May just committed political suicide. Still.!!

First topic message reminder :

For not calling for the Brexit vote straight away. 14th January is too far away, too much time wasting.
Corbyn has tabled a vote of no confidence in May.
Bye bye, you stupid, indecisive ugly old Harriden.

Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/live-theresa-may-to-condemn-calls-for-second-eu-referendum-11584184?inApp=true

hahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

What type of brexit deal does Labour want, Andy?

Labour say they will renationalise the railways... but that can't be done without first leaving the EU... so why do so many Labour MPs also say they want to remain in the EU...!?


More "quantum thinking" from the idiot lefty Labour liars...!!!

Look around Europe at the best railways. Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain. All Nationalised.
Look at the worst. British. private, apart from the East coast which IS nationalised, LNER, and is the best in the UK.

HoratioTarr wrote:hahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

OMG....brilliant.

Look at barman Jeremy rushing past.
No matter how unpopular May is she still seems to have one up on him.

Andy wrote:Look around Europe at the best railways. Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain. All Nationalised.
Look at the worst. British. private, apart from the East coast which IS nationalised,  LNER,  and is the best in the UK.

Again Andy, you didn't answer the question...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Andy wrote:Look around Europe at the best railways. Germany, France, Netherlands, Denmark, Spain. All Nationalised.
Look at the worst. British. private, apart from the East coast which IS nationalised,  LNER,  and is the best in the UK.

Again Andy, you didn't answer the question...

Prove that the UK would have to leave the EU to re-nationalize rail services. He pointed out that many other EU members have nationalized rail.

And what do you make of this column, which is from four years ago and argues the government should just do it already? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/our-rail-system-is-broken-and-nationalisation-has-already-been-proven-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

Is the columnist being deceitful, arguing for nationalized rail that would be illegal under EU law?

Or are you full of shit?

Ain’t nothing bad gonna hapoen if we leave the EU. It will just be different, and different doesn’t have to mean worse.

Syl wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:hahahhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

OMG....brilliant.

Look at barman Jeremy rushing past.
No matter how unpopular May is she still seems to have one up on him.

Someone gave you red.....hahahahaha

I actually nearly peed laughing at that vid. ha ha

Excellent

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Again Andy, you didn't answer the question...

Prove that the UK would have to leave the EU to re-nationalize rail services. He pointed out that many other EU members have nationalized rail.

And what do you make of this column, which is from four years ago and argues the government should just do it already? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/our-rail-system-is-broken-and-nationalisation-has-already-been-proven-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

Is the columnist being deceitful, arguing for nationalized rail that would be illegal under EU law?

Or are you full of shit?

He is full of shit.
It is impossible to argue with somebody who claims the whole world is left wing and there is no such body/party/group or person who can be identified as far right. He risably identifies the Nazi party as left wing.
If Monkey brain can say who is, let him list them.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:

OMG....brilliant.

Look at barman Jeremy rushing past.
No matter how unpopular May is she still seems to have one up on him.

Someone gave you red.....hahahahaha

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Again Andy, you didn't answer the question...

Prove that the UK would have to leave the EU to re-nationalize rail services. He pointed out that many other EU members have nationalized rail.

And what do you make of this column, which is from four years ago and argues the government should just do it already? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/our-rail-system-is-broken-and-nationalisation-has-already-been-proven-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

Is the columnist being deceitful, arguing for nationalized rail that would be illegal under EU law?

Or are you full of shit?

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/as-eu-imposes-rail-privatisation--rmt-says-vote-to-leave/

eddie wrote:Ain’t nothing bad gonna hapoen if we leave the EU. It will just be different, and different doesn’t have to mean worse.

You know, you've been repeating that line for 2 years, starting to sounds like Mrs May

And it will be worse, at the very least initially, even Brexiteers don't pretend there wouldn't be an immediate hit to the pound and the economy. They just believe we'd make a glorious recover, while others understand that we'd face various possible futures which diminish our nation: the less benefitted partner in trade deals and less attractive as a place to do business OR a more attractive place if the govt chose to slash taxes and regulation on the rich and big business, which would be bad for workers.

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:Ain’t nothing bad gonna hapoen if we leave the EU. It will just be different, and different doesn’t have to mean worse.

