What a "snowflake" REALLY is -- according to the Good Men Project

by Ben Reilly Fri May 24, 2019 11:36 pm

I fucking love this.

A snowflake is someone who is afraid of their feelings. Loyalty to the Cult of Machismo means strict adherence to an artificially narrow set of expectations. The stress of walking that tightrope is killing us. There’s a fallacy floating around that the “nu-male” must be a weak-willed, constantly weeping mess. This is a negative myth perpetuated by the cult. No one is expecting you to become a blubbering mess with no ability to control your emotions. Actually, it’s about learning to accept and integrate all your emotions into your everyday life so you can be more human, not some half-human creature that self-handicaps your feelings. You don’t have to constantly talk about your feelings if you don’t want to, but you should at least be free to exercise that option.

A snowflake is someone who thinks showing vulnerability equals weakness. A real man knows it’s okay to ask for help. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn’t have your best interest in mind. Don’t be just another tool propping up the crumbling edifice of the macho male stereotype. Don’t just tell your friends and family “I’m fine” when you’re feeling like shit about yourself. That way lies madness, literally.

A snowflake is someone who gets angry over the tiniest perceived slights. Having a hair-trigger temper doesn’t make you tough. It actually means your masculinity is as brittle as cracked glass. Reject the Cult of Machismo’s bullshit rule that other men are potential enemies. You don’t have to be on edge all the time.

A snowflake is someone who is afraid there’s a “war on men.” Women, immigrants, and other scapegoats aren’t coming to emasculate you. In a masterful use of misdirection that would make Machiavelli jealous, the Cult of Machismo has blinded you to the truth: we men can be our own worst enemies. Let go of the war mentality you’ve been fed, and use that energy to create a better view of yourself and the world.

How does one avoid becoming a real snowflake? If we want to be better men, then we must focus on creating better manhood. We must refuse to walk the narrow, twisting tightrope of shallow masculine expectations. You’re a goddamn human being, not an automaton only built for competition, domination, and violence. Take back your humanity, and be a real man.

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/dont-be-a-snowflake/

There's nothing manly and tough about being too afraid to be seen as anything other than a stereotype of manly and tough. Nor is there anything manly or tough about being so afraid of people who aren't like you that you turn into a shrieking Internet hate-demon.

by eddie Fri May 24, 2019 11:37 pm

“A snowflake is someone who gets angry over the tiniest perceived slights. Having a hair-trigger temper doesn’t make you tough. It actually means your masculinity is as brittle as cracked glass. Reject the Cult of Machismo’s bullshit rule that other men are potential enemies. You don’t have to be on edge all the time.“

I love this one.

by Guest Fri May 24, 2019 11:47 pm

I am sure this would fit into your mentality of sterotypes in order to make your own insecurities make you feel better about yourself

wow

If you feel better about said sterotypes, what does that say about your own self esteem?

When two people need to feel self worth of others. What does that say about the characters of those people?

At least I listen to people and am glad I do. I hope to think its made me a better person.

Imagine someone posted a similar thread based on race and claimed what a black person really is. Or a homosexual person really is. This is why I have no time for people so shallow its beyond belief

If anyone wants to keep in touch with me

Here is my email

phildidge@gmail.com

All the best people

by Ben Reilly Fri May 24, 2019 11:53 pm

Didge, your post really made no sense. I could easily see someone like, say, Bill Cosby writing a column addressed to black men that would say something along the lines of, don't feel like you're not a real black man if you don't fit the definition forced on you by society.

I have read columns by gay men exploring the issue of why some gay men behave more like the stereotype of the flamboyant, "swishy" gay man while others don't.

by eddie Fri May 24, 2019 11:55 pm

Ah now there’s no point in replying. He has left!

Again.

by Guest Fri May 24, 2019 11:57 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Didge, your post really made no sense. I could easily see someone like, say, Bill Cosby writing a column addressed to black men that would say something along the lines of, don't feel like you're not a real black man if you don't fit the definition forced on you by society.

I have read columns by gay men exploring the issue of why some gay men behave more like the stereotype of the flamboyant, "swishy" gay man while others don't.

My post make perfect sense

You are simple closeminded

You chose sterotypes of people

If this was used based groups that suffer prejudice, you would never mae such a claim, would you?

I am simple showing up how the warped minded left minded people are at this, but if someone made a view based on other beliefs, say Democrat. You would know doubt take offense

Go figure

by Guest Sat May 25, 2019 12:00 am

eddie wrote:Ah now there’s no point in replying. He has left!

