One nurse a week commited suicide in the UK.

What a sad and shocking state of affairs. We as a country do a really crap job in caring for the people who devote their lives caring for us, be  they NHS nurses, home carers, or family members caring for the increasingly ageing population.



"More than 300 nurses have taken their own lives in just seven years, shocking new figures reveal.
During the worst year, one was committing suicide EVERY WEEK as Tory cuts began to bite deep into the NHS.
Today victims’ families call for vital early mental health training and support for young nurses – and an end to a “bullying and toxic culture” in the health service which leaves them afraid to ask for help in their darkest moments.
One mum – whose trainee nurse daughter Lucy de Oliveira killed herself while juggling other jobs to make ends meet – told us: “They’re working all hours God sends doing a really important job. Most of them would be better off working in McDonald’s. That can’t be right.”


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-300-overworked-nhs-nurses-14822382

There's an irresponsibility about British politics that I don't get.  Tories let their grab for money--in the guise of austerity--over take their need for essential services?

I noticed it when they were dismantling their navy, turning aircraft carriers into flower pots.

The Tories have put this country on it's knees.
Apart from the NHS which has never been in such a state...2 to 3 week wait is normal to see an NHS GP in this area, even longer to see a nurse for basic blood tests. The police have had so many cuts Manchester police chief said last week that 'minor' crimes like bike theft and shed, garage break ins wont even be investigated because they just dont have the police power to send anyone out...and no point reporting shop lifting crime either.
Stabbings are at an all time high throughout the country, not just in London.

Yet...Theresa May still insists that the monetary cuts have not had an adverse effect on the police and the NHS.

She should try telling that to the families of the 300 nurses who have killed themselves under the Tory rule.

To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

Indeed, they are trying to make a match. Based off zero information other than the occupation

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/research-policy/suicide-facts-and-figures/

We would need to know if any suffered from any mental illness or not. There could be many variables as to why people have taken their own lives

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

True, but if suicide in nursing is 27% higher than the national average, that's quite a revealing figure.

Some of the families of the nurses who have killed themselves blame stress from the actual job.
I know when I was in hospital young nurses were working over 12 hour shifts with just a coupe of 15 minute breaks. They didn't even have long enough to get to the canteen and have a snack.

Some student nurses working a minimum of 37 hours a week, often much longer, dont even get a wage...how can that be right?

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

True, but if suicide in nursing is 27% higher than the national average, that's quite a revealing figure.

Some of the families of the nurses who have killed themselves blame stress from the actual job.
I know when I was in hospital young nurses were working over 12 hour shifts with just a coupe of 15 minute breaks. They didn't even have long enough to get to the canteen and have a snack.

Some student nurses working a minimum of 37 hours a week, often much longer,   dont even get a wage...how can that be right?

You could make the same argument around the view that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide

The reality is, we do not know, if those who did commit suicide, already had mental health illnesses

To place this on thier job, is very flimsy to say the least Syl

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:

True, but if suicide in nursing is 27% higher than the national average, that's quite a revealing figure.

Some of the families of the nurses who have killed themselves blame stress from the actual job.
I know when I was in hospital young nurses were working over 12 hour shifts with just a coupe of 15 minute breaks. They didn't even have long enough to get to the canteen and have a snack.

Some student nurses working a minimum of 37 hours a week, often much longer,   dont even get a wage...how can that be right?

You could make the same argument around the view that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide

The reality is, we do not know, if those who did commit suicide, already had mental health illnesses

To place this on thier job, is very flimsy to say the least Syl

Well the RCN are taking it seriously Didge, pledging to offer more emotional help for stressed out nurses.
And oddly, in the nursing profession it's females rather than males who commit suicide.

"The RCN said guidance at work was not good enough, and conditions were getting worse for overworked nurses with a national shortage of 40,000. Dame Kinnair said: “The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”
The Department of Health and Social Care said: “The NHS will shortly set out its response to recommendations which will improve mental health support for staff, including access to a dedicated confidential helpline.”