You know, you've been repeating that line for 2 years, starting to sounds like Mrs May

And it will be worse, at the very least initially, even Brexiteers don't pretend there wouldn't be an immediate hit to the pound and the economy. They just believe we'd make a glorious recover, while others understand that we'd face various possible futures which diminish our nation: the less benefitted partner in trade deals and less attractive as a place to do business OR a more attractive place if the govt chose to slash taxes and regulation on the rich and big business, which would be bad for workers.

Define worse, based on some people thinking and seeing it is already worse being in?

How well have you bought into predictions and you being an athiest?

I take any with a pinch of salt

I however think our future is better off with an improved EU, but that is simple my opinion

We have had two years of doom and gloom predictions on leaving the EU and exactly the opposite has hapened in regards to these predictions.

Have you consulted the Sun's starline section or mystic Meg yet?

Tommy Monk wrote:

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Prove that the UK would have to leave the EU to re-nationalize rail services. He pointed out that many other EU members have nationalized rail.

And what do you make of this column, which is from four years ago and argues the government should just do it already? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/our-rail-system-is-broken-and-nationalisation-has-already-been-proven-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

Is the columnist being deceitful, arguing for nationalized rail that would be illegal under EU law?

Or are you full of shit?

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/as-eu-imposes-rail-privatisation--rmt-says-vote-to-leave/

And just in case you didn't know what the "RMT" is...


"...The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers is a British trade union covering the transport sector..."


Bob Crow was the leader up until his death in 2014, and a staunch anti EU campaigner...


And here is an interesting read...


https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/enrico-tortolano/as-trade-unionist-this-is-why-britain-must-vote-to-leave

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:Ain’t nothing bad gonna hapoen if we leave the EU. It will just be different, and different doesn’t have to mean worse.

You know, you've been repeating that line for 2 years, starting to sounds like Mrs May

And it will be worse, at the very least initially, even Brexiteers don't pretend there wouldn't be an immediate hit to the pound and the economy. They just believe we'd make a glorious recover, while others understand that we'd face various possible futures which diminish our nation: the less benefitted partner in trade deals and less attractive as a place to do business OR a more attractive place if the govt chose to slash taxes and regulation on the rich and big business, which would be bad for workers.

The remoaners haven't stopped bleating bullshit for the last 2 and half years... talking our country down... and trying to prevent the democratic decision of the British people, to leave the EU, and to restore our democracy, from actually happening...!


We had the democratic vote... the democratic decision was made...


Time for you remainers to stop your bullshit and start respecting democracy!!!


Because no matter how much exaggerated damage you might like to bleat on about being caused by us leaving the EU... that is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the damage you are causing to the fundamental foundations of/future of our democracy!!!

Ben, I'm "full of Shit! , not been to Toilet for 4 days !

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:Ain’t nothing bad gonna hapoen if we leave the EU. It will just be different, and different doesn’t have to mean worse.

You know, you've been repeating that line for 2 years, starting to sounds like Mrs May

And it will be worse, at the very least initially, even Brexiteers don't pretend there wouldn't be an immediate hit to the pound and the economy. They just believe we'd make a glorious recover, while others understand that we'd face various possible futures which diminish our nation: the less benefitted partner in trade deals and less attractive as a place to do business OR a more attractive place if the govt chose to slash taxes and regulation on the rich and big business, which would be bad for workers.

The remoaners haven't stopped bleating bullshit for the last 2 and half years... talking our country down... and trying to prevent the democratic decision of the British people, to leave the EU, and to restore our democracy, from actually happening...!


We had the democratic vote... the democratic decision was made...


Time for you remainers to stop your bullshit and start respecting democracy!!!


Because no matter how much exaggerated damage you might like to bleat on about being caused by us leaving the EU... that is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the damage you are causing to the fundamental foundations of/future of our democracy!!!

Brexiteers don't even agree on the kind of Brexit they want. Deal or no deal? With that much uncertainty and a three way split in the House we should be having a final referendum for the final decision.

No deal is my option, if this was put forward at first, it would have frightened them stiff !

The Common Market was one thing the political union it has become is another, if some countries want to unite as a political conglomeration that's up to them and leave the rest to in a trade treaty. One size does not fit all, if there was a general standard for everything with individual wriggle room for each country it wouldn't have been so bad an idea but when countries have to keep having referendums to get the answer the EU wants its a step too far.
I can't see any problem with trade, security or anything else being a problem, we can't have all the benefits of being in the club, not sure what they are but I'm sure we can all manage without all the queues and problems that remainers think will happen without a deal, where there's a will there's a way, its the same stuff being traded. I reckon people will still co operate in science and education we did before, Interpol has been around for years.

