UK: Government benefits cuts leave thousands of HIV patients struggling to afford basic nutrition

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Because HIV suppresses the immune system, it is vital that patients are getting enough nutrition.


ccording to HIV experts, recent welfare reforms by the UK’s Coalition government have left thousands of HIV patients unable to afford the basic food they need to cope with their condition.

In an exclusive report by The Independent on Sunday, it emerged that the situation was now so critical, in some cases doctors were forced to prescribe food supplements to ensure that the patients’ medication would work.

David Asboe, chair of the British HIV Association and a consultant in HIV medicine at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital, said: “Before the past three or four years, I never saw people coming in and saying they didn’t have enough money for food. Now I’ve seen several people in my clinic where the fact that they’ve had a decrease in their income, related to benefit changes, means they can’t afford regular food.

“Sometimes I have to prescribe food supplements to help them. If this is one of the unintended consequences of benefit changes, I think it’s very important that it’s looked at.”

He added that because HIV “suppresses the immune system,” nutritional problems posed a serious threat to patients who weren’t getting enough food.

“About 70 to 80 per cent of all treatments for HIV have to be taken with a meal. That’s critical to the success of these treatments, and they have to be taken regularly and on time. Taking [medication] with food optimises the absorption and has an impact on effectiveness. There’s one treatment that has to be taken with a 400-calorie meal; there is evidence that, if you take it on an empty stomach, that compromises the treatment.”

The numbers of patients saying they needed emergence grants from the Terrence Higgins Trust (THT) because of benefit cuts jumped by 63 per cent between 2012 and 2013. There was also an overall 15 per cent rise in applications.

Of the 2,179 people given an emergency grant of £250 by THT last year, 919 were on benefits. Just under half of all those given help needed it specifically because they could not afford food.

Figures released in November last year by Public Health England showed HIV infections among gay and bisexual men at a record high.

Pamela Nash MP, chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on HIV and Aids, said: “These findings are truly alarming, and hopefully will send shockwaves through Whitehall. I find it deeply saddening that those with HIV in our country are not only having to deal with their condition, but now have the added burden of worrying about their finances.”

Caroline Lucas, Green MP for Brighton Pavilion, who is also a member of the HIV parliamentary group, said: “People with HIV often have to deal with a range of physical, emotional and social problems. It’s absolutely wrong that, on top of that, so many are also being forced into poverty by the coalition’s heartless austerity agenda.”

THT’s chief executive Paul Ward added: “What we’ve seen is that progressively more people have had their cases reviewed and, as a consequence, are no longer entitled to benefits at all. For many people with HIV, this isn’t a question of not having enough money to go to the cinema or buy some clothes. It means they have not got enough money to eat properly. For those who are very unwell, it means they struggle to make appointments simply because they don’t have money for the bus fare.

“The numbers in this report should act as a warning sign at all levels of government that people with HIV are not receiving the level of support needed to meet the most basic of costs. In an age when highly effective treatments mean that people with HIV can live long and healthy lives, it is nothing short of a disgrace that HIV and poverty should still so often go hand in hand.”

Earlier this month, THT said an extra 250,000 HIV tests a year could slash new infection rates.

Last month, in an exclusive interview with PinkNews.co.uk at a THT reception, Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg said the time had come for the UK’s political leaders to redouble their efforts in tackling the HIV epidemic among gay and bisexual men.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/02/23/uk-government-cuts-sickness-benefits-condemned-truly-alarming-thousands-hiv-patients-go-hungry/

This government is killing people.
    

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Doctors know what their patients tell them - they don't see their kitchen cupboards, and they're not with them when they're doing their grocery shopping. They can prescribe the stuff you're talking about, can't they?

No, they can't.   They can prescribe vitamin supplements, but you body doesn't deal with them in the same way as it does natural foods, and they don't work as well.   They can tell by the condition of the patient if they have been eating properly and if they have been having the correct diet to make their medication work properly.   Their health going downhill very quickly if that isn't the case.

Also, Doug's HIV specialist used to see him every three months, now it's every six months, private company delivers the drugs.

Which we already did, go back and read it.

A person with a suppressed immune system needs extra vitamins, minerals, protein etc. There is no way that can be done for £1 a day. They need fresh fish etc and well a fruit and veg, chicken, good wholemeal bread, butter not marg, nuts, berries for the anti toxins.

Without wanting to sound facetious, savoy cabbage has a lot of nutrients, and it lasts for ages. I got one last week and it's still going strong!