Again.

There you go again, authoritarianism

I am leaving Eddie, because of you and only you, not Ben

This is only on you

I trusted you as a friend and am leaving, but will say my peace

by Ben Reilly Sat May 25, 2019 12:00 am

phildidge wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:Didge, your post really made no sense. I could easily see someone like, say, Bill Cosby writing a column addressed to black men that would say something along the lines of, don't feel like you're not a real black man if you don't fit the definition forced on you by society.

I have read columns by gay men exploring the issue of why some gay men behave more like the stereotype of the flamboyant, "swishy" gay man while others don't.

My post make perfect sense

You are simple closeminded

You chose sterotypes of people

If this was used based groups that suffer prejudice, you would never mae such a claim, would you?

I am simple showing up how the warped minded left minded people are at this, but if someone made a view based on other beliefs, say Democrat. You would know doubt take offense

Go figure

If someone wrote a column like this one, where they were saying to be yourself and don't bend to pressure to be any certain way, I'd have no problem with it.

Your problem is that you don't read before you start arguing. You simply don't read. You apparently didn't even read the part on the other thread where you said you were flouncing!

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 12:01 am

phildidge wrote:
eddie wrote:Ah now there’s no point in replying. He has left!

Again.

There you go again, authoritarianism

I am leaving Eddie, because of you and only you, not Ben

This is only on you

I trusted you as a friend and am leaving, but will say my peace

Ah okay. See you soon then.

by Guest Sat May 25, 2019 12:05 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
phildidge wrote:

My post make perfect sense

You are simple closeminded

You chose sterotypes of people

If this was used based groups that suffer prejudice, you would never mae such a claim, would you?

I am simple showing up how the warped minded left minded people are at this, but if someone made a view based on other beliefs, say Democrat. You would know doubt take offense

Go figure

If someone wrote a column like this one, where they were saying to be yourself and don't bend to pressure to be any certain way, I'd have no problem with it.

Your problem is that you don't read before you start arguing. You simply don't read. You apparently didn't even read the part on the other thread where you said you were flouncing!

Well being as you find it funny how sterotypes are basically tribal in nature to define people. Which can be usaed against you , based on your beliefs. What was actually funny here? When we should be seeking a view to unite people with dividing views?

The problem with you Ben, is your are about the most hypocriitical person I have met

Hence the point I made on discrimination

You think its fine to do, based on views and aspects you disagree with

Exactly what was positive about this thread?

Was it done from the context to be postive or hateful?

Take your time. You may need to actually go back to school I guess to realise this basic concept

by Guest Sat May 25, 2019 12:14 am

eddie wrote:
phildidge wrote:

There you go again, authoritarianism

I am leaving Eddie, because of you and only you, not Ben

This is only on you

I trusted you as a friend and am leaving, but will say my peace

Ah okay. See you soon then.

No you wont eddie

This is my last night and this is all down to you

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 12:15 am

Okay. I take full responsibility for YOUR actions.

Okay? It’s all my fault about how YOU decide to react.

by Guest Sat May 25, 2019 12:17 am

eddie wrote:Okay. I take full responsibility for YOUR actions.

Okay? It’s all my fault about how YOU decide to react.

How about taking responsibility for your actions?

You see how you costantly pass blame?

You never conetmplate you might be wrong

You see me as the problem

Go figure

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 12:20 am

When did I ever say I didn’t? You’re blaming your actions on someone else...no?

Anyway, I guess you really need to go now as you’ve been saying it for over an hour, so I won’t keep you.

by Guest Sat May 25, 2019 12:37 am

eddie wrote:When did I ever say I didn’t? You’re blaming your actions on someone else...no?

Anyway, I guess you really need to go now as you’ve been saying it for over an hour, so I won’t keep you.

How badly are you not listening now Eddie?

This shows you are not willing to listen and relying on Ben giving you greeens

So are you willing to listen or be closeminded?

by nicko Sat May 25, 2019 5:55 am

In out, in out , shake it all about, FFS !

by Cass Sat May 25, 2019 6:07 am

Ben Reilly wrote:I fucking love this.

A snowflake is someone who is afraid of their feelings. Loyalty to the Cult of Machismo means strict adherence to an artificially narrow set of expectations. The stress of walking that tightrope is killing us. There’s a fallacy floating around that the “nu-male” must be a weak-willed, constantly weeping mess. This is a negative myth perpetuated by the cult. No one is expecting you to become a blubbering mess with no ability to control your emotions. Actually, it’s about learning to accept and integrate all your emotions into your everyday life so you can be more human, not some half-human creature that self-handicaps your feelings. You don’t have to constantly talk about your feelings if you don’t want to, but you should at least be free to exercise that option.

