Brexit changes by the minute.

First topic message reminder :

The gurning old harriden doesn't know whether to shit, shake or shiver. No confidence votes still arriving. 3 votes lost today in the HoC. Contempt of Parliament. An almost certain lost vote next Tuesday on her Brexit deal.
She will surely fall on her sword.
And not before time.

Christ in a teacup, this is the worst government in living memory.


MPs vote to block no deal Brexit as Government loses third vote in a day

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-government-loses-key-brexit-13686952#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

And yet you did, showing how two face you also are

I admit I get annoyed at times and my passions get the better of me, that is simple being human. Which unlike you I admit to my faults. The dim witted left on here, of which you are a part, think they are infallible. To be honest of late, I think you have become quite the smarmy dick.

See its as easy for me to pick holes in what a baby you are

People are also bored at you not respecting democracy and hence why I will continue pull up a Corbynite drone

There already was a vote, how about you stop stamping your feet and start respecting democracy

The moment you say one more, vote, opens the door, to this continually happenning. Accept that brainwashed brain of yours, cannot compute that, it seems

If I seem smarmy with you it's because I, along with others, get sick of going round the same shitty circles with you

I really dont care what you and the other brainless lefties think. As I have never been here to make friends, as its a forum.

Its long overdue you muppets got exposed for what you are. Nothing but elitist snobs, thinking letist views do not have any faults.

So if you do not like that, then tough shit. Its about time you got put in your place

The reality is, you are so blind to see, that as soon as you open the door to a second Referendum, then it will open the door to even more That then become endless. As then the previous one is always challenged to hold another. Making having a referendum redundent

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

And yet you did, showing how two face you also are

I admit I get annoyed at times and my passions get the better of me, that is simple being human. Which unlike you I admit to my faults. The dim witted left on here, of which you are a part, think they are infallible. To be honest of late, I think you have become quite the smarmy dick.

See its as easy for me to pick holes in what a baby you are

People are also bored at you not respecting democracy and hence why I will continue pull up a Corbynite drone

There already was a vote, how about you stop stamping your feet and start respecting democracy

The moment you say one more, vote, opens the door, to this continually happenning. Accept that brainwashed brain of yours, cannot compute that, it seems

If I seem smarmy with you it's because I, along with others, get sick of going round the same shitty circles with you

I really dont care what you and the other brainless lefties think. As I have never been here to make friends, as its a forum.

Its long overdue you muppets got exposed for what you are. Nothing but elitist snobs, thinking letist views do not have any faults.

So if you do not like that, then tough shit. Its about time you got put in your place

The reality is, you are so blind to see, that as soon as you open the door to a second Referendum, then it will open the door to even more That then become endless. As then the previous one is always challenged to hold another. Making having a referendum redundent

Wrong.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

I really dont care what you and the other brainless lefties think. As I have never been here to make friends, as its a forum.

Its long overdue you muppets got exposed for what you are. Nothing but elitist snobs, thinking letist views do not have any faults.

So if you do not like that, then tough shit. Its about time you got put in your place

The reality is, you are so blind to see, that as soon as you open the door to a second Referendum, then it will open the door to even more That then become endless. As then the previous one is always challenged to hold another. Making having a referendum redundent

Wrong.

Really?

Because the left have stated so?

Again if leave lost or remain lost again, do you really think that will be the end of it?

Either would demand another, just as you have been doing since you lost all ability to respect democracy

Quite simply,we had a vote,remain lost , what is there to argue about ? and if someone says we didn't know what would happen, tough shit, leave won !

Speaks volumes when a life long Labour supporter. Says he will leave the country if Corbyn becomes PM

Eilzel wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:If brexit isn't delivered, but instead we see a stitch up by current politicians... then there are 17.4 million people ready to vote for either UKIP or a new brexit party... And with that number of votes here in UK, it will not only ensure this party become next government, but also ensure a massive majority in parliament!!!

Remember when you thought UKIP would win a huge number of votes and seats in 2015?

Ukip got more votes in 2015 than the lib dems and the snp combined...!!!

Tough shit. UKIP. The natural party of racist losers.

Snp are the racists... racist against the English...