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

True, but if suicide in nursing is 27% higher than the national average, that's quite a revealing figure.

Some of the families of the nurses who have killed themselves blame stress from the actual job.
I know when I was in hospital young nurses were working over 12 hour shifts with just a coupe of 15 minute breaks. They didn't even have long enough to get to the canteen and have a snack.

Some student nurses working a minimum of 37 hours a week, often much longer,   dont even get a wage...how can that be right?

23% according to the article. Could that be because they have access to drugs?

I certainly agree that student nurses should be properly paid, that nobody should be doing 12-hour shifts, and that they should get proper breaks.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

You could make the same argument around the view that men are 3 times more likely than women to commit suicide

The reality is, we do not know, if those who did commit suicide, already had mental health illnesses

To place this on thier job, is very flimsy to say the least Syl

Well the RCN are taking it seriously Didge, pledging to offer more emotional help for stressed out nurses.
And oddly, in the nursing profession it's females rather than males who commit suicide.

"The RCN said guidance at work was not good enough, and conditions were getting worse for overworked nurses with a national shortage of 40,000. Dame Kinnair said: “The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”
The Department of Health and Social Care said: “The NHS will shortly set out its response to recommendations which will improve mental health support for staff, including access to a dedicated confidential helpline.”

That is good, but what aboout the vastly other suicidal people?

Again many people suffer stress at work and to single out one form of work and offer more views to help them only is inequality

The view should be to offer services to all

I simple do not buy the view, that nurses are killing themselves, simple because they work as a nurse

What should happen is a long look at the history of the people who have killed themselves and as to why

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:

True, but if suicide in nursing is 27% higher than the national average, that's quite a revealing figure.

Some of the families of the nurses who have killed themselves blame stress from the actual job.
I know when I was in hospital young nurses were working over 12 hour shifts with just a coupe of 15 minute breaks. They didn't even have long enough to get to the canteen and have a snack.

Some student nurses working a minimum of 37 hours a week, often much longer,   dont even get a wage...how can that be right?

23% according to the article. Could that be because they have access to drugs?

I certainly agree that student nurses should be properly paid, that nobody should be doing 12-hour shifts, and that they should get proper breaks.

Stand corrected 23%. It's still a huge leap from the NA.

It could be down to many things, but I do know when I have listened to phone in about nurses, especially student nurses, stress is usually the main thing that forces them to consider leaving.

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:

Well the RCN are taking it seriously Didge, pledging to offer more emotional help for stressed out nurses.
And oddly, in the nursing profession it's females rather than males who commit suicide.

"The RCN said guidance at work was not good enough, and conditions were getting worse for overworked nurses with a national shortage of 40,000. Dame Kinnair said: “The Government and all NHS bodies must take a detailed look at why female nurses are much more likely to take their lives than male counterparts.”
The Department of Health and Social Care said: “The NHS will shortly set out its response to recommendations which will improve mental health support for staff, including access to a dedicated confidential helpline.”

That is good, but what aboout the vastly other suicidal people?

Again many people suffer stress at work and to single out one form of work and offer more views to help them only is inequality

The view should be to offer services to all

I simple do not buy the view, that nurses are killing themselves, simple because they work as a nurse

What should happen is a long look at the history of the people who have killed themselves and as to why

Sometimes things have to be generalised, if one profession has a vastly higher suicide rate than another profession, it's surely a warning sign that things need to be looked into.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

That is good, but what aboout the vastly other suicidal people?

Again many people suffer stress at work and to single out one form of work and offer more views to help them only is inequality

The view should be to offer services to all

I simple do not buy the view, that nurses are killing themselves, simple because they work as a nurse

What should happen is a long look at the history of the people who have killed themselves and as to why

Sometimes things have to be generalised, if one profession has a vastly higher suicide rate than another profession, it's surely a warning sign that things need to be looked into.

Well men for years have been 3 times more likely to commit suicde than women. So where is all the support for men?