A snowflake is someone who thinks showing vulnerability equals weakness. A real man knows it’s okay to ask for help. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn’t have your best interest in mind. Don’t be just another tool propping up the crumbling edifice of the macho male stereotype. Don’t just tell your friends and family “I’m fine” when you’re feeling like shit about yourself. That way lies madness, literally.

A snowflake is someone who gets angry over the tiniest perceived slights. Having a hair-trigger temper doesn’t make you tough. It actually means your masculinity is as brittle as cracked glass. Reject the Cult of Machismo’s bullshit rule that other men are potential enemies. You don’t have to be on edge all the time.

A snowflake is someone who is afraid there’s a “war on men.” Women, immigrants, and other scapegoats aren’t coming to emasculate you. In a masterful use of misdirection that would make Machiavelli jealous, the Cult of Machismo has blinded you to the truth: we men can be our own worst enemies. Let go of the war mentality you’ve been fed, and use that energy to create a better view of yourself and the world.

How does one avoid becoming a real snowflake? If we want to be better men, then we must focus on creating better manhood. We must refuse to walk the narrow, twisting tightrope of shallow masculine expectations. You’re a goddamn human being, not an automaton only built for competition, domination, and violence. Take back your humanity, and be a real man.

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/dont-be-a-snowflake/

There's nothing manly and tough about being too afraid to be seen as anything other than a stereotype of manly and tough. Nor is there anything manly or tough about being so afraid of people who aren't like you that you turn into a shrieking Internet hate-demon.

Brilliant piece. Thanks for sharing. I’m sending it to a few people.

Seriously I always thought a snowflake was an individual piece of nature, one of a kind, here for a short time so enjoy it.

by gelico Sat May 25, 2019 4:47 pm

phildidge wrote:
eddie wrote:

Ah okay. See you soon then.

No you wont eddie

This is my last night and this is all down to you

hey didge

what's up?

by Andy Sat May 25, 2019 5:03 pm

Another F L O U N C E .

by Maddog Sat May 25, 2019 5:33 pm

Snowflake
A term for someone that thinks they are unique and special, but really are not. It gained popularity after the movie "Fight Club" from the quote “You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."

Began being used extensively as a putdown for someone, usually on the political left, who is easily offended or felt they needed a "safe space" away from the harsh realities of the world, but now has morphed into a general putdown for anyone that complains about any subject.

It didn't need a new definition. It already had one.

by Original Quill Sat May 25, 2019 7:59 pm

"Snowflake" has as much to say about the speaker (or caller) as it does about the person spoken to.

It says: You are weak and pretentious, while I am far superior (insert phrase: tougher, meaner, more aware, smarter, etc.). It's a 'put-down' by reflexive reference.

Once the context is understood it has meaning.

by Maddog Sat May 25, 2019 9:21 pm

Original Quill wrote:"Snowflake" has as much to say about the speaker (or caller) as it does about the person spoken to.

It says: You are weak and pretentious, while I am far superior (insert phrase: tougher, meaner, more aware, smarter, etc.). It's a 'put-down' by reflexive reference.

Once the context is understood it has meaning.

It usually means the speaker finds you whiney.

The speaker can be wrong, but in many cases they are right.

People whine more than they used to.

I guess it's a new form of being woke.

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 9:33 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:"Snowflake" has as much to say about the speaker (or caller) as it does about the person spoken to.

It says: You are weak and pretentious, while I am far superior (insert phrase: tougher, meaner, more aware, smarter, etc.). It's a 'put-down' by reflexive reference.

Once the context is understood it has meaning.

It usually means the speaker finds you whiney.

The speaker can be wrong, but in many cases they are right.

People whine more than they used to.

I guess it's a new form of being woke.

People nowadays love being offended. They live for it.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 25, 2019 10:11 pm

What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 10:23 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

But words are also becoming overused and misused.

by Cass Sat May 25, 2019 10:52 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

True

by Cass Sat May 25, 2019 10:52 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

But words are also becoming overused and misused.

Also true

by Maddog Sat May 25, 2019 10:55 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

They are pointing out what the perceive to be as a problem.

Or whining as I call it.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 25, 2019 11:10 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

They are pointing out what the perceive to be as a problem.

Or whining as I call it.

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

by Maddog Sat May 25, 2019 11:19 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They are pointing out what the perceive to be as a problem.

