New Centrist party, Already Polling 8%

by Guest Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:33 pm

The pollsters have been quick off the mark to gauge the level of public support for a ‘New Centrist Party Opposed to Brexit’, even though the new Independents Group has not yet formally formed a party. Survation found that the theoretical new party would already attract the support of 8%, jumping straight into third place ahead of the Lib Dems:

Conservatives: 39%
Labour: 34%
“A new centrist party opposed to Brexit”: 8%
Lib Dems: 6%
UKIP: 5%
Green: 2%

Helpfully, they also conducted a second poll at the same time without the new centrist party, which gives a good indication of where their votes are coming from. The Lib Dems are hit hardest, losing almost half of their vote share (4%) to the new party, while Labour lose 2% and the Conservatives drop 1%. Not a compelling argument in favour of the Tories softening their position on Brexit…

Worryingly for Corbyn, the public is broadly supportive of the MPs’ decision to splinter away from Labour. Survation found 56% thought they were right to split, with only 20% opposed, while a separate YouGov poll found a 46%-13% split on the same question. On the question of which “best represents the people of Britain”, Survation found 40% favoured the new Independent Group while only 23% chose the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn. For the few, not the many…

https://order-order.com/2019/02/19/new-centrist-party-already-polling-8-lib-dems-lose/

by The Devil, You Know Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:41 pm

it is not a party, it is a business and as such does not have to be subject to electoral law which is why no one knows who is funding it.

by Guest Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:it is not a party, it is a business and as such does not have to be subject to electoral law which is why no one knows who is funding it.

People are seeing them I guess as the nucleus of a new party and as seen they have support

by The Devil, You Know Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:55 pm

yes there is now the choice of slightly more electable labour or antisemitic labour, although they most definitely are not a party and are not subject to electoral law which is why they have been most careful to hide their donors and backers.

I would put my money on Soros and Blair to be in the mix.

by Guest Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:00 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:yes there is now the choice of slightly more electable labour or antisemitic labour, although they most definitely are not a party and are not subject to electoral law which is why they have been most careful to hide their donors and backers.

I would put my money on Soros and Blair to be in the mix.

That could well be the case and this poll is even more telling as to why people now view Labour as antisemitic

According to The Sunday Times, a YouGov poll shows that 34 percent of voters consider Corbyn antisemitic, while 32 percent said they didn’t know. Only 24 percent said unequivocally that he is not. Asked if the Labour Party as a whole is antisemitic, 24 percent of those surveyed answered yes.

My Money is on chuka umunna being the leader, if a new party is formed

by The Devil, You Know Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:04 pm

Thor wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:yes there is now the choice of slightly more electable labour or antisemitic labour, although they most definitely are not a party and are not subject to electoral law which is why they have been most careful to hide their donors and backers.

I would put my money on Soros and Blair to be in the mix.

That could well be the case and this poll is even more telling as to why people now view Labour as antisemitic

According to The Sunday Times, a YouGov poll shows that 34 percent of voters consider Corbyn antisemitic, while 32 percent said they didn’t know. Only 24 percent said unequivocally that he is not. Asked if the Labour Party as a whole is antisemitic, 24 percent of those surveyed answered yes.

My Money is on chuka umunna being the leader, if a new party is formed

It's a shame that the poll showing chukka business on 8% did not include the new pro brexit party as well, although they may only be standing in the european elections I think

by The Devil, You Know Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:06 pm

Thor wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:yes there is now the choice of slightly more electable labour or antisemitic labour, although they most definitely are not a party and are not subject to electoral law which is why they have been most careful to hide their donors and backers.

I would put my money on Soros and Blair to be in the mix.

That could well be the case and this poll is even more telling as to why people now view Labour as antisemitic

According to The Sunday Times, a YouGov poll shows that 34 percent of voters consider Corbyn antisemitic, while 32 percent said they didn’t know. Only 24 percent said unequivocally that he is not. Asked if the Labour Party as a whole is antisemitic, 24 percent of those surveyed answered yes.

My Money is on chuka umunna being the leader, if a new party is formed

chukka bottled it on labour leadership, I wonder if his skeletons will have been silenced if he tries for the new business.

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:13 am

Good for them. I actually think if we end up with No Deal then even some Tories might join.

Is it too much to expect this might actually end the docile tribal politics of the UK population?

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:13 am

Eilzel wrote:Good for them. I actually think if we end up with No Deal then even some Tories might join.

