Should Boris be booted?

First topic message reminder :

Boris Johnson is being asked to at least apologise, at worst resign or be sacked over the piece he wrote in Mondays Daily Telegraph.
He likened Burka wearing women to resembling bank robbers and letter boxes.

Should May get rid of bungling Boris, or will this just enhance his popularity with his following?



https://news.sky.com/story/tory-peer-remove-whip-from-boris-over-burka-remarks-11464276

You can be conditioned into thinking just about anyway someone wants if you are generally started on young, the conditioning is continuous and your society is consistant. Just look at how cults operate. It was and still is up to a point how all the religions operate although many people are understanding how established religion/dogma is a control mechanism.

Vintage, I think the name of the Village the Nazi's levelled was Lidice ?

Yes, Nicko I think it was. Thanks.

Lidice was totally destroyed and its people killed but it was in the Czech Republic the one I was thinking of is Oradou sur Glane, near Limoges although I didn't know the name before now but Lidice did sound right, I had mixed them up. There were quite a few in Nazi occupied areas it seems.

Vintage wrote:Lidice was totally destroyed and its people killed but it was in the Czech Republic the one I was thinking of is Oradou sur Glane, near Limoges although I didn't know the name before now but Lidice did sound right, I had mixed them up. There were quite a few in Nazi occupied areas it seems.

2nd Waffen SS Panser division "Das Reich" carried out that attrocity, I believe in France Vintage

Lidice was destroyed after the assassination of Reinhard Heydrich.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/05/asia/gallery/afghan-women-past-present/index.html
https://egyptianstreets.com/2014/04/05/egypts-golden-years-in-23-vintage-photos/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4148684/Stunning-photos-reveal-life-Iran-revolution.html
The above may be of interest, as long as they work!

Dishonest Didge wrote:Why on earth would Jews hold a grudge against Italians?

Italians, along with the Empire of Japan, were allies of Nazi Germany.  But it goes back much further, to the power of the Church during the Holy Roman Empire.  

Pope Innocent III threatened with excommunication those who placed or maintained Jews in public positions, and he insisted that every Jew holding office should be dismissed.

Particularly egregious--foreshadowing Nazi practices--was the  order that every Jew must always wear, conspicuously displayed, a special yellow badge. In 1235 Pope Gregory IX published the first bull against the ritual murder accusation.

In more recent history Jews were persecuted in Sicily. At the same time, many Jews from Venice and the surrounding area forcibly migrated to Poland and Lithuania to escape persecution.

Jumping ahead to 20th-century, A significant strain of Italian Fascism, influenced by Nazism, actively and strongly promoted anti-Semitism. Jews were depicted both as rootless cosmopolitan, capitalist bourgeois, and at the same time, as communists.  The 1938 Racial laws were promulgated by Fascist Italy to enforce direct discrimination against mainly Italian Jews as well as immigrants from Ethiopia.

Even today it continues:

Jerusalem Post wrote:‘44% OF ITALIANS HAVE NEGATIVE VIEWS OF JEWS’

Study finds varying degrees of hostility toward Jews, ranging from traditional stereotypes to "pure anti-Semites."

BY BENJAMIN WEINTHAL, JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT  OCTOBER 25, 2011

I only include the headlines, but if you wish to view the whole article:

https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/44-percent-of-Italians-have-negative-views-of-Jews

Toddler Tantrum Quill wrote:

Honest Didge wrote:Why on earth would Jews hold a grudge against Italians?

Italians, along with the Empire of Japan, were allies of Nazi Germany.  But it goes back much further, to the power of the Church during the Holy Roman Empire.  

Pope Innocent III threatened with excommunication those who placed or maintained Jews in public positions, and he insisted that every Jew holding office should be dismissed.

Particularly egregious--foreshadowing Nazi practices--was the  order that every Jew must always wear, conspicuously displayed, a special yellow badge. In 1235 Pope Gregory IX published the first bull against the ritual murder accusation.

In more recent history Jews were persecuted in Sicily. At the same time, many Jews from Venice and the surrounding area forcibly migrated to Poland and Lithuania to escape persecution.