Leave won the referendum... remoaners are the losers!!!

Labour, the natural racists against Jews !

Just like the Nazis... love Muslims, hate Jews...!

If Tea May goes, who replaces her? No one will want her job.

Treason May (or T bag) needs to go... she is a stitch up on brexit and it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day... we need a brexit prime minister, and David Davis, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-mogg... and there are many more who could do a better job...

Tommy Monk wrote:
Treason May (or T bag) needs to go... she is a stitch up on brexit and it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day... we need a brexit prime minister, and David Davis, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-mogg... and there are many more who could do a better job...

What are the chances?

Better to go with what you suggest for Brexit...Cold Turkey.  Do without a Prime Minister, just as (your suggestion) doing without trading partners.  Fook 'em...a pox on all their houses.  Who needs 'em?

Too late now but when the referendum happened and leave won, the whole of parliament whatever their opinions before the vote, should have got behind the vote and worked out the deal a deal that would be acceptable and gone to the EU with it, all the in fighting and trying to overturn the referendum has only given Britain a weak hand and EU the upper hand. I have to say I think no one in parliament thought the vote would go as it did and everyone was left suprised and floundering, David Cameron dropped the hot potato as quickly as possible he called the referendum he should have seen it through.

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
Treason May (or T bag) needs to go... she is a stitch up on brexit and it is becoming clearer and clearer by the day... we need a brexit prime minister, and David Davis, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-mogg... and there are many more who could do a better job...

What are the chances?

Better to go with what you suggest for Brexit...Cold Turkey.  Do without a Prime Minister, just as (your suggestion) doing without trading partners.  Fook 'em...a pox on all their houses.  Who needs 'em?

 

If they had a sporting chance, Tommy would be voting for Tommy Robinson, Nick Griffin , Hatie Flopkins or the new darling of the racist alt right , wife beating anti muslimist Rod Liddle.
This  present shower of shit cannot manage a market stall let alone a country.
A complete omnishambolic clusterfuck of epic proportions.
We need a General Election and a delay in article 50, in order to have a second referendum with a completely new, renegotiated remain settlement that gives us far more than we we presently get.
They need us to stay, let's get a better deal.

With Corbyn, MacDonald, the terrorists' friends, Diane Abbott more Bud Abbott on a bad day and the Anti semitists? Really?.

Tea survived the vote.

Tommy, what do you think she's gonna do? All three of the major political parties opposed Brexit. Of course they are going to work to stall it...and keep on working even after the vote.

This isn't government by referendum. Parliament runs things over there. Haha...you guys said change it!, but left no one in charge to do it. Pure impotence.

My view, where Brexit went wrong with negotitations. Other than the EU being authoritarian. Is that from the start. A cross party commision. Should have been set up to negotiate the divorce from the EU.

That would have meant all parties would have been represented within this negotiation with the EU.

At best now, I think a no deal is best. As I guarantee, we have to call the EU's bluff. Which if we hold out will continually damage the strengh of the Euro. Placing a fear into the EU nations of a recession.

No deal means no markets. Economically, the UK ceases to exist.

Original Quill wrote:No deal means no markets.  Economically, the UK ceases to exist.

That is just gibberish

So you think we only have markets with the EU?

If the EU does not settle the EU will go into recession and then break up anyway

Its a win, win situation for the UK

I think they Should have bombed to UK back to the Stone age for it's insolence, Like we did Afghanistan and dozens of other annoying nations....

As if trump is going to defend the Uk they are as good as conquered if the EU decides to.

veya_victaous wrote:I think they Should have bombed to UK back to the Stone age for it's insolence, Like we did Afghanistan and dozens of other annoying nations....

As if trump is going to defend the Uk they are as good as conquered if the EU decides to.

They could try and end up losing, with the US, Canada etc behind the UK

If that is the path the EU wants to take. Bring it on. Hitler also tried to bomb the UK back to the stone age and failed

Original Quill wrote:Tea survived the vote.

Tommy, what do you think she's gonna do?  All three of the major political parties opposed Brexit.  Of course they are going to work to stall it...and keep on working even after the vote.

