May just committed political suicide. Still.!!

by Andy Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

For not calling for the Brexit vote straight away. 14th January is too far away, too much time wasting.
Corbyn has tabled a vote of no confidence in May.
Bye bye, you stupid, indecisive ugly old Harriden.

Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/live-theresa-may-to-condemn-calls-for-second-eu-referendum-11584184?inApp=true

by Tommy Monk Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:57 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!

3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!

And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!

Maybe if you answered the points I made... instead of diverting onto irrelevant spurious claims... then I would make time to debate further... but as you start to drift into posting fantasy wafffle, it is easier for me to post a pre recorded vid of Condell telling the truth and smashing your bullshit to bits...!

Going in circles. Boring tommy - very boring. You never respond to people's ACTUAL points, it's why you've spent 2 months bumping this thread while getting few responses (until recently, with the vote and all.

Until you acknowledge many Leave voters expected the UK would could remain in the free trade area outside the EU, I'm done.

You remainers know all about going round in circles...

And if you could bear to tell the truth about this thread... firstly I have not been bumping it for 2 months... and secondly it is Andy who has repeatedly failed to answer the point I have made that 70% of Labour MPs represent constituencies who voted leave, but most Labour MPs are trying to use their position in parliament to prevent the UK from leaving the EU...!!!

I'm not running away from any points!!!

by Raggamuffin Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:44 pm

Why does it say "solved" in the thread title? That happened before.

by Andy Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:23 pm

I originated the thread.
Only myself or a mod can alter the title.
And it wasn't me.
The original title is still valid.
May hem HAS committed political suicide.

by Raggamuffin Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:38 pm

Andy wrote:I originated the thread.
Only myself or a mod can alter the title.
And it wasn't me.
The original title is still valid.
May hem HAS committed political suicide.

It's weird because that happened to one of eddie's threads too.

Re Mrs May, I don't know if she'll survive or not, but I have to hand it to her - she's pretty calm in the face of a lot of trouble and hostility. She's made of stern stuff.

by JulesV Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:43 pm

I suggest a televised mud wrestling bout between all these alpha males, to pick a winner.

ETA I've heard rumours that Andy is streets ahead of the pack (iykwim Wink

) but it wouldn't hurt to confirm it once & for all with my own eyes.

by nicko Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:00 pm

ALL the leave voters I know [11 of 'em] want to leave with no deal !

by Guest Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:08 pm

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!

3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!

And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!

Maybe if you answered the points I made... instead of diverting onto irrelevant spurious claims... then I would make time to debate further... but as you start to drift into posting fantasy wafffle, it is easier for me to post a pre recorded vid of Condell telling the truth and smashing your bullshit to bits...!

Until you acknowledge many Leave voters expected the UK would could remain in the free trade area outside the EU, I'm done.

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on
Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Quite right gelico... remainers are so caught up in their lies and spin that they are starting to believe their own bullshit...!!!

by eddie Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:06 pm

Can someone tell me who’s putting the word “solved” on threads?

by Guest Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:10 pm

eddie wrote:Can someone tell me who’s putting the word “solved” on threads?

this happened before on a different thread but ben said he knew who had done it

May just committed political suicide. Still.!! - Page 3 2190311264

by Guest Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:16 pm

It happened to me where Veya, changed the title of my thread.

Hence this can only ever be edited by the person who posted the article or a Mod.

Also its clearly not Andy, as his edit was back in December the 17th

by Andy Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:36 pm

Bollox. I am going to re-edit the title. My thread, my title.

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:09 am

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

1 & 2... Why are you lying...!?

Everyone who voted "leave" knew full well that it meant leaving the "single market"...!!!

And everyone knows that staying in the "single market" means effectively staying in the EU!!!

So you are talking absolute shit!!!

3. What is there to negotiate...!?

We are leaving the EU... and are offering to carry on trading tariff free with them... and to allow EU nationals who are already here to carry on living and working here... as long as the EU agree to the same...

