One nurse a week commited suicide in the UK.

First topic message reminder :

What a sad and shocking state of affairs. We as a country do a really crap job in caring for the people who devote their lives caring for us, be  they NHS nurses, home carers, or family members caring for the increasingly ageing population.



"More than 300 nurses have taken their own lives in just seven years, shocking new figures reveal.
During the worst year, one was committing suicide EVERY WEEK as Tory cuts began to bite deep into the NHS.
Today victims’ families call for vital early mental health training and support for young nurses – and an end to a “bullying and toxic culture” in the health service which leaves them afraid to ask for help in their darkest moments.
One mum – whose trainee nurse daughter Lucy de Oliveira killed herself while juggling other jobs to make ends meet – told us: “They’re working all hours God sends doing a really important job. Most of them would be better off working in McDonald’s. That can’t be right.”


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-300-overworked-nhs-nurses-14822382

so what???

men kill themsleves at a far greater rate than one a week

In 2017, there were 4,383 male suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45407487

so wind your fucking tits in

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
Also, what may work in one country may not always work in another.
I do know the NHS has worked for us in the UK for over 70 years, It needs looking at now, obviously there are reasons why it's failing, but I think it would be a big mistake to end it.

Well the NHS has not worked in this country for years

Long waiting times, poor health care, lower survival rates compared to other countries

Yet billions are continually pumped into a system that continualy is unworkable

Its long overdue it was scrapped

And yet you fail to show anything it could be replaced with.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

If you dont know, then I suggest, not bothering to make claims on this

Men and women both can bottle up things

Its not a male or female trait but a human trait

I probably know more than you Didge, on account of I keep my eyes and ears open instead of my gob all the time.

You tend to live and learn better if you admit from the start that you dont know everything.

I have worked in the NHS for years previously

I never have claimed to know everything, but my experince in the NHS has me with experince and knowledge in the medical field

Maybe you should listen for once to someone who has far more knowledge and experince on this than you

Go firgure

smelly-bandit wrote:so what???

men kill themsleves at a far greater rate than one a week

In 2017, there were 4,383 male suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45407487

so wind your fucking tits in

Men...as opposed to nurses, thats a bit of an uneven playing field.

Syl wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:so what???

men kill themsleves at a far greater rate than one a week

In 2017, there were 4,383 male suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45407487

so wind your fucking tits in

Men...as opposed to nurses, thats a bit of an uneven playing field.

what an outdated sexist idea that men cant be nurses

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Well the NHS has not worked in this country for years

Long waiting times, poor health care, lower survival rates compared to other countries

Yet billions are continually pumped into a system that continualy is unworkable

Its long overdue it was scrapped

And yet you fail to show anything it could be replaced with.

I have told you many times and given examples

You are clearly too lazy to look up yourself

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
I probably know more than you Didge, on account of I keep my eyes and ears open instead of my gob all the time.

You tend to live and learn better if you admit from the start that you dont know everything.

I have worked in the NHS for years previously

I never have claimed to know everything, but my experince in the NHS has me with experince and knowledge in the medical field

Maybe you should listen to once to someone who has far more knowledge and experince on this than you

Go firgure

1.3 million people work in the NHS in the UK, it doesn't follow that they are all experts in mental health.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I have worked in the NHS for years previously

I never have claimed to know everything, but my experince in the NHS has me with experince and knowledge in the medical field

Maybe you should listen to once to someone who has far more knowledge and experince on this than you

Go firgure

1.3 million people work in the NHS in the UK, it doesn't follow that they are all experts in mental health.

I never claimed to be an expert in mental health.

You started to claim why men committed suicide

That was you, not me

Go figure

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
And yet you fail to show anything it could be replaced with.

I have told you many times and given examples

You are clearly too lazy to look up yourself

As I thought.....you have no idea.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I have told you many times and given examples

You are clearly too lazy to look up yourself

As I thought.....you have no idea.

I have a very good idea, what systems they use

I am trying to help you get off your butt and do some research yourself

I mean do you seriously want me to put soime links up for you, being that you are that lazy?

