I dreamed a dream.

I defy anyone to watch this and not be moved. (I cried)  

"In the heartbreakingly powerful 2016 animation “Dream”, created for the Wildlife Conservation Film Festival by Zombie Studio, four very different, critically endangered animals sing “I Dreamed a Dream” from the Les Misérables soundtrack. With the lyrics of the particular song, each animal – a blue whale, a brown pelican, a baby harp seal and a rhinoceros – tell of their own own fate by human hands."



https://laughingsquid.com/endangered-animals-sing-i-dreamed-a-dream/

Well this is the problem. Other animal species, certainly do not hunt other species to extinction or are unlikely to effect athe balance with nature. As humans do with urbinization, poluution, wars etc. We are unable to actually communicate with them. If we actually did. Then we might actually open up to the harm of how Human expansionism. Is causing them so much harm.

So is our planet worth more than our own selfish needs through civilization and technology advancements? Do we go back to hunter gatherer lifestyles and ensure the future of this planet. Or continue to think of ourselves and watch it slowly implode around us? Or is  technology, able to turn this all around and help the plant become balanced again?

I doubt anyone is going to make the choice to revert to hunter gatherer lifestyles. As so much has already been changed beyond measure. I doubt many could survive based on a hunter gatherer lifestyle, where people only hunted what they needed.

If its technology, then we have to colonise other planets elsewhere and help remove a massive burden on this planet through our needs, elsewhere.

So would people make a choice of a selfish deed for the entire planet over their own needs?

A thought provoking question, which each individual should answer for themselves.

We need to rapidly switch to renewable clean energy and take control of the expansion of the human population. We're rapidly using up this planet, and even colonizing Mars is too distant a dream to make any bit of difference at this point.

Not to mention, you know, showing a little respect for our home and the only planet that we know for certain has supported an overwhelming variety of life for millions of years.

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:We need to rapidly switch to renewable clean energy and take control of the expansion of the human population. We're rapidly using up this planet, and even colonizing Mars is too distant a dream to make any bit of difference at this point.

Not to mention, you know, showing a little respect for our home and the only planet that we know for certain has supported an overwhelming variety of life for millions of years.

But, its like i waatched that young lady that was at the UN. Saying we should be all in fear of the future and I thought, but what would you do that was selfesh here? If the panent really mattered. Are not humans the constant problem here?

So no matter how much respect shown, is going to change little the effects, as is easlily shown by how again humans are again self centered. They are also rightly a species that wants to continue to exist. So will do many things to ensure this continues as a collective group. Yet they are very much a prejudiced group, more so again other species.

Hence the reality is, even the most ardent animal rights activist when never even contemplate the questions I pose. They just as they cast blame on many other humans, as selfish themselves. As if we really cared, we would recognise we are the problem, and remove ourself from the situation. Yet that would be abhorant to even contemtplate such a situation and would be genocide.

So to me technology is the answer, whether that be under the sea, or on other planets, but humans have to address the balance of humans here, through a means that does not hurt anyone or anything.

There are two problems on a collision course.

One is economic/government systems that are a giant Ponzi scheme requiring more workers to take care of the non workers. Mostly older people that have the damn inconsideration to not die as soon as our ancestors. The other problem is finite resources and a limited amount of room for all of the living creatures. But it's not really as bad as the doomsayers like to say. We are developing new technology all of the time.

As for the worker shortage in western countries, the other countries are breeding fast enough that all we need is immigration to keep us going for awhile.

Maddog wrote:There are two problems on a collision course.

One is economic/government systems that are a giant Ponzi scheme requiring more workers to take care of the non workers. Mostly older people that have the damn inconsideration to not die as soon as our ancestors. The other problem is finite resources and a limited amount of room for all of the living creatures. But it's not really as bad as the doomsayers like to say. We are developing new technology all of the time.

As for the worker shortage in western countries, the other countries are breeding fast enough that all we need is immigration to keep us going for awhile.  

