More Merkel legacy...

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:14 pm

Police are looking for two further suspects in the case of an alleged gang rape of an 18-year-old woman in the southwestern German city of Freiburg.

Eight men are already in custody connected to the case...

It is understood the woman had left the club and the main suspect, a 22-year-old man, had gone with her. The victim was then allegedly raped. The man then reportedly went back to the club where he told other men that the woman was defenceless outside, and other men reportedly raped her.

The 22-year-old suspect was described by police as a multiple offender and is suspected of being involved in another case of sexual assault.

The eight suspects in custody are seven Syrian men aged 19 to 29-years-old...

https://www.thelocal.de/20181102/two-more-suspects-being-sought-in-alleged-gang-rape-in-freiburg/amp

AND...

Vigilantes patrol streets of Germany after migrant gang attack 'We WILL create protection'

The patrols come after four teenagers, from Syria, Iran and Afghanistan, targeted passers-by in a series of “random” attacks in Amberg last Saturday.

Witnesses claim the migrants falsely accused people of insulting them before they launched their assault.

Eyewitnesses say a man was pushed down a flight of stairs, while a 17-year-old was taken to hospital with a head injury.

...four migrants left 12 people aged 13 to 42 injured in a series of unprovoked assaults last weekend.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1067172/germany-migrant-attack-Amberg-vigilante-patrol-NPD-germany-news/amp

There is a huge backlash looming...

by Ben Reilly Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:41 pm

They should backlash against their own people, surely there are more than a dozen native born criminals in Germany.

by 'Wolfie Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:54 pm

White folk don't produce rapists, in Tommy's fantasy world...

Where Tommy comes from, all rapists are dark sinned, either bowing to Mecca 5 times a day or praying to multi-armed Gods..

If the assailants are white-skinned thugs, they must be merely misunderstood good "Christian 'lads'", out to take back their God-given rights.

by Raggamuffin Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:55 pm

You're both missing the point. Merkel invited a lot of asylum seekers/migrants into Germany, and if these people are committing crimes there will be a backlash against her and against letting anyone else in.

by Original Quill Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:02 pm

Prime candidates for our Supreme Court. cheers

by nicko Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:18 pm

Raggs is correct .and so is Tommy. Ben and Wolfie are in cloud Cuckoo land !

by Original Quill Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:27 pm

nicko wrote:Raggs is correct .and so is Tommy. Ben and Wolfie are in cloud Cuckoo land !

Please don't tell me you believe this story. Mad

by nicko Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:48 pm

I read the papers and watch TV, Al jazzera are truthful, Plus, best of all, I have a couple of ex Squaddie friends who live there. Who do you have ?

by Original Quill Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:57 pm

nicko wrote:I read the papers and watch TV, Al jazzera are truthful, Plus, best of all, I have a couple of ex Squaddie friends who live there. Who do you have ?

It didn't even make the papers over here. When I see stories like this I figger someone's seeking money somewhere.

These stories have a lot of front-end, but when they peter out you never hear about the back-end. I guess the lesson is: news is entertainment.

by Raggamuffin Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:01 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:I read the papers and watch TV, Al jazzera are truthful, Plus, best of all, I have a couple of ex Squaddie friends who live there. Who do you have ?

It didn't even make the papers over here. When I see stories like this I figger someone's seeking money somewhere.

These stories have a lot of front-end, but when they peter out you never hear about the back-end. I guess the lesson is: news is entertainment.

That applies to a lot of news stories though.

by Original Quill Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:09 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

It didn't even make the papers over here. When I see stories like this I figger someone's seeking money somewhere.

These stories have a lot of front-end, but when they peter out you never hear about the back-end. I guess the lesson is: news is entertainment.

That applies to a lot of news stories though.

Like I say: down deep, it's entertainment.

by Ben Reilly Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:18 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:You're both missing the point. Merkel invited a lot of asylum seekers/migrants into Germany, and if these people are committing crimes there will be a backlash against her and against letting anyone else in.

Okay, let me put this as clearly as I possibly can.

Presumably, the people who backlash against Merkel will say they don't like the crimes committed by this small minority of asylum seekers, right?

So they don't like crime, right?

So why is there no backlash against Merkel's handing of crime in general? Why only against Merkel's handling of the small minority of asylum seekers who commit crimes?

You see, this isn't about being anti-crime. It's about being anti-asylum seekers.