This isn't government by referendum.  Parliament runs things over there.  Haha...you guys said change it!, but left no one in charge to do it.  Pure impotence.

Both Tory and Labour stood on their manifesto pledge to respect the result of referendum and to deliver brexit, in the 2017 election... And parliament has already voted overwhelmingly to do that too...!


So, all there really is left to do, is to work out a mutually beneficial set of trading tariffs with the EU as us being an outside country, or we trade with them under WTO rules...


It's quite simple really...


And as the EU have shown that they don't want to accept any sort of tariff free trade deal that actually allows us to leave the eu as an outside country... their "offer" is effectively just a reworded way of us remaining in the EU... staying in the customs union and single market indefinitely, and therefore having to keep having "free movement" and keep the subservience of accepting all the EU rules and regulations, and keep being under the jurisdiction of the European courts etc, which also means we will have to stay in the common agriculture and fisheries policies too.. so you see, it's not leaving the EU at all!!!


So... the only way to go forward now is WTO rules...!!!


And I bet they'll soon start trying to negotiate a lower tariff trade deal with us when we actually leave on WTO rule basis come March 29th...!


But it doesnt matter if they don't... cos we can then just buy stuff from elsewhere for much cheaper anyway!!!

Quill, No deal does not mean no markets; it just means trade deals in which the UK will get less favourable treatment that if it remained in the EU. Trade with one of the world's biggest economies doesn't just stop. To say otherwise IS fear mongering. Though, to think the UK leaving will benefit us more than Europe is also delusional thinking.

Veya, what was that tirade all about?

Didge, if no deal is a win win situation for the UK then why did you vote remain in the first place?

Eilzel wrote:Quill, No deal does not mean no markets; it just means trade deals in which the UK will get less favourable treatment that if it remained in the EU. Trade with one of the world's biggest economies doesn't just stop. To say otherwise IS fear mongering. Though, to think the UK leaving will benefit us more than Europe is also delusional thinking.

Veya, what was that tirade all about?

Didge, if no deal is a win win situation for the UK then why did you vote remain in the first place?

Because again I respect democracy and the vote results

So now, we need to play hardball

To me the EU needs to reform, or it will implode

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Quill, No deal does not mean no markets; it just means trade deals in which the UK will get less favourable treatment that if it remained in the EU. Trade with one of the world's biggest economies doesn't just stop. To say otherwise IS fear mongering. Though, to think the UK leaving will benefit us more than Europe is also delusional thinking.

Veya, what was that tirade all about?

Didge, if no deal is a win win situation for the UK then why did you vote remain in the first place?

Because again I respect democracy and the vote results

So now, we need to play hardball

To me the EU needs to reform, or it will implode

That tells me why you support Brexit now, but why did you vote remain in 2016?

Veya seems to think the EU is some sort of fascist dictatorship... although it's supposed to be just a simple trading organisation... although it is one that is ever increasingly turning into a fascist dictatorship...

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Because again I respect democracy and the vote results

So now, we need to play hardball

To me the EU needs to reform, or it will implode

That tells me why you support Brexit now, but why did you vote remain in 2016?

Really?

Based on what?

Your illusions?

I want to remain in the EU and this needs to be reformed

The people have voted and I respect that decision

Hence now we have to get the best deal

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Because again I respect democracy and the vote results

So now, we need to play hardball

To me the EU needs to reform, or it will implode

That tells me why you support Brexit now, but why did you vote remain in 2016?

Really?

Based on what?

Your illusions?

I want to remain in the EU and this needs to be reformed

The people have voted and I respect that decision

Hence now we have to get the best deal

You really are impossible.

You JUST SAID no deal is win win for the UK. Which obviously means leaving in your opinion is GOOD.

So WHY did you vote Remain in 2016?

It's a simple question, but obvious beyond you, so forget it.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Really?

Based on what?

Your illusions?

I want to remain in the EU and this needs to be reformed

The people have voted and I respect that decision

Hence now we have to get the best deal

You really are impossible.

You JUST SAID no deal is win win for the UK. Which obviously means leaving in your opinion is GOOD.

So WHY did you vote Remain in 2016?