Isn't that pretty straight forward... and mutually beneficial... and easy to come to agreement on...!!!???

What is so hard about agreeing this with the EU...!!!???

I'll tell you... it's hard because the EU don't want to agree!!!

They want to try to tie us up in legal mumbo jumbo which is purely designed to keep us in the EU by using Ireland/Northern Ireland border issue as a means to keep us trapped into a customs union which means we are still bound into being under the control of the EU...!!!

Thereby preventing us from actually leaving the EU at all!!!

So... it's quite simple... as the EU won't agree to the mutually beneficial arrangement that we are offering... then we go to the next best thing which is carry on trading with them under WTO rules, and use that as a new starting point for a future lower tariff arrangement with them...!

And believe me... they will be under immense pressure from the people and businesses of Europe to get lower tariff trade with us sorted out as soon as possible!!!

Maybe if you answered the points I made... instead of diverting onto irrelevant spurious claims... then I would make time to debate further... but as you start to drift into posting fantasy wafffle, it is easier for me to post a pre recorded vid of Condell telling the truth and smashing your bullshit to bits...!

Until you acknowledge many Leave voters expected the UK would could remain in the free trade area outside the EU, I'm done.

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on

"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan (Con MEP and leading Brexiteer)

“There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" Boris Johnson

Perhaps you didn't listen to lead Brexiteers much at the time, Geli. But let's not pretend by millions will have, and will have been influenced by such promises.

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:05 am

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on

"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan (Con MEP and leading Brexiteer)

“There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" Boris Johnson

Perhaps you didn't listen to lead Brexiteers much at the time, Geli. But let's not pretend by millions will have, and will have been influenced by such promises.

Come off it les... you are seriously clutching at straws here...!!!

And you are either completely ignorant of the facts about your claims... or you are just plain lying...!!!

Which is it...!!!???

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:49 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on

"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan (Con MEP and leading Brexiteer)

“There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" Boris Johnson

Perhaps you didn't listen to lead Brexiteers much at the time, Geli. But let's not pretend by millions will have, and will have been influenced by such promises.

Come off it les... you are seriously clutching at straws here...!!!

And you are either completely ignorant of the facts about your claims... or you are just plain lying...!!!

Which is it...!!!???

Did Johnson and Hannan say those things? Yes or No.

by Guest Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:07 am

Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on

"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan (Con MEP and leading Brexiteer)

“There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" Boris Johnson

Perhaps you didn't listen to lead Brexiteers much at the time, Geli. But let's not pretend by millions will have, and will have been influenced by such promises.

it was still made clear by cameron that brexit meant leaving the customs union and the single market.

that was pretty much understood to be the case regardless of what boris johnson waffles on about

also now that some time has passed and we still have poland and hungary holding out against the eu. the eu have also threatened italy who has basically said up yours.

more and more people are seeing the eu political government as tyrannical and corrupt and not fit for purpose.

are we really sure we want to stay/go back to such a crumbling mess?

bearing in mind that on a personal level, whether we are in or out makes no difference whatsoever to my life that i can think of

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:30 am

gelico wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
gelico wrote:

uh? that is completely untrue les

Cameron made it perfectly clear in his speech giving us the referendum exactly what it would mean

every single day that followed, in every single discussion on TV it was made clear exactly what Brexit would mean

come on

"Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market" Daniel Hannan (Con MEP and leading Brexiteer)

“There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" Boris Johnson

Perhaps you didn't listen to lead Brexiteers much at the time, Geli. But let's not pretend by millions will have, and will have been influenced by such promises.

it was still made clear by cameron that brexit meant leaving the customs union and the single market.

that was pretty much understood to be the case regardless of what boris johnson waffles on about

also now that some time has passed and we still have poland and hungary holding out against the eu. the eu have also threatened italy who has basically said up yours.

more and more people are seeing the eu political government as tyrannical and corrupt and not fit for purpose.

are we really sure we want to stay/go back to such a crumbling mess?

