Paris attack: Knifeman kills his mother and sister in stabbing rampage

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:38 pm

While shouting 'Allah Anbar...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/paris-attack-one-dead-two-hurt-man-armed-several-knives-stabs/

But not being treated as terrorism...

by Original Quill Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:10 pm

Doesn't seem to have had a terrorist purpose. The perp seems to have had a lot of personal problems.

by magica Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:15 pm

Why? Just why?

by Original Quill Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:46 pm

The article gives a couple of clues:

The Telegraph wrote:Salhi was divorced and living with his mother, said Adama Traore, another of his acquaintances in Trappes.

An emergency phone call made to police at the start of the incident also suggested that the attack was a domestic dispute, according to Europe 1 radio.

Divorced? Living with his mother? Seems it was a domestic dispute. Plenty of those going on these days.

by eddie Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:45 pm

How is it terrorism if you kill your mother and sister? scratch

by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:26 pm

Maybe he was planning something and they were going to tell the authorities...?

Why would he be shouting 'ALLAH AKBAH' if it was only a domestic dispute...?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:15 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Maybe he was planning something and they were going to tell the authorities...?

Why would he be shouting 'ALLAH AKBAH' if it was only a domestic dispute...?

Or, maybe his ex kicked his dog and the dog is named Allah. Where is the evidence of any of that?

It's my understanding that 'Allah Akbar' is akin to 'Praise Jesus', which I've said before. And I was never a terrorist.

by 'Wolfie Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:53 am

"Allah akbah !" loosely translates as "God is great !"

Except in Tommy's fetid imagination, where he seems to belive it means "death to all you infidels, western pig dogs, and puppets of the US Satan imperial forces.."

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

"Allah akbah !" loosely translates as "God is great !"

I've used the term Great Balls of Fire.

by veya_victaous Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:53 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Maybe he was planning something and they were going to tell the authorities...?

Why would he be shouting 'ALLAH AKBAH' if it was only a domestic dispute...?

it literally the Equivalent of saying "Jesus Christ."
common usage is the same a terms like "Bless You", "Thank God" or "Oh my God"

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:55 pm

I know what it means... and question still stands...!

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:32 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I know what it means... and question still stands...!

Until there's some evidence to suggest it, nothing stands. Seems to be a domestic squabble.

My inclination is to guess (as long as guessing is in order) that domestic squabbles are more what white nationalists do, than anyone. They're the ones who don't play well with other kids.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:40 pm

The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:43 pm

Maybe you should have read the article...

A man armed with "several knives" killed his mother and sister and seriously injured another woman in a town near Paris on Thursday, officials said.

The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

He also stabbed a third victim, a female passerby, who was gravely injured in the attack. France's interior minister Gerard Collomb told reporters the attacker had "serious psychiatric problems", and said the attack was not being treated as terrorism.

So it wasn't just his mother and sister who he attacked... and he was on the terror watch list...!

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:51 pm

gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

The bog standard reason has been appllied for this attack

France24 wrote:A man with severe psychiatric problems killed his mother and sister and seriously injured another woman in a knife attack Thursday morning in a suburb of Paris, according to French officials.
The 36-year-old man, who has not been officially identified, fatally stabbed his relatives in broad daylight on a street in Trappes, a suburb southwest of Paris. He then took refuge in a house and was later shot dead by police when he left the house and ran towards the police in a threatening way, according to French Interior Minister Gérard Collomb.

"It appears the criminal had serious psychiatric problems," Collomb told reporters in Trappes.

"He was known (to the police) for advocating terrorism but it seems he was a disturbed person rather than someone who could respond to calls for action from terrorist organisations like Daesh," he said, using the Arabic acronym for the Islamic State (IS) group.