It's a simple question, but obvious beyond you, so forget it.

So okay, here is your viewed easily explained as to being warped

If for example the Public voted in governement that pledged to make it legal for gay marriage and I was for arguments sake against gay marriage. Has then my position change, if I respect the decision of the public on this?

The answer is no, I would still be against gay marriage, but respect the decision through democracy of the majority

Now that we have had the vote and I have lost, I still would rather that we remained and had the EU reform, but because the people have voted to leave. I respect their decision

I have answered it now many times and it means your mind is closed to this

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

Really?

Based on what?

Your illusions?

I want to remain in the EU and this needs to be reformed

The people have voted and I respect that decision

Hence now we have to get the best deal

You really are impossible.

You JUST SAID no deal is win win for the UK. Which obviously means leaving in your opinion is GOOD.

So WHY did you vote Remain in 2016?

It's a simple question, but obvious beyond you, so forget it.

So okay, here is your viewed easily explained as to being warped

If for example the Public voted in governement that pledged to make it legal for gay marriage and I was for arguments sake against gay marriage. Has then my position change, if I respect the decision of the public on this?

The answer is no, I would still be against gay marriage, but respect the decision through democracy of the majority

Now that we have had the vote and I have lost, I still would rather that we remained and had the EU reform, but because the people have voted to leave. I respect their decision

I have answered it now many times and it means your mind is closed to this

You don't think you understand the question.

I know you support Brexit now. And I know why you do.

My question was why (meaning for what reasons) did you vote Remain in 2016?

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

So okay, here is your viewed easily explained as to being warped

If for example the Public voted in governement that pledged to make it legal for gay marriage and I was for arguments sake against gay marriage. Has then my position change, if I respect the decision of the public on this?

The answer is no, I would still be against gay marriage, but respect the decision through democracy of the majority

Now that we have had the vote and I have lost, I still would rather that we remained and had the EU reform, but because the people have voted to leave. I respect their decision

I have answered it now many times and it means your mind is closed to this

You don't think you understand the question.

I know you support Brexit now. And I know why you do.

My question was why (meaning for what reasons) did you vote Remain in 2016?

lol, do you believe that?

Again I voted remain, as I believed we would be better off as a block with trade and that we should look to reform, whilst still within the EU

We cannot do that if we leave, but again I respect the decision of the populace and now we have to get the best deal

Which means playing hardball

So believe what you like'

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

So okay, here is your viewed easily explained as to being warped

If for example the Public voted in governement that pledged to make it legal for gay marriage and I was for arguments sake against gay marriage. Has then my position change, if I respect the decision of the public on this?

The answer is no, I would still be against gay marriage, but respect the decision through democracy of the majority

Now that we have had the vote and I have lost, I still would rather that we remained and had the EU reform, but because the people have voted to leave. I respect their decision

I have answered it now many times and it means your mind is closed to this

You don't think you understand the question.

I know you support Brexit now. And I know why you do.

My question was why (meaning for what reasons) did you vote Remain in 2016?

lol, do you believe that?

Again I voted remain, as I believed we would be better off as a block with trade and that we should look to reform, whilst still within the EU

We cannot do that if we leave, but again I respect the decision of the populace and now we have to get the best deal

Which means playing hardball

So believe what you like'

See, not hard was it?

Interesting you now think no deal is best (win win) for the UK. Likely many former Leavers have also reviewed former beliefs

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:


lol, do you believe that?

Again I voted remain, as I believed we would be better off as a block with trade and that we should look to reform, whilst still within the EU

We cannot do that if we leave, but again I respect the decision of the populace and now we have to get the best deal

Which means playing hardball

So believe what you like'

See, not hard was it?

Interesting you now think no deal is best (win win) for the UK. Likely many former Leavers have also reviewed former beliefs

In the current situation it is the best action to take

As to me saying before many times, on the EU, you clearly must have closed your mind again  

No surprise there, when you support Corbyn lol

I mean I would never vote for Trump, if a US citizen, even if I like some of his foreign policies. As I think he is a bigot and prejudiced.