Green for you love ! [Brummies call all women Love}

Do you mind ?

Not in the slightest Nicko. People tend to do that around here as well.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The remoaners haven't stopped bleating bullshit for the last 2 and half years... talking our country down... and trying to prevent the democratic decision of the British people, to leave the EU, and to restore our democracy, from actually happening...!


We had the democratic vote... the democratic decision was made...


Time for you remainers to stop your bullshit and start respecting democracy!!!


Because no matter how much exaggerated damage you might like to bleat on about being caused by us leaving the EU... that is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the damage you are causing to the fundamental foundations of/future of our democracy!!!

Brexiteers don't even agree on the kind of Brexit they want. Deal or no deal? With that much uncertainty and a three way split in the House we should be having a final referendum for the final decision.

Yes we do know what we want... we want to leave the EU!!!


We want to repeal the European communities act 1972... restore complete control over our laws borders and money to our national parliament...


And we want to carry on trading on as tariff free basis as possible.

Tommy Monk wrote:

>THE Ben Reilly< wrote:

Prove that the UK would have to leave the EU to re-nationalize rail services. He pointed out that many other EU members have nationalized rail.

And what do you make of this column, which is from four years ago and argues the government should just do it already? https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/our-rail-system-is-broken-and-nationalisation-has-already-been-proven-to-work-so-what-are-we-waiting-9960432.html

Is the columnist being deceitful, arguing for nationalized rail that would be illegal under EU law?

Or are you full of shit?

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/as-eu-imposes-rail-privatisation--rmt-says-vote-to-leave/

Nothing to say Ben...!?


The RMT which is the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers and very left wing, back up what I say...


Are they full of shit too...!!!???

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Come on Andy...!?


What have you got to say about the fact that 70% of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted leave...!!!???


And given that it is a similar percentage for Tory too... isn't it right that the mps in parliament just get on with brexit and stop trying to go against the will of their electorate by trying to stop it happening...?

Try answering the questions...?

Reposted for run away Andy...


Come on Andy... take your fingers out your ears and stop singing "la la la la la" and address the points...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The remoaners haven't stopped bleating bullshit for the last 2 and half years... talking our country down... and trying to prevent the democratic decision of the British people, to leave the EU, and to restore our democracy, from actually happening...!


We had the democratic vote... the democratic decision was made...


Time for you remainers to stop your bullshit and start respecting democracy!!!


Because no matter how much exaggerated damage you might like to bleat on about being caused by us leaving the EU... that is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the damage you are causing to the fundamental foundations of/future of our democracy!!!

Brexiteers don't even agree on the kind of Brexit they want. Deal or no deal? With that much uncertainty and a three way split in the House we should be having a final referendum for the final decision.

Yes we do know what we want... we want to leave the EU!!!


We want to repeal the European communities act 1972... restore complete control over our laws borders and money to our national parliament...


And we want to carry on trading on as tariff free basis as possible.

You know what you and those you support want. Other Brexiteers want something different. Why not let the people have the final say? Since parliament obviously can't come to an agreement. Scared?

What are you waffling about...!?


17.4 million people voted to leave the EU!!!


We all voted for the same thing!!!


It was spelled out crystal clear at the time of the referendum what leaving the EU meant!!!


And everyone who voted to leave knew what they were voting for!!!


Leaving the EU, leaving the customs union, leaving the single market, leaving the CAP and fishing policy, taking back control of our laws borders & money, an end of free movement and out of the ECJ!!!


It couldn't have been clearer at the time of the referendum!!!


And we all know it!!!

Parliament is full of remain MPs who are trying to scupper brexit... although the vast majority of them represent constituencies who voted to leave!!!


The people have decided and the mps were elected on manifestos to deliver!!!

Condell is a racist far right moron. More importantly, he is now in a minority.
Remain 56%. Leave 44%.
In the Mail online.

https://mol.im/a/6607317

The only poll that matters happened in the real referendum 2 and a half years ago!!!


Time to get on with it!!!