bearing in mind that on a personal level, whether we are in or out makes no difference whatsoever to my life that i can think of

Cameron said Brexit'd mean leaving the Single Market and Customs Union. As a Brexiteer yourself, I'm surprised you don't know a clear example of 'Project Fear' when you see one Wink

Hannan and Johnson, two of the people Brexiteers raised as standard bearers of the campaign at the time (especially the former, who was posted frequently as an example of a sensible, rational and 'honest' MEP, who was so noble as to throw away his own job for 'freedom'). It seems now SOME Brexiteers are close to getting what they REALLY want, they are now trying to retcon events that happened, and things said, just 2-3 years ago.

Cameron was shouted down as scare mongering. Hannan was portrayed as the voice of reason.

SOME Leavers (not all, maybe not even most) were swayed by such promises. Don't pretend otherwise. Some would still prefer a deal which gave us 'political freedom' but kept us in either or both the Single Market and Customs Union. Yet those people are now made out to not even exist, by ravenous No Deal Brexiteers who see their goal in sight.

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:49 am

Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Come off it les... you are seriously clutching at straws here...!!!

And you are either completely ignorant of the facts about your claims... or you are just plain lying...!!!

Which is it...!!!???

Did Johnson and Hannan say those things? Yes or No.

Not during the time between the announcement on 22 February 2016 that a referendum on EU membership going to happen, and before the 23rd June 2016 when it did actually happen...!!!

Hannan is quoted from an interview back in the middle of 2015 when he was talking about the Cameron/Tory election manifesto pledges about trying to renegotiate the UKs position in the EU...

That is when he said "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market"...

And he went on to clarify his point in the same interview by saying...

"...[businesses say] the costs of EU regulation outweigh the benefits of being in the single market..."

And...

"...no one in Brussels has ever suggested, (and I've been here for 16 years), that if we withdrew from the political aspect of the union, that we would be excluded from the free market..."

This was all being said in the middle of 2015, just after the 2015 gen election, and being said about the tory/cameron plan to have some sort of renegotiation on UK relationship with the EU... and this was several months before the EU referendum was even announced in Feb 2016!!!

The interview is here...

https://youtu.be/zzykce4oxII

lol!

Now... on to your 2nd claim about what Boris Johnson is supposed to have said... and that influenced the referendum vote result...

Please tell me the date of when the EU referendum was held...!?

I'll tell you...

It was the 23rd June 2016...

Now... please tell me when it was that Boris was supposed to have said what you claim...???

Was it before 23rd June 2016...?

Or AFTER 23rd June 2016...???

Full report on what Boris Johnson said AFTER the 23rd June 2016 referendum vote had finished is here...

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/76610/boris-johnson-says-uk-will

And not only is it true that he made these comments AFTER the 23rd june 2016... so AFTER the referendum result had finished... so these comments had absolutely no influence whatsoever on the the result of the referendum... it is however true that we will have access to the single market even if we end up on WTO trade terms with the EU...!!!

lol!

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:13 am

Les said...

"...Some would still prefer a deal which gave us 'political freedom' but kept us in either or both the Single Market and Customs Union. Yet those people are now made out to not even exist, by ravenous No Deal Brexiteers who see their goal in sight...."

You are talking complete fantasy bullshit!!!

David Cameron already tried renegotiating for the UK to have political freedom while staying in the single market and customs union... and the EU already said NO!!!

We cannot have any political freedom if we stay in either the single market or the customs union!!!

This was established as fact before the EU referendum was even announced in Feb 2016!!!

So Les... either you are completely lying about all this... or you don't know WTF you are talking about...!!!???

Which is it...!!!???

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:34 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Eilzel wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Come off it les... you are seriously clutching at straws here...!!!

And you are either completely ignorant of the facts about your claims... or you are just plain lying...!!!

Which is it...!!!???

Did Johnson and Hannan say those things? Yes or No.