Here you go lazy, just some of the ones I mentioned

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Norway

https://www.denverpost.com/2009/09/03/health-care-in-denmark/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Iceland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Sweden

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
1.3 million people work in the NHS in the UK, it doesn't follow that they are all experts in mental health.

I never claimed to be an expert in mental health.

You started to claim why men committed suicide

That was you, not me

Go figure

I said one reason....obviously there are many reasons why men commit suicide.

You claim to have experience and Knowledge because you worked in the NHS.
You could have been a porter, a chiropodist or the man who takes the newspapers round  for all I know, that gives you as much knowledge of mental health as the rest of us.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

He can't tell you - I've asked him before.

It's not so different from the UK system in those countries he mentioned. They probably invest more money in their health systems.

Also, what may work in one country may not always work in another.
I do know the NHS has worked for us in the UK for over 70 years, It needs looking at now, obviously there are reasons why it's failing, but I think it would be a big mistake to end it.

I don't think it's failing. As shown by the story in another thread, the ambulance service is for those who actually need an ambulance, it's not for those for those who need a lift to a hospital. It can be difficult to get a GP appointment, but it's not impossible, and if it's an emergency they will see you. People do have to go quite a long way to a hospital these days, but if they have bad health they could always move a bit nearer to one.

I think the main problem is people going to the doctor for silly reasons - like a viral infection, for example.

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
As I thought.....you have no idea.

I have a very good idea, what systems they use

I am trying to help you get off your butt and do some research yourself

I mean do you seriously want me to put soime links up for you, being that you are that lazy?

You are usually very good at spelling out in great detail (whether people are interested or not) on how best to do things, I was interested in what you thought, not what a load of googling said.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I never claimed to be an expert in mental health.

You started to claim why men committed suicide

That was you, not me

Go figure

I said one reason....obviously there are many reasons why men commit suicide.

You claim to have experience and Knowledge because you worked in the NHS.
You could have been a porter, a chiropodist or the man who takes the newspapers round  for all I know, that gives you as much knowledge of mental health as the rest of us.

We have been debating the NHS, so clearly I have knowledge on this

I have also worked with Doctors and Nurses. The former being very important. The later not so important. Most of which do very little these days, when before they did plenty. Most of their time is filled with electronic paperwork

I also have knowledge on how men are 3 times more likely to kill themselves than women

Yet the Daily Mirror decides only female Nurses are of importance when it comes to suicides

Then decides that this is down to cuts

Humbug

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

I have a very good idea, what systems they use

I am trying to help you get off your butt and do some research yourself

I mean do you seriously want me to put soime links up for you, being that you are that lazy?

You are usually very good at spelling out in great detail (whether people are interested or not) on how best to do things, I was interested in what you thought, not what a load of googling said.

Considering there is quite a few, its easier for people to see themselves

Its sunday and I certainly am not your slave

Stop being lazy and look up yourself

The other problem is people going out and getting drunk, which stretches the NHS. They drink too much, they fall over, or get into fights. Did it used to happen so much?

Raggamuffin wrote:The other problem is people going out and getting drunk, which stretches the NHS. They drink too much, they fall over, or get into fights. Did it used to happen so much?

I watch Ambulance. It's on BBC1, I think. The other week the ambulance got called out to some drunk druggie sniffing solvents (the paramedic caught him doing that in the actual ride to the hospital) and some poor old person who had taken a fall and the ambulance took hours to reach her.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:
Also, what may work in one country may not always work in another.
I do know the NHS has worked for us in the UK for over 70 years, It needs looking at now, obviously there are reasons why it's failing, but I think it would be a big mistake to end it.

I don't think it's failing. As shown by the story in another thread, the ambulance service is for those who actually need an ambulance, it's not for those for those who need a lift to a hospital. It can be difficult to get a GP appointment, but it's not impossible, and if it's an emergency they will see you. People do have to go quite a long way to a hospital these days, but if they have bad health they could always move a bit nearer to one.

I think the main problem is people going to the doctor for silly reasons - like a viral infection, for example.