Prosecutors are not treating the attack as a terrorism case, Collombadded, but were following it closely.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link

I then read this:

psychologytoday wrote:The amassed research indicates that higher levels of religious belief and practice (known in social science as "religiosity") is associated with better mental health. In particular, the research suggests that higher levels of religiosity are associated with lower rates of depression, anxiety, substance use disorder, and suicidal behavior. Religiosity is also associated with better physical health and subjective well-being.

Likewise, research indicates that religiosity can enhance recovery from mental illness, aiding in the healing process. For example, one classic research study shows that recovery from severe mental illnesses such as schizophrenia is better in countries with higher levels of religiosity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/talking-about-men/201712/religion-and-mental-health-what-is-the-link

Considering we hear so any attacks blamed on Mental Health with extremist Muslims and based on the aboe. I wonder if anyone has studied whether Islamic doctrines are a factor in the formation and worsening of mental health conditions? I mean surely this must be the case. When this has happened with multiple attacks?

The alternative would have to be mental health being used as a cover to downplay Islamic extremism

What do you think Gelico?

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:57 pm

gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

What you are doing is pointing out how rumors get started. Of course, a terrorist group is going to get any publicity it can...that's the point. But it's not the word of any insider, who would know what the actual motive was.

As far as Police lists go, you've got to realize that cops are inevitably one side of the ensuing litigation. That's why the indictment will say The State vs. [whomever]. If one knows it is going to be involved in a dispute with someone, why not put that person on a list foreordaining his guilt? Handy, eh? Then, you're in the position of saying, see...told ya so! But what about the other people on that list who do nothing? It's a form of declaring guilt before-the-fact. It has nothing to do with reality.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

What you are doing is pointing out how rumors get started. Of course, a terrorist group is going to get any publicity it can...that's the point. But it's not the word of any insider, who would know what the actual motive was.

As far as Police lists go, you've got to realize that cops are inevitably one side of the ensuing litigation. That's why the indictment will say The State vs. [whomever]. If one knows it is going to be involved in a dispute with someone, why not put that person on a list foreordaining his guilt? Handy, eh? Then, you're in the position of saying, see...told ya so! But what about the other people on that list who do nothing? It's a form of declaring guilt before-the-fact. It has nothing to do with reality.

Its not a rumour, that he was on the terror watch list

Like I said, studies show religion helps people with mental health issues. Though clearly the opposite happens with Islam

by Original Quill Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:18 pm

Didge wrote:Its not a rumour, that he was on the terror watch list

Which is nothing but a rumor mill.

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:26 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Didge wrote:Its not a rumour, that he was on the terror watch list

Which is nothing but a rumor mill.

Its not a rumour. Unless you think the annoucement by the French Police is a lie?

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

What you are doing is pointing out how rumors get started. Of course, a terrorist group is going to get any publicity it can...that's the point. But it's not the word of any insider, who would know what the actual motive was.

As far as Police lists go, you've got to realize that cops are inevitably one side of the ensuing litigation. That's why the indictment will say The State vs. [whomever]. If one knows it is going to be involved in a dispute with someone, why not put that person on a list foreordaining his guilt? Handy, eh? Then, you're in the position of saying, see...told ya so! But what about the other people on that list who do nothing? It's a form of declaring guilt before-the-fact. It has nothing to do with reality.

this is ridiculous quill and i'm sure you know that.

it isn't a rumour that he is on the terror watch list.

how many sikhs do you think are on that list?

what about the little old lady who works in the post office? is she on some kind of terror watch list do you think?

they are on a terror watch list for good reason

you make yourself sound like a total dolt

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:42 pm

Didge wrote:
gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

Considering we hear so any attacks blamed on Mental Health with extremist Muslims and based on the aboe. I wonder if anyone has studied whether Islamic doctrines are a factor in the formation and worsening of mental health conditions? I mean surely this must be the case. When this has happened with multiple attacks?

The alternative would have to be mental health being used as a cover to downplay Islamic extremism

What do you think Gelico?

i think along the same lines as you

by Guest Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:15 pm

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:

Considering we hear so any attacks blamed on Mental Health with extremist Muslims and based on the aboe. I wonder if anyone has studied whether Islamic doctrines are a factor in the formation and worsening of mental health conditions? I mean surely this must be the case. When this has happened with multiple attacks?