Or do people not realize they're far more likely, in Germany, to be victimized by a native-born criminal than by an asylum seeker?

by Raggamuffin Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:17 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:You're both missing the point. Merkel invited a lot of asylum seekers/migrants into Germany, and if these people are committing crimes there will be a backlash against her and against letting anyone else in.

Okay, let me put this as clearly as I possibly can.

Presumably, the people who backlash against Merkel will say they don't like the crimes committed by this small minority of asylum seekers, right?

So they don't like crime, right?

So why is there no backlash against Merkel's handing of crime in general? Why only against Merkel's handling of the small minority of asylum seekers who commit crimes?

You see, this isn't about being anti-crime. It's about being anti-asylum seekers.

Or do people not realize they're far more likely, in Germany, to be victimized by a native-born criminal than by an asylum seeker?

You're still missing the point. I'm presuming of course that the perps of these crimes are asylum seekers/migrants. The point is that these asylum seekers were invited in because they said they were suffering. They were invited in to save them. For some of them to then go on to commit crimes is showing intolerable ingratitude.

Germany can't do much about German citizens who commit crimes, other than to punish them by the usual means.

by HoratioTarr Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:31 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:You're both missing the point. Merkel invited a lot of asylum seekers/migrants into Germany, and if these people are committing crimes there will be a backlash against her and against letting anyone else in.

Okay, let me put this as clearly as I possibly can.

Presumably, the people who backlash against Merkel will say they don't like the crimes committed by this small minority of asylum seekers, right?

So they don't like crime, right?

So why is there no backlash against Merkel's handing of crime in general? Why only against Merkel's handling of the small minority of asylum seekers who commit crimes?

You see, this isn't about being anti-crime. It's about being anti-asylum seekers.

Or do people not realize they're far more likely, in Germany, to be victimized by a native-born criminal than by an asylum seeker?

That's not the point. The point is...you can't change human nature. Human nature dictates that even if a minority commit a crime, if you don't belong to the same tribe, then fear often reigns. You see it everywhere. Past and present. With all cultures. It will never change. That's why people get bullied for being different. Or why mobs pillage and riot. Or why middle aged men in football crowds turn into racist monsters. It's in us. All of us. To a greater or lesser degree. It's part of the reptilian brain. It's why people with dementia often behave badly, the neomammalian brain deteriorates to the point that it can no longer regulate the reptilian brain, so primitive urges are acted upon. Put people into positions they find intolerable, or when they feel threatened, and that's what kicks in. The reptilian brain is responsible for our species’ instinctual needs.

That's not to say we all succumb to it. But many do. It's my bet the people of Germany never really wanted such an influx into their country, so now they have an excuse to rebel.

by Victorismyhero Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:21 pm

what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

by Original Quill Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:50 pm

Lord Foul wrote:what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

Where did you get your statistics?

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:10 pm

Original Quill wrote:
nicko wrote:Raggs is correct .and so is Tommy. Ben and Wolfie are in cloud Cuckoo land !

Please don't tell me you believe this story.

The OP is two different stories... two out of a huge number of stories about very serious violent attacks by muslem asylum seeker immigrants in Germany against the indigenous non muslem people... and all very real!!!

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Okay, let me put this as clearly as I possibly can.

Presumably, the people who backlash against Merkel will say they don't like the crimes committed by this small minority of asylum seekers, right?

So they don't like crime, right?

So why is there no backlash against Merkel's handing of crime in general? Why only against Merkel's handling of the small minority of asylum seekers who commit crimes?

You see, this isn't about being anti-crime. It's about being anti-asylum seekers.

Or do people not realize they're far more likely, in Germany, to be victimized by a native-born criminal than by an asylum seeker?

You're still missing the point. I'm presuming of course that the perps of these crimes are asylum seekers/migrants. The point is that these asylum seekers were invited in because they said they were suffering. They were invited in to save them. For some of them to then go on to commit crimes is showing intolerable ingratitude.

Germany can't do much about German citizens who commit crimes, other than to punish them by the usual means.

Green from me.

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:02 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Please don't tell me you believe this story.

The OP is two different stories... two out of a huge number of stories about very serious violent attacks by muslem asylum seeker immigrants in Germany against the indigenous non muslem people... and all very real!!!

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:39 am

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The OP is two different stories... two out of a huge number of stories about very serious violent attacks by muslem asylum seeker immigrants in Germany against the indigenous non muslem people... and all very real!!!

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

by HoratioTarr Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:04 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

What she said

by Tommy Monk Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Quill... just because you don't see something... doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

You can do your own research to see for yourself... I'm not doing your homework for you...

