Brexit changes by the minute.

First topic message reminder :

The gurning old harriden doesn't know whether to shit, shake or shiver. No confidence votes still arriving. 3 votes lost today in the HoC. Contempt of Parliament. An almost certain lost vote next Tuesday on her Brexit deal.
She will surely fall on her sword.
And not before time.

Christ in a teacup, this is the worst government in living memory.


MPs vote to block no deal Brexit as Government loses third vote in a day

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-government-loses-key-brexit-13686952#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Jules wrote:

Andy wrote:The gurning old harriden doesn't know whether to shit, shake or shiver. No confidence votes still arriving. 3 votes lost today in the HoC. Contempt of Parliament. An almost certain lost vote next Tuesday on her Brexit deal.
She will surely fall on her sword.
And not before time.

Christ in a teacup, this is the worst government in living memory.


MPs vote to block no deal Brexit as Government loses third vote in a day

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-government-loses-key-brexit-13686952#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Wales international Neville Southall's take of the whole mess was > >

"Brexit is like having a massive shit then realising you run out of toilet paper
You need to move but not sure how and where to go
But where ever u go it will leave nasty smell"

Neville Southall @NevilleSouthall




As good a summary as any, innit Andy? 

Sounds more like what the EU and the theft of UK democracy is...


They've been rumbled and the game's up!!!


But they keep on trying to make moves while stinking of shit!!!

Original Quill wrote:No deal means no markets.  Economically, the UK ceases to exist.

No it doesn't; what is in question is what terms will we trade under - WTO, single market, Canada+, Norway+ or something different.

British produced goods, services, investment and expertise are as important to European countries as their goods, services, investment and expertise are important to us, and there will always be trade between the two sides of the English Channel albeit, if things go tits up, with some uncomfortable though hopefully temporary disruption.

Do you honestly believe that the likes of huge international manufacturers such as Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi and Peugeot-Citroen are going to sit idly by while a bunch of unelected EU Commissioners put company profits and workers' jobs at risk by effectively imposing sanctions against a country that provides them with such a vast market?

Have you seen the sheer number of quality German and French cars on British roads?

For Merkel and Macron to be party to a situation as damaging as that would be political suicide, because while Juncker, Tusk, Tajani, etc. don't have to win the support of a democratic electorate in order to hold their prestigious and well paid offices, Merkel and Macron do.

+1 !

Fred M. wrote:No it doesn't; what is in question is what terms will we trade under - WTO, single market, Canada+, Norway+ or something different.

Canada does most of it's trade with us...cheaper transportation costs.  Norway?  Meh...need I comment?

Y'all are going to take a big hit.  Regional trade agreements are the thing nowadays.  Trump tried to break up the NAFTA agreement (US, Canada and Mexico), and boy did he revert when he saw what we would lose: tariffs on aluminum = no aircraft or automobile parts, etc.  The only change Trump made was in the name, for 'save-face' purposes.  Trump also withdrew from the TPP, and look at the trade war we now have with China, second largest economy in the world.

GB is going to be the only lady at the ball with no dance partner.

Original Quill wrote:

Fred M. wrote:No it doesn't; what is in question is what terms will we trade under - WTO, single market, Canada+, Norway+ or something different.

Canada does most of it's trade with us...cheaper transportation costs.  Norway?  Meh...need I comment?

Y'all are going to take a big hit.  Regional trade agreements are the thing nowadays.  Trump tried to break up the NAFTA agreement (US, Canada and Mexico), and boy did he revert when he saw what we would lose: tariffs on aluminum = no aircraft or automobile parts, etc.  The only change Trump made was in the name, for 'save-face' purposes.  Trump also withdrew from the TPP, and look at the trade war we now have with China, second largest economy in the world.

GB is going to be the only lady at the ball with no dance partner.

By "Norway+" and "Canada+" I am talking about mutually-agreed customs and tariff systems - not the countries themselves.

What Trump has done and what the EU and UK negotiations are all about are entirely different things. Britain has been prepared to compromise in its negotiations with the EU; Trump doesn't know the meaning of the word, and if he does he's too damn arrogant and bloody-minded to countenance it.

You're not the only one to run down the UK, its achievements and aspirations in this forum, but at least you're not like certain other members in that you do not border on racism compared to their so-called "considered" opinions and observations, most of which might not unreasonably be regarded as utter crap.

The current negotiations are not going well, I'll grant you; all I am saying is that Europeans have much at stake as do we, and I'm a big believer in the (seasonably apt) saying that "turkeys do not vote for Christmas."

What do you think global/regional trade agreements do?

I"m not running the UK down. I'm simply describing a formula. You add too much of this, or too much of that, it doesn't work. It's based upon universal laws, not on which country you favor.

Fred M. wrote:The current negotiations are not going well, I'll grant you; all I am saying is that Europeans have much at stake as do we, and I'm a big believer in the (seasonably apt) saying that "turkeys do not vote for Christmas."