Is it too much to expect this might actually end the docile tribal politics of the UK population?

Its close to some Tories already doing so

And now the number is now 8 Labour MP's have left Labour

Latest is Joan Ryan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47300832

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:51 am

Eilzel wrote:Good for them. I actually think if we end up with No Deal then even some Tories might join.

Is it too much to expect this might actually end the docile tribal politics of the UK population?

this is a remain group thata will have no purpose once we leave. And most will have no job once we get an election. good times

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:37 am

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Good for them. I actually think if we end up with No Deal then even some Tories might join.

Is it too much to expect this might actually end the docile tribal politics of the UK population?
this is a remain group thata will have no purpose once we leave. And most will have no job once we get an election. good times

They are a group of Remainers but they will still have purpose - as a centrist group that isn't beholden to the extreme elements of the Tory Right and Labour Left.

If they lose their elections it will be to Labour politicians, so how this is a good thing to you is beyond me.

Oh wait, no it isn't. You are one of those deeply tribal, almost football support-like political observers who actually prefers to have the divide entirely binary, red/blue.

You don't see any merit in having another option - of politicians more interested in putting the nation ahead of the party?

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:51 pm

So now 3 tories have defected to the new group

Which places their number at 11 MP's

They are now one behind Liberal MP's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6724121/Claims-Tory-MPs-defect-new-Independent-Group-soon-TODAY.html

I think we are on the verge of a new centrist party and can see more and more leaving both parties to join.

This could be the biggest shake up politics for years and could see many people warming to this group, if they form a party

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:58 pm

Thor wrote:So now 3 tories have defected to the new group

Which places their number at 11 MP's

They are now one behind Liberal MP's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6724121/Claims-Tory-MPs-defect-new-Independent-Group-soon-TODAY.html

I think we are on the verge of a new centrist party and can see more and more leaving both parties to join.

This could be the biggest shake up politics for years and could see many people warming to this group, if they form a party

I personally think this could be a much needed breath of fresh air for British politics. What's your view, didge?

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:So now 3 tories have defected to the new group

Which places their number at 11 MP's

They are now one behind Liberal MP's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6724121/Claims-Tory-MPs-defect-new-Independent-Group-soon-TODAY.html

I think we are on the verge of a new centrist party and can see more and more leaving both parties to join.

This could be the biggest shake up politics for years and could see many people warming to this group, if they form a party

I personal think this could be a much needed breath of fresh air for British politics. What's your view, didge?

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm

Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:Good for them. I actually think if we end up with No Deal then even some Tories might join.

Is it too much to expect this might actually end the docile tribal politics of the UK population?
this is a remain group thata will have no purpose once we leave. And most will have no job once we get an election. good times

They are a group of Remainers but they will still have purpose - as a centrist group that isn't beholden to the extreme elements of the Tory Right and Labour Left.

If they lose their elections it will be to Labour politicians, so how this is a good thing to you is beyond me.

Oh wait, no it isn't. You are one of those deeply tribal, almost football support-like political observers who actually prefers to have the divide entirely binary, red/blue.

You don't see any merit in having another option - of politicians more interested in putting the nation ahead of the party?

Any answer here, Devil? Or is my assessment right?

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:12 pm

Thor wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I personal think this could be a much needed breath of fresh air for British politics. What's your view, didge?

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

You may have mised my reply Eilzel, as you replied to head mate at the same time

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:14 pm

Thor wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:So now 3 tories have defected to the new group

Which places their number at 11 MP's

They are now one behind Liberal MP's

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6724121/Claims-Tory-MPs-defect-new-Independent-Group-soon-TODAY.html

I think we are on the verge of a new centrist party and can see more and more leaving both parties to join.

This could be the biggest shake up politics for years and could see many people warming to this group, if they form a party

I personal think this could be a much needed breath of fresh air for British politics. What's your view, didge?

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

I think a lot of people sick of the two party system might, it could also wipe out the Liberals.

An election this year though? I hadn't thought there would be, but I suppose if May ended up losing her cobbled together majority she might have to.

Not helpful to the UK right now; looking like coalitions are the future.

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:21 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

I think a lot of people sick of the two party system might, it could also wipe out the Liberals.

An election this year though? I hadn't thought there would be, but I suppose if May ended up losing her cobbled together majority she might have to.