The alternative would have to be mental health being used as a cover to downplay Islamic extremism

What do you think Gelico?

i think along the same lines as you

Great minds think alike

by 'Wolfie Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:24 am

Pretty useless "terrorist", all the same...

Didn't get any further then "terrorising" his immediate family, and one innocent passer-by..

And just shows how desperate ISIS is getting, claiming a domestic dispute as yet another successful martyr.

by Original Quill Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:40 pm

gelico wrote:this is ridiculous quill and i'm sure you know that.

it isn't a rumour that he is on the terror watch list.

how many sikhs do you think are on that list?

Who put him on the watch list? The cops? It's an adversarial society, and the cops are just one side of the hate. I'd like to consult someone more objective before I accept that as evidence.

It's hard to have someone with a hierarchical mindset understand equality...they only believe in one-dimensional authority: my or the highway! But, unfortunately western society has settled on an adversarial view of conflict resolution--which is what criminal justice is. Note: a trial is a contest, not an execution.

Pre-branding an individual as a terrorist does nothing except show the cops are biased. Often an authoritarian person doesn't want to acknowledge that, but that's the way the game is played.

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:01 am

So, you believe the cops when it suits you, but if it doesn’t, you don’t?

by Ben Reilly Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:11 am

gelico wrote:
Didge wrote:
gelico wrote:The man, who police said had been on a terror watch list since 2016, was later shot and killed after confronting police in Trappes.

Le Parisien reported that the attacker was known to police for having publicly praised terrorism but the paper cautioned that police were not immediately treating the incident as terror-related.

Isil claimed responsibility for the attack, despite it appearing to be a domestic incident, saying one of its members had carried out the assault.

The terror group provided no evidence, but an online statement from the group's Amaq news agency said the attacker was an "Islamic State fighter".

Considering we hear so any attacks blamed on Mental Health with extremist Muslims and based on the aboe. I wonder if anyone has studied whether Islamic doctrines are a factor in the formation and worsening of mental health conditions? I mean surely this must be the case. When this has happened with multiple attacks?

The alternative would have to be mental health being used as a cover to downplay Islamic extremism

What do you think Gelico?

i think along the same lines as you

Or maybe being a young, white American male should be studied as a possible cause of mental issues:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/mvxv9y/why-are-so-many-mass-shootings-committed-by-young-white-men-623

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:28 am

How many multiple shootings in the US have been done by young black men, over the last 30-40 years...?

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:29 am

Oh goody. Another thread where people have to prove how racist/unracist they are.

Burger.

by nicko Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:02 am

Burger ? ------------Bugger ?

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 2:23 pm

nicko wrote:Burger ? ------------Bugger ?

No just burrrrgerrrrr.

Boring.

“Oooh look how good I must be! I LOVE EVERYONE and I just keep telling everyone how much I love all colours, I mean ALL colours! See how good I am!”

Rolling Eyes

yeah we know. Bore off.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:54 pm

eddie wrote:So, you believe the cops when it suits you, but if it doesn’t, you don’t?

I don't believe cops who lie, cheat, steal, or play politics. When cops do what they are supposed to do, I support them.

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:07 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:So, you believe the cops when it suits you, but if it doesn’t, you don’t?

I don't believe cops who lie, cheat, steal, or play politics. When cops do what they are supposed to do, I support them.

Why do you assume the french cops are doing any of those things?

by Original Quill Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:26 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't believe cops who lie, cheat, steal, or play politics. When cops do what they are supposed to do, I support them.

Why do you assume the french cops are doing any of those things?

My opponents are giving me the evidence. The cops have a list, known as the suspected terrorist list. Ergo: guilty until proven innocent.