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:21 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

+1

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

The proof was in the fact: the children were in the custody of the US government, and the US government was responsible for them and anything that happened to them. That's the responsibility you undertake when you take a person into custody.

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:53 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

The proof was in the fact: the children were in the custody of the US government, and the US government was responsible for them and anything that happened to them. That's the responsibility you undertake when you take a person into custody.

Utter and complete gibberish. Which by such daft reasoning, would mean every single death in a nation, be it from old age, illness to desease. Would be the responsibility of the government

Rags simple and rightly pulled out yet again your double standards on reporting

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Quill... just because you don't see something... doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

No, but the reverse is also the case: "Could have" and "might have" do not establish that it happened either. The fact that jumps out at any rational person is that tommy is a liar, touting these unsubstantiated, fake stories to promote his neo-Nazi agenda.

by Fred Moletrousers Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

The OP is two different stories... two out of a huge number of stories about very serious violent attacks by muslem asylum seeker immigrants in Germany against the indigenous non muslem people... and all very real!!!

I haven't seen those “huge number of stories”. They are very serious charges. So as a good skeptic I don't believe they exist until I see proof.

You see, doubt is important because these stories are how Hitler and Trump got started. No foundation. No basis in fact. Just find the people you, yourself, have cheated, and tell them these are the people that are the source of their problems. Create a few stories, select a few matches, and presto---out of nothing, you create a movement.

Oh, and make sure those people are a part of the "other" people, so you can create a clear division. You need to tell your own followers that "those people" are alien, and only you can tell what they are like. That establishes your cred. Division is so important, because there will always be those enemies who require actual proof.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

This was just one of the multiple incidents that have occurred in Europe, and perhaps the most infamous one.

Here in Britain at least one town has experienced mass organised grooming, assault, enforced prostitution and rape of young women and girls by gangs of predominently Asian men...something which both the police and local authority later admitted had been deliberately covered up "...in the interests of social cohesion."

The revelations triggered off similar reports from other parts of the country.

The unintended "victims" of the hatred and opprobrium are, of course, all those perfectly decent, moral and hard-working immigrants who emigrate to seek a better life for themselves and their families and who must feel just as much if not more anger, as well as fear, as anyone else because of the prospect of guilt by association.

It is all well and good for people like Wolfie and yourself to be so smugly dismissive of such incidents in many parts of Europe, and virtually to condemn as liars and racists posters in this forum who probably absolutely dread that it could only be a matter of time before one of their own family could be targeted by these disgusting criminal monsters.

I have a 17 year old grand daughter living in a town with a very high concentration of young recent immigrant males, often associating in gangs, of both Asian and African origin, and I know that I certainly live in fear of the prospect...as, I suspect, do many established Asian and African families themselves.

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:34 pm

Fred M. wrote:It is all well and good for people like Wolfie and yourself to be so smugly dismissive of such incidents in many parts of Europe, and virtually to condemn as liars and racists posters in this forum who probably absolutely dread that it could only be a matter of time before one of their own family could be targeted by these disgusting criminal monsters.

I don't think it's "smugly dismissive" to require facts. If there is a real victim here, it's truth as defined when I went to school.

Truth is fidelity to the standard of verification. Tommy tries to evade truth when he speaks of "huge number of stories", with nothing more. In doing so, he abdicates the obligation of verification. To say "do your own research" is to leave me to my own devices.

I’ve already mentioned that central to my “devices” is skepticism. But, beyond mere skepticism is the concern for the rise of untruth as a political weapon.

What do you call someone who weaponizes untruth? Tommy speaks of “huge number of stories”, without more? What do you say about someone who says that shadows are as illuminating as the sunlight? If not a ‘liar’, perhaps a ‘prevaricator’: one who deviates from truth? Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Maybe that sanitizes the word ‘lying’, but the result is the same. Tommy is doing a political act in weaponizing untruth. His concern is not to quibble over definitions, but to spread a blanket of falsehood in order to start, or perpetuate a racist movement.

Just so we understand one another, Fred, that's what you are defending.

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:46 pm

The four migrants injured 12 people in attacks in Amberg, Bavaria, last Saturday

Head of police union said they should only be free when they are returned home

The attacks have prompted members of a neo-Nazi linked party to stage patrols

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6556987/German-police-chief-condemns-migrants-attacked-12-people.html

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:46 pm

A migrant gang left 12 people aged 13 to 42 injured after carrying out random attacks and hurling racist abuse in a German city, it has been reported.