Not helpful to the UK right now; looking like coalitions are the future.

If an election is delayed by at least some agreement over brexit with the EU. Then I think, you may see a credible new party come to form, to fight in the next general election. Which at the latest would be may 2022. That is 3 years away. It all depends on how many more defect and I guess what happens with Brexit.

I would certainly vote for tham and I guess many others would, who are sick to death of the two main parties

I cannot see it being a no deal scenario. The EU would suffer too much economically also. To the point it would definately push them into recession. Something they can ill afford and also could push other nations to leave. So some compremise will no doubt happen and this will be pushed by the Germans in the end. As the leadership knows in Germany, they could lose big, with large job loses. To the Far right capitalizing on this.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:22 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

They are a group of Remainers but they will still have purpose - as a centrist group that isn't beholden to the extreme elements of the Tory Right and Labour Left.

If they lose their elections it will be to Labour politicians, so how this is a good thing to you is beyond me.

Oh wait, no it isn't. You are one of those deeply tribal, almost football support-like political observers who actually prefers to have the divide entirely binary, red/blue.

You don't see any merit in having another option - of politicians more interested in putting the nation ahead of the party?

Any answer here, Devil? Or is my assessment right?

they are the extreme elements of the parties, they were all elected on manifesto's of leaving the eU and have now shat on their constituents by creating a remain group. In the next 3 years at most they with take almost £1/4million pounds each in pay + expenses on top whilst not representing the people that elected them. As they are so keen on the people having a say surely that should extend to their constituents.

as to losing to labour, labour are now polling on 26% when the tiggers are included and the tiggers on 14%, the tories on about 40%, it is not a foregone conclusion that labour would win their seats, or even that they would. Certainly, soubrey would lose. Both allens and woolestons constituencies are solid tory with handsome majorities.
None of these people have been brave to jump ship, nearly all of them were facing threat of deselection. they havent put country first they have put their bank balance.
Now comrade cob is trying to get recall legislation through to ensure people can get a ref, something I have been saying for quite some time, if you cross the floor or are booted out the party a by election should be called.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:25 pm

Thor wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I think a lot of people sick of the two party system might, it could also wipe out the Liberals.

An election this year though? I hadn't thought there would be, but I suppose if May ended up losing her cobbled together majority she might have to.

Not helpful to the UK right now; looking like coalitions are the future.

If an election is delayed by at least some agreement over brexit with the EU. Then I think, you may see a credible new party come to form, to fight in the next general election. Which at the latest would be may 2022. That is 3 years away. It all depends on how many more defect and I guess what happens with Brexit.

I would certainly vote for tham and I guess many others would, who are sick to death of the two main parties

I cannot see it being a no deal scenario. The EU would suffer too much economically also. To the point it would definately push them into recession. Something they can ill afford and also could push other nations to leave. So some compremise will no doubt happen and this will be pushed by the Germans in the end. As the leadership knows in Germany, they could lose big, with large job loses. To the Far right capitalizing on this.

we l;eave in 37 days, the choice is mays deal or wto. Mays deal is dead in the water. Extending art 50 is dead in the water as it requires 28 countries to agree. EU law says once art 50 is trigger there are 2 years for negotiations, that , by the way, is a maximum, not a requirement.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:27 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

I think a lot of people sick of the two party system might, it could also wipe out the Liberals.

An election this year though? I hadn't thought there would be, but I suppose if May ended up losing her cobbled together majority she might have to.

Not helpful to the UK right now; looking like coalitions are the future.

a lot of people who cannot get policies popular enough to win an election may well be fed up of it, however as has been shown coalitions are a terrible way to try and govern a peacetime country. the biggest coalition is the EU and they rarely agree on anything, but they do ride roughshod over the weaker countries.

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:30 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

If an election is delayed by at least some agreement over brexit with the EU. Then I think, you may see a credible new party come to form, to fight in the next general election. Which at the latest would be may 2022. That is 3 years away. It all depends on how many more defect and I guess what happens with Brexit.

I would certainly vote for tham and I guess many others would, who are sick to death of the two main parties

I cannot see it being a no deal scenario. The EU would suffer too much economically also. To the point it would definately push them into recession. Something they can ill afford and also could push other nations to leave. So some compremise will no doubt happen and this will be pushed by the Germans in the end. As the leadership knows in Germany, they could lose big, with large job loses. To the Far right capitalizing on this.

we l;eave in 37 days, the choice is mays deal or wto. Mays deal is dead in the water. Extending art 50 is dead in the water as it requires 28 countries to agree. EU law says once art 50 is trigger there are 2 years for negotiations, that , by the way, is a maximum, not a requirement.

