How Hitler's nuclear ambitions were sunk with a tiny ferry in a Norwegian lake

Hitler was just a ferry-ride away from getting hold of a crucial ingredient needed for an atomic weapon to blow up London, a new documentary has discovered.

In the middle of a Norwegian lake, 100 miles from Oslo, naval historians and scientists have located the boat on which the Nazis were transporting barrels of heavy water for use in German nuclear reactors.

The Hydro ferry was sunk on Churchill’s orders in 1944, but until now nobody knew if the craft really was containing vital component that Hitler needed for his nuclear arsenal.

For the new National Geographic series ‘Drain The Oceans’ scientists used multi-beam sonar technology to map the lake bed and virtually raise the ferry to find out what was on board.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/09/01/hitlers-nuclear-ambitions-sunk-tiny-ferry-norwegian-lake/

Old story. Even made into a Sunday documentary, some 30-years ago.

Original Quill wrote:Old story.  Even made into a Sunday documentary, some 30-years ago.

Oh for fuck sake

Show me that documentry then?

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Old story.  Even made into a Sunday documentary, some 30-years ago.

Oh for fuck sake

Show me that documentry then?

This is an example of someone creating a story where none exists. Big drama: was the ship carrying heavy water? Of course it was.

The story of Vermok was well known. Incidentally, it was a Norwegian operation, not British:

Wiki wrote:In February 1943, a team of SOE-trained Norwegian commandos succeeded in destroying the production facility with a second attempt, Operation Gunnerside. Operation Gunnerside was later evaluated by SOE as the most successful act of sabotage in all of World War II.[2] These actions were followed by Allied bombing raids. The Germans elected to cease operation and remove the remaining heavy water to Germany. Norwegian resistance forces sank the ferry, SF Hydro, on Lake Tinn, preventing the heavy water from being removed.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Oh for fuck sake

Show me that documentry then?

This is an example of someone creating a story where none exists.  Big drama: was the ship carrying heavy water?  Of course it was.

The story of Vermok was well known.  Incidentally, it was a Norwegian operation, not British:

Wiki wrote:In February 1943, a team of SOE-trained Norwegian commandos succeeded in destroying the production facility with a second attempt, Operation Gunnerside. Operation Gunnerside was later evaluated by SOE as the most successful act of sabotage in all of World War II.[2] These actions were followed by Allied bombing raids. The Germans elected to cease operation and remove the remaining heavy water to Germany. Norwegian resistance forces sank the ferry, SF Hydro, on Lake Tinn, preventing the heavy water from being removed.

ha ha ha OMG

Nobody actually knew whether it was carrying heavy water and why they made an expedition

Do you understsnd this?

Seriously?

Yes or no?

Did you even read the article?

Yes or no?

And you use wiki?



Where is your sources dummy?

So another case of Quill making shit up

Still waiting for you you to tell what this documentry was called, made 30 years ago.

Published histories

A 1962 book by John D. Drummond, titled But For These Men (ISBN 0705700453), tells a true account of two dramatic raids: one on the Norsk Hydro heavy water factory at Vemork, and another on the railway ferry "Hydro" to destroy Germany's heavy water production efforts.

The book The Real Heroes of Telemark: The True Story of the Secret Mission to Stop Hitler's Atomic Bomb by Ray Mears, published by Hodder & Stoughton 2003 (ISBN 0-340-83016-6) describes the events from the perspective of the unique survival skills of the Norwegian commandos. It accompanied a BBC television documentary series, The Real Heroes of Telemark, which sticks more to the facts than the film it is named after. It also describes the survival aspects of the attack: how to survive for months in a mountain cabin.

The book Skis Against the Atom (ISBN 0-942323-07-6) is a first-hand account by Knut Haukelid, one of the Gunnerside raiders who stayed behind.

Jens-Anton Poulsson (Swallow/Grouse) has told the story in the book The Heavy Water Raid: The Race for the Atom Bomb 1942–1944, Orion forlag As (2009), ISBN 978-82-458-0869-8.