I keep wondering why all sides are acting like spoiled children, 'miss he said this or that' The Conservatives said or did this. Labour did this or say that. For goodness sake this is a serious event in our present situation, the vote was to leave, much to the surprise of just about everyone, the politicians should have got together straight away, or at least when the shock wore off, and thrashed out a deal they could live with before approaching the negotiations, the EU have it on a plate, no one in the British Government can agree with anyone else, a divided nation is there for the taking advantage off, its a complete mess. We should have honoured the referendum and presented a united front to the EU instead of poor losers trying to stop or hamper the will of the people.

Tommy Monk wrote:What are you waffling about...!?


17.4 million people voted to leave the EU!!!


We all voted for the same thing!!!


It was spelled out crystal clear at the time of the referendum what leaving the EU meant!!!


And everyone who voted to leave knew what they were voting for!!!


Leaving the EU, leaving the customs union, leaving the single market, leaving the CAP and fishing policy, taking back control of our laws borders & money, an end of free movement and out of the ECJ!!!


It couldn't have been clearer at the time of the referendum!!!


And we all know it!!!

Some Brexiteers and a lot of their supporters made it absolutely clear in before the referendum that free trade would be able to remain post-Brexit. A lot of people voted based on that promise. Stop being utterly arrogant for once and accept not everyone wants exactly the same as you.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:What are you waffling about...!?


17.4 million people voted to leave the EU!!!


We all voted for the same thing!!!


It was spelled out crystal clear at the time of the referendum what leaving the EU meant!!!


And everyone who voted to leave knew what they were voting for!!!


Leaving the EU, leaving the customs union, leaving the single market, leaving the CAP and fishing policy, taking back control of our laws borders & money, an end of free movement and out of the ECJ!!!


It couldn't have been clearer at the time of the referendum!!!


And we all know it!!!

Some Brexiteers and a lot of their supporters made it absolutely clear in before the referendum that free trade would be able to remain post-Brexit. A lot of people voted based on that promise. Stop being utterly arrogant for once and accept not everyone wants exactly the same as you.

The UK is more than happy to carry on with tariff free trade with the EU after we leave... and if that doesn't happen then it will be because the EU don't let it happen!!!


But they will be acting like petulant children if they refuse it... and it won't be long before they are forced to change their position on that, under immense pressure from the European people and businesses that they purport to represent...!


The only arrogance I see is from remainers who lost and won't shut up!!!


And vintage... green from me!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:What are you waffling about...!?


17.4 million people voted to leave the EU!!!


We all voted for the same thing!!!


It was spelled out crystal clear at the time of the referendum what leaving the EU meant!!!


And everyone who voted to leave knew what they were voting for!!!


Leaving the EU, leaving the customs union, leaving the single market, leaving the CAP and fishing policy, taking back control of our laws borders & money, an end of free movement and out of the ECJ!!!


It couldn't have been clearer at the time of the referendum!!!


And we all know it!!!

Some Brexiteers and a lot of their supporters made it absolutely clear in before the referendum that free trade would be able to remain post-Brexit. A lot of people voted based on that promise. Stop being utterly arrogant for once and accept not everyone wants exactly the same as you.

The UK is more than happy to carry on with tariff free trade with the EU after we leave... and if that doesn't happen then it will be because the EU don't let it happen!!!


But they will be acting like petulant children if they refuse it... and it won't be long before they are forced to change their position on that, under immense pressure from the European people and businesses that they purport to represent...!


The only arrogance I see is from remainers who lost and won't shut up!!!


And vintage... green from me!

And of the Leavers who disagree with you?

Are you just going to pretend they don't exist?

And don't pretend the EU won't have a stronger bargaining position that the UK post a No Deal Brexit. We will have no trade deals and will rapidly need to build them globally. We need to be fast, the EU knows this. Also, in case it isn't glaringly the obvious, THIS government is NOT good at negotiating good deals, nor would a govt run by Corbyn the Opportunist. So how you expect a nation is a weakened and hurrying position, with an awful administration of poor negotiators, would get good trade deals for Britain is quite odd.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The UK is more than happy to carry on with tariff free trade with the EU after we leave... and if that doesn't happen then it will be because the EU don't let it happen!!!


But they will be acting like petulant children if they refuse it... and it won't be long before they are forced to change their position on that, under immense pressure from the European people and businesses that they purport to represent...!


The only arrogance I see is from remainers who lost and won't shut up!!!


And vintage... green from me!

And of the Leavers who disagree with you?

Are you just going to pretend they don't exist?