Or whining as I call it.

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 25, 2019 11:29 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They are pointing out what the perceive to be as a problem.

Or whining as I call it.

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

I don't think that works, really, or is natural human behavior. People communicate more with one another than any other living thing does. It's the one thing that sets us apart, actually.

The founders of America certainly believed in "whining," for one example. They didn't want to be ruled by a tyrannical government, and they wrote hundreds of pages worth of "whining" about how the British government treated them.

They also believed in the marketplace of ideas, in which ideas competed with one another and the best ideas won out. You can't have a marketplace of ideas if you ban from the market what one person or set of people might consider "whining."

If we banned whining on NF, I could easily pull you up for whining about whining. It's a road you don't want to go down if you believe in free expression.

by eddie Sat May 25, 2019 11:36 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

They are pointing out what the perceive to be as a problem.

Or whining as I call it.

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

I agree with your last sentence totally.

by Syl Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 am

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

I had to log back in to say.... alien

by Eilzel Sun May 26, 2019 2:32 am

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:

Yeah, but I'm sure you see what I'm saying -- real problems that actually exist, such as racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which I'm sure you don't like any more than the average person, can more easily be hand-waved away by people who'd prefer to pretend they don't exist when the hand-wavers can lump the ridiculous whiners into the same group as the people talking about real problems.

It's basic intellectual dishonesty, like saying Rod Blagoyevich is a typical Democrat, or that Steve King is a typical Republican.

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

I had to log back in to say....

I only half agree. Partly because what constitues 'whining' is highly subjective.

Whining about not getting what you want is whining.
Whining about not getting special treatment is whining.

But whining about real discrimination is not what I'd refer to as whining.

Should people do something about sexism, racism or homophobia when they witness it? Of course they should.
Is it also a decent think to speak out often against these things is public places (inc. the internet)?
Yes, I'd say so. Is that whining? I don't think so.

If that wears people out, people need to priorotise what real problems are Wink

by Maddog Sun May 26, 2019 2:39 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

I tend to equate people talking about real problems, with virtue signaling.

If you see another human being treated unfairly, do something about it. But the daily bombardment of whining wears me out.

I don't think that works, really, or is natural human behavior. People communicate more with one another than any other living thing does. It's the one thing that sets us apart, actually.

The founders of America certainly believed in "whining," for one example. They didn't want to be ruled by a tyrannical government, and they wrote hundreds of pages worth of "whining" about how the British government treated them.

They also believed in the marketplace of ideas, in which ideas competed with one another and the best ideas won out. You can't have a marketplace of ideas if you ban from the market what one person or set of people might consider "whining."

If we banned whining on NF, I could easily pull you up for whining about whining. It's a road you don't want to go down if you believe in free expression.

I'm not talking about banning anything.

Just don't expect attaboys from me every time someone accuses someone else of some sort of "ism".

I guess I'm asking for more tolerance in the world. Tolerence does not mean you approve or condone, but accept that fact that people have different lifestyles and beliefs.

Far too many "activists" think their intolerance makes them virtuous because everyone should feel like they do about things.

by eddie Sun May 26, 2019 2:41 am

I agree with you Les, when you see a real problem then you should speak out but some people have become so highly sensitive to almost anything and everything that they find “offensive” that they “spoil” highlighting the real problems in the world.

Have you ever seen “Humanity” the stand-up show by Ricky Gervais? He tackles this very subject really well.
If you haven’t seen it, go and watch it. I think you’ll like it.

by Eilzel Sun May 26, 2019 2:45 am

eddie wrote:I agree with you Les, when you see a real problem then you should speak out but some people have become so highly sensitive to almost anything and everything that they find “offensive” that they “spoil” highlighting the real problems in the world.

Have you ever seen “Humanity” the stand-up show by Ricky Gervais? He tackles this very subject really well.
If you haven’t seen it, go and watch it. I think you’ll like it.

I'll admit some are over offended, and some unjustly offended (fat acceptance for instance). But I'm dubious when people criticise 'virtue signalling' for example, because then it suggests even speaking against the 'isms' is somehow a bad thing.

As to Gervais, Politics, Animals, Fame and Science are my favourite stand up shows EVER, he's a comedy god. So I'll definitely be giving Humanity a watch. Cheers Smile

by Maddog Sun May 26, 2019 2:47 am

Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:

I had to log back in to say....

I only half agree. Partly because what constitues 'whining' is highly subjective.

Whining about not getting what you want is whining.
Whining about not getting special treatment is whining.