The ill-fated Operation Freshman is covered extensively in two books: Richard Wiggan's Operation Freshman: The Rjukan Heavy Water Raid 1942, William Kimber & Co Ltd (1986), ISBN 978-0-7183-0571-0, and the more recent, Jostein Berglyd's Operation Freshman: The Actions and the Aftermath, Leandoer & Ekholm (2007), ISBN 978-91-975895-9-8.

Richard Rhodes's Pulitzer Prize-winning book The Making of the Atomic Bomb includes details on the events in chapters 14–15.

Leo Marks' 1998 book Between Silk and Cyanide: A Codemaker's Story 1941–1945 covers the story in some detail. Marks was SOE's cryptographer. He knew the Norwegian team, trained them in cryptography so they could communicate with SOE back in England, and avidly followed their progress after they were dropped in Norway. Published by HarperCollins. ISBN 0-684-86780-X

The raid is also the subject of the book, Assault in Norway: Sabotaging the Nazi Nuclear Program by Thomas Gallagher, published by Lyons Press (2002), ISBN 978-1-58574-750-4. This book is based on the author's interviews with many of the commandos.

An account of Operation Gunnerside is told in The Winter Fortress: The Epic Mission to Sabotage Hitlers Atomic Bomb, by Neal Bascomb, published by Houghton Mifflin (2016), ISBN 978-0-544-36805-7.

Damien Lewis's 2016 book Hunting Hitler's Nukes: The Secret Race to Stop the Nazi Bomb, ISBN 978-1-78648-208-2, covers the raid and the subsequent sinking of the SF Hydro in detail.

Fiction, film, and video coverage

The première of Kampen om tungtvannet on 5 February 1948. From left: Knut Haukelid, Joachim Rønneberg, Jens Anton Poulsson (shaking hands with King Haakon VII), Kasper Idland.

A 1948 Norwegian film based on Operations Freshman and Grouse, called Kampen om tungtvannet, features performances by at least four of the original participants in the raid.

A 1965 British film based on the Operation Gunnerside raid, titled The Heroes of Telemark. It features a performance by one of the original participants in the raid – as the Nazi pursuer of the escapees.

A 1966 book by Czech author František Běhounek, titled Rokle u Rjukanu (Gorge at Rjukan), is a fiction inspired by the events.

A 1979 Canadian movie and TV-series titled A Man Called Intrepid, based on the book of the same name by William Henry Stevenson. It features David Niven, Michael York and Barbara Hershey.

A late 2003 game by Totally Games was released named Secret Weapons Over Normandy, a fiction game which has its story based off real life occurrences during World War II, features a segment which alludes to the plant and attempted raids.

On 8 November 2005, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting – WGBH Educational Foundation in Boston, MA aired a program which documented the work of a team of underwater archaeologists exploring the sunken ferry, SF Hydro in Lake Tinn.

In 2013, for the 70th anniversary of Operation Gunnerside, BBC News interviewed Joachim Rønneberg, the leader and last surviving member of the Gunnerside team.

A six-episode TV mini-series titled The Heavy Water War (The Saboteurs in the UK) tells the story with a particular emphasis on the role of Leif Tronstad. This Norwegian-Danish-British co-production is in 6 episodes, the first of which was initially broadcast on 4 January 2015.

In the 2014 game Enemy Front, one of the main missions takes place during the sabotage of the Vemork Heavy Water Plant. During this mission, the player is led by a character called "Lief Rønneberg", who is a homage to Joachim Rønneberg and its involvement in Operation Gunnerside.

Another fictionalization is The Saboteur, a 2017 novel by Andrew Gross.

Songs

Additionally there is a song by Swedish power metal band Sabaton called 'Saboteurs' recalling the events of Operation Gunnerside.

How does that provide evidence that this expidition did?

In your own time?

