are not physically capable of creating children together!

Procreation is not the standard. It's your arbitrary opinion. Genetics happen...why is that not natural enough for you?

[Syl]

Tommy is obviously entitled to his view, but he sounds like a person 30 years older than he is, one who has never managed to move on from the dark old days when if you were gay, female or black, you  were so oppressed by society and law.

[Original Quill]

Tommy is obviously entitled to his view, but he sounds like a person 30 years older than he is, one who has never managed to move on from the dark old days when if you were gay, female or black, you  were so oppressed by society and law.

I know. With some people time moves on, and they get dragged along with it.

[Syl]

Tommy is obviously entitled to his view, but he sounds like a person 30 years older than he is, one who has never managed to move on from the dark old days when if you were gay, female or black, you  were so oppressed by society and law.

I know.  With some people time moves on, and they get dragged along with it.

Tommy wasn't even alive when homosexuality was illegal, or when men could freely rape their wives, or when many guest houses and pubs had notices up saying "NO BLACKS OR IRISH".
It's interesting how so many people of my generation have managed to move with the times yet Tommy, who is much younger (amazingly) seems to be stuck back in the dark ages.

[Guest]

Little point he has gone into default tommy mode again

He doesn't seem to realise what he's saying in a roundabout way is 'we never should have decriminalised THEM, if THEY were going to start asking for MORE equality'.

Repulsive, honestly.

Must be sickening for you to read mate. Though you are right, that is exactly what he is saying. That it was far better when laws criminalized homosexuals, than laws providing equal rights to them. Its so fucked up and hateful

[Original Quill]

I know.  With some people time moves on, and they get dragged along with it.

Tommy wasn't even alive when homosexuality was illegal, or when men could freely rape their wives, or when many guest houses and pubs had notices up saying "NO BLACKS OR IRISH".
It's interesting how so many people of my generation have managed to move with the times yet Tommy, who is much younger (amazingly) seems to be stuck back in the dark ages.

Tommy doesn't argue politics rationally, but tribally. Tribal people determine what the tribe wants first, then they work backwards to find a reason. Most people have reasons before they make a decision.

[Syl]

Tommy wasn't even alive when homosexuality was illegal, or when men could freely rape their wives, or when many guest houses and pubs had notices up saying "NO BLACKS OR IRISH".
It's interesting how so many people of my generation have managed to move with the times yet Tommy, who is much younger (amazingly) seems to be stuck back in the dark ages.

Tommy doesn't argue politics rationally, but tribally.  Tribal people determine what the tribe wants first, then they work backwards to find a reason.  Most people have reasons before they make a decision.

I dont often argue politics at all....and Tommy (as I said) is entitled to hold his own views.
His views do seem to be at odds with most other people, at least on here.

[eddie]

Tommy will never get it, he has been making the same inane arguments for years.

[Tommy Monk]

The extremists are those on one side who think homosexuals should be persecuted/arrested/imprisoned/executed... and on the other extreme where others think homosexuality should be lorded as being as normal and natural as heterosexuality and given the same status as well as taught to children that it is such... plus letting them get married in the same way (although impossible to consummate marriage or produce children etc)... plus considered as viable parents for adoptive children although this forced the child into an unnatural environment and deprives child of a mother and a father which is the natural thing for them and the best parental environment for them...


My views are very middle ground on it all... let them get on with their behaviour free from persecution and threats of criminality and violence... but also no to the promotion of homosexuality as being in any way parity to heterosexuality, and no to all their other demands around marriage and adoption, and no to any promotion in schools...!

[Original Quill]

The extremists are those on one side who think homosexuals should be persecuted/arrested/imprisoned/executed... and on the other extreme where others think homosexuality should be lorded as being as normal and natural as heterosexuality and given the same status as well as taught to children that it is such... plus letting them get married in the same way (although impossible to consummate marriage or produce children etc)... plus considered as viable parents for adoptive children although this forced the child into an unnatural environment and deprives child of a mother and a father which is the natural thing for them and the best parental environment for them...


My views are very middle ground on it all... let them get on with their behaviour free from persecution and threats of criminality and violence... but also no to the promotion of homosexuality as being in any way parity to heterosexuality, and no to all their other demands around marriage and adoption, and no to any promotion in schools...!

How do you feel about brushing your teeth?

[Eilzel]

The extremists are those on one side who think homosexuals should be persecuted/arrested/imprisoned/executed... and on the other extreme where others think homosexuality should be lorded as being as normal and natural as heterosexuality and given the same status as well as taught to children that it is such... plus letting them get married in the same way (although impossible to consummate marriage or produce children etc)... plus considered as viable parents for adoptive children although this forced the child into an unnatural environment and deprives child of a mother and a father which is the natural thing for them and the best parental environment for them...


My views are very middle ground on it all... let them get on with their behaviour free from persecution and threats of criminality and violence... but also no to the promotion of homosexuality as being in any way parity to heterosexuality, and no to all their other demands around marriage and adoption, and no to any promotion in schools...!

That you think murdering gay people is COMPARABLY extreme to letting gay people get married just shows the extent of your delusion on this.

Your views aren't middle ground. They are one step away from Victorian puritanism

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