Jumping ahead to 20th-century, A significant strain of Italian Fascism, influenced by Nazism, actively and strongly promoted anti-Semitism. Jews were depicted both as rootless cosmopolitan, capitalist bourgeois, and at the same time, as communists.  The 1938 Racial laws were promulgated by Fascist Italy to enforce direct discrimination against mainly Italian Jews as well as immigrants from Ethiopia.

Even today it continues:

Jerusalem Post wrote:‘44% OF ITALIANS HAVE NEGATIVE VIEWS OF JEWS’

Study finds varying degrees of hostility toward Jews, ranging from traditional stereotypes to "pure anti-Semites."

BY BENJAMIN WEINTHAL, JERUSALEM POST CORRESPONDENT  OCTOBER 25, 2011

I only include the headlines, but if you wish to view the whole article:

https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/44-percent-of-Italians-have-negative-views-of-Jews

That still does not answer my question and show you do not even know Jews

Its your perception here and not the view of actual Jews

I asked why they would hate Italians and you offer up your view and not the view of Jews

So based on past wrong,s you think Jews should carry a grudge to people today, who committed no wrong

How racist are you?

Seriously?

Nobody with a rational mindset would racially hold a people responsible for no crimes they have committed themselves

The Catholic Church is a different entity and were complicit in the Holocaust, but it may have escaped your attention. That the Roman Catholic Church is multicultured with many different ethnic clergy

That has to be one of the most idiotic posts that you have ever come out and it shows that in reality. It is you with the racist mindset

This is why you continually live in the past and never learn from wrongs done in the past. You want to make people perpetually guilty, based off what some of their ancestors did.

Dishonest didge wrote:That still does not answer my question and show you do not even know Jews

Some of your best friends are Jews, eh dd?  The fact that you have to refer to them in the third-party shows you've already separated them from your "kind".

We get that a lot with blacks in the south.  "Why, sum ov my best frens are niggas."  We call it the 'we/they' syndrome.  You insult them by putting them off, aside for your own kind.  They call it subliminal segregation.

Dishonest didge wrote:So based on past wrong,s you think Jews should carry a grudge to people today, who committed no wrong

You lose the point, dd.  It's not about carrying a grudge.  We were talking about paying back.

Europe owes the Jews, no doubt about it.  But you don't pay them back by creating another wrong off yonder somewhere.  You don't give them Palestine's property.

You make those who did the wrong pay the price.  I believe a proper recompense for the way Jews were treated during WWII, is not to give them parts of Palestine, but to give them Italy.  It's on the Med, fairly nice weather, and it's a legitimate equivalency, given Italy's part in the Axis sins.

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonest didge wrote:That still does not answer my question and show you do not even know Jews

Some of your best friends are Jews, eh dd?  The fact that you have to refer to them in the third-party shows you've already separated them from your "kind".

We get that a lot with blacks in the south.  "Why, sum ov my best frens are niggas."  We call it the 'we/they' syndrome.  You insult them by putting them off, aside for your own kind.  They call it subliminal segregation.

Cathy Newman alert

Where did i claim aome of my best friends are Jews?

Never did

I mean its so boring how again you fail to understand here that at least i know the views of some Jews and you know zero views

You presented the views of Italians, not jews and claimed they must have a grudge. Not based offfffffffffff any view they hold, but some PC bullshit racist claptrap yopu hold

I get that the blacks in the south, would have nothing to do with you, mainly as you are racist Quill.

They would look at you as nothing more than an engineer of racism. As you divide people by skin colour

Dishonest didge wrote:Nobody with a rational mindset would racially hold a people responsible for no crimes they have committed themselves

Italy is not a race.  It is a country.  Moreover, it is one of the three countries that created the racial sins of WWII.

A country is associated with its land, and Italy has prime land that is appropriate for a separate country for Jews, in compensation for the sins of Europe against the Jews.

Now, do you see the mess you have created by making more victims.  You Europeans realized the deep sins you created during the 1922-1945 era.  But you only created more sins by simply stealing another people's land.