It's supposed to be internal, and is only "suspected"...but that's not the way it is being used, is it? It's being considered as evidence of guilt!

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:27 pm

Your opponents at the chess club? The badminton club?

Who? scratch

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:29 pm

eddie wrote:
nicko wrote:Burger ? ------------Bugger ?

No just burrrrgerrrrr.

Boring.

“Oooh look how good I must be! I LOVE EVERYONE and I just keep telling everyone how much I love all colours, I mean ALL colours! See how good I am!”

yeah we know. Bore off.

Oooh I’m gonna say it again so that I may recieve an angry anonmynous red from someone who can’t actually say anything.
How racist. Razz

by Original Quill Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:34 pm

eddie wrote:Your opponents at the chess club? The badminton club?

Who?

In this thread, and everywhere this issue is brought up. Take dear tommy...he is convinced this guy is guilty. Why? What evidence? Because the guy's on a "suspected terrorist list."

That's one step away from some ruler (Nixon, Trump?) starting an "enemies list". You can have a list of enemies, but you can't start using it, or even assuming it to prove culpability.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 26, 2018 4:37 pm

eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:

No just burrrrgerrrrr.

Boring.

“Oooh look how good I must be! I LOVE EVERYONE and I just keep telling everyone how much I love all colours, I mean ALL colours! See how good I am!”

yeah we know. Bore off.

Oooh I’m gonna say it again so that I may recieve an angry anonmynous red from someone who can’t actually say anything.
How racist.

I saw that red and felt the same as you. Jesus Christ, can't people take a little light humor?

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:
eddie wrote:

No just burrrrgerrrrr.

Boring.

“Oooh look how good I must be! I LOVE EVERYONE and I just keep telling everyone how much I love all colours, I mean ALL colours! See how good I am!”

yeah we know. Bore off.

Oooh I’m gonna say it again so that I may recieve an angry anonmynous red from someone who can’t actually say anything.
How racist.

I saw that red and felt the same as you. Jesus Christ, can't people take a little light humor?

Thank you for that. I mean it.

And for the record, I never automatically assume it’s a terrorist when I arrive on a thread like this.

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:15 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:So, you believe the cops when it suits you, but if it doesn’t, you don’t?

I don't believe cops who lie, cheat, steal, or play politics. When cops do what they are supposed to do, I support them.

I agree quill...

Maybe you should take a look at my "Interesting reading" thread... where you can find evidence of UK police lying, cheating and playing politics... all in pursuit of adherence to the left wing agenda that has been forced upon them since the last labour govt started putting it on them...!!!

You are against all that too, I presume...?

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:20 pm

Original Quill wrote:
eddie wrote:Your opponents at the chess club? The badminton club?

Who?

In this thread, and everywhere this issue is brought up. Take dear tommy...he is convinced this guy is guilty. Why? What evidence? Because the guy's on a "suspected terrorist list."

That's one step away from some ruler (Nixon, Trump?) starting an "enemies list". You can have a list of enemies, but you can't start using it, or even assuming it to prove culpability.

He is definitely guilty of the knife attack murdering his mother & sister and injuring another... of that there is no doubt...!!!

by Original Quill Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

In this thread, and everywhere this issue is brought up. Take dear tommy...he is convinced this guy is guilty. Why? What evidence? Because the guy's on a "suspected terrorist list."

That's one step away from some ruler (Nixon, Trump?) starting an "enemies list". You can have a list of enemies, but you can't start using it, or even assuming it to prove culpability.

He is definitely guilty of the knife attack murdering his mother & sister and injuring another... of that there is no doubt...!!!

Yes, I stand corrected, tommy. He is guilty. The question is, what was his motive?

That said, it's the same issue. People love to take profile evidence, and claim it's evidence of a legal conclusion. There's no proof at all, if it's simply made up by one side.

In America, those profile-lists are useless. The first thing the cops put on them is, he's black! If he's black, he's guilty. I imagine the Nazis made up profile-lists the same way: If he's Jewish, he's guilty!