And don't pretend the EU won't have a stronger bargaining position that the UK post a No Deal Brexit. We will have no trade deals and will rapidly need to build them globally. We need to be fast, the EU knows this. Also, in case it isn't glaringly the obvious, THIS government is NOT good at negotiating good deals, nor would a govt run by Corbyn the Opportunist. So how you expect a nation is a weakened and hurrying position, with an awful administration of poor negotiators, would get good trade deals for Britain is quite odd.

1. Please explain what you mean by "leavers who disagree with me"...?

Because as far as I know... all leavers want to leave the EU, as was clearly set out at the time of referendum, and as i have explained in my previous post...


2. Where are these "leavers" who disagree with me?

And what is it that you think they disagree with me about...?

Or are they just in your imagination...?


3. We are in a very strong position on trade, as the EU sell much more to us than we sell to them... and don't be fooled by thinking that tariff free trade is the be all and end all of everything... we are more than capable of trading with any country under any system...!

And if you really want to moan about any weakness in our position... then blame the treacherous remainers who have been doing their best to weaken our position since the referendum...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


The UK is more than happy to carry on with tariff free trade with the EU after we leave... and if that doesn't happen then it will be because the EU don't let it happen!!!


But they will be acting like petulant children if they refuse it... and it won't be long before they are forced to change their position on that, under immense pressure from the European people and businesses that they purport to represent...!


The only arrogance I see is from remainers who lost and won't shut up!!!


And vintage... green from me!

And of the Leavers who disagree with you?

Are you just going to pretend they don't exist?

And don't pretend the EU won't have a stronger bargaining position that the UK post a No Deal Brexit. We will have no trade deals and will rapidly need to build them globally. We need to be fast, the EU knows this. Also, in case it isn't glaringly the obvious, THIS government is NOT good at negotiating good deals, nor would a govt run by Corbyn the Opportunist. So how you expect a nation is a weakened and hurrying position, with an awful administration of poor negotiators, would get good trade deals for Britain is quite odd.

1. Please explain what you mean by "leavers who disagree with me"...?

Because as far as I know... all leavers want to leave the EU, as was clearly set out at the time of referendum, and as i have explained in my previous post...


2. Where are these "leavers" who disagree with me?

And what is it that you think they disagree with me about...?

Or are they just in your imagination...?


3. We are in a very strong position on trade, as the EU sell much more to us than we sell to them... and don't be fooled by thinking that tariff free trade is the be all and end all of everything... we are more than capable of trading with any country under any system...!

And if you really want to moan about any weakness in our position... then blame the treacherous remainers who have been doing their best to weaken our position since the referendum...!

1 and 2 (since the same thing): a lot of Leavers left on the assumption we could remain in the Single Market. A lot of Leavers still prefer the option of Leaving WHILE retaining access to that single market. You want No Deal, they want a deal.

3. No answer to the fact that we have a government of incompetent negotiators, or the fact a huge % of our supermarket shelves are filled with food from the EU. The EU knows this. They also know that negotiating with other nations to make up any shortfall in EU trade would be costly for us still. They have the upper hand. They have more time than we do.

So, what about those awful negotiators of ours? Do you think May, Gove, Johnson, Mogg or even Corbyn will be able to negotiate these awesome alternatives you talk about?

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!


3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!


And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!


3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!


And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/883660/support-for-brexit-scenarios/

Even if you discount the fact a majority in that poll want to remain, it shows a 65/35 split even among Leavers.

So, no consensus there even among Brexiteers.

The referendum is the only real poll that means anything!!!


And 17.4 million people voted to leave the EU and knew exactly what they were voting for and what they were voting against!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:The referendum is the only real poll that means anything!!!


And 17.4 million people voted to leave the EU and knew exactly what they were voting for and what they were voting against!!!

Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought.

The likes of Daniel Hannan(sp?) and others made it clear would could have Norway or Swiss style agreements and some people will have voted based on that.

So stop twisting the result.

The only twisting is from you idiot anti democratic remainers!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:The only twisting is from you idiot anti democratic remainers!!!

Ah. You've devolved into letting your cult leader speak for you then.

I'll leave it there then.

(And one wonders why people like Andy stop responding)

Les said...

"...Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought..."


The irony... when there are so many remainers who keep trying to tell everyone why it was that leavers voted leave...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Les said...

"...Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought..."


The irony... when there are so many remainers who keep trying to tell everyone why it was that leavers voted leave...!!!

You really do over simplify everything.