Four teenagers - from Iran, Syria and Afghanistan - are said to have targeted passers-by in the Bavarian city of Amberg.

Eyewitnesses claim a man was pushed down a flight of stairs while a 17-year-old was left needing hospital treatment for a head injury.

Germany's Interior Minister Horst Seehofer said he was 'dismayed' by the events in Amberg adding: 'If asylum seekers commit violent crimes, they must leave our country.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6547181/Migrant-gang-leave-12-injured-carrying-random-attacks-random-attacks-German-city.html

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:49 pm

Specifically, we are talking about the "huge number of stories" that tommy mentioned, but couldn't identify.

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:51 pm

Original Quill wrote:Specifically, we are talking about the "huge number of stories" that tommy mentioned, but couldn't identify.

There is plenty, hence why do you think there has been a rise in vigilante gangs to counter this?

Why do you think also the far right has gained support?

Its because there has been countless attacks

But sadly your brain cannot compute facts

I dont want to see the rise of the far right, but they are able to drum up support because of the many attacks

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:54 pm

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:00 pm

Thor wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

Bloomberg wrote:Bloomberg Opinion

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:01 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-03/germany-must-come-to-terms-with-refugee-crime

Bloomberg wrote:Bloomberg Opinion

You never read the article did you

It has plenty of facts

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Specifically, we are talking about the "huge number of stories" that tommy mentioned, but couldn't identify.

There is plenty, hence why do you think there has been a rise in vigilante gangs to counter this?

Why do you think also the far right has gained support?

Its because there has been countless attacks

But sadly your brain cannot compute facts

I dont want to see the rise of the far right, but they are able to drum up support because of the many attacks

That's the movement that is being fed by creating the impression that this is real. It's not.

It's all drummed up by people like tommy, talking about "huge number of stories".

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:05 pm

Thor wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

You never read the article did you

It has plenty of facts

The story is the same thing.

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thor wrote:

You never read the article did you

It has plenty of facts

The story is the same thing.

Then you have just exposed yourself to lying yet again

Its seems this is your deluded stance on anything, deny facts, when they are contrary to your warp beliefs

It doers not matter, everyone else can see you are yet again being an idiot

I usggest you read the article again

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:33 pm

Lord Foul wrote:what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

Studies show that immigrants and asylum seekers typically commit fewer crimes than the native-born population. You'll have to prove that a disproportionate number of asylum seekers are criminals, and you haven't.

Of course some of the asylum seekers are going to be disingenuous criminals. You don't stop allowing people asylum in your country because a few of them aren't genuine. If so, you may as well disband the police force because they can't prevent/solve 100 percent of crimes.

by nicko Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:43 pm

Ben, some times you can be very naïve !

by Original Quill Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:47 pm

Naiveté is like skepticism...it keeps you from making mistakes.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:24 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

You didn't require proof when you were accusing the US Government and border officials of killing children.

The proof was in the fact: the children were in the custody of the US government, and the US government was responsible for them and anything that happened to them. That's the responsibility you undertake when you take a person into custody.

They're not responsible for someone dying of natural causes. Also, you went further than that and even said that they were murdered. You also invented a story of the border officials forcing the hospital to release the seong child. I suggest that you won't accept this story because the alleged perps are not white, whereas you're very quick to accuse white people of harming non-white people.

You need to stop cherry picking.

by Raggamuffin Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:27 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

Studies show that immigrants and asylum seekers typically commit fewer crimes than the native-born population. You'll have to prove that a disproportionate number of asylum seekers are criminals, and you haven't.

Of course some of the asylum seekers are going to be disingenuous criminals. You don't stop allowing people asylum in your country because a few of them aren't genuine. If so, you may as well disband the police force because they can't prevent/solve 100 percent of crimes.

The issue isn't whether they're genuine or not. One can be a genuine asylum seeker and still commit a crime. The fact that they've been given shelter in another country makes it worse because it shows a lack of gratitude.

by HoratioTarr Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:47 pm

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

Studies show that immigrants and asylum seekers typically commit fewer crimes than the native-born population. You'll have to prove that a disproportionate number of asylum seekers are criminals, and you haven't.

Of course some of the asylum seekers are going to be disingenuous criminals. You don't stop allowing people asylum in your country because a few of them aren't genuine. If so, you may as well disband the police force because they can't prevent/solve 100 percent of crimes.