WTF were you thinking?  Did you not learn your lesson?  You were going to compensate one victim, by victimizing another victim...all while letting the REAL culprits go completely free.

Now you've got the entire Muslim world--1.6-billion people--as your arch enemies.  Trump couldn't couldn't have fooked up better.

All I'm telling you is, if you'd had the guts to do it right, you would have given the land mass of Italy to the Jews, and make the Germans pay for it all.  Imagine...all the little Fiats driving around with yamakas painted on top.

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonest didge wrote:Nobody with a rational mindset would racially hold a people responsible for no crimes they have committed themselves

Italy is not a race.  It is a country.  Moreover, it is one of the three countries that created the racial sins of WWII.

A country is associated with its land, and Italy has prime land that is appropriate for a separate country for Jews, in compensation for the sins of Europe against the Jews.

Now, do you see the mess you have created by making more victims.  You Europeans realized the deep sins you created during the 1922-1945 era.  But you only created more sins by simply stealing another people's land.

WTF were you thinking?  Did you not learn your lesson?  You were going to compensate one victim, by victimizing another victim...all while letting the REAL culprits go completely free.

Now you've got the entire Muslim world--1.6-billion people--as your arch enemies.  Trump couldn't couldn't have fooked up better.

All I'm telling you is, if you'd had the guts to do it right, you would have given the land mass of Italy to the Jews, and make the Germans pay for it all.  Imagine...all the little Fiats driving around with yamakas painted on top.

Italian is an ethinic group and their ancestors spoke Latin

It was not one of the contries that caused the Holocaust

That is emphatically a lie and as seen you place this on Italians

You dont have  a clue on this?

I see the mess by you creating oppressors

Are you claiminbg they are now oppressors here, baseed on the Italians changing sides?

The only lesson I learnt herre is one simple rule Quill

You have no legal or moral understanding of the Holocasut

You use this as a weapon

You should be shamed of yourself, a twat that has lived in liberty, has no comprehension what its like to be discrimionated against

Go figur

Dishonest didge wrote:Italian is an ethinic group and their ancestors spoke Latin

Italy is a nation. I specifically disavowed the Romans, and I doubt that ethnicity even comes into it. Italy is a part of Europe, FFS, and Italians are Europeans.

So we are talking about the wrongdoing of a specific nation, and neither race nor ethnicity enter into it. The specific subject is national responsibility.

Italy, along with Germany, was responsible for the evils of WWII. Italy was one of the "national" wrongdoers and they should be called on to pay for their wrongdoing.

Now, Europe has determined that the compensation to the Jews for the millions of deaths and wrongs, is to give the Jews a nation of their own. Yet, in one of the sleazier moves of modern history, Europe decided to take territory from a people totally innocent, and give their land to the Jews. They re-victimized other people, in order to pay for past victimization. As a result, they are hated by 1.6-billion people and face tensions they should hope never come to fruition--not a small price to pay.

All I'm saying is, it would have been cheaper and more equitable to give the territory of one of the actual wrongdoers to the Jews. Europe may well have created one debt they can never repay.

Dishonest Didge wrote:The only lesson I learnt herre is one simple rule Quill

I understand you have learned nothing. Your pointless rant proves that.

However, you are not the only one following this thread, and others with keener minds might see the point I am making.

Europe inspired the hatred of 1.6-million people on this earth, all because they thought they were doing something charitable. But, in actuality it was not an act of charity, it was, or should have been, an act of recompense. And the compensation should have come from the wrongdoers, equity says.

They picked up some dirt they saw lying around, and gave it to the Jews. It shows how little regard Europeans have for 3rd-worlders...awww, piss on 'em, they don't count! Use their land to pay our (Europe's) debts! Pay the victimization forward.

Now look what they've got...9/11, 7/7, and all the explosions and wars that have gone on since. And here's Europe, still shitting on people lesser than them. One day it's all going to come home to roost. Hate begets hate.