You however support the Far left leader, who is antisemitic and is mates with extremist groups. Who would have no hesitation, crucifying homosexuals. That should make you sit up and listen and look to also take back Labour from the Far left extremists, but you would rather have again a failed socialist experiment. Placed now onto the UK

The mind boggles

Best you check your morality compass mate

Thor wrote:

Original Quill wrote:No deal means no markets.  Economically, the UK ceases to exist.

That is just gibberish

So you think we only have markets with the EU?

If the EU does not settle the EU will go into recession and then break up anyway

Its a win, win situation for the UK

All you have done is eliminate European markets. If you think that's a win, good luck.

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:


lol, do you believe that?

Again I voted remain, as I believed we would be better off as a block with trade and that we should look to reform, whilst still within the EU

We cannot do that if we leave, but again I respect the decision of the populace and now we have to get the best deal

Which means playing hardball

So believe what you like'

See, not hard was it?

Interesting you now think no deal is best (win win) for the UK. Likely many former Leavers have also reviewed former beliefs

In the current situation it is the best action to take

As to me saying before many times, on the EU, you clearly must have closed your mind again  

No surprise there, when you support Corbyn lol

I mean I would never vote for Trump, if a US citizen, even if I like some of his foreign policies. As I think he is a bigot and prejudiced.

You however support the Far left leader, who is antisemitic and is mates with extremist groups. Who would have no hesitation, crucifying homosexuals. That should make you sit up and listen and look to also take back Labour from the Far left extremists, but you would rather have again a failed socialist experiment. Placed now onto the UK

The mind boggles

Best you check your morality compass mate

I don't 'support' Corbyn, I just think he's the best of a less than stellar parliament. There are no outstanding politicians at the moment and Labour's calls for an election are opportunist grandstanding not in the national interest.

I like a lot of Corbyn's ideas and I hate the current government, that hardly counts as resounding support but if casting me as a Corbyn cheerleader makes debates easier for you then knock yourself out.

Eilzel wrote:

Thor wrote:

In the current situation it is the best action to take

As to me saying before many times, on the EU, you clearly must have closed your mind again  

No surprise there, when you support Corbyn lol

I mean I would never vote for Trump, if a US citizen, even if I like some of his foreign policies. As I think he is a bigot and prejudiced.

You however support the Far left leader, who is antisemitic and is mates with extremist groups. Who would have no hesitation, crucifying homosexuals. That should make you sit up and listen and look to also take back Labour from the Far left extremists, but you would rather have again a failed socialist experiment. Placed now onto the UK

The mind boggles

Best you check your morality compass mate

I don't 'support' Corbyn, I just think he's the best of a less than stellar parliament. There are no outstanding politicians at the moment and Labour's calls for an election are opportunist grandstanding not in the national interest.

I like a lot of Corbyn's ideas and I hate the current government, that hardly counts as resounding support but if casting me as a Corbyn cheerleader makes debates easier for you then knock yourself out.

So you hate the current governement as I do, but I would never sell my soul to vote for Corbyn

For the record, if Labour took back their party from the Far left (which is now impossible, when members are a majority of the Far left), I would vote for them

Corbyn is nothing more than a puppet for the Far left

The reality is you would vote for Labour under Corbyn, at your own peril

I never would

He is an extremist and would bring ruin to this country and thinks Venezuela socialism is the answer. Capitalism has its faults, but nothing compared to the failed socialism that Corbyn wishes to introduce. He has his base support of people who think Stalin was great. The mind boggles. Hitler was barbaric, as was Stalin and Mao. Yet today, its seen as a good thing to support these leftist murderers.

So if Labour cannot get back control, I will vote for the new centrist party

Do you know what is really sad here Eilzel. I take on your criticism and answer this, but you take mine to you, as a personal afront to you. When I call you out on wrongs I see with Corbyn by supporting the present Labour party. The fact you seem oblivious to the problems now with labour. How it has been hijacked by the Far left with membership. Calling the shots on who is going to be selected. Is not decmoracy. Its very much like the how the Nazi's and Communists took control through authoritarian means. Labour now has MP's with a threat of diselection, based on them not being in agreement with Corbyn and the Far left. Its like a passive version of"The Night of the long Knives". So much so, they are looking to take over the entire labour party. Which will in the end see Labour obtain power for one term and then enter the wilderness of politics for decades. They will spell the end of Labour as an opposition in the end. Which I do not want to see happen. As the country needs balance.