There are many legal dont knows here

For example there is no law against reversing the decision or extending

Its also illegal to enforce a back stop by the EU, as there is already an agreement between the Irish and British with the Good Friday agreement. Which superscedes any EU ruling

So there is many "what if's and "unknowns" here with legality

I think we have to respect the decision and leave

I have no issue with that and believe an agreement will be reached

I also think a new party has the right to place in its manifesto the right to campaign to rejoin the EU, but with a view to reform the EU

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:34 pm

Thor wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:

we l;eave in 37 days, the choice is mays deal or wto. Mays deal is dead in the water. Extending art 50 is dead in the water as it requires 28 countries to agree. EU law says once art 50 is trigger there are 2 years for negotiations, that , by the way, is a maximum, not a requirement.

There are many legal dont knows here

For example there is no law against reversing the decision or extending

Its also illegal to enforce a back stop by the EU, as there is already an agreement between the Irish and British with the Good Friday agreement. Which superscedes any EU ruling

So there is many "what if's and "unknowns" here with legality

I think we have to respect the decision and leave

I have no issue with that and believe an agreement will be reached

I also think a new party has the right to place in its manifesto the right to campaign to rejoin the EU, but with a view to reform the EU

extending requires all 28 countries to agree. revoking would require parliament to revoke the EU withdrawal bill which is already law and enshrines march 29th as leaving day.
the EU has form for agreeing at the last minute as you will have seen if you watched the BBC series about the EU shown recently. However there is nothing they can agree about a trade deal in 37 days and there is more in the WA than just the backstop that ties us to the EU for decades if they chose.

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:40 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

There are many legal dont knows here

For example there is no law against reversing the decision or extending

Its also illegal to enforce a back stop by the EU, as there is already an agreement between the Irish and British with the Good Friday agreement. Which superscedes any EU ruling

So there is many "what if's and "unknowns" here with legality

I think we have to respect the decision and leave

I have no issue with that and believe an agreement will be reached

I also think a new party has the right to place in its manifesto the right to campaign to rejoin the EU, but with a view to reform the EU
extending requires all 28 countries to agree. revoking would require parliament to revoke the EU withdrawal bill which is already law and enshrines march 29th as leaving day.
the EU has form for agreeing at the last minute as you will have seen if you watched the BBC series about the EU shown recently. However there is nothing they can agree about a trade deal in 37 days and there is more in the WA than just the backstop that ties us to the EU for decades if they chose.

Its not even whether they agree or not, but whether they have the legal right to stop an extention. There is no view within article 50 to deny an extension. The fact is the EU is already looking to delay a no deal scenario with allowing for at least 9 months of continued travel of commerce and flights without hinderance.

At the end of the day the EU cannot force a backstop and again this would have to be an agreement the parties involved in the Good Friday agreement. Once an agreement is reached bweteen seperate nations, this is binding in International law. hence the EU really has no say in this and why they are trying to bully the Uk into submission over this. They simple cannot impose a backstop

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:47 pm

It’s not just the legality of the backstop under UK law and the Good Friday Agreement that is being challenged, now a leading legal firm has said that the backstop is also illegal under EU law.

HerbertSmithFreehills state in their latest ‘View From Brussels’ briefing that:

“on the basis of the EU’s own view of what is legally allowed under Article 50 and on the basis of which the negotiations proceeded, the backstop in its present form is illegal as a matter of EU law. The Attorney-General of the UK came to a similar conclusion in paragraph 17 of his advice to the government of 13 November 2018. It could also be argued that the backstop is inconsistent with the aim of the Treaty on the European Union to promote peace (expressed in its Article 3) since it is inconsistent with the institutional provisions of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement and therefore undermines it.”

There is also a formalised legal procedure in the EU for ensuring the legality of an envisaged international agreement set out under Article 218(11) of the TFEU, which could force the ECJ to give a ruling before 29th March. The backstop is only being kept alive by bluster from the EU – and the acquiescence of the UK…
h/t Henry Newman

UPDATE: One of the two co-authors of the briefing note, Eric White, was the head of the Trade and WTO Group of the European Commission’s Legal Service until two years ago. If even he thinks it’s illegal…

https://order-order.com/2019/02/06/top-law-firm-says-backstop-illegal-eu-law/

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:48 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Thor wrote:

I think so too mate. I also think this is just the beginning.