Males working in the lowest-skilled occupations had a 44% higher risk of suicide than the male national average; the risk among males in skilled trades was 35% higher.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/suicidebyoccupation/england2011to2015

So the above is the original study for the one on nurses

Are people going to call for support for low skilled or skilled male workers to have all that is being offered to the nurses?

Or do these men count less?

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:

Sometimes things have to be generalised, if one profession has a vastly higher suicide rate than another profession, it's surely a warning sign that things need to be looked into.

Well men for years have been 3 times more likely to commit suicde than women. So where is all the support for men?

OK...but it's not a competition Didge, obviously if people ask for help, and men are particularly bad at that, help should be given.

Nursing is however a vital job, who will look after the men who feel suicidal if all the nurses are so stressed out they have either left nursing or killed themselves?  

If the Royal College of Nursing has recognised there is a problem with young female nurses killing themselves, I for one am glad that something is going to be done to relieve the stress.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Well men for years have been 3 times more likely to commit suicde than women. So where is all the support for men?

OK...but it's not a competition Didge, obviously if people ask for help, and men are particularly bad at that, help should be given.

Nursing is however a vital job, who will look after the men who feel suicidal if all the nurses are so stressed out they have either left nursing or killed themselves?  

If the Royal College of Nursing has recognised there is a problem with young female nurses killing themselves, I for one am glad that something is going to be done to relieve the stress.

But that is the point by singling out just nurses here

As seen the numbers have been skewed by the Mirror

The reality is men in certain jobs are more likely to commit suicide than Nurses

So to simple point out Nurses, is poor to say the least

So are many skilled Jobs vital and even those with men is more likely than Nurses to commit suicide

To make a view on what is more vital is shocking to me. When all should receive the due care and help they need that suffer mental health issues.

This is nothing more than the Mirror stooping so low, using the plight of suicides to promote a political agenda

Of course any programme to help any profession needs money....something the Tories refuse to co-operate with,  they take it away, which adds to the stress.
Hence my point that the NHS is on it's knees.

Syl wrote:Of course any programme to help any profession needs money....something the Tories refuse to co-operate with,  they take it away, which adds to the stress.
Hence my point that the NHS is on it's knees.

I dont support the tories anyway

The NHS is on its knees, because it is unworkable and people need to start waking up to that fact.
Throwing more money after bad, is never going to resolve the growing problems of the NHS
We have an aging population alongside a baby boom. The two groups most susceptible ti illness.
Its time we scraped the NHS and replaced this with something far better like we see in places like Europe and Canada

Sorry, but this was poor political point scoring by the Mirror and at the expense of people who commit suicide

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:Of course any programme to help any profession needs money....something the Tories refuse to co-operate with,  they take it away, which adds to the stress.
Hence my point that the NHS is on it's knees.

I dont support the tories anyway

The NHS is on its knees, because it is unworkable and people need to start waking up to that fact.
Throwing more money after bad, is never going to resolve the growing problems of the NHS
We have an aging population alongside a baby boom. The two groups most susceptible ti illness.
Its time we scraped the NHS and replaced this with something far better like we see in places like Europe and Canada

Sorry, but this was poor political point scoring by the Mirror and at the expense of people who commit suicide

It's not only the Mirror who have reported high suicide rates in the nursing profession.
They certainly  are  a Labour supporting paper, but they often lead the way in highlighting certain stories which are then taken note of nationally..
The most recent changed the law on organ donations, so they often make aware whatother papers choose to ignore.

This country has always been proud of the NHS, it shouldn't be scrapped, millions of people rely on it, it should be invested in, and sadly thats not been happening for a long time.

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

Good point. Many people commit suicide due to their jobs. Not just nurses.

Of course the NHS should be scrapped Syl and replaced with something more affordable and workable. Its all well and good being proud of something, but we are way down in the league of wellfare to patients and survival rates. That to me is not something to be proud of.