No one just gave someone else's land to the Jews, it was historically theirs anyway, they were forcibly removed on a number of occassions from those lands. Palestine came about as an administrative district for Roman rule not a country.

Vintage wrote:No one just gave someone else's land to the Jews, it was historically theirs anyway, they were forcibly removed on a number of occassions from those lands. Palestine came about as an administrative district for Roman rule not a country.

I think there are modern land records that belie that.  

That's the common argument.  But, someone took someone's property, because one time there was no state of Israel, and all of a sudden, presto, there was a state of Israel.

I think we know that anthropologically, and historically there were migrations, and people occupied, and vacated many, many lands.  But once the British took responsibility for drawing the boundaries of modern middle eastern states in the 19th-century, a grid settled in that became the norm.  Nations and populations became self-aware and felt their possessions were settled.

That premise was what disturbed us modernly, about Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia, Poland and finally, Russia.  And even prior, the Italian invasion of Ethiopia.  It led to the formation of the UN.  Of course the Israel question came up before the UN, but the UN became the force trying to rectify things.

It should have disturbed Europe about the creation of Israel, but Europe was too busy trying to assuage their own guilt over Italy's and Germany's treatment of the Jews.  It was two wrongs, trying to make a right.  And, of course, it never does.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

So Israel and Judah never existed seperately or together? At least there's documented proof of where and when they existed so how could it be created. When aboriginies are acknowledged to own tribal lands are those lands a created entity or being returned to the rightful historic owners.

There was no official state/country of Israel before it's creation back in 1948... but the same can be said for a large number of other states/countries that technically didn't exist before their official 'creation'...


But it's impossible to argue against the fact that most of the area (now known as Israel) was the homeland of the Jewish people, and that they were driven out as it was taken from them by hostile invaders...



https://www.timesofisrael.com/centuries-before-trying-to-deny-it-Muslims-carved-jewish-link-to-jerusalem-into-mosque/

Vintage wrote:So Israel and Judah never existed seperately or together?  At least there's documented proof of where and when they existed so how could it be created. When aboriginies are acknowledged to own tribal lands are those lands a created entity or being

returned to the rightful historic owners.

They did exist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele

The Jews had their genesis in Judea and the Arabs are nothing more than colonialists

Their genesis was in the Arabian penisular

Sadly properganda has made out the Palestinians to somehow be the victms here when they started this conflict in the first place

Its like claiming German attacking Poland, was the victim

Original Quill wrote:

Vintage wrote:No one just gave someone else's land to the Jews, it was historically theirs anyway, they were forcibly removed on a number of occassions from those lands. Palestine came about as an administrative district for Roman rule not a country.

I think there are modern land records that belie that.  

That's the common argument.  But, someone took someone's property, because one time there was no state of Israel, and all of a sudden, presto, there was a state of Israel.

I think we know that anthropologically, and historically there were migrations, and people occupied, and vacated many, many lands.  But once the British took responsibility for drawing the boundaries of modern middle eastern states in the 19th-century, a grid settled in that became the norm.  Nations and populations became self-aware and felt their possessions were settled.

That premise was what disturbed us modernly, about Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia, Poland and finally, Russia.  And even prior, the Italian invasion of Ethiopia.  It led to the formation of the UN.  Of course the Israel question came up before the UN, but the UN became the force trying to rectify things.

It should have disturbed Europe about the creation of Israel, but Europe was too busy trying to assuage their own guilt over Italy's and Germany's treatment of the Jews.  It was two wrongs, trying to make a right.  And, of course, it never does.

Assumption is the mother of all fuck-ups.