I KNOW millions of Leavers want to leave no deal.
I also KNOW that millions of Leavers want a deal that allows free trade and various other trade deals to remain undisturbed.

Polls show this.

You want to boil it all down to 2 sides only, Stay or Go, because I guess that's all your mind can comprehend.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


1. Please explain what you mean by "leavers who disagree with me"...?

Because as far as I know... all leavers want to leave the EU, as was clearly set out at the time of referendum, and as i have explained in my previous post...


2. Where are these "leavers" who disagree with me?

And what is it that you think they disagree with me about...?

Or are they just in your imagination...?


3. We are in a very strong position on trade, as the EU sell much more to us than we sell to them... and don't be fooled by thinking that tariff free trade is the be all and end all of everything... we are more than capable of trading with any country under any system...!

And if you really want to moan about any weakness in our position... then blame the treacherous remainers who have been doing their best to weaken our position since the referendum...!

1 and 2 (since the same thing): a lot of Leavers left on the assumption we could remain in the Single Market. A lot of Leavers still prefer the option of Leaving WHILE retaining access to that single market. You want No Deal, they want a deal.

3. No answer to the fact that we have a government of incompetent negotiators, or the fact a huge % of our supermarket shelves are filled with food from the EU. The EU knows this. They also know that negotiating with other nations to make up any shortfall in EU trade would be costly for us still. They have the upper hand. They have more time than we do.

So, what about those awful negotiators of ours? Do you think May, Gove, Johnson, Mogg or even Corbyn will be able to negotiate these awesome alternatives you talk about?

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!


3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!


And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!





Maybe if you answered the points I made... instead of diverting onto irrelevant spurious claims... then I would make time to debate further... but as you start to drift into posting fantasy wafffle, it is easier for me to post a pre recorded vid of Condell telling the truth and smashing your bullshit to bits...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


1. Please explain what you mean by "leavers who disagree with me"...?

Because as far as I know... all leavers want to leave the EU, as was clearly set out at the time of referendum, and as i have explained in my previous post...


2. Where are these "leavers" who disagree with me?

And what is it that you think they disagree with me about...?

Or are they just in your imagination...?


3. We are in a very strong position on trade, as the EU sell much more to us than we sell to them... and don't be fooled by thinking that tariff free trade is the be all and end all of everything... we are more than capable of trading with any country under any system...!

And if you really want to moan about any weakness in our position... then blame the treacherous remainers who have been doing their best to weaken our position since the referendum...!

1 and 2 (since the same thing): a lot of Leavers left on the assumption we could remain in the Single Market. A lot of Leavers still prefer the option of Leaving WHILE retaining access to that single market. You want No Deal, they want a deal.

3. No answer to the fact that we have a government of incompetent negotiators, or the fact a huge % of our supermarket shelves are filled with food from the EU. The EU knows this. They also know that negotiating with other nations to make up any shortfall in EU trade would be costly for us still. They have the upper hand. They have more time than we do.

So, what about those awful negotiators of ours? Do you think May, Gove, Johnson, Mogg or even Corbyn will be able to negotiate these awesome alternatives you talk about?

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!


3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!


And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!





Maybe if you answered the points I made... instead of diverting onto irrelevant spurious claims... then I would make time to debate further... but as you start to drift into posting fantasy wafffle, it is easier for me to post a pre recorded vid of Condell telling the truth and smashing your bullshit to bits...!

Going in circles. Boring tommy - very boring. You never respond to people's ACTUAL points, it's why you've spent 2 months bumping this thread while getting few responses (until recently, with the vote and all.

Until you acknowledge many Leave voters expected the UK would could remain in the free trade area outside the EU, I'm done.

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Les said...

"...Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought..."


The irony... when there are so many remainers who keep trying to tell everyone why it was that leavers voted leave...!!!

You really do over simplify everything.

I KNOW millions of Leavers want to leave no deal.
I also KNOW that millions of Leavers want a deal that allows free trade and various other trade deals to remain undisturbed.

Polls show this.

You want to boil it all down to 2 sides only, Stay or Go, because I guess that's all your mind can comprehend.

All leavers would prefer your second listed option... but we all knew full well that if the EU won't agree to that... then we would leave under the WTO option and then renegotiate lower tariff deals from outside the EU...!!!


It seems that you remainers didn't understand what the referendum vote was all about... otherwise you wouldn't still be getting it all so wrong now about what the options were and what it really meant...!!!???