But whining about real discrimination is not what I'd refer to as whining.

Should people do something about sexism, racism or homophobia when they witness it? Of course they should.
Is it also a decent think to speak out often against these things is public places (inc. the internet)?
Yes, I'd say so. Is that whining? I don't think so.

If that wears people out, people need to priorotise what real problems are

Real problems are people actually harming you. Pol Pot killing 6 million Cambodians was a real problem for those people.

Two old Christian ladies thinking you will rot in hell for being gay is not really a problem for you. It may irritate you, but unless they do something, I don't think it's going to impact your life.

If folks scream homophobic slurs at you. You, or I should react. But I think of that as threatening behavior, which is different than a belief.

by Eilzel Sun May 26, 2019 2:50 am

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:

I had to log back in to say....

I only half agree. Partly because what constitues 'whining' is highly subjective.

Whining about not getting what you want is whining.
Whining about not getting special treatment is whining.

But whining about real discrimination is not what I'd refer to as whining.

Should people do something about sexism, racism or homophobia when they witness it? Of course they should.
Is it also a decent think to speak out often against these things is public places (inc. the internet)?
Yes, I'd say so. Is that whining? I don't think so.

If that wears people out, people need to priorotise what real problems are

Real problems are people actually harming you. Pol Pot killing 6 million Cambodians was a real problem for those people.

Two old Christian ladies thinking you will rot in hell for being gay is not really a problem for you. It may irritate you, but unless they do something, I don't think it's going to impact your life.

If folks scream homophobic slurs at you. You, or I should react. But I think of that as threatening behavior, which is different than a belief.

Your example isn't really the kind of thing people fight against, though. The problem is when they do something (for instance, reject their gay offspring).

by Maddog Sun May 26, 2019 3:08 am

Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Real problems are people actually harming you. Pol Pot killing 6 million Cambodians was a real problem for those people.

Two old Christian ladies thinking you will rot in hell for being gay is not really a problem for you. It may irritate you, but unless they do something, I don't think it's going to impact your life.

If folks scream homophobic slurs at you. You, or I should react. But I think of that as threatening behavior, which is different than a belief.

Your example isn't really the kind of thing people fight against, though. The problem is when they do something (for instance, reject their gay offspring).

There are millions of Americans that would tell you that your lifestyle is wrong, but they love you, just not your sin.

Those people are generally attacked if they make that position publicly known. Their attackers are quite proud of their actions, because they are stomping out the hateful homophobes. They feel they are virtuous in their actions.

The guy I work with has a gay daughter. It's not mentioned. It's like a weird secret that everyone knows about. It's almost like the old "don't ask, don't tell" position of the US military. However, they have a good relationship, even though it's sort of fake. I know that many would say that she should confront her father and set him straight. They have found a way to tolerate each other's positions and make it work. Tolerance will do that.

I need to run. Y'all behave and be nice to each other. Wink

by Eilzel Sun May 26, 2019 3:19 am

Maddog wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Real problems are people actually harming you. Pol Pot killing 6 million Cambodians was a real problem for those people.

Two old Christian ladies thinking you will rot in hell for being gay is not really a problem for you. It may irritate you, but unless they do something, I don't think it's going to impact your life.

If folks scream homophobic slurs at you. You, or I should react. But I think of that as threatening behavior, which is different than a belief.

Your example isn't really the kind of thing people fight against, though. The problem is when they do something (for instance, reject their gay offspring).

There are millions of Americans that would tell you that your lifestyle is wrong, but they love you, just not your sin.

Those people are generally attacked if they make that position publicly known. Their attackers are quite proud of their actions, because they are stomping out the hateful homophobes. They feel they are virtuous in their actions.

The guy I work with has a gay daughter. It's not mentioned. It's like a weird secret that everyone knows about. It's almost like the old "don't ask, don't tell" position of the US military. However, they have a good relationship, even though it's sort of fake. I know that many would say that she should confront her father and set him straight. They have found a way to tolerate each other's positions and make it work. Tolerance will do that.

I need to run. Y'all behave and be nice to each other.

See, to someone with little interest in the concerns of others (and I'm not saying YOU are like that, but this is a trait more common on the Right, where self-interests are king), THAT sounds like a wonderful 'everybody wins' scenario. But that is BS, and it is really just an uncomfortable compromise.

For the father, he KNOWS what his daughter is up to in her private life and doesn't like it. In my experience, it is those who oppose the gay lifestyle who think the most about it (ewwwww, people do that? It's icky AND against GOD!), so he is almost certainly going to think about it sometimes, and won't like it.