The view to form a party by another group has failed to materialise. Yet its taken disaffected politicians to leave both parties and I see more following suit. Which now could be the bases for a new party.

The Tories are already a two party system. Those that stand behind Rees-Mogg and Boris johnson, as hard brexiters and those that are remainers or soft brexiters.

I think we will have a general election this year and it will be fought over leaving or staying in (or rejoining the EU). If we get to a position where at least 50 MP's join this group. Then its going to get very interesting. Though, will they have enough time to formulate a viable manifesto?

I certainly will vote for them, but it means also that their goal if they stay in the EU, has to be fought also to change the EU. As at present its unworkable and becoming more and more totalitarian. I have been appaled at the antics of the EU, over this divorce. As they have been basically bullying the UK over this. That does not bode well for partnership. Though I am very much in the camp, that our future is best served as being part of the EU.

Now I know some will say we voted to leave the EU and I respect that referendum, but. If in a new election. People vote over whelmingly for a new party that wishes to be with the EU and we have left. Then by rejoining it has to be done based on comprimises that allow sovereignty
to the UK over its own laws.

I think a lot of people sick of the two party system might, it could also wipe out the Liberals.

An election this year though? I hadn't thought there would be, but I suppose if May ended up losing her cobbled together majority she might have to.

Not helpful to the UK right now; looking like coalitions are the future.
a lot of people who cannot get policies popular enough to win an election may well be fed up of it, however as has been shown coalitions are a terrible way to try and govern a peacetime country. the biggest coalition is the EU and they rarely agree on anything, but they do ride roughshod over the weaker countries.

I actually felt the Liberal Tory coalition was preferable to what we have now.

It isn't a god given right for Labour or Tory to govern.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:16 pm

Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
a lot of people who cannot get policies popular enough to win an election may well be fed up of it, however as has been shown coalitions are a terrible way to try and govern a peacetime country. the biggest coalition is the EU and they rarely agree on anything, but they do ride roughshod over the weaker countries.

I actually felt the Liberal Tory coalition was preferable to what we have now.

It isn't a god given right for Labour or Tory to govern.

of course it isn't, But what you are wishing for is a left wing government always being in power through coalitions. But a government that can govern is far preferable to one that has to horse trade their principles away. I would prefer a labour gov, to a lab/lib/snp gov just as I would prefer a tory gov to any other sort of coalition.

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:20 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:

I actually felt the Liberal Tory coalition was preferable to what we have now.

It isn't a god given right for Labour or Tory to govern.
of course it isn't, But what you are wishing for is a left wing government always being in power through coalitions. But a government that can govern is far preferable to one that has to horse trade their principles away. I would prefer a labour gov, to a lab/lib/snp gov just as I would prefer a tory gov to any other sort of coalition.

Sorry, but I do not perceive that from Eilzel's view point. he simple would prefer that governement over the current situation.

I would prefer a governement that has worked past differences they have

We did this in WW2 and it worked well. Most conservatives for example were against Churchill and yet was able to brigde both sides together

The reality is, you will find a better placed governement with people with differing views, if they place the country and people over their own beliefs.

So I once voted and believed Tory, but they like labour have become so poor, that they see its either them or Labour

Its no longer pratical and dividing this country.

i can think of no better a way, where dividing views of people through seperate parties come together for the greater good of the people and Country. It certainly works well in many other countries that do have coailitions. Its worked best in this country also in times of need

by Eilzel Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:36 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
a lot of people who cannot get policies popular enough to win an election may well be fed up of it, however as has been shown coalitions are a terrible way to try and govern a peacetime country. the biggest coalition is the EU and they rarely agree on anything, but they do ride roughshod over the weaker countries.

I actually felt the Liberal Tory coalition was preferable to what we have now.

It isn't a god given right for Labour or Tory to govern.
of course it isn't, But what you are wishing for is a left wing government always being in power through coalitions. But a government that can govern is far preferable to one that has to horse trade their principles away. I would prefer a labour gov, to a lab/lib/snp gov just as I would prefer a tory gov to any other sort of coalition.