It was found in the 1990's apparently and it had the substance on board, in barrels. 21 people died when the factory was bombed but wasn't damaged, despite managing to delay the transport of the stuff until the Sunday, when it was hoped few civilians would be aboard and the efforts of the farmers around the shoreline launching boats and picking up survivors 18 people died.
This National Geographic is telling the story of the finding of the ferry
at that time.

Vintage wrote:It was found in the 1990's apparently and it had the substance on board, in barrels. 21 people died when the factory was bombed but wasn't damaged, despite managing to delay the transport of the stuff until the Sunday, when it was hoped few civilians would be aboard and the efforts of the farmers around the shoreline launching boats and picking up survivors 18 people died.  
This National Geographic is telling the story of the finding of the ferry
at that time.

Thank you Vintage

Though you never should have needed to explain

Very good, Vintage.  Add it to the list I have posted above.

This is one of those stories that, every 4 -5 years, someone gets a whim to republish, or re-do in video.  Occasionally, someone will write a fiction about it.  Kinda like the sinking of the Bismark...

Oh, you haven't heard about the sinking of the Bismark?  Well, there were these ships sailing about the North Sea, ya know...

Original Quill wrote:Very good, Vintage.  Add it to the list I have posted above.

This is one of those stories that, every 4 -5 years, someone gets a whim to republish, or re-do in video.  Occasionally, someone will write a fiction about it.  Kinda like the sinking of the Bismark...

Oh, you haven't heard about the sinking of the Bismark?  Well, there were these ships, ya know...

OMG



Talk about backtracking

Where is the fiction here Quill?

Its not like your warped view that Roosevelt made Japan attack America is it?

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Very good, Vintage.  Add it to the list I have posted above.

This is one of those stories that, every 4 -5 years, someone gets a whim to republish, or re-do in video.  Occasionally, someone will write a fiction about it.  Kinda like the sinking of the Bismark...

Oh, you haven't heard about the sinking of the Bismark?  Well, there were these ships, ya know...

Where is the fiction here Quill?

A six-episode TV mini-series titled The Heavy Water War (The Saboteurs in the UK) tells the story with a particular emphasis on the role of Leif Tronstad. This Norwegian-Danish-British co-production is in 6 episodes, the first of which was initially broadcast on 4 January 2015.

In the 2014 game Enemy Front, one of the main missions takes place during the sabotage of the Vemork Heavy Water Plant. During this mission, the player is led by a character called "Lief Rønneberg", who is a homage to Joachim Rønneberg and its involvement in Operation Gunnerside.

Another fictionalization is The Saboteur, a 2017 novel by Andrew Gross.

There have been many fictionalized versions of this story. Almost as many as Pearl Harbor.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Where is the fiction here Quill?

A six-episode TV mini-series titled The Heavy Water War (The Saboteurs in the UK) tells the story with a particular emphasis on the role of Leif Tronstad. This Norwegian-Danish-British co-production is in 6 episodes, the first of which was initially broadcast on 4 January 2015.

In the 2014 game Enemy Front, one of the main missions takes place during the sabotage of the Vemork Heavy Water Plant. During this mission, the player is led by a character called "Lief Rønneberg", who is a homage to Joachim Rønneberg and its involvement in Operation Gunnerside.

Another fictionalization is The Saboteur, a 2017 novel by Andrew Gross.

There have been many fictionalized versions of this story.  Almost as many as Pearl Harbor.

Fictionalized?

What is this?

Apologies Quill that was a lot to read.
I suppose people, especially these days, get a bit confused with actual events and historical happenings. For people like me, at my age, its relatively easy to understand while not actually being there, world war two and its events had only recently happened before I came into existance, so I was surrounded by people who had experienced it and learned almost first hand their experiences. Its a bit different for the current generation, its fairly remote history for them, something like the Napoleonic Wars or the Boer War for me. Its not a big deal for them unless they are history buffs or still have a grandparent or greatgrandparent that can tell them. Films are made of the events of these times and are of course dramatised to hold the audience, it sometimes gets mixed up with real events if we aren't careful. I have to say though if you get the average person to hear the real tale they are on the whole very interested. I for one was very suprised at the interest, sympathy and dignity shown by the public for Richard lll and his re interment, to see crowds of people who probably had little specific interest in history bow their heads as an annointed king of England's cortege passed was both poignant and uplifting, in the scheme of things - for me anyway. We must preserve the past, warts and all in order to learn what is best and worst in human beings. Oops off on one of my favourite subjects again.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