How does that factor in to the plight of the planet and many animals?

We use natural elements in order for humans to live longer. Whether that comes with techonological advancements

I agree we are developing many tecnologies, but it is as bad as some clearly do not want to even comtemplate

I mean how many more extreme weather situations is the earth experincing and in such a short time frame for you to even consider that it could be?

The reality is simple this. Humans are detrimentally having a massive adverse effect on the climate

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:There are two problems on a collision course.

One is economic/government systems that are a giant Ponzi scheme requiring more workers to take care of the non workers. Mostly older people that have the damn inconsideration to not die as soon as our ancestors. The other problem is finite resources and a limited amount of room for all of the living creatures. But it's not really as bad as the doomsayers like to say. We are developing new technology all of the time.

As for the worker shortage in western countries, the other countries are breeding fast enough that all we need is immigration to keep us going for awhile.  

How does that factor in to the plight of the planet and many animals?

We use natural elements in order for humans to live longer. Whether that comes with techonological advancements

I agree we are developing many tecnologies, but it is as bad as some clearly do not want to even comtemplate

I mean how many more extreme weather situations is the earth experincing and in such a short time frame for you to even consider that it could be?

The reality is simple this. Humans are detrimentally having a massive adverse effect on the climate

Animals are screwed if we don't get a handle on bad government. Look at the animals in Venezuela. People are eating them all, and could care less what kind.

Even in Africa, as soon as a country starts going tit's up, the flora and fauna are the first sacrificed.

Look at satellite images of Haiti and the Dominican. Same island, two different governments.

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:

How does that factor in to the plight of the planet and many animals?

We use natural elements in order for humans to live longer. Whether that comes with techonological advancements

I agree we are developing many tecnologies, but it is as bad as some clearly do not want to even comtemplate

I mean how many more extreme weather situations is the earth experincing and in such a short time frame for you to even consider that it could be?

The reality is simple this. Humans are detrimentally having a massive adverse effect on the climate

Animals are screwed if we don't get a handle on bad government. Look at the animals in Venezuela. People are eating them all, and could care less what kind.

Even in Africa, as soon as a country starts going tit's up, the flora and fauna are the first sacrificed.

Look at satellite images of Haiti and the Dominican. Same island, two different governments.

So that comes to my view, point, humans are the problems right?

Hence why not answer my original points?

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Animals are screwed if we don't get a handle on bad government. Look at the animals in Venezuela. People are eating them all, and could care less what kind.

Even in Africa, as soon as a country starts going tit's up, the flora and fauna are the first sacrificed.

Look at satellite images of Haiti and the Dominican. Same island, two different governments.

So that comes to my view, point, humans are the problems right?

Hence why not answer my original points?

Humans are the problem and the solution. It's not like animals are going to form workable systems that protect the inhabitants of an area, and its resources.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/12/12/16766872/overpopulation-exaggerated-concern-climate-change-world-population

And Vox is a left wing site.

As long as we manage things, we will be fine. We just can't let the kind of people that think Venezuela had a good system, be in charge of much.

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:

So that comes to my view, point, humans are the problems right?

Hence why not answer my original points?

Humans are the problem and the solution. It's not like animals are going to form workable systems that protect the inhabitants of an area, and its resources.

No humans are the problem for the imbalance and have failed since to find the solution

As they are inherantly selfish

Humans once lived as animals, as we still are animals.

We are never going to proect their habitable areas, the more we need food resources and take to changing land for farming and animal husbandry

You really need to think the thought provoking view I am asking here.

Can you be selfless mate

Night

Will catch up tomorrow

Maddog wrote:There are two problems on a collision course.

One is economic/government systems that are a giant Ponzi scheme requiring more workers to take care of the non workers. Mostly older people that have the damn inconsideration to not die as soon as our ancestors. The other problem is finite resources and a limited amount of room for all of the living creatures. But it's not really as bad as the doomsayers like to say. We are developing new technology all of the time.