Not strictly LW. The Liberal Tory coalition was not LW but was certainly the best option at the time. Better imo than the Tory majority that followed it and the Labour govt (under Brown) that preceeded it. A similar coalition could happen again.

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:06 pm

Remoaners just can't stop moaning and trying to cause trouble...!

They all need to fuk off!!!

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Remoaners just can't stop moaning and trying to cause trouble...!

They all need to fuk off!!!

wow, spoken like a true hateful extremist

So are you now against people having different views?

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:40 pm

Thor wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Remoaners just can't stop moaning and trying to cause trouble...!

They all need to fuk off!!!

wow, spoken like a true hateful extremist

So are you now against people having different views?

The tail does not wag the dog...!

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thor wrote:

wow, spoken like a true hateful extremist

So are you now against people having different views?

The tail does not wag the dog...!

WTF

So you are saying those who are against Brexit are unimportant?

Spoken again like a true advocate of totalitarianism

Why are they not important Tommy?

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:46 pm

The decision has been made... time to get on with leaving the EU... not continually still bitching and moaning about it and talking our country down!

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:50 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The decision has been made... time to get on with leaving the EU... not continually still bitching and moaning about it and talking our country down!

The decision has been made and I respect that decision

So will you repect a possible future decision to join again through the manifesto of a political party that wins a general election Tommy?

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:09 pm

These splitter MPs stood on their 2017 election manifesto promises to respect and uphold the referendum result and leave the EU...!

The decision has been made!!!

Time to get on with delivering our exit from the EU... not twisting and weaseling and trying to prevent us leaving the EU...!!!

Vast majority of UK constituencies voted to leave the EU!!!

So there is no chance of a remain party getting anywhere!!!

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

These splitter MPs stood on their 2017 election manifesto promises to respect and uphold the referendum result and leave the EU...!

The decision has been made!!!

Time to get on with delivering our exit from the EU... not twisting and weaseling and trying to prevent us leaving the EU...!!!

Vast majority of UK constituencies voted to leave the EU!!!

So there is no chance of a remain party getting anywhere!!!

The exit will happen

Nobody is denying that

What will you do though, if people vote in a party, that wishes to reverse this and rejoin the EU?

Are you going to respect that democracy Tommy?

by Tommy Monk Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:17 pm

Vast majority of UK constituencies voted leave...

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Vast majority of UK constituencies voted leave...

Yes and i respect that

So will you respect a future election based on rejoining. Where that party wins?

by Andy Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:40 pm

14% and growing.
Now 3rd.

I reckon a further number of Conservatives and Labour will also jump ship and join.
Vince Cable would be well advised to merge his LibDems with the Independents to form a Remaining, centre ground party, The IDP, Independant Democratic Party.
There will be differences, but they are all moderate and flexible, and could start a political revolution to take the place as a credible alternative.
Funding might be an issue, Labour depend on the unions and it's membership, Conservatives now depend on the shady money from the ERG (Russian?).
As a 3rd party , they will get funds from the taxpayer.

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:43 pm

Andy wrote:14% and growing.
Now 3rd.

I reckon a further number of Conservatives and Labour will also jump ship and join.
Vince Cable would be well advised to merge his LibDems with the Independents to form a Remaining, centre ground party, The IDP, Independant Democratic Party.
There will be differences, but they are all moderate and flexible, and could start a political revolution to take the place as a credible alternative.
Funding might be an issue, Labour depend on the unions and it's membership, Conservatives now depend on the shady money from the ERG (Russian?).
As a 3rd party , they will get funds from the taxpayer.

My vote is with this new bunch of Mp's Andy

I think we are seeing the end of tired politics in the UK

by Andy Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:52 pm

I'm with you, Thor.
Centre ground and moderate.
Beats radical extremism every day.
Watch the extremists howl in anguish.

https://mol.im/a/6725045

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:55 pm

Thor wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
extending requires all 28 countries to agree. revoking would require parliament to revoke the EU withdrawal bill which is already law and enshrines march 29th as leaving day.
the EU has form for agreeing at the last minute as you will have seen if you watched the BBC series about the EU shown recently. However there is nothing they can agree about a trade deal in 37 days and there is more in the WA than just the backstop that ties us to the EU for decades if they chose.

Its not even whether they agree or not, but whether they have the legal right to stop an extention. There is no view within article 50 to deny an extension. The fact is the EU is already looking to delay a no deal scenario with allowing for at least 9 months of continued travel of commerce and flights without hinderance.