Of course studies show this. The percent of immigrants to natives is less, so there's no comparison with the figures.

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:18 pm

nicko wrote:Ben, some times you can be very naïve !

Nicko, sometimes you can be very simple!

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:18 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:
Lord Foul wrote:what the apologists fail to recognise, time and time again is that these "others" bring with them a disproportionate number of ner do wells. so if the % of crims in native german population is say 5% then the outsiders comprise of 12 % (not actual figures, used for reference only..) you can check this by looking on govt websites that declare the origins of criminals............

so in truth if you are approached by a group of people you are in fact more than twice as likely to be assaulted by "them others" than you are by your fellow citizen in any given encounter.....

of course this is somewhat offset by the frequency of encounters.......

however......................

Studies show that immigrants and asylum seekers typically commit fewer crimes than the native-born population. You'll have to prove that a disproportionate number of asylum seekers are criminals, and you haven't.

Of course some of the asylum seekers are going to be disingenuous criminals. You don't stop allowing people asylum in your country because a few of them aren't genuine. If so, you may as well disband the police force because they can't prevent/solve 100 percent of crimes.

Of course studies show this. The percent of immigrants to natives is less, so there's no comparison with the figures.

No, studies done in places with a large community of immigrants show they commit fewer crimes than native-born people. It's okay, Trump has struggled to accept this FACT as well.

by eddie Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:24 pm

Aren’t there any German-born rapists then? Or am I missing the point? scratch

by Guest Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:34 pm

eddie wrote:Aren’t there any German-born rapists then? Or am I missing the point?

yes there are

yes you are

by Ben Reilly Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:44 pm

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:Aren’t there any German-born rapists then? Or am I missing the point?

yes there are

yes you are

Nobody seems to be able to articulate "the point," then.

Which is, you don't mind crime. You just mind it when non-natives commit it.

Which means it's not about crime, it's about race or religion.

If I was wrong, I would expect to see equal reporting on crimes committed by native-borns here.

Seeing as I don't ... do you see MY point?

by Fred Moletrousers Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Fred M. wrote:It is all well and good for people like Wolfie and yourself to be so smugly dismissive of such incidents in many parts of Europe, and virtually to condemn as liars and racists posters in this forum who probably absolutely dread that it could only be a matter of time before one of their own family could be targeted by these disgusting criminal monsters.

I don't think it's "smugly dismissive" to require facts. If there is a real victim here, it's truth as defined when I went to school.

Truth is fidelity to the standard of verification. Tommy tries to evade truth when he speaks of "huge number of stories", with nothing more. In doing so, he abdicates the obligation of verification. To say "do your own research" is to leave me to my own devices.

I’ve already mentioned that central to my “devices” is skepticism. But, beyond mere skepticism is the concern for the rise of untruth as a political weapon.

What do you call someone who weaponizes untruth? Tommy speaks of “huge number of stories”, without more? What do you say about someone who says that shadows are as illuminating as the sunlight? If not a ‘liar’, perhaps a ‘prevaricator’: one who deviates from truth? Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

Maybe that sanitizes the word ‘lying’, but the result is the same. Tommy is doing a political act in weaponizing untruth. His concern is not to quibble over definitions, but to spread a blanket of falsehood in order to start, or perpetuate a racist movement.

Just so we understand one another, Fred, that's what you are defending.

No, I do not think that you understand me at all...I am defending nothing; I am, as Basil Fawlty famously said, making a statement of the bleeding obvious.

Just because these disgraceful instances, of which there have been, and continue to be, many do not feature much in the New York Times or the Sydney Morning Herald is immaterial. Mass sexual attacks in Germany over the New Year festivities in 2017; rapes, sexual assaults and serial criminality in many,if not most European countries and possibly most notorious of all the organised systematic abuse of young women and girls in Rotherham and other British towns are a matter or record.

One could spend an entire day dredging through internet coverage of national, provincial and local media reports of police inquiries and subsequent prosecutions in order to "prove" the truth, and it would still not be to your satisfaction because on this particular issue the truth is as inconvenient to you as it is to Wolfie.

Go to Rotherham and talk to the families who have been torn apart by this previously almost unknown crime of mass, organised grooming and abuse if you really believe that it is nothing but racism and lies.

And frankly, if you believe that I am either "defending" those whom you consider to be racists, liars or "weaponisers of the truth" or that I personally take any satisfaction from commenting adversely on the proven background to far too many of these cases, then all I can say is that you do not know me at all.

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