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

He is definitely guilty of the knife attack murdering his mother & sister and injuring another... of that there is no doubt...!!!

Yes, I stand corrected, tommy. He is guilty. The question is, what was his motive?

That said, it's the same issue. People love to take profile evidence, and claim it's evidence of a legal conclusion. There's no proof at all, if it's simply made up by one side.

In America, those profile-lists are useless. The first thing the cops put on them is, he's black! If he's black, he's guilty. I imagine the Nazis made up profile-lists the same way: If he's Jewish, he's guilty!

Terrorist watch lists are not 'profile lists'... for someone to get on a terrorist watch list, there must be some serious intelligence about them being involved in some highly worrying activities or they have extremely close links with others who are known/suspected of terrorist related activities...!

I'm sure there are plenty more the police would like to have on the list who fit the criteria above... but as each one takes a lot of time & money to adequately monitor, and the police simply don't have the resources to monitor all, so it is only the highest risk ones who are on the terrorist watch list in France... as I would say is the same here in UK...!

by eddie Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:19 pm

Tommy has a point there, Quill.

by Original Quill Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:16 am

Tommy Monk wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Yes, I stand corrected, tommy. He is guilty. The question is, what was his motive?

That said, it's the same issue. People love to take profile evidence, and claim it's evidence of a legal conclusion. There's no proof at all, if it's simply made up by one side.

In America, those profile-lists are useless. The first thing the cops put on them is, he's black! If he's black, he's guilty. I imagine the Nazis made up profile-lists the same way: If he's Jewish, he's guilty!

Terrorist watch lists are not 'profile lists'... for someone to get on a terrorist watch list, there must be some serious intelligence about them being involved in some highly worrying activities or they have extremely close links with others who are known/suspected of terrorist related activities...!

I'm sure there are plenty more the police would like to have on the list who fit the criteria above... but as each one takes a lot of time & money to adequately monitor, and the police simply don't have the resources to monitor all, so it is only the highest risk ones who are on the terrorist watch list in France... as I would say is the same here in UK...!

Think of all the unproven categories you have put into your post: serious intelligence, being involved, worrying activities, close links, others who are known/suspected...how many untrustworthy categories is that? And they are all heaped on, on top of one another.

In the US we have a concentration camp, maintained outside of the country... Guantanamo Bay. Know why it's outside our borders? Because if it involved the US Constitution, the charges would be laughed out of court.

Those are people who are on these profile lists. The charges don't even meet the standards we give to our citizens. You think those lists are reliable? I think they exist to avoid standards of decency.

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:17 pm

A terrorist watch list here or in France is just monitoring those I described above...

And all will be because of involvement in such...

by Original Quill Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:A terrorist watch list here or in France is just monitoring those I described above...

Then treat it as "just" a monitoring device. I have no problem with someone keeping an 'enemies list', until s/he begins to act upon it. You were using it to declare an act as terrorist, and that is out of bounds.

Tommy Monk wrote:And all will be because of involvement in such.

..

That, you don't know. Plus, you don't know the soundness of the evidence. You don't know of any contrary evidence. You don't know of any mitigating evidence. All you know is the list exists. A list that is unilateral, is just one person's opinion.

In a democracy, we don't work that way.

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:12 pm

People don't get on a terrorist watch list for nothing...

by Original Quill Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:16 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:People don't get on a terrorist watch list for nothing...

Vague tommy, very vague. Sounds almost metaphysical: God isn't great for nothing. Houdini wasn't an escape artist for nothing.

When you have more detail get back to us.

by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:50 pm

Well... I'm sure police are not going to waste precious & limited resources monitoring people who have not done anything to warrant being monitored...!

by Original Quill Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:02 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Well... I'm sure police are not going to waste precious & limited resources monitoring people who have not done anything to warrant being monitored...!

Police have a lot of resources to waste. More than the department of sanitation. Wink

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