A six-episode TV mini-series titled The Heavy Water War (The Saboteurs in the UK) tells the story with a particular emphasis on the role of Leif Tronstad. This Norwegian-Danish-British co-production is in 6 episodes, the first of which was initially broadcast on 4 January 2015.

In the 2014 game Enemy Front, one of the main missions takes place during the sabotage of the Vemork Heavy Water Plant. During this mission, the player is led by a character called "Lief Rønneberg", who is a homage to Joachim Rønneberg and its involvement in Operation Gunnerside.

Another fictionalization is The Saboteur, a 2017 novel by Andrew Gross.

There have been many fictionalized versions of this story.  Almost as many as Pearl Harbor.

Fictionalized?

What is this?

You? I call it irrelevant.

Quiet now...I'm reading Vintage's post.

Vintage wrote:Apologies Quill that was a lot to read.
I suppose people, especially these days, get a bit confused with actual events and historical happenings. For people like me, at my age, its relatively easy to understand while not actually being there, world war two and its events had only recently happened before I came into existance, so I was surrounded by people who had experienced it and learned almost first hand their experiences. Its a bit different for the current generation, its fairly remote history for them, something like the Napoleonic Wars or the Boer War for me. Its not a big deal for them unless they are history buffs or still have a grandparent or greatgrandparent that can tell them. Films are made of the events of these times and are of course dramatised to hold the audience, it sometimes gets mixed up with real events if we aren't careful. I have to say though if you get the average person to hear the real tale they are on the whole very interested. I for one was very suprised at the interest, sympathy and dignity shown by the public for Richard lll and his re interment, to see crowds of people who probably had little specific interest in history bow their heads as an annointed king of England's cortege passed was both poignant and uplifting, in the scheme of things - for me anyway. We must preserve the past, warts and all in order to learn what is best and worst in human beings. Oops off on one of my favourite subjects again.

Not to minimize...this is one of the remarkable stories of WWII. Witness how much has been written about it.  It is, as I say, like the story of the Bismark.  Another story that brings chills, is the story of of the Battle of Midway...perhaps more for an American, than a Brit.

A mere 6-months after the Empire of Japan attacked Oahu (PH) Island with aircraft from six full aircraft carriers, four of those carriers lay on the bottom, off Midway Island, as a result of the Battle of Midway.  Vengeance was ours...we sunk that entire fleet with only two fully-functioning carriers, and one (Yorktown) limping along on only one engine/screw.

The Japanese were never able to launch a naval battle anywhere in the Pacific again.  They got their ass kicked wherever they looked.  More important than the loss of those aircraft carriers, were the loss of all those skilled pilots.  One of the air battles of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, was dubbed the Marianas Turkey Shoot, referring to how easy it is to shoot a dumb turkey.  From June 4th, 1942 to August, 1945, they were on the defensive...and practically on the verge of national extinction.

I have watched the film re the battle of Midway and a documentary. Definately a turning point, the Japanese did indeed awaken a sleeping tiger with Pearl Harbour. I don't know much about the Battle of Leyte Gulf, something for me to look up.
I watched a programme on PBS America the other night about the Boston Massacre which seemed a prime example of common historical knowledge and modern scientific investigation. It seems the common historical knowledge was slightly off, the scientific investigation into positions of the military and the deceased tell a slightly different story. it doesn't make a lot of difference in the end I suppose and you have to consider the attitudes of the time as to right and wrong and as to why it was deemed necessery to act in such a way or not but its all really interesting.