I agree with the law on organ donation

I donot like when papers or people in one industry, side themselves out for better funding than others over mental health. Espcially when they skew the facts on this.

Laters

phildidge wrote:Of course the NHS should be scrapped Syl and replaced with something more affordable and workable. Its all well and good being proud of something, but we are way down in the league of wellfare to patients and survival rates. That to me is not something to be proud of.

I agree with the law on organ donation

I donot like when papers or people in one industry, side themselves out for better funding than others over mental health. Espcially when they skew the facts on this.

Laters

Apart from private health care which millions of people wouldn't be able to afford, what do you suggest to take the place of the NHS?

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:Of course the NHS should be scrapped Syl and replaced with something more affordable and workable. Its all well and good being proud of something, but we are way down in the league of wellfare to patients and survival rates. That to me is not something to be proud of.

I agree with the law on organ donation

I donot like when papers or people in one industry, side themselves out for better funding than others over mental health. Espcially when they skew the facts on this.

Laters

Apart from private health care which millions of people wouldn't be able to afford, what do you suggest to take the place of the NHS?

Easy, adopt one of the systems from a country where it does work.
Like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Finland etc

Catch you later

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
Apart from private health care which millions of people wouldn't be able to afford, what do you suggest to take the place of the NHS?

Easy, adopt one of the systems from a country where it does work.
Like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Finland etc

Catch you later

Maybe you could explain exactly how that  work in the UK later.

Have a good day.

Raggamuffin wrote:To be fair, we don't know why these nurses have killed themselves. There are a lot of suicides in this country, and we don't normally break them down re occupations.

But that is the nature of quantitative argument ... there is a statistical association somewhere.

Best get to work finding the answer. Nurses are needed, and a live nurse is better than a dead nurse.

Original Quill wrote:

But that is the nature of quantitative argument ... there is a statistical association somewhere.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/suicidebyoccupation/england2011to2015[/quote]

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But that is the nature of quantitative argument ... there is a statistical association somewhere.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/suicidebyoccupation/england2011to2015

404 - The webpage you are requesting does not exist on the site.

Original Quill wrote:

phildidge wrote:



https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/suicidebyoccupation/england2011to2015

404 - The webpage you are requesting does not exist on the site.

Table of contents

[list=toc]
[*]Introduction

[*]Main points

[*]Collaboration

[*]Why do some occupations have a high risk of suicide?

[*]Things you need to know about this release

[*]Suicide by occupation among males

[*]Suicide by occupation among females

[*]Additional data included in the accompanying data tables

[*]Discussion of the main findings

[*]The data used in this bulletin

[*]Statistical measures of suicide by occupation

[*]Acknowledgements

[*]References

[/list]

phildidge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

404 - The webpage you are requesting does not exist on the site.

Table of contents

Your link seems to echo what the Daily Mirror reported.

The other occupational group with an elevated risk of suicide was health professionals. Over the period 2011 to 2015 the risk of suicide among health professionals was 24% higher than the national average. This finding is largely explained by the higher risk of suicide among nurses, which was 23% above the national average. These findings fit past research which shows elevated risk of suicide among female health professionals (Hawton et al, 2001; Hawton et al, 2011 and Kõlves and De Leo, 2013). Poisoning was the most frequent method of suicide among female health professionals, accounting for 41.2% of all suicides. However, as a method of suicide, poisoning tends to be more common among females, accounting for 36.7% of all suicides among women in England during the same period.

Would lov to know more about the chapter: "Why do some occupations have a high risk of suicide?" That seems on-point.

Can you download and post it?

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Table of contents

Your link seems to echo what the Daily Mirror reported.

The other occupational group with an elevated risk of suicide was health professionals. Over the period 2011 to 2015 the risk of suicide among health professionals was 24% higher than the national average. This finding is largely explained by the higher risk of suicide among nurses, which was 23% above the national average. These findings fit past research which shows elevated risk of suicide among female health professionals (Hawton et al, 2001; Hawton et al, 2011 and Kõlves and De Leo, 2013). Poisoning was the most frequent method of suicide among female health professionals, accounting for 41.2% of all suicides. However, as a method of suicide, poisoning tends to be more common among females, accounting for 36.7% of all suicides among women in England during the same period.