The UK is a big player, true. But 'stand-alone' big? And that's just insider measures. We haven't even started talking about restraint-of-trade measures that cartels typically use.

Original Quill wrote:

Fred M. wrote:The current negotiations are not going well, I'll grant you; all I am saying is that Europeans have much at stake as do we, and I'm a big believer in the (seasonably apt) saying that "turkeys do not vote for Christmas."

The UK is a big player, true.  But 'stand-alone' big?  And that's just insider measures.  We haven't even started talking about restraint-of-trade measures that cartels typically use.

We are the 5th largest economy in the world... we can always stand on our own two feet... as well as helping others stand on theirs... and we will never be 'stand alone'...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

The UK is a big player, true.  But 'stand-alone' big?  And that's just insider measures.  We haven't even started talking about restraint-of-trade measures that cartels typically use.

We are the 5th largest economy in the world... we can always stand on our own two feet... as well as helping others stand on theirs... and we will never be 'stand alone'...!!!

I know. California is the 6th largest economy in the world. But we don't turn our backs on alliances and associations that enhance trade possibilities. I'm not criticizing your size; I criticize your intentions.

Our intentions are to restore democracy here in UK, and we are happy to trade.

Tommy Monk wrote:Our intentions are to restore democracy here in UK, and we are happy to trade.

It's not democracy you are lacking. It's self-sufficiency. Unfortunately, you threw out the baby with the bath.

Not at all...

'I nailed it!'

Wafffle...

Original Quill wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


We are the 5th largest economy in the world... we can always stand on our own two feet... as well as helping others stand on theirs... and we will never be 'stand alone'...!!!

I know.  California is the 6th largest economy in the world.  But we don't turn our backs on alliances and associations that enhance trade possibilities.  I'm not criticizing your size; I criticize your intentions.

Nor do we.

But we have turned our back on a political system - for which we have never been permitted to vote - which would inevitably lead us into becoming simply a province of a European superstate, with a judiciary which has the power to overturn laws enacted by our democratically elected parliament and impose the will of its unelected and virtually unaccountable executive through mandatory "directives."

You have the right to elect your President and state Governor. We would have the right simply to elect local representatives and a Westminster Parliament, all of whom would be subservient to an executive administration of "buggins' turn" appointee bureaucrats and a supreme court comprising "judges", some of whom, in the past, have not even been legally qualified.

So... Japan has a free trade deal with the EU without being controlled by the EU, without being part of any of the EU...


Why is that so impossible for the UK to have such a trade deal and not be part of any of the rest of it...?


As we only want to trade with them, and the EU is supposed to only be about trade...!?

It's too bad that the sovereignty issues got into the trade mix. But you, in the UK, are going to find it lonely. By giving away a seat at the table, you have given away your leverage.

Tommy Monk wrote:So... Japan has a free trade deal with the EU without being controlled by the EU, without being part of any of the EU...


Why is that so impossible for the UK to have such a trade deal and not be part of any of the rest of it...?


As we only want to trade with them, and the EU is supposed to only be about trade...!?

When has anyone ever controlled Japan? It took a bloody atom bomb to get them to surrender in the war!

Yes HT...


And quill... we have given up our seat on the WTO to be in the EU... And don't make the mistake of thinking that the EU is capable of any change apart from grabbing more power and control...


They even openly admit that they only want ever increasing political union... which means the EU want ever more power and control...

Teresa Mays deal is not what we want... it is an EU stitch up from the EU...


So... as the EU don't want to deal... the only option left is NO DEAL!!!


LETS GET ON WITH IT!!!


NO DEAL IS FINE BY ME!!!

Article 50 should now be delayed.for.......10 years.
That way, most of the senile 70 and 80 year olds who voted against the wishes of the next 2 generations will be history. Do they still harbour grudges against the Germans and Eastern Europeans? Possibly.
And we can continue with a united Europe.
We will still be able to renegotiate our terms and conditions, like we always have, ie no to Schengen, no to the Euro, passport control in place, fishing rights, farmers subsidies.

Not ALL 70 to 8O year olds are "senile" you agegist twat, I think most are more aware of what goes on around them than brainwashed Socialists like yourself !

Andy wrote:Article 50 should now be delayed.for.......10 years.
That way, most of the senile 70 and 80 year olds who voted against the wishes of the next 2 generations will be history. Do they still harbour grudges against the Germans and Eastern Europeans? Possibly.
And we can continue with a united Europe.
We will still be able to renegotiate our terms and conditions, like we always have, ie no to Schengen, no to the Euro, passport control in place, fishing rights, farmers subsidies.

Do you disapprove of the way senile people voted, or is it any old person, whether they're senile or not?

Andy forgets that 70% of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted to leave the EU...


If Labour try to stitch up the people by stopping us leave the EU, then they will be relegated to the state of a minor party like the lib dems... as they will lose millions of votes and most of their seats in parliament.


The UK voted to leave the EU... time to get on with it!!!