I think compared to how the NHS operated less than 10 years ago, it's definitely got a lot worse, though some areas must be better than others.
I dont use the GP a lot, but in my experience I could always get an appointment for me or family members within 1 or 2 days...now it's more than 1 or 2 weeks.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:The other problem is people going out and getting drunk, which stretches the NHS. They drink too much, they fall over, or get into fights. Did it used to happen so much?

I watch Ambulance.  It's on BBC1, I think.   The other week the ambulance got called out to some drunk druggie sniffing solvents (the paramedic caught him doing that in the actual ride to the hospital) and some poor old person who had taken a fall and the ambulance took hours to reach her.  

Exactly, although I have to say that I know a few elderly people who have fallen over because they drank too much.

I don't really get all this falling over thing. Can't people look where they're going?

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think it's failing. As shown by the story in another thread, the ambulance service is for those who actually need an ambulance, it's not for those for those who need a lift to a hospital. It can be difficult to get a GP appointment, but it's not impossible, and if it's an emergency they will see you. People do have to go quite a long way to a hospital these days, but if they have bad health they could always move a bit nearer to one.

I think the main problem is people going to the doctor for silly reasons - like a viral infection, for example.

I think compared to how the NHS operated less than 10 years ago, it's definitely got a lot worse, though some areas must be better than others.
I dont use the GP a lot, but in my experience I could always get an appointment for me or family members within 1 or 2 days...now it's more than 1 or 2 weeks.

You can't book a doctor's appointment at my GPs, you have to ring on the day. It's usually possible to get one if you persevere. Nurse appointments can be booked in advance.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think it's failing. As shown by the story in another thread, the ambulance service is for those who actually need an ambulance, it's not for those for those who need a lift to a hospital. It can be difficult to get a GP appointment, but it's not impossible, and if it's an emergency they will see you. People do have to go quite a long way to a hospital these days, but if they have bad health they could always move a bit nearer to one.

I think the main problem is people going to the doctor for silly reasons - like a viral infection, for example.

I think compared to how the NHS operated less than 10 years ago, it's definitely got a lot worse, though some areas must be better than others.
I dont use the GP a lot, but in my experience I could always get an appointment for me or family members within 1 or 2 days...now it's more than 1 or 2 weeks.

I have never not been given an appointment on the same day

Its always on the same day

I go down to rhe surgery when it opens and am always able to book an appointment on that same day

If I come down later and they are busy. I always have the GP call me back, who invites me in anyway to see her again on the same day or provides a prescription of steroids left out at the surgery.

the NHS is bullshit, people think its nationalised, but the reality is that its entirely privatised but under a nationalised umbrella which means its open to every kind of abuse going and obliged to do so by its private owners.

the more its abused the more money the share holders of the trusts make, its the same shit that happened in iraq, private companies billed the US military to work and the more they worked they more they got paid,the more they charged the more they earned,but it stacked, it was accumulative.

so they ended up running empty convoys and charging for it, made burns pits with branded new office equipment that never even got taken out of the box or switched on.

its the same with the NHS due to labours PFI contracts, thats why its bleeding out, thats why the service its provides is substandard

Raggamuffin wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I watch Ambulance.  It's on BBC1, I think.   The other week the ambulance got called out to some drunk druggie sniffing solvents (the paramedic caught him doing that in the actual ride to the hospital) and some poor old person who had taken a fall and the ambulance took hours to reach her.  

Exactly, although I have to say that I know a few elderly people who have fallen over because they drank too much.

I don't really get all this falling over thing. Can't people look where they're going?

The old girl was in her late eighties, and her legs must have given way. She had no family. When you get that old, you're very shaky on your legs. Poor love, she was talking about how she'd been in the forces in Egypt, and there she was lying in the cold for an hour or more alone til the ambulance got there.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:
I think compared to how the NHS operated less than 10 years ago, it's definitely got a lot worse, though some areas must be better than others.
I dont use the GP a lot, but in my experience I could always get an appointment for me or family members within 1 or 2 days...now it's more than 1 or 2 weeks.