Again, my view is that this country would be better placed with a left and right goverment. That has to then compremise. That will never happen under the Far left and you should be as worried of the Far left as I am, as we both are of the Far right.

Reasons I voted to leave, 1, I want the British Parliament to make our laws [no matter I might disagree with them]
2, Why should an unelected Court tell us who we can or cannot deport ? 3,
Why should a large amount Money we pay support useless French Farmers ?
4,Why do we have to put up with French Trawlers raping our Fishing waters ? and a bloody lot more besides !

Much the same as me nicko...


I agree totally with your list!

nicko wrote:Reasons I voted to leave, 1,    I want the British Parliament to make our laws [no matter I might disagree with them]
2,  Why should an unelected Court tell us who we can or cannot deport ?                                                                       3,
Why should a large amount Money we pay support useless French Farmers ?
4,Why do we have to put up with French Trawlers raping our Fishing waters ? and a bloody lot more besides !

But, wasn't the British Parliament the body that passed legislation (laws) to join the European EC in the first place in 1961, and again in 1967? And again in 1969, which was accepted finally a couple of years later?

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community on 1 January 1973 with Denmark and Ireland. So...I reckon you want the British Parliament to make your laws...but um, just not this one? Are there any other exceptions you have in mind? We don't want to miss anything.

Now, as to your unrelenting insistence that the vote (to leave) shouldn't be revisited, this would be the second revisit, no? I mean, didn't the Labour government seek renegotiation of the membership in 1975? So, it's only when you win that you want the result to stick, is that it?

Listen, you Brits have been playing ping-pong with EU membership since the EU was invented. Don't preach to us that this time the decision is sacrosanct. The national parties have at least as much right as you do, to play a little ping-pong of their own.

Quill, we were told it was just to make trade easier, they lied.
We never voted to join anything else. They want "the United states of Europe" , I don't, in fact the way they have bullied and laughed at us over the few Months any one with pride in their country would tell them to F++k OFF !

nicko wrote:Quill,  we were told it was just to make trade easier,   they lied.
We never voted to join anything else. They want "the United states of Europe" , I don't, in fact the way they have bullied and laughed at us over the few Months any one with pride in their country would tell them to F++k OFF !

Well, I agree you got danced into the EU. I'm just saying, y'all didn't stick with it to get yourselves outta it. A referendum is just words...you've got to get people in there to make it happen, or end up losing...like you're doing now.

People in politics are rarely honorable. It's never over.

The TORIES are fucked now, 17+ million will not vote for them at the next election, the stupid buggers will take that risk, because they think we will have forgotten by then . We wont have! We have got the names of the Remainer MP's, they will lose there jobs !

Serious question Nick, who will they vote for an alternative?
I see the Tory party splitting left/right.

Don't know yet Andy, Farage is trying to get a new party together, I might vote for the Raving Lunatic Lot

Andy wrote:The gurning old harriden doesn't know whether to shit, shake or shiver. No confidence votes still arriving. 3 votes lost today in the HoC. Contempt of Parliament. An almost certain lost vote next Tuesday on her Brexit deal.
She will surely fall on her sword.
And not before time.

Christ in a teacup, this is the worst government in living memory.


MPs vote to block no deal Brexit as Government loses third vote in a day

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-government-loses-key-brexit-13686952#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Wales international Neville Southall's take of the whole mess was > >

"Brexit is like having a massive shit then realising you run out of toilet paper
You need to move but not sure how and where to go
But where ever u go it will leave nasty smell"

Neville Southall @NevilleSouthall




As good a summary as any, innit Andy? 

nicko wrote:The TORIES are fucked now,  17+ million will not vote for them at the next election,    the stupid buggers will take that risk, because they think we will have forgotten by then .  We wont have! We have got the names of the Remainer MP's,  they will lose there jobs !

That's why, unlike Cold War days, the Russians have targeted Conservatives and Republicans. The right is the easier mark.