Bar owner criticises people who order only water with their meal.

Is she right?

"A BRISTOL bar owner slammed her customers for ordering tap water, warning it's driving pubs and restaurants out of business.
Co-founder of hipster bar Bristol Spirit, Sam Espensen, said 14 customers ordered water last week and believes it's a nationwide problem as bars rely on drink sales to stay alive.
Sam took to Twitter to share her thoughts, saying customers often order food when visiting the bar, but often ask for free tap water instead of spending money on drinks from the menu."


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9157635/bar-owner-bristol-alcohol-drinks-water-pubs/

This was the gist of her now deleted Tweet.

Syl wrote:This was the gist of her now deleted Tweet.

This is REALLY tough!

On the one hand, I sympathise. Pubs are suffering so much in the UK right now, and need and deserve all the help they can get.

At the same time, a lot of people have less money (so much for the success of Tory Britain, thanks Theresa...), and can't afford to drink out often.

I do think though, that any customer is surely better than none? If those 14 customers a week didn't come at all, would the pub be better or worse off? I get that the profit margins will be less, but will there BE profit or not?

The last thing anyone wants to do is put people off my guilting them into also buying a drink if they come. A full place also makes a place seem appealing and brings people in, so maybe those 14 diners do more than she thinks.

This comes from someone who is far from an expert on such matters, of course. If it s actually DETRIMENTAL to business to only eat, then I'd advise people to stay away.

I have worked in pubs/restaurants and there is no doubt the main profit comes from drinks not food.
But it seems unusual for a small eatery to have served over half of the customers in any one week water not other drinks....I wonder if she offers a decent wine list?

Annoying though it may be (and it definately is) maybe she could have gone about this a different way. Making people feel uncomfortable when the object is to relax them and give them a good night out isn't really the way to attract customers.

She can fuck off. If you want people to buy drinks, don't make them so damned overpriced.

The clever way to maintain profits would be to raise each menu item by 10 pence or so, then people won't feel like they're getting ripped off and not come back.

So people who can’t drink for a variety of reasons should stay away? Got it!

Silly cow.

I have noticed over the last few years that most restaurants no longer provide a jug of drinking water and glasses for each diner, it used to be standard practice in some restaurants.
Now if water is offerred with the meal it's either still or sparkling....which is bought not given.

Ben Reilly wrote:She can fuck off. If you want people to buy drinks, don't make them so damned overpriced.

The clever way to maintain profits would be to raise each menu item by 10 pence or so, then people won't feel like they're getting ripped off and not come back.

With the closure rate of pubs in the UK being pretty astronomical (I'd say half of the pubs in my home town at least have closed in the last 10-15 years) I'd say their profit margins are pretty tight as it is.

I really do feel for them. I tend to go to at least one pub every day when I'm over and really enjoy them, but I know that wasn't and wouldn't be the case if I lived there now. Every time I go back I see more places closed.

They are a part of what makes Britain Britain imo. Pubs are every bit a part of British culture as Street Food vendors are to Thai culture and hot dog carts are to New York culture. And they need help.

I certainly don't think the woman's request is the best way to go about improving things - but it does show the desperation

Eilzel wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:She can fuck off. If you want people to buy drinks, don't make them so damned overpriced.

The clever way to maintain profits would be to raise each menu item by 10 pence or so, then people won't feel like they're getting ripped off and not come back.

With the closure rate of pubs in the UK being pretty astronomical (I'd say half of the pubs in my home town at least have closed in the last 10-15 years) I'd say their profit margins are pretty tight as it is.

I really do feel for them. I tend to go to at least one pub every day when I'm over and really enjoy them, but I know that wasn't and wouldn't be the case if I lived there now. Every time I go back I see more places closed.

They are a part of what makes Britain Britain imo. Pubs are every bit a part of British culture as Street Food vendors are to Thai culture and hot dog carts are to New York culture. And they need help.