You can't book a doctor's appointment at my GPs, you have to ring on the day. It's usually possible to get one if you persevere. Nurse appointments can be booked in advance.

We used to have a similar system years ago, The lines would open at 8am, so obviously everyone tried to ring then. Even on speed dial it was often the case that by the time you got through all the appointments for that day would be filled.

Last year three surgerys joined together and it's chaos. I booked an appointment for blood tests, I had to wait a month to see a nurse, the morning I went she had rung in sick and no one had bothered to inform her patients.

Since last year I know of 2 long serving receptionists who have left because of the chaos.

Some years ago I was called in for Blood tests to check Liver, Kidneys and the function of other Organs every 6 Months.Now, they don't bother, it's been 5 years since this happened. Seems like when you get past a certain age your forgotten !

Syl wrote:

smelly-bandit wrote:so what???

men kill themsleves at a far greater rate than one a week

In 2017, there were 4,383 male suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45407487

so wind your fucking tits in

Men...as opposed to nurses, thats a bit of an uneven playing field.

Would be interesting to know how many of these are men...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:
Men...as opposed to nurses, thats a bit of an uneven playing field.

Would be interesting to know how many of these are men...?

It doesn't give those figures, just that female nurses are much more likely to commit suicide than male nurses.

"The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, show 305 killed themselves over the seven-year period. Data revealed 32 suicides were recorded in 2017. This was down from 51 nurses aged from 20 to 64 in 2016.

But the highest total was 54, recorded in 2014. And a recent study has shown female nurses are more at risk of suicide than other professions.

“The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”

nicko wrote:Some years ago I was called in for Blood tests to check Liver, Kidneys and the function of other Organs every 6 Months.Now, they don't bother, it's been 5 years since this happened. Seems like when you get past a certain age your forgotten !

Why don't you call them and make an appointment? I have to have blood tests but I'm expected to book them myself. The only reason they ever contact me is if I haven't booked one at the right time because they won't prescribe the medication if I don't have a blood test.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Would be interesting to know how many of these are men...?

It doesn't give those figures, just that female nurses are much more likely to commit suicide than male nurses.

"The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, show 305 killed themselves over the seven-year period. Data revealed 32 suicides were recorded in 2017. This was down from 51 nurses aged from 20 to 64 in 2016.

But the highest total was 54, recorded in 2014. And a recent study has shown female nurses are more at risk of suicide than other professions.

“The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”

Of course any suicide is a tragedy... but the overall rate for men is about 100 per week...

And is around 3 x the rate for women...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Syl wrote:
It doesn't give those figures, just that female nurses are much more likely to commit suicide than male nurses.

"The figures, from the Office for National Statistics, show 305 killed themselves over the seven-year period. Data revealed 32 suicides were recorded in 2017. This was down from 51 nurses aged from 20 to 64 in 2016.

But the highest total was 54, recorded in 2014. And a recent study has shown female nurses are more at risk of suicide than other professions.

“The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”

Of course any suicide is a tragedy... but the overall rate for men is about 100 per week...

And is around 3 x the rate for women...

I agree every suicide is tragic, and the suicide rate for men is much higher than the suicide rate for women.

However, as the suicide rate for female nurses is 23% higher than the national average it's right that the government and the RCN are pledging to offer the nursing profession more help.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Of course any suicide is a tragedy... but the overall rate for men is about 100 per week...

And is around 3 x the rate for women...

I agree every suicide is tragic, and the suicide rate for men is much higher than the suicide rate for women.

However, as the suicide rate for female nurses is 23% higher than the national average it's right that the government and the RCN are pledging to offer the nursing profession more help.

I'm wondering how many of those suicides is to do with peer pressure, or bullying in the work place. There's a pecking order in nursing, though it may not be apparent. I had a client who was bullied out of her job at Thameside hospital. She was a nervous wreck and nearly had a breakdown. She said it was rotten from the top all the way down.

Just going out on a limb here...do people who commit suicide ever actually do it over that one thing?
Seems to me they are susceptible to depression anyway.

eddie wrote:Just going out on a limb here...do people who commit suicide ever actually do it over that one thing?
Seems to me they are susceptible to depression anyway.