Doh, that is where the Daily Mirror got the stats

Maybe you should look at the stats on men, which the Daily Mirror, failed to point out

It seems female Nurses are more important than any male in any proffession according to the Daily Mirror

Original Quill wrote:Would lov to know more about the chapter: "Why do some occupations have a high risk of suicide?"  That seems on-point.

Can you download and post it?

Why do some occupations have a high risk of suicide?
The risk of suicide in different occupations has been extensively studied in the UK and internationally. Attempting to explain suicide by occupation is complex as it is likely that a number of factors act together to increase risk. There are 3 broad reasons why an occupation may carry a high risk of suicide.

(1) Job-related features such as low pay and low job security increase risk
In a recent review of the literature, Milner et al (2013) studied the results from 34 international research projects on suicide by occupation. The results showed that the highest rates of suicide tended to be among workers with the lowest level of skill (for example, cleaners, low-skilled labourers), whereas the lowest rates of suicide were seen amongst those working in highly skilled occupations (for example, managers, chief executives, senior officials). Low-skilled workers tend to receive lower pay and have less job security and control over their work patterns than higher-skilled workers. In keeping with this, in a study of occupational suicide in Denmark, Agerbo et al (2007) found that after controlling for differences in income and employment levels in different occupations, the occupational disparity in suicide risk diminished considerably. Therefore it may not be the actual occupation that puts individuals at risk, but features of the job such as low pay, job security and the wider socio-economic characteristics of individuals employed in a particular sector.

(2) People at high risk of suicide may selectively go into particular kinds of occupations
For deaths registered in England and Wales between 1982 and 1996, Kelly and Bunting (1998) found elevated risk of suicide among publicans. One explanation could be that those who are at risk of alcoholism, a risk factor for suicide (see Hufford, 2001 and Sher, 2005), are attracted to occupations where alcohol is freely available. In other words, predefined characteristics may attract people to certain lines of work which increases their suicide risk (also see Goldney, 2016).

(3) Having access to, or knowledge of, a method of suicide increases risk
Office for National Statistics (ONS) data on occupational mortality in England and Wales between 1991 and 2000 indicated that doctors, dentists, nurses, vets and agricultural workers such as farmers were at increased risk of suicide. Similar patterns of risk have been found in other analyses of England and Wales data as well as those of other high-income countries (see Agerbo et al, 2007; Kelly and Bunting, 1998; Kõlves and De Leo, 2013; McIntosh et al, 2016 and Meltzer et al, 2008). Common explanations for the high risk of suicide in occupations like these include having easy access to lethal drugs (for example, health professionals; see Hawton et al, 2000; Milner et al, 2016 and Skegg, 2010) and firearms (for example, farmers: see Malmberg et al, 1999 and Skegg, 2010). High risk of suicide among health professionals could also be explained by these occupations possessing relevant knowledge on methods of suicide (for example, different kinds of drugs, lethal doses and their effects).

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
Your link seems to echo what the Daily Mirror reported.

The other occupational group with an elevated risk of suicide was health professionals. Over the period 2011 to 2015 the risk of suicide among health professionals was 24% higher than the national average. This finding is largely explained by the higher risk of suicide among nurses, which was 23% above the national average. These findings fit past research which shows elevated risk of suicide among female health professionals (Hawton et al, 2001; Hawton et al, 2011 and Kõlves and De Leo, 2013). Poisoning was the most frequent method of suicide among female health professionals, accounting for 41.2% of all suicides. However, as a method of suicide, poisoning tends to be more common among females, accounting for 36.7% of all suicides among women in England during the same period.