Not during the time between the announcement on 22 February 2016 that a referendum on EU membership going to happen, and before the 23rd June 2016 when it did actually happen...!!!

Hannan is quoted from an interview back in the middle of 2015 when he was talking about the Cameron/Tory election manifesto pledges about trying to renegotiate the UKs position in the EU...

That is when he said "Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market"...

And he went on to clarify his point in the same interview by saying...

"...[businesses say] the costs of EU regulation outweigh the benefits of being in the single market..."

And...

"...no one in Brussels has ever suggested, (and I've been here for 16 years), that if we withdrew from the political aspect of the union, that we would be excluded from the free market..."

This was all being said in the middle of 2015, just after the 2015 gen election, and being said about the tory/cameron plan to have some sort of renegotiation on UK relationship with the EU... and this was several months before the EU referendum was even announced in Feb 2016!!!

The interview is here...

https://youtu.be/zzykce4oxII

Now... on to your 2nd claim about what Boris Johnson is supposed to have said... and that influenced the referendum vote result...

Please tell me the date of when the EU referendum was held...!?

I'll tell you...

It was the 23rd June 2016...

Now... please tell me when it was that Boris was supposed to have said what you claim...???

Was it before 23rd June 2016...?

Or AFTER 23rd June 2016...???

Full report on what Boris Johnson said AFTER the 23rd June 2016 referendum vote had finished is here...

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/76610/boris-johnson-says-uk-will

And not only is it true that he made these comments AFTER the 23rd june 2016... so AFTER the referendum result had finished... so these comments had absolutely no influence whatsoever on the the result of the referendum... it is however true that we will have access to the single market even if we end up on WTO trade terms with the EU...!!!

Hannan was still prominent during the campaign, tommy, and in the many debates and discussions around that time this was something that came up again. And Boris's article only echoed again what had been said before. Cameron was slammed as scare mongering for saying we wouldn't retain access to the Single Market. I'm not going hunting through the various debates and interviews at the time, but you know this as well as I do.

This is just hardline Brexiteer attempts to get the most extreme version of Brexit that many always wanted when you KNOW at least a % of Leavers voted believe Single Market access would remain.

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:37 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Les said...

"...Some would still prefer a deal which gave us 'political freedom' but kept us in either or both the Single Market and Customs Union. Yet those people are now made out to not even exist, by ravenous No Deal Brexiteers who see their goal in sight...."

You are talking complete fantasy bullshit!!!

David Cameron already tried renegotiating for the UK to have political freedom while staying in the single market and customs union... and the EU already said NO!!!

We cannot have any political freedom if we stay in either the single market or the customs union!!!

This was established as fact before the EU referendum was even announced in Feb 2016!!!

So Les... either you are completely lying about all this... or you don't know WTF you are talking about...!!!???

Which is it...!!!???

I know we couldn't stay in the Single Market and Customs union without remaining in the political union. I always knew this; it's why I voted Remain.

The point is, many voters were led to believe otherwise, and a few million of them will have voted to Leave.

You think everyone either wanted to remain or leave with no deal.

Do you ACTUALLY believe NO ONE voted to Leave while thinking we could retain access to the single market? Are you that naive?

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:08 am

Oh ffs Les... please stop your lying and waffling...!!!

I've just shown your Hannan & Johnson claims to be complete bullshit!!!

Yet you persist with your spurious wafffle by trying to claim that millions of people voted leave because they really thought that it meant staying in...!!!???

lol!

Are you insane!!!???

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Oh ffs Les... please stop your lying and waffling...!!!

I've just shown your Hannan & Johnson claims to be complete bullshit!!!

Yet you persist with your spurious wafffle by trying to claim that millions of people voted leave because they really thought that it meant staying in...!!!???

Are you insane!!!???

Staying in the Single Market, yes. But believe what you like. Must be easy only ever listening to your own voice Laughing

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:19 am

I'm surprised you can hear any voice of sanity and truth outside of your echo chambers of delusion and lies...!

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:46 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Les said...