Sassy wrote:Which we already did, go back and read it.  

A person with a suppressed immune system needs extra vitamins, minerals, protein etc.   There is no way that can be done for £1 a day.   They need fresh fish etc and well a fruit and veg, chicken, good wholemeal bread, butter not marg, nuts, berries for the anti toxins.    

It's not £1 a day though is it?

Sassy wrote:Which we already did, go back and read it.  

A person with a suppressed immune system needs extra vitamins, minerals, protein etc.   There is no way that can be done for £1 a day.   They need fresh fish etc and well a fruit and veg, chicken, good wholemeal bread, butter not marg, nuts, berries for the anti toxins.    

I did not say they could - I said what is this special diet that cannot be done for £99 a week - or over £10 a day.

Raggamuffin wrote:Without wanting to sound facetious, savoy cabbage has a lot of nutrients, and it lasts for ages. I got one last week and it's still going strong!

Well then you are not eating enough of it. There are three of us, we'd eat a whole big one with a meal, and two other veg.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Without wanting to sound facetious, savoy cabbage has a lot of nutrients, and it lasts for ages. I got one last week and it's still going strong!

Well then you are not eating enough of it.   There are three of us, we'd eat a whole big one with a meal, and two other veg.

I've eaten loads of it!

If someone feels so ill, would they be able to eat a lot anyway?

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:Which we already did, go back and read it.  

A person with a suppressed immune system needs extra vitamins, minerals, protein etc.   There is no way that can be done for £1 a day.   They need fresh fish etc and well a fruit and veg, chicken, good wholemeal bread, butter not marg, nuts, berries for the anti toxins.    

I did not say they could - I said what is this special diet that cannot be done for £99 a week - or over £10 a day.

That £99 isn't just for food is it? Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

Raggamuffin wrote:If someone feels so ill, would they be able to eat a lot anyway?

With a crap immune system, good food is one of your main medicines.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

I did not say they could - I said what is this special diet that cannot be done for £99 a week - or over £10 a day.

That £99 isn't just for food is it?   Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If someone feels so ill, would they be able to eat a lot anyway?

With a crap immune system, good food is one of your main medicines.

That's all very well, but what if they have no appetite because they feel ill?

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:If someone feels so ill, would they be able to eat a lot anyway?

With a crap immune system, good food is one of your main medicines.

Doug is always hungry.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

I did not say they could - I said what is this special diet that cannot be done for £99 a week - or over £10 a day.

That £99 isn't just for food is it?   Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

So lets have some figures from you.

It is not good just giving lists of stuff - how much does it cost and how often is it needed.

How much do you think the government should be giving people?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That £99 isn't just for food is it?   Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS! And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS!   And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

He doesn't have to go to interviews every day does he? As for clothes, well I presume he already has some.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That £99 isn't just for food is it?   Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

Actually carers should resist people becoming housebound if they can - light fresh air and change of scene are important for mental health which is inextricably bound with physical health. If someone cant walk then get a wheelchair - take them outside for half an hour a day or more.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That £99 isn't just for food is it?   Its for shoes, clothes, heating, cleaning products, bus fares or petrol, replacing things that wear out, even sheets wear out, hoovers go wrong (and boy do you need cleaning stuff when your immune system is crap) laundry products, toiletries and loo paper to name but a few.

So lets have some figures from you.

It is not good just giving lists of stuff - how much does it cost and how often is it needed.

How much do you think the government should be giving people?

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS!   And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

Figures and frequency please.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So lets have some figures from you.

It is not good just giving lists of stuff - how much does it cost and how often is it needed.

How much do you think the government should be giving people?

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

And the figures you gave came to £20 to £30 a week for food. Leaving nearly £70 for everything else.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So lets have some figures from you.

It is not good just giving lists of stuff - how much does it cost and how often is it needed.

How much do you think the government should be giving people?

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

Sorry what money has been taken from HIV+ people?

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So lets have some figures from you.

It is not good just giving lists of stuff - how much does it cost and how often is it needed.

How much do you think the government should be giving people?

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

Which thread are the figures on?

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS!   And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

Figures and frequency please.

You're a grown woman with a brain. Work it out. Might keep you amused and stop you pontificating to Phil. Maybe it will also give you an insight into what you should be eating, which might make you somewhat better. Do some research and learn about.

sphinx wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

Actually carers should resist people becoming housebound if they can - light fresh air and change of scene are important for mental health which is inextricably bound with physical health.  If someone cant walk then get a wheelchair - take them outside for half an hour a day or more.