Doh, that is where the Daily Mirror got the stats

Maybe you should look at the stats on men, which the Daily Mirror, failed to point out

It seems female Nurses are more important than any male in any proffession according to the Daily Mirror

The Daily Mirror stats are more up to date...2017.
The graph you put up was dated only up to 2015.
The situation is not improving, and that is what the Mirror is highlighting.

Like I said previously, it's not a competition between men and women, but in this case it's highlighted that the suicides of female nurses is high in comparison to others in different occupations.

Not sure why you seem to be in denial.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:


Doh, that is where the Daily Mirror got the stats

Maybe you should look at the stats on men, which the Daily Mirror, failed to point out

It seems female Nurses are more important than any male in any proffession according to the Daily Mirror

The Daily Mirror stats are more up to date...2017.
The graph you put up was dated only up to 2015.
The situation is not improving, and that is what the Mirror is highlighting.

Like I said previously, it's not a competition between men and women, but in this case it's highlighted that the suicides of female nurses is high in comparison to others in different occupations.

Not sure why you seem to be in denial.

What difference does that make?

Hardly anything

It clearly is a competition for the daily Mirror who are placing Female nurses above men

Men are 3 times more likely to commit suicide than women

In some professions far more than Nurse likely to kill themselves

Like I say, this is the Daily mirror stooping so low trying to score political points

As this should be about the risks of suicides, not in just one profession

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Easy, adopt one of the systems from a country where it does work.
Like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Australia, Finland etc

Catch you later

Maybe you could explain exactly how that  work in the UK later.

Have a good day.

As it works in their countries

Simple eh?

Much the same as in the UK.

Raggamuffin wrote:Much the same as in the UK.

No country has ever adopted the NHS system

Data is collected year on year, if there is a rise or fall in suicides obviously it makes a difference ....what is the point of collecting statistics otherwise?

I know men are more likely to kill themselves than women, for a variety of reasons. Probably the main one is they bottle stuff up, drink also play a part, which is why suicide rate is high amongst publicans.

Maybe when the government realise how badly their policies have affected young nurses and do  something about it, (not likely but we live in hope) the Mirror will concentrate on another group who are so stressed out they feel the only way out is to kill themselves.

Like the paper or not....and I can take it or leave it, they campaign for and highlight some good social awareness subjects which can eventually make a difference.

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
Maybe you could explain exactly how that  work in the UK later.

Have a good day.

As it works in their countries

Simple eh?

Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

Syl wrote:Data is collected year on year, if there is a rise or fall in suicides obviously it makes a difference ....what is the point of collecting statistics otherwise?

I know men are more likely to kill themselves than women, for a variety of reasons. Probably the main one is they bottle stuff up, drink also play a part, which is why suicide rate is high amongst publicans.

Maybe when the government realise how badly their policies have affected young nurses and do  something about it, (not likely but we live in hope) the Mirror will concentrate on another group who are so stressed out they feel the only way out is to kill themselves.

Like the paper or not....and I can take it or leave it, they campaign for and highlight some good social awareness subjects which can eventually make a difference.

Come again?

They commit suicide because they bottle things up?

Are you kidding me?

Do you even know anything about mental health?

As to the stats, they show overwhemingly that men and in some profressions are more likely to commit suicide than women

So why just highlight nurses?

Its easy to try and then use to score political points

There is no doubt a variety of reasons, why people in care or medical maybe more susceptible to suicide. Just as there is in many industries

If you cannot see this is political scoring, when it argues off cuts. Then you are seriously not able to see behind the lines Syl

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

As it works in their countries

Simple eh?

Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

Simple, any of the ones that are currently better than ours in wellfare, survival etc

Look them up yourself, i am not here as your slave

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

Simple, any of the ones that are currently better than ours in wellfare, survival etc

Look them up yourself, i am not here as your slave

No....you are here to contradict every sensible point that has been made in this thread.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Simple, any of the ones that are currently better than ours in wellfare, survival etc

Look them up yourself, i am not here as your slave

No....you are here to contradict every sensible point that has been made in this thread.