"...Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought..."

The irony... when there are so many remainers who keep trying to tell everyone why it was that leavers voted leave...!!!

Reposted for Les and his far flung arrogance...

lol!

by Eilzel Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:08 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Les said...

"...Are you telling millions of people what they voted for? Your arrogance goes further than I thought..."

The irony... when there are so many remainers who keep trying to tell everyone why it was that leavers voted leave...!!!

Reposted for Les and his far flung arrogance...

Difference between you and me is, I'm acknowledging a wide range of views among all voters.

You are saying "NO! Everyone who voted this way wanted EXACTLY what IIIII want!"

(obviously you'd say it with more dots and exclamation points Laughing

)

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:30 pm

You don't leave the EU by staying in it...

And everyone knew that leave meant leaving the single market, leaving the customs union, leaving the common agricultural and fisheries policies, ending free movrment, taking back control of our laws borders and money, and an end to the UK being under the jurisdiction of the European court.

Everybody who voted leave knew this very clearly!

And everybody who voted remain also knew what a vote to leave meant!

So for you to now try to claim otherwise is ridiculous fantasy nonsense!!!

If it was a flip of a coin and choice between heads or tails... would you now be trying to say that some people thought a call of heads meant something other than heads?

Your desperate clutching of straws is becoming tedious... and quite embarrassing really...!

by nicko Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:53 pm

There WAS a wide range of opinions, but the opinions of remainers were Trumped by the Leavers,
and that is a FACT !

by Tommy Monk Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:21 pm

Quite right nicko!

And leave means leave... either with an agreement on trade tariffs... or on WTO trade terms!

by Tommy Monk Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Come on Andy...!?

What have you got to say about the fact that 70% of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted leave...!!!???

And given that it is a similar percentage for Tory too... isn't it right that the mps in parliament just get on with brexit and stop trying to go against the will of their electorate by trying to stop it happening...?

Try answering the questions...?

by Tommy Monk Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Labour say they will renationalise the railways... but that can't be done without first leaving the EU... so why do so many Labour MPs also say they want to remain in the EU...!?

More "quantum thinking" from the idiot lefty Labour liars...!!!

by Tommy Monk Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:31 am

by Andy Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:34 am

Tommy is so deranged he has taken to answering his blank posts with.......blank posts.
At least that is more intelligent than what he normally dribbled.

by nicko Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:36 am

Why don't you answer him then ?

by Andy Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:17 pm

Because I don't debate with a dribbling, climate change denying, Hitler avatarring, far right extremist who believe EVERYONE is left of his political position.
His most common response is a yawn or a laughing emojee.
That is not debate.
I simply have him on ignore.

by Tommy Monk Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Not deranged... just bumping the questions for you 'run away' Andy...

by Guest Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:16 pm

Andy wrote:Because I don't debate with a dribbling, climate change denying, Hitler avatarring, far right extremist who believe EVERYONE is left of his political position.
His most common response is a yawn or a laughing emojee.
That is not debate.
I simply have him on ignore.

it's a simple enough question though isn't it?

Labour say they will renationalise the railways... but that can't be done without first leaving the EU... so why do so many Labour MPs also say they want to remain in the EU...!?

I find Labour's position on Brexit really confusing.

Corbyn has always seemed to be against the EU and it's correct that his nationalisation plans cannot come to anything while still locked under EU regulations.

and yet so many of labour are bleating about staying in

so what's happening with Labour exactly?

by Tommy Monk Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:39 pm

Labour are treacherous liars... that's what is going on... as usual...!

by Andy Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:56 am

gelico wrote:
Andy wrote:Because I don't debate with a dribbling, climate change denying, Hitler avatarring, far right extremist who believe EVERYONE is left of his political position.
His most common response is a yawn or a laughing emojee.
That is not debate.
I simply have him on ignore.

it's a simple enough question though isn't it?

Labour say they will renationalise the railways... but that can't be done without first leaving the EU... so why do so many Labour MPs also say they want to remain in the EU...!?