I totally agree with that. People need to get out into natural daylight even if they don't actually do anything.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

Which thread are the figures on?

Cant remember the name - it was a couple of weeks ago. Someone thought a single person needed to spend at least £40 a week on food.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Figures and frequency please.

You're a grown woman with a brain.   Work it out.   Might keep you amused and stop you pontificating to Phil.   Maybe it will also give you an insight into what you should be eating, which might make you somewhat better.   Do some research and learn about.

Moved beyond food - have accepted your figures that will require £20 to £30 a week for single person. That leaves £70 for everything else so maybe you want to explain how everything else comes to more than £70 a week.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I gave you the figures on another thread, just gave you the sort of food you need to have and the other stuff, and this ain't about what the government should be giving people, this is about what is happening to people with HIV who are not getting the correct diet because money has been taken from them.

Sorry what money has been taken from HIV+ people?

Well, it will be in one of the ones about benefits. There have been so many and on one we had the conversation, went through all the figures and Sphinx has tried to bring it up again and again and again in every other one.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

If someone is housebound, they don't need new shoes or clothes, and they don't need bus fares or petrol. The other stuff doesn't cost that much, and they wouldn't need that much of it.

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS!   And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

Hot one minute, and cold the next though, as you say though Sass, heating is very important and many people have key meters.
The girl who lives upstairs from us has one in our joint hallway, that is the most expensive tariff to be on and it goes down on credit very quickly.
It isn't like the dual fuel online tariff that you can get, she works and they won't remove it because she is only on a temporary contract.

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

You're a grown woman with a brain.   Work it out.   Might keep you amused and stop you pontificating to Phil.   Maybe it will also give you an insight into what you should be eating, which might make you somewhat better.   Do some research and learn about.

Moved beyond food - have accepted your figures that will require £20 to £30 a week for single person.  That leaves £70 for everything else so maybe you want to explain how everything else comes to more than £70 a week.

I did. And the £20 to £30 is not for someone on a diet for a poor immune system.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Sorry what money has been taken from HIV+ people?

Well, it will be in one of the ones about benefits.   There have been so many and on one we had the conversation, went through all the figures and Sphinx has tried to bring it up again and again and again in every other one.

Sorry what benefit has been taken from HIV+ people?

What money has been taken away from HIV+ people?

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:

He's not allowed to be housebound is he, he has to keep going to interviews with ATOS!   And you still need clothes to keep warm, and the other stuff costs a hell of a lot, cleaning products etc which are essential to stop you picking up bugs and you feel cold, so heating is really important.

Hot one minute, and cold the next though, as you say though Sass, heating is very important and many people have key meters.
The girl who lives upstairs from us has one in our joint hallway, that is the most expensive tariff to be on and it goes down on credit very quickly.
It isn't like the dual fuel online tariff that you can get, she works and they won't remove it because she is only on a temporary contract.

Your working neighbour being on a key meter because of a temporary contract is relevant to HIV how exactly?

sphinx wrote:

Catman wrote:

Hot one minute, and cold the next though, as you say though Sass, heating is very important and many people have key meters.
The girl who lives upstairs from us has one in our joint hallway, that is the most expensive tariff to be on and it goes down on credit very quickly.
It isn't like the dual fuel online tariff that you can get, she works and they won't remove it because she is only on a temporary contract.

Your working neighbour being on a key meter because of a temporary contract is relevant to HIV how exactly?

Your figure, that was pulled out the air, on how much one would spend on heating and lighting their homes for starters.  

sphinx wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Well, it will be in one of the ones about benefits.   There have been so many and on one we had the conversation, went through all the figures and Sphinx has tried to bring it up again and again and again in every other one.

Sorry what benefit has been taken from HIV+ people?

What money has been taken away from HIV+ people?

People like Doug.

So he gets about £100 a week now instead of £124. He can still have a good diet on that surely.

http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/nutrition-hiv-aids-enhancing-quality-life

Calories are the energy in foods that provide your body with fuel. To maintain your lean body mass, you may need to increase calories. To get enough calories:

   Consume 17 calories per pound of your body weight if you've been maintaining your weight.
   Consume 20 calories per pound if you have an opportunistic infection.
   Consume 25 calories per pound if you are losing weight.