At the end of the day the EU cannot force a backstop and again this would have to be an agreement the parties involved in the Good Friday agreement. Once an agreement is reached bweteen seperate nations, this is binding in International law. hence the EU really has no say in this and why they are trying to bully the Uk into submission over this. They simple cannot impose a backstop

all 28 countries have to agree

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:56 pm

Eilzel wrote:
The Devil, You Know wrote:
of course it isn't, But what you are wishing for is a left wing government always being in power through coalitions. But a government that can govern is far preferable to one that has to horse trade their principles away. I would prefer a labour gov, to a lab/lib/snp gov just as I would prefer a tory gov to any other sort of coalition.

Not strictly LW. The Liberal Tory coalition was not LW but was certainly the best option at the time. Better imo than the Tory majority that followed it and the Labour govt (under Brown) that preceeded it. A similar coalition could happen again.

not the best option, the only option, labour could not have created a majority gov even with the ld's

by Guest Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:57 pm

The Devil, You Know wrote:
Thor wrote:

Its not even whether they agree or not, but whether they have the legal right to stop an extention. There is no view within article 50 to deny an extension. The fact is the EU is already looking to delay a no deal scenario with allowing for at least 9 months of continued travel of commerce and flights without hinderance.

At the end of the day the EU cannot force a backstop and again this would have to be an agreement the parties involved in the Good Friday agreement. Once an agreement is reached bweteen seperate nations, this is binding in International law. hence the EU really has no say in this and why they are trying to bully the Uk into submission over this. They simple cannot impose a backstop
all 28 countries have to agree

Do they?

They cannot supercede international law

That is where we have the EU by the balls

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:58 pm

Thor wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The tail does not wag the dog...!

WTF

So you are saying those who are against Brexit are unimportant?

Spoken again like a true advocate of totalitarianism

Why are they not important Tommy?

those who are against brexit are against votes altogether that dont go their own way. By all means have another vote if they can find a party willing to campaign on re joining and then win an election. Until then the people have spoken

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:59 pm

Thor wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Vast majority of UK constituencies voted leave...

Yes and i respect that

So will you respect a future election based on rejoining. Where that party wins?

if a party can win a GE on that ticket and then a ref on it then yes it has to be respected until another party comes along to over turn it.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Andy wrote:14% and growing.
Now 3rd.

I reckon a further number of Conservatives and Labour will also jump ship and join.
Vince Cable would be well advised to merge his LibDems with the Independents to form a Remaining, centre ground party, The IDP, Independant Democratic Party.
There will be differences, but they are all moderate and flexible, and could start a political revolution to take the place as a credible alternative.
Funding might be an issue, Labour depend on the unions and it's membership, Conservatives now depend on the shady money from the ERG (Russian?).
As a 3rd party , they will get funds from the taxpayer.

the problem is the more tories that jump ship make the govs majority less and less and at some point a no confidence vote may be called that they would not win, except the last people to want an election would be the TIGs as they would be wiped out at an election which is why they are not calling by elections.
the best move for the gov and brexit is for the gov to call a no confidence vote in itself at the end of feb so brexit passes by default as parliament is dissolved. the tories can field brexit candidates in all the remainiac seats and labour can probably get some proper nazi's in to complete the complete downfall.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:03 pm

Thor wrote:
Andy wrote:14% and growing.
Now 3rd.

I reckon a further number of Conservatives and Labour will also jump ship and join.
Vince Cable would be well advised to merge his LibDems with the Independents to form a Remaining, centre ground party, The IDP, Independant Democratic Party.
There will be differences, but they are all moderate and flexible, and could start a political revolution to take the place as a credible alternative.
Funding might be an issue, Labour depend on the unions and it's membership, Conservatives now depend on the shady money from the ERG (Russian?).
As a 3rd party , they will get funds from the taxpayer.

My vote is with this new bunch of Mp's Andy

I think we are seeing the end of tired politics in the UK

this lot would be out at the first election.

by The Devil, You Know Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:04 pm

Andy wrote:I'm with you, Thor.
Centre ground and moderate.
Beats radical extremism every day.
Watch the extremists howl in anguish.

https://mol.im/a/6725045

they are not centre ground and they are not moderate. But it is good to see you agree with soubrey that the govs policy of austerity has worked.

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