For the daughter, she knows her father is never going to accept her love life and that IS going to affect how close they can ever really be. To use myself as an example, my parents love my husband (who is also of a different ethnicity) like a son. The sweetest thing anyone said to us was from my uncle who told us on our wedding day that he knew my husband was family the moment they met him - just knew it.

The daughter in your story will never have that, unless her family suddenly changes (always a possibility btw, that's WHY people like me will 'whine' about those who oppose our 'lifestyle' because WE want EVERYONE to have the kind of love and acceptance that I and others have).

For both father and daughter they tolerate (an awful word sometimes) each other - but that will never be close to ideal.

by eddie Sun May 26, 2019 5:31 am

Eilzel wrote:
eddie wrote:I agree with you Les, when you see a real problem then you should speak out but some people have become so highly sensitive to almost anything and everything that they find “offensive” that they “spoil” highlighting the real problems in the world.

Have you ever seen “Humanity” the stand-up show by Ricky Gervais? He tackles this very subject really well.
If you haven’t seen it, go and watch it. I think you’ll like it.

I'll admit some are over offended, and some unjustly offended (fat acceptance for instance). But I'm dubious when people criticise 'virtue signalling' for example, because then it suggests even speaking against the 'isms' is somehow a bad thing.

As to Gervais, Politics, Animals, Fame and Science are my favourite stand up shows EVER, he's a comedy god. So I'll definitely be giving Humanity a watch. Cheers

Can’t disagree with your post actually.

And...well. We have the same God.

All hail Gervais!

Hope you enjoy it. Wink

by Syl Sun May 26, 2019 12:25 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Syl wrote:

I had to log back in to say....

I only half agree. Partly because what constitues 'whining' is highly subjective.

Whining about not getting what you want is whining.
Whining about not getting special treatment is whining.

But whining about real discrimination is not what I'd refer to as whining.

Should people do something about sexism, racism or homophobia when they witness it? Of course they should.
Is it also a decent think to speak out often against these things is public places (inc. the internet)?
Yes, I'd say so. Is that whining? I don't think so.

If that wears people out, people need to priorotise what real problems are

I dont think speaking out against any cause if it's close to your heart is whining, what I do object to is people who sit and complain about things they would do nothing about if they witnessed them in real life.

The internet holds some blame for this....ANYONE can sit down and type out the biggest load of indignatious crap on a daily basis....read any forum you like, it'll be there in abundance, but I wager those same people would likely look the other way if they saw an act of unfairness being carried out to someone else in the street.

by Original Quill Sun May 26, 2019 6:20 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What's sad is how much more attention people pay to the "whiners," to the exclusion of people who are pointing out real problems in society. I'm sure it makes some people believe that racism, sexism, etc. just doesn't exist.

But the ultimate whiner got elected president. So, maybe there's something to their tactic.

by 'Wolfie Mon May 27, 2019 8:32 am

Snowflake : noun --

Soft, cold and wet;

adj. -- melts, and runs to water easily and quickly, when some heat is applied..

While a good description of anyone who whines and whinges to excess, it has laughingly been misappropriated by far-right-wing idealogues to attack any left-leaning complainants.

Despite the fact that the worse snowflakes around are nearly always those whining right-whingers !

Prime examples : nicko, Victor, smelly', TDYK, Tommy Monk, gelico, vintage, Raggamuffin...

tongue

by nicko Mon May 27, 2019 8:43 am

That's more than half the posters here, don't you think you'v made a prat of yourself ?

by Syl Mon May 27, 2019 12:57 pm

nicko wrote:That's more than half the posters here, don't you think you'v made a prat of yourself ?

And the irony is he is the biggest snowflake on here. Razz

by nicko Mon May 27, 2019 4:31 pm

by Andy Mon May 27, 2019 6:38 pm

As an aside, did anyone else see that horrendous post by Major Stormbold on Raggs forum, which it seems she is happy for it to remain?

It was beyond disgusting.

Easy to see why he has been banned from nearly every forum he has been a member of. Apart from Raggs extreme far right supporting den of iniquity..

by eddie Mon May 27, 2019 8:13 pm

Andy wrote:As an aside, did anyone else see that horrendous post by Major Stormbold on Raggs forum, which it seems she is happy for it to remain?

It was beyond disgusting.

Easy to see why he has been banned from nearly every forum he has been a member of. Apart from Raggs extreme far right supporting den of iniquity..

I thought The Devil You Know said he’d died?

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