I think people who commit suicide either have suffered one huge loss, or feel overwhelmed by dozens of things they aren't happy enough.

A happy person who hates his job doesn't kill himself, he gets a new job.

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

eddie wrote:Just going out on a limb here...do people who commit suicide ever actually do it over that one thing?
Seems to me they are susceptible to depression anyway.

I think people who commit suicide either have suffered one huge loss, or feel overwhelmed by dozens of things they aren't happy enough.

A happy person who hates his job doesn't kill himself, he gets a new job.

That’s pretty much what I’m getting at. So are these figures actually true? Could you take another occupation and find similar statistics?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:
I agree every suicide is tragic, and the suicide rate for men is much higher than the suicide rate for women.

However, as the suicide rate for female nurses is 23% higher than the national average it's right that the government and the RCN are pledging to offer the nursing profession more help.

I'm wondering how many of those suicides is to do with peer pressure, or bullying in the work place.    There's a pecking order in nursing, though it may not be apparent.   I had a client who was bullied out of her job at Thameside hospital.   She was a nervous wreck and nearly had a breakdown.   She said it was rotten from the top all the way down.

Tameside hospital  had a bad reputation for years. It was put in special measures a few years ago. Now it has a good rating, so they have improved a lot over the last 5 years..

If a hospital cant care for it's patients there isn't much hope that their nurses are treated fairly either.

smelly-bandit wrote:so what???

men kill themsleves at a far greater rate than one a week

In 2017, there were 4,383 male suicides.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-45407487

so wind your fucking tits in

Is that supposed to make people sympathetic to men, by the way?

A man who hates his life should change it, using whatever help he needs -- not curl up in a ball and end it.

eddie wrote:Just going out on a limb here...do people who commit suicide ever actually do it over that one thing?
Seems to me they are susceptible to depression anyway.

I doubt anyone ever kills themselves over one thing, though if you are prone to genetic depression, I think that can just come on for no apparant reason. Dont some call it the Black dog? One day you are OK, the next it's just there.

If depression is stress related, I imagine it builds up over time.

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:Just going out on a limb here...do people who commit suicide ever actually do it over that one thing?
Seems to me they are susceptible to depression anyway.

I doubt anyone ever kills themselves over one thing, though if you are prone to genetic depression, I think that can just come on for no apparant reason. Dont some call it the Black dog? One day you are OK, the next it's just there.

If depression is stress related, I imagine it builds up over time.

Then the story is misleading.

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:
I doubt anyone ever kills themselves over one thing, though if you are prone to genetic depression, I think that can just come on for no apparant reason. Dont some call it the Black dog? One day you are OK, the next it's just there.

If depression is stress related, I imagine it builds up over time.

Then the story is misleading.

In what way?

Syl wrote:

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:
I doubt anyone ever kills themselves over one thing, though if you are prone to genetic depression, I think that can just come on for no apparant reason. Dont some call it the Black dog? One day you are OK, the next it's just there.

If depression is stress related, I imagine it builds up over time.

Then the story is misleading.

In what way?

Because you just said it yourself??? People don’t kill themselves over one thing. This story leads us to believe that these nurses killed themselves because they’re nurses/because of the stress of the job/cuts to NHS.

If they’d worked in a factory they may have topped themselves. Or an office. Or a sweet shop.

Why has my print gone big?

Oh it's gone OK again.

To be honest, that could apply to anyone in a stressful job. Like I said, in my opinion, it’s a misleading title.

It should’ve read:

“Some people commit suicide if they’re in a stressful job”

eddie wrote:To be honest, that could apply to anyone in a stressful job. Like I said, in my opinion, it’s a misleading title.

It should’ve read:

“Some people commit suicide if they’re in a stressful job”

I think the point of the article was that female nurses kill themselves more than females kill themselves in other professions. 23% more than the national average.

The government and the Royal College of Nursing see there is a problem and want to address it..

I'm not sure why so many people seem to have an issue with that..