Bullshit alert

Lets have some historical facts

The UN never created Israel

Israel declared independece

The mandate for Palestine was promised to the Jews

78% was given to the Arabs in the form of Jordan and then the Arabs were still greedy and wanted more, even though they had other mandates that were there in order to create other Arab states. Mandates were set up by the league of nations, in ater the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and nobody questions the creation of new states, like Syria, Iraq Lebannon etc. All form from other Mandates. What we have here and has always been the issue is a people rejecting the right and self determination of the Jews. The left would argue and back the right of any other people, but in this instance, they take the side of the Colonialists, the Arabs

Also the Arabs were wrong doers as you say in WW2, and why you clear have no idea what you are talking about. If Rommel had of won in North Africa, the plan with the Mufti of Jerusalem an d Hitler, was to wipe out and kill all the Jews in the  Middle east

in 1937 the British proposed a two state solution, which the Arabs rejected



Its always been the Palestinian Arabs that have hindered any peace, as they have always rejected a Jewish state. In the land of the genesis of the Jews and people continually buy to a victimhood mentality. The Arabs rejected the Un partition plan and the very next day, stated a civil war in the Mandate for Palestine. So the view that Euopean nations created Israel is a complete myth. Or the view they did os because of the Holocaust is utterly nonesense on every level. 

So you are simple talking bullshit

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonest didge wrote:That still does not answer my question and show you do not even know Jews

Some of your best friends are Jews, eh dd?  The fact that you have to refer to them in the third-party shows you've already separated them from your "kind".

We get that a lot with blacks in the south.  "Why, sum ov my best frens are niggas."  We call it the 'we/they' syndrome.  You insult them by putting them off, aside for your own kind.  They call it subliminal segregation.

Well clearly you do not know any Jews, as at what point diud you present views of Jews?

You never did, you presented your views, hence the ignorance of your claim

I am sure most black people would give you a wide birth, mainly as you are not someone that would bring them equality

You want to perpetually make them victims

To then claim I have sperated Jews, once again shows how desperate you are to cover upf for your ignorance and stupidity here.

Its hilarious, that again, you are still unable to answer my question

Maybe at some point you may answer

As far as i am concerned the worst antisemitism in the world today, does not come from the Far Right, it comes from Muslims and the left

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonest didge wrote:Nobody with a rational mindset would racially hold a people responsible for no crimes they have committed themselves

Italy is not a race.  It is a country.  Moreover, it is one of the three countries that created the racial sins of WWII.

A country is associated with its land, and Italy has prime land that is appropriate for a separate country for Jews, in compensation for the sins of Europe against the Jews.

Now, do you see the mess you have created by making more victims.  You Europeans realized the deep sins you created during the 1922-1945 era.  But you only created more sins by simply stealing another people's land.

WTF were you thinking?  Did you not learn your lesson?  You were going to compensate one victim, by victimizing another victim...all while letting the REAL culprits go completely free.

Now you've got the entire Muslim world--1.6-billion people--as your arch enemies.  Trump couldn't couldn't have fooked up better.

All I'm telling you is, if you'd had the guts to do it right, you would have given the land mass of Italy to the Jews, and make the Germans pay for it all.  Imagine...all the little Fiats driving around with yamakas painted on top.

Wrong, Italians are classified as a race

Anyway, you are still neglecting what the Jews would want here and again you think you know what is now best for them and the Italians

As seen, Jews have taken back the land of their ancestors and even allowed the Arab squatters to become part of their nation

So Europeans added to the mess, when they pandered to Arab hissy fits. Even worse the 1939 White paper, denied many Jews being able to flee to Palestine. Thus ensuring hundreds of thousands more died in the Holocasut. All to pander to Arab hate of the Jews

So the Arabs are in no way victims here. Like Nazi German, they rejected the self determination of a people and both started a conflict

Hence your reason would place Nazi Germany as a victim for invading Poland and then later losing the war

So again, nobody gave any lands to the Jews, they lived there, others bought land legally and their decalred indepence.

Jews were not looking to settle in Ital, so your view, would mean ethnically cleansing Jews from the Middle East and within Europe

You really never think anything through do you and even worse, now jack shit about history it seem

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonest Didge wrote:The only lesson I learnt herre is one simple rule Quill

I understand you have learned nothing.  Your pointless rant proves that.

However, you are not the only one following this thread, and others with keener minds might see the point I am making.

Europe inspired the hatred of 1.6-million people on this earth, all because they thought they were doing something charitable.  But, in actuality it was not an act of charity, it