I certainly don't think the woman's request is the best way to go about improving things - but it does show the desperation  

I love pubs too and miss them a lot, especially for a Sunday roast and some pudding with heaps of custard, and yes they are a cultural British icon, but this is not the way to advertise your business in this day of social m dis. Yes she is desperate but don’t make it worse by castigating already paying customers because they didn’t order what she needs to keep her business going. That’s on her and not them.

Plus in this day of no drinking or driving what else does she expect them to do? Order over priced sugary soft drinks? Or some poncy overpriced special water? Maybe they don’t have a lot of extra money and had saved up for this special occasion.

Sorry but this really irks me. I could understand if she had people leaving without paying or being abusive to staff or breaking up the place but not this.

Britain obviously still has too many pubs and bars,  going by the rate that so many are closing  ???

Most towns over here only have one pub, and maybe a licensed club or two (e.g. sports clubs and RSLs*) if they're large enough..


A neighbouring former-coal mining village near here had over 6000 residents (many 'transient'/contract workers..) during the peak of one mining boom of the late 19th/early 20th century.

At one stage they reportedly had either 14 or 16 watering holes (there were a couple of "half way houses" on the fringes that were probably included by some observers..), comprising several licensed pubs and a few smaller 'backyard' illicit bars..

After a market crash in the early 20th century, most mines closed, permanent workers were 'locked out', riots and strikes ensued, the NSW gov't turned the police on the miners (with the fascist pig police of the day later murdering one miner up near Cessnock..) --  and most coal miners moved on out of the mining towns, looking for work elsewhere.

This neigbouring town dwindled down to less than 200 permanent residents (back up to around 500 or so now..) --  and one pub.. 5' or 600 permanent residents alone probably wouldn't be enough to support a modern day pub -- even then, you will still rely partly on visitors and passing trade..


RSL :  'Returned Services League'  --  Oz's version of the Legionaires/Veterans/Ex-military associations.

There are certain basic bloodlines that are genetically disposed to alcoholism. They would be the Mongols, the Japanese (again, the Mongols), the American Indians (might be the Mongols again), the Slavs...and of course, the Celts.

Any country derived from Britain, also has it...including the US. Although we had a religious intervention--prohibition--it is a problem here.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Britain obviously still has too many pubs and bars,  going by the rate that so many are closing  ???

Most towns over here only have one pub, and maybe a licensed club or two (e.g. sports clubs and RSLs*) if they're large enough..


A neighbouring former-coal mining village near here had over 6000 residents (many 'transient'/contract workers..) during the peak of one mining boom of the late 19th/early 20th century.

At one stage they reportedly had either 14 or 16 watering holes (there were a couple of "half way houses" on the fringes that were probably included by some observers..), comprising several licensed pubs and a few smaller 'backyard' illicit bars..

After a market crash in the early 20th century, most mines closed, permanent workers were 'locked out', riots and strikes ensued, the NSW gov't turned the police on the miners (with the fascist pig police of the day later murdering one miner up near Cessnock..) --  and most coal miners moved on out of the mining towns, looking for work elsewhere.

This neigbouring town dwindled down to less than 200 permanent residents (back up to around 500 or so now..) --  and one pub..   5' or 600 permanent residents alone probably wouldn't be enough to support a modern day pub  --  even then, you will still rely partly on visitors and passing trade..


RSL :  'Returned Services League'  --  Oz's version of the Legionaires/Veterans/Ex-military associations.

Population numbers aren't the issue for British pubs - they've closed as rapidly in towns with growing populations as everywhere else.
And it certainly isn't that people drink less.

There are two main reasons I think this happened.

The first, and less severe impact, was from the smoking ban in ALL public places in around 2006/7. A lot of pubs lost business around that time, when more people smoked, because obviously smokers like to kill themselves two ways at the same time

However, the BIGGEST impact imo has been the massive rise of cheap booze at supermarkets. They sell by the crate at extremely low prices (I've heard some even sell at a loss) in order to get people into THEIR stores.