I find Labour's position on Brexit really confusing.

Corbyn has always seemed to be against the EU and it's correct that his nationalisation plans cannot come to anything while still locked under EU regulations.

and yet so many of labour are bleating about staying in

so what's happening with Labour exactly?

I will try to answer you Gels, but not the forum Nazi.

Labour's position is as muddled as the Conservatives.
There are huge splits and opinion divides for leave/remain in both sets of supporters and voters.
That split is also reflected n MP's.
The reason is there is no simple, catch all solution.
Most agree a no deal Brexit is the worst case scenario and the option most are trying to avoid.
If there was a second referendum tomorrow, what to you think the outcome would be?
Probably a narrow 55/45 to remain or even closer.
What would be the outcome of a General Election?
Another hung parliament with deals with SNP and the LIBDEMS to maintain democracy.
So what does Cobyn do?
He IS the democratically elected leader, and has a lot of support from members.
My take is whilst he is a Euroskeptic, and wants out, which is consistent position for his whole career, he needs to reflect the will of the members, but also take in the wisdom from his senior team, Watson,McDonnell, Umunna, Cooper, Starmer, Jarvis, Field, Miliband, Kinnock and Benn.
I omitted Abbott because she is a comedy act best suited to working with Costello.
My guess is the Corbyn is content that May is wasting time with her dithering.
The longer she dithers, the weaker her position is. Eventually she will succumb to the Tory right.
I am pretty certain Corbyn will not show his hand until the Tory cabinet breaks , he IS the opposition party, and his ultimate mandate from the members is to become PM.
That is what opposition parties do.
Whether he should act for what is best for his members or what is best for the country is a debate for another time, but he has a good argument for saying he can only truly act and make decisions if he IS the PM rather than the opposition leader.

I think he will push for a delay to article 50 until Dec31 2019, to allow more time to negotiate the mess that May, Johnson,Davis,Raab, Rees Mogg and Barclay have made of the debacle.

Hot off the press, if you believe the boast "It's the Sun wot won it".

Tory chiefs warn they’ll lose a snap General Election as they’re underprepared to fight

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8257029/tories-lose-snap-general-election-unblock-brexit/

by nicko Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:11 am

No sane person will ever vote for a IRA, Hammas loving, Terrorist loving ,Marxist Communist Twisted Evil

by Andy Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:49 am

So if Corbyn does get elected, are you saying that the majority of the voting British are insane?

I would suggest holding your view probably brings your own sanity into question.

by Guest Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:34 pm

Andy wrote:
gelico wrote:

it's a simple enough question though isn't it?

Labour say they will renationalise the railways... but that can't be done without first leaving the EU... so why do so many Labour MPs also say they want to remain in the EU...!?

I find Labour's position on Brexit really confusing.

Corbyn has always seemed to be against the EU and it's correct that his nationalisation plans cannot come to anything while still locked under EU regulations.

and yet so many of labour are bleating about staying in

so what's happening with Labour exactly?

I will try to answer you Gels, but not the forum Nazi.

Labour's position is as muddled as the Conservatives.
There are huge splits and opinion divides for leave/remain in both sets of supporters and voters.
That split is also reflected n MP's.
The reason is there is no simple, catch all solution.
Most agree a no deal Brexit is the worst case scenario and the option most are trying to avoid.
If there was a second referendum tomorrow, what to you think the outcome would be?
Probably a narrow 55/45 to remain or even closer.
What would be the outcome of a General Election?
Another hung parliament with deals with SNP and the LIBDEMS to maintain democracy.
So what does Cobyn do?
He IS the democratically elected leader, and has a lot of support from members.
My take is whilst he is a Euroskeptic, and wants out, which is consistent position for his whole career, he needs to reflect the will of the members, but also take in the wisdom from his senior team, Watson,McDonnell, Umunna, Cooper, Starmer, Jarvis, Field, Miliband, Kinnock and Benn.
I omitted Abbott because she is a comedy act best suited to working with Costello.
My guess is the Corbyn is content that May is wasting time with her dithering.
The longer she dithers, the weaker her position is. Eventually she will succumb to the Tory right.
I am pretty certain Corbyn will not show his hand until the Tory cabinet breaks , he IS the opposition party, and his ultimate mandate from the members is to become PM.
That is what opposition parties do.
Whether he should act for what is best for his members or what is best for the country is a debate for another time, but he has a good argument for saying he can only truly act and make decisions if he IS the PM rather than the opposition leader.