I never contradicted any point raised by Rags or myself...

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:Data is collected year on year, if there is a rise or fall in suicides obviously it makes a difference ....what is the point of collecting statistics otherwise?

I know men are more likely to kill themselves than women, for a variety of reasons. Probably the main one is they bottle stuff up, drink also play a part, which is why suicide rate is high amongst publicans.

Maybe when the government realise how badly their policies have affected young nurses and do  something about it, (not likely but we live in hope) the Mirror will concentrate on another group who are so stressed out they feel the only way out is to kill themselves.

Like the paper or not....and I can take it or leave it, they campaign for and highlight some good social awareness subjects which can eventually make a difference.

Come again?

They commit suicide because they bottle things up?

Are you kidding me?

Do you even know anything about mental health?

As to the stats, they show overwhemingly that men and in some profressions are more likely to commit suicide than women

So why just highlight nurses?

Its easy to try and then use to score political points

There is no doubt a variety of reasons, why people in care or medical maybe more susceptible to suicide. Just as there is in many industries

If you cannot see this is political scoring, when it argues off cuts. Then you are seriously not able to see behind the lines Syl

I dont claim to be an expert on mental health but I do know bottling things up and refusing to talk through problems, which is generally a male trait, can lead to stress and depression, which can in the worst case scenario, lead to self harm and suicide.

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

As it works in their countries

Simple eh?

Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

He can't tell you - I've asked him before.

It's not so different from the UK system in those countries he mentioned. They probably invest more money in their health systems.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:
Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

He can't tell you - I've asked him before.

It's not so different from the UK system in those countries he mentioned. They probably invest more money in their health systems.

Wrong again

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Healthcare_expenditure_statistics

Syl wrote:

phildidge wrote:

Come again?

They commit suicide because they bottle things up?

Are you kidding me?

Do you even know anything about mental health?

As to the stats, they show overwhemingly that men and in some profressions are more likely to commit suicide than women

So why just highlight nurses?

Its easy to try and then use to score political points

There is no doubt a variety of reasons, why people in care or medical maybe more susceptible to suicide. Just as there is in many industries

If you cannot see this is political scoring, when it argues off cuts. Then you are seriously not able to see behind the lines Syl

I dont claim to be an expert on mental health but I do know bottling things up and refusing to talk through problems, which is generally a male trait, can lead to stress and depression, which can in the worst case scenario, lead to self harm and suicide.

If you dont know, then I suggest, not bothering to make claims on this

Men and women both can bottle up things

Its not a male or female trait but a human trait

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:
Not simple to me....cant you explain what would or would not work in the UK  if we abandoned the NHS.

He can't tell you - I've asked him before.

It's not so different from the UK system in those countries he mentioned. They probably invest more money in their health systems.

Also, what may work in one country may not always work in another.
I do know the NHS has worked for us in the UK for over 70 years, It needs looking at now, obviously there are reasons why it's failing, but I think it would be a big mistake to end it.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

He can't tell you - I've asked him before.

It's not so different from the UK system in those countries he mentioned. They probably invest more money in their health systems.

Also, what may work in one country may not always work in another.
I do know the NHS has worked for us in the UK for over 70 years, It needs looking at now, obviously there are reasons why it's failing, but I think it would be a big mistake to end it.

Well the NHS has not worked in this country for years

Long waiting times, poor health care, lower survival rates compared to other countries

Yet billions are continually pumped into a system that continualy is unworkable

Its long overdue it was scrapped

phildidge wrote:

Syl wrote:
I dont claim to be an expert on mental health but I do know bottling things up and refusing to talk through problems, which is generally a male trait, can lead to stress and depression, which can in the worst case scenario, lead to self harm and suicide.

If you dont know, then I suggest, not bothering to make claims on this

Men and women both can bottle up things

Its not a male or female trait but a human trait

I probably know more than you Didge, on account of I keep my eyes and ears open instead of my gob all the time.

You tend to live and learn better if you admit from the start that you dont know everything.