If you can buy 12 cans for a tenner then why would you go to the pub and spend the same on 2-4 pints (depending on location)?

It is tragic for pubs; and devastating for people's health (now you don't need to go out and socialise, you can just stay on your couch, watch TV AND consume at least twice as much as you might at a pub...).

The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.
Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

Syl wrote:The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.

Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

It really doesn't matter. If she's using her lack of involvement in service of food as a defense to the backlash on her complaints as to people not drinking, then she should assure the public she is not serving food...or shut up about it.

Otherwise, she's being hypocritical: if she allows food service, quit complaining about people who order food! It's a free country over there, FCS.

I live out in the sticks but with a motorway and several major A roads nearby.

Our village pub, a delightful 17th century former coaching inn, is having a damn hard time at the moment, but the landlady primarily blames the tight drink laws and the proximity of more than our fair share of roving traffic police, together with the fact that it has traditionally been a popular watering hole serving a number of outlying villages and driving is the only option as public transport is non-existent and taxis are eye-wateringly pricey.

Yes.  Stricter driving prosecutions reveals to us how many people were previously driving drunk on the streets.

The landlady is probably right: it's a business that raises the propriety of the product.

It's like a shooting range, and allowing customers to drive home, shooting their guns out the windows.

Original Quill wrote:Yes.  Stricter driving prosecutions reveals to us how many people were previously driving drunk on the streets.

The landlady is probably right: it's a business that raises the propriety of the product.

It's like a shooting range, and allowing customers to drive home, shooting their guns out the windows.

Oh, I'm not criticising the strictness of drink-driving laws or the zealotry of the police in enforcing them...my own father was killed in a Christmas Eve road accident in which the other driver was pissed out of his head.

But it does show that the licensed trade has many difficult factors other than serving tap water to contend with these days.

As an aside, a neighbouring farmer, who is even more ancient than I am, is still dining out on the story of how he was caught by the village bobby "driving" his horse and trap while under the influence of alcohol, having sunk a copious amount of strong ale at the aforesaid village pub.

The magistrate let him off with a fine of only ten bob (fifty pence in today's money) because His worship was impressed by the farmer's plea of mitigation that the horse knew its own way home and that he had made sure that no-one had slipped the nag a crafty pint of Olde Gruntfuttock's XXXX before it began its return journey.

At least that's what he tells us.......

Same thing happened to our old pub, it had been there for hundreds of years, the village was on a drovers way and originally had 8 houses/cottages and 5 pubs. The last remaining one had been used as a magistrates court and higher court for the area at one time long ago. the area between that pub and the church used to be a village green used for weekly markets. The pub was demolished and houses built, no one lives in them to this day. The last landlord was determined to knock it down and sadly, try as we did, he succeeded, it wasn't listed. It was a great old place, old beams nooks and crannies and stone stairs within the walls, it was a good evening out as well, locals farmers, people from the surrounding villages and further, that said the traffic was minimal on that particular road at the time, especially at night, now you take your life in your hands if you try and cross the road. There were until the 80's buses both ways through the village at 10:30pm so you could have a drink and get home without driving.
As Fred says taxi prices are expensive.

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.

Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

It really doesn't matter.  If she's using her lack of involvement in service of food as a defense to the backlash on her complaints as to people not drinking, then she should assure the public she is not serving food...or shut up about it.

Otherwise, she's being hypocritical: if she allows food service, quit complaining about people who order food!  It's a free country over there, FCS.

I agree Quill. If she has little to do with the food that's her choice, and a bad one imo.
The majority of people go to bars, pubs and restaurants and expect food....not so many people go out just to drink nowadays, and why should they when alcohol is a fraction of the price to buy in supermarkets.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Yes.  Stricter driving prosecutions reveals to us how many people were previously driving drunk on the streets.

The landlady is probably right: it's a business that raises the propriety of the product.