Protein helps build muscles, organs, and a strong immune system. To get enough of the right types of protein:

   Aim for 100-150 grams a day, if you are an HIV-positive man.
   Aim for 80-100 grams a day, if you are an HIV-positive woman.
   If you have kidney disease, don't get more than 15%-20% of your calories from protein; too much can put stress on your kidneys.
   Choose extra-lean pork or beef, skinless chicken breast, fish, and low-fat dairy products.
   To get extra protein, spread nut butter on fruit, vegetables, or toast; add cheese to sauces, soups, potatoes, or steamed vegetables; add canned tuna to salads or casseroles.

Carbohydrates give you energy. To get enough of the right types of carbohydrates:

   Eat five to six servings (about 3 cups) of fruits and vegetables each day.
   Choose produce with a variety of colors to get the widest range of nutrients.
   Choose legumes and whole grains, such as brown rice and quinoa. If you do not have a gluten sensitivity whole-wheat flour, oats, and barley may be ok. If you do, stick with brown rice, quinoa, and potato as your starch sources. If you are diabetic or pre-diabetic or have insulin resistance, then most of your carbohydrates should come from vegetables.

A very rough guide Sphinx, load of other information about. That's just the basics, there are loads more foods that help and you should try and have.

Catman wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Your working neighbour being on a key meter because of a temporary contract is relevant to HIV how exactly?

Your figure, that was pulled out the air, on how much one would spend on heating and lighting their homes for starters.  

I have not pulled a figure out of the air - I have used what it costs to heat and light my home which is a 3 bed semi with 4 people and on key meter for both gas and electric. That is £30 a week.

sphinx wrote:

Catman wrote:

Your figure, that was pulled out the air, on how much one would spend on heating and lighting their homes for starters.  

I have not pulled a figure out of the air - I have used what it costs to heat and light my home which is a 3 bed semi with 4 people and on key meter for both gas and electric.  That is £30 a week.

Well lucky you, because I'm in a two bedroom with three people and it costs for gas and electric £45 a week and thats on dual fuel direct debit. Not all houses have up to date systems etc and I have to have extra heating.

Sassy wrote:http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/guide/nutrition-hiv-aids-enhancing-quality-life

Calories are the energy in foods that provide your body with fuel. To maintain your lean body mass, you may need to increase calories. To get enough calories:

   Consume 17 calories per pound of your body weight if you've been maintaining your weight.
   Consume 20 calories per pound if you have an opportunistic infection.
   Consume 25 calories per pound if you are losing weight.

Protein helps build muscles, organs, and a strong immune system. To get enough of the right types of protein:

   Aim for 100-150 grams a day, if you are an HIV-positive man.
   Aim for 80-100 grams a day, if you are an HIV-positive woman.
   If you have kidney disease, don't get more than 15%-20% of your calories from protein; too much can put stress on your kidneys.
   Choose extra-lean pork or beef, skinless chicken breast, fish, and low-fat dairy products.
   To get extra protein, spread nut butter on fruit, vegetables, or toast; add cheese to sauces, soups, potatoes, or steamed vegetables; add canned tuna to salads or casseroles.

Carbohydrates give you energy. To get enough of the right types of carbohydrates:

   Eat five to six servings (about 3 cups) of fruits and vegetables each day.
   Choose produce with a variety of colors to get the widest range of nutrients.
   Choose legumes and whole grains, such as brown rice and quinoa. If you do not have a gluten sensitivity whole-wheat flour, oats, and barley may be ok. If you do, stick with brown rice, quinoa, and potato as your starch sources. If you are diabetic or pre-diabetic or have insulin resistance, then most of your carbohydrates should come from vegetables.

A very rough guide Sphinx, load of other information about.  That's just the basics, there are loads more foods that help and you should try and have.

Hon I know nutrition thank you - although it is apparent that the only people who pay attention to that are the ones asking my ex husband why he was paying them money to tell him stuff I already knew but then that is the story of my life - people will pay experts who will tell them the exact thing I already did for nothing.

Now if you know the problem of feeding 2 incredibly fussy individuals (and I mean one who has been known to complain the chicken breast was fatty and refuses to eat any part of the chicken except the breast) who have very few dishes they agree on I am all ears - because my food needs are bottom of the the list in this house.

Sassy wrote:

sphinx wrote:

I have not pulled a figure out of the air - I have used what it costs to heat and light my home which is a 3 bed semi with 4 people and on key meter for both gas and electric.  That is £30 a week.

Well lucky you, because I'm in a two bedroom with three people and it costs for gas and electric £45 a week and thats on dual fuel direct debit.   Not all houses have up to date systems etc and I have to have extra heating.

I never said all houses were the same - I just said the figure I used was not pulled out of the air.

sphinx wrote:

Catman wrote:

Your figure, that was pulled out the air, on how much one would spend on heating and lighting their homes for starters.  