As for the worker shortage in western countries, the other countries are breeding fast enough that all we need is immigration to keep us going for awhile.  

And that entire model is borne out of the ever-expanding human population. If we start to actually shrink the population, we'll have to come up with a new model of self sustenance. Can't help but think it will be better than the current one.

None of this will stop. Not while humans want money

Thor wrote:
As humans do with urbinization, poluution, wars etc. …...

. . .  

Deforestation - the worst part of urbanisation.

And diversion or even damming up of major rivers. The folks downstream suffer greatly too.

Reckless innit?

Night Thor!

This planet will still be around for a few billion years yet..

Humanity most likely won't be..


Mankind can't help itself --  no matter how selfless individuals, communities and even some societies may think and act in response to the Earth's welfare,  human beings have been on a self-destructive bent since the rise of the earliest 'civilisations' some 10,000 years ago.

Some peoples will always want more;
Countries covet their neighbours resources;
Polluters refuse to take responsibility;
"Timber getters", "fishers" and miners have no interest in conserving, extending or 'farming' their resources --  but keep on plundering, then claim a "god given right" to new 'green field' sites;
Big commercialised 'factory farms', their agribusiness suppliers, mining&oil corp'ns, 'BigPharma' interests, and their financiers, all put money before all else, corrupting governments along the way.


Pre-humans climbed down from the trees and walked upright maybe 1 -->> 1.5 million years ago ?   The first Homo sapiens coming out of Central Africa maybe 200 -- 250,000 years ago..

In comparison, the dinosaurs disappeared some 65 million years ago --  after "ruling the world" for more than 60 million years, maybe over a hundred million years...

Does anyone here really believe that mankind will even reach it's first million years  ?

Thor wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Humans are the problem and the solution. It's not like animals are going to form workable systems that protect the inhabitants of an area, and its resources.

No humans are the problem for the imbalance and have failed since to find the solution

As they are inherantly selfish

Humans once lived as animals, as we still are animals.

We are never going to proect their habitable areas, the more we need food resources and take to changing land for farming and animal husbandry

You really need to think the thought provoking view I am asking here.

Can you be selfless mate

Night

Will catch up tomorrow

You're a human and you seem to be able to grasp the problems facing us. No other animal on this planets can comprehend the idea of limited resources, so it's going to be up to us to deal with it.  I'm the eternal optimist. 

Let's not forget that starvation was supposed to be an epidemic by now, and we have the smallest number of people starving in recorded history, even with the highest population.

Maddog wrote:

Thor wrote:

No humans are the problem for the imbalance and have failed since to find the solution

As they are inherantly selfish

Humans once lived as animals, as we still are animals.

We are never going to proect their habitable areas, the more we need food resources and take to changing land for farming and animal husbandry

You really need to think the thought provoking view I am asking here.

Can you be selfless mate

Night

Will catch up tomorrow

You're a human and you seem to be able to grasp the problems facing us. No other animal on this planets can comprehend the idea of limited resources, so it's going to be up to us to deal with it.  I'm the eternal optimist. 

Let's not forget that starvation was supposed to be an epidemic by now, and we have the smallest number of people starving in recorded history, even with the highest population.

I understand its up to humans to help deal with this. Its also technological advancements or in some cases using previous better methods. Like farming methods of the Mesoamericans. So I am always optimistic, but resources are always finate and not infinate. Where in reality it is humans that effect the balance of nature. Also crops are reliant on the balance of weather.

My point is a pandemic, which is long overdue according to science. Could also bring about a solution, a devsating tragic one to humans. What people class as mother natures way to bring about balance. Which could also change the balance to the planet. Of course I do not want this to happen, but just showing the other side to this.

At the end of the day, humans will no doubt colonize the seas, with underworlds and no doubt places like near distant moons. Like our own and ones like Titan