It's like a shooting range, and allowing customers to drive home, shooting their guns out the windows.

Oh, I'm not criticising the strictness of drink-driving laws or the zealotry of the police in enforcing them...my own father was killed in a Christmas Eve road accident in which the other driver was pissed out of his head.

But it does show that the licensed trade has many difficult factors other than serving tap water to contend with these days.

As an aside, a neighbouring farmer, who is even more ancient than I am, is still dining out on the story of how he was caught by the village bobby "driving" his horse and trap while under the influence of alcohol, having sunk a copious amount of strong ale at the aforesaid village pub.

The magistrate let him off with a fine of only ten bob (fifty pence in today's money) because His worship was impressed by the farmer's plea of mitigation that the horse knew its own way home and that he had made sure that no-one had slipped the nag a crafty pint of Olde Gruntfuttock's XXXX before it began its return journey.

At least that's what he tells us.......

That's a funny story.  When I was really young, I lived in Abington, PA, just north of Philadelphia.  Every day around 5 pm, an old black man drove a single horse buckboard up Old York Road, and stopped at the Tavern on Woodland Rd.

He always used the same excuse: S'long as the horse don't come in, we's able ta does jus fine.

Seems to be a lot of drunk in charge of a horse about or at least some years ago, a farmer used to ride his horse to the pub and tether it outside, there were still the original rings attached to the walls exactly for this. He would get rather drunk and a couple of people needed to help him up into the saddle. How he stayed on I don't know although he did end up with his head on the horses neck, the horse would walk carefully off to deliver him back home where his wife would help him down and get him inside, then she'd sort out the horse, who had already gone into the stable by then.

I drink water with most meals. Drinking establishments are doing fine here. I live in an urban area and Uber seems to have fixed the getting drunk and getting home problem.

I think the state of the economy is what makes a bigger difference for these type establishments. North Texas is blowing and going and so are drinking establishments. I would imagine trying to run a bar in Cleveland would be tough right now. People kust can't afford to drink out in public, so they stay home and drink.

My seven year old daughter only likes water. What should I do, order her a juice just to satisfy people like this stupid cow?

I used to work in a country pub, all the food was home cooked, the Italian chef used to make great pizza's, big enough for two to share.
He got sick of this and told us to add a surcharge for the extra plate.
I refused, most people ordered salad and a drink to go with their half pizza anyway.
Sometimes greed can get in the way of good customer relations.

Syl wrote:Is she right?

"A BRISTOL bar owner slammed her customers for ordering tap water, warning it's driving pubs and restaurants out of business.
Co-founder of hipster bar Bristol Spirit, Sam Espensen, said 14 customers ordered water last week and believes it's a nationwide problem as bars rely on drink sales to stay alive.
Sam took to Twitter to share her thoughts, saying customers often order food when visiting the bar, but often ask for free tap water instead of spending money on drinks from the menu."


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9157635/bar-owner-bristol-alcohol-drinks-water-pubs/

You should get water free at table anyway. The better restaurants do this. If someone eats at your bar/pub stop bellyaching. You're lucky they even give you that custom.

Syl wrote:The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.
Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

Well, she needs to either stop trading this way, or just run a bar.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.
Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

Well, she needs to either stop trading this way, or just run a bar.

Yes I agree. It sounds like an odd way to run a business. Sounds like she is renting her premises out so other people are making the profit.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:The bar owner claims she runs a bar not a restaurant....so presumably she hires her premises out to these 'pop up' caterers who then cook food in her place, and pay her a fee for the hire of the kitchen, tables, staff etc.
Not sure if that's how it works. I dont personally know of any places run like that....and it sounds like a bad business deal to me.

But if that's the case she would need to up her rental charges plus sell more drinks if that's her main source of income.

Well, she needs to either stop trading this way, or just run a bar.

+1

My bet is with the negative publicity she has received by engaging mouth before brain, it shouldn’t be too long before the first part of your comment occurs.