I have not pulled a figure out of the air - I have used what it costs to heat and light my home which is a 3 bed semi with 4 people and on key meter for both gas and electric.  That is £30 a week.

Do you have a key meter, i would suggest not since you say that there are four people living in your house, and atleast one must be working?
You wouldn't be on the most expensive tariff.
So when you are suggesting figures over how much it costs to heat or light a one bed flat etc, you don't have a fucking clue, since you live in a three bed semi fucking attatched house!

Well Sphinx, if you know about nutrition, how the hell did you think that the diet you came up with was nutritionally balanced? And in this case, it is the diet required by people with suppressed immune system, which is much more expensive.

Are you means tested Sphinx?

Catman wrote:

sphinx wrote:

I have not pulled a figure out of the air - I have used what it costs to heat and light my home which is a 3 bed semi with 4 people and on key meter for both gas and electric.  That is £30 a week.

Do you have a key meter, i would suggest not since you say that there are four people living in your house, and atleast one must be working?
You wouldn't be on the most expensive tariff.
So when you are suggesting figures over how much it costs to heat or light a one bed flat etc, you don't have a fucking clue, since you live in a three bed semi fucking attatched house!

Yes the Lodger works.

Yes I am on key meters.

I am not suggesting figures for a one bed flat - I am giving you the figures for my house because you accused me of pulling figures out of the air.

sphinx wrote:

Catman wrote:

Do you have a key meter, i would suggest not since you say that there are four people living in your house, and atleast one must be working?
You wouldn't be on the most expensive tariff.
So when you are suggesting figures over how much it costs to heat or light a one bed flat etc, you don't have a fucking clue, since you live in a three bed semi fucking attatched house!

Yes the Lodger works.

Yes I am on key meters.

I am not suggesting figures for a one bed flat - I am giving you the figures for my house because you accused me of pulling figures out of the air.

There would only be one key meter for a property.

Sassy wrote:Well Sphinx, if you know about nutrition, how the hell did you think that the diet you came up with was nutritionally balanced?   And in this case, it is the diet required by people with suppressed immune system, which is much more expensive.

There is a difference between nutritionally adequate and balanced. Which you obviously do not understand as you were having a fit about eating pre cooked bread.

I have not denied it is more expensive.

I have asked you to tell me what money has been taken away from HIV+ people and to tell me how much you think a suppressed immune system diet costs and how much you think everything else costs.

Maybe I should just give up and just get smug when you and catman announce that it is impossible for people to live on benefits because obviously I doing the impossible.

Catman wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Yes the Lodger works.

Yes I am on key meters.

I am not suggesting figures for a one bed flat - I am giving you the figures for my house because you accused me of pulling figures out of the air.

There would only be one key meter for a property.

Fuck me I better tell the power company then - which one am imagining, the one for electric or the one for gas?

Sassy wrote:Well Sphinx, if you know about nutrition, how the hell did you think that the diet you came up with was nutritionally balanced?   And in this case, it is the diet required by people with suppressed immune system, which is much more expensive.

It didn't look much different to the diet usually recommended for everyone tbh. Maybe a little more protein and calories but not a huge difference.

sphinx wrote:

Catman wrote:

Do you have a key meter, i would suggest not since you say that there are four people living in your house, and atleast one must be working?
You wouldn't be on the most expensive tariff.
So when you are suggesting figures over how much it costs to heat or light a one bed flat etc, you don't have a fucking clue, since you live in a three bed semi fucking attatched house!

Yes the Lodger works.

Yes I am on key meters.

I am not suggesting figures for a one bed flat - I am giving you the figures for my house because you accused me of pulling figures out of the air.

It was actually me who was pulling figures out of the air, but I did say I was guessing, and others were free to contradict me if they wanted to.

..just a little bit order in here please!,i can say this on this thread   ::D:: 

Sphinx, I gave you a list of the foods required by people with compromised immune systems. Working that for a man they need 2000 calories a day roughly of that food, with hopefully a range of that food every day and a balance of it over the week, I am sure you can work it out.

And with the diet you came up with, you haven't been living, you have been existing and making yourself deficient in vitamins and minerals so that you end up more ill than you are at the moment, that's nothing to give yourself a pat on the back about. It's certainly not a reason to cross question Phil about Doug's benefits etc. And many HIV patients are being taking off health related benefits and being put on work related benefits, even those who have been sick for a long time and have very nasty symptoms.