The Battle of Leyte Gulf was essentially the battle for the Philippine Islands.  Leyte Gulf itself is the body of water within all the islands.  My father was on the carrier USS Tripoli, of Admiral Kinkaid's Seventh Fleet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf

The American Revolutionary War is another story.  One of the best books (short) to read is by David McCullough, entitled 1776.  Also by McCullough on the Revolutionary War, is the biography of John Adams, titled simply John Adams (2001).

Americans claim the issue of the Revolutionary War was taxation, or more widely, the new practices of colonization at the time (tariffs and restrictions on trade).

But, partly, the Americans were going about causing all these wars on the frontier, with the French and the Indians.  Standing armies were expensive.  It was costly, and the British were trying to recoup their losses.

Truly, the story of American history is to watch the two Americas (the industrial/mercantile north and the agrarian/cash cropping south, dependent on slavery) grow apart.  It's happening right before our eyes, in present time.

Thank you, I'll check out the book re Revolutionary War.
I wonder how things would have panned out if there hadn't been a revolutionary war?
Would we have been better off or worse off, personally I think it has to have been a good thing overall (not just for the future USA).

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Fictionalized?

What is this?

You?  I call it irrelevant.

Quiet now...I'm reading Vintage's post.

Answer the qestion

Original Quill wrote:

Vintage wrote:Apologies Quill that was a lot to read.
I suppose people, especially these days, get a bit confused with actual events and historical happenings. For people like me, at my age, its relatively easy to understand while not actually being there, world war two and its events had only recently happened before I came into existance, so I was surrounded by people who had experienced it and learned almost first hand their experiences. Its a bit different for the current generation, its fairly remote history for them, something like the Napoleonic Wars or the Boer War for me. Its not a big deal for them unless they are history buffs or still have a grandparent or greatgrandparent that can tell them. Films are made of the events of these times and are of course dramatised to hold the audience, it sometimes gets mixed up with real events if we aren't careful. I have to say though if you get the average person to hear the real tale they are on the whole very interested. I for one was very suprised at the interest, sympathy and dignity shown by the public for Richard lll and his re interment, to see crowds of people who probably had little specific interest in history bow their heads as an annointed king of England's cortege passed was both poignant and uplifting, in the scheme of things - for me anyway. We must preserve the past, warts and all in order to learn what is best and worst in human beings. Oops off on one of my favourite subjects again.

Not to minimize...this is one of the remarkable stories of WWII.  Witness how much has been written about it.  It is, as I say, like the story of the Bismark.  Another story that brings chills, is the story of of the Battle of Midway...perhaps more for an American, than a Brit.

A mere 6-months after the Empire of Japan attacked Oahu (PH) Island with aircraft from six (Wrong it was four Didge Edit) full aircraft carriers, four of those carriers lay on the bottom, off Midway Island, as a result of the Battle of Midway.  Vengeance was ours...we sunk that entire fleet (wrong the entire fleet that fought a Midway was not sunk, only one other Japanese Crusier was sunk) with only two fully-functioning carriers, and one (Yorktown) limping along on only one engine/screw.

The Japanese were never able to launch a naval battle anywhere in the Pacific again.  They got their ass kicked wherever they looked.  More important than the loss of those aircraft carriers, were the loss of all those skilled pilots.  One of the air battles of the Battle of Leyte Gulf, was dubbed the Marianas Turkey Shoot, referring to how easy it is to shoot a dumb turkey.  From June 4th, 1942 to August, 1945, they were on the defensive...and practically on the verge of national extinction.

Turkey shoot? The US lost over 200 planes within this battle. So many errors in the abover gibberish its embarressing and the Americans could have sufferted badly within this battle due to a number of errors especially by Admiral Halsey and for the fact the Japanese lacked the main battle control systems of their main guns. As the US warships had. In essence the gunnery of the Japanese was appalling, even though at times they could have sunk more US ships, espcially after Halsey's blunder.

I simple wish you would talk about history factually and not based on some gun hoo American bullshit