I think he will push for a delay to article 50 until Dec31 2019, to allow more time to negotiate the mess that May, Johnson,Davis,Raab, Rees Mogg and Barclay have made of the debacle.

Hot off the press, if you believe the boast "It's the Sun wot won it".

Tory chiefs warn they’ll lose a snap General Election as they’re underprepared to fight

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit/8257029/tories-lose-snap-general-election-unblock-brexit/

Thank you Andy but that highlighted is my whole point

He has ruled out a peoples vote, he doesn't want a second referendum, he doesn't like EU. He CANT go forward with his plans while still in the EU. However, his core team want in so,,,,,,,

also with regard to your prediction on another vote,,,,,,even many labour people have said that if the government forced a second referendum then remain would lose by even more votes cos it would make people angry at feeling manipulated, pushed about and bulled and their first vote ignored. plus taking into account the gargantuan cost of the whole thing which we already had once

there's a whole load of ifs and buts and it all seems a complete and utter shambles right now

by Ben Reilly Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:18 pm

Andy, is it you who's changing the thread title? Not that I mind, but this is what I see for the OP:

First topic message reminder :

For not calling for the Brexit vote straight away. 14th January is too far away, too much time wasting.
Corbyn has tabled a vote of no confidence in May.
Bye bye, you stupid, indecisive ugly old Harriden.

Sky News: https://news.sky.com/story/live-theresa-may-to-condemn-calls-for-second-eu-referendum-11584184?inApp=true

Last edited by Andy on Sat 19 Jan 2019 - 15:37; edited 2 times in total

by nicko Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 pm

And , so you are saying that the majority of people will vote for Corbyn , you are aren't you ? I think we know who's insane Laughing

by eddie Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:33 pm

nicko wrote:And , so you are saying that the majority of people will vote for Corbyn , you are aren't you ? I think we know who's insane

Is it.....you? Suspect

by Andy Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:44 pm

Someone, not me, changed my original thread title. It was a mod. Failing that, someone still can access my account
.
I then advised publically that I was going to re-edit, which I still by adding STILL.

by nicko Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:45 pm

You could be right Eddie, insane to argue with a man whose mind is closed to Labours failings. None so blind as those who will not see !--------That was a good one wasn't it ? Laughing

by eddie Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:49 pm

nicko wrote:You could be right Eddie, insane to argue with a man whose mind is closed to Labours failings. None so blind as those who will not see !--------That was a good one wasn't it ?

Hahahahahahahaha you are funny Nicko.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:23 am

Andy won't answer me because he has no answers...!!!

70 % of Labour MPs represent constituencies who voted to leave the EU... so why doesn't Andy back the will of the majority of Labour voters, as is the way of democracy...!!!???

And why are so many of these Labour MPs refusing to back the will of their electorate...!!!???

It makes no sense!!!

And is political suicide!!!

by Tommy Monk Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:12 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswj55

John McDonnell on hardtalk will be available soon to watch here...

Listen to the wafffle he talks...

Then at the end he admits that he used to have an office in Brussels as he was in charge of the "EU fund for London"... which in reality Is UK taxpayer money that goes to the EU and then they take loads of it and then give us a little bit back... and as the little bit that comes back to us goes through "redirection" by people like McDonnell, then you can bet your life that that it's riddled with gravy train corruption too...

No wonder McDonnell is so keen on staying in the EU and keeping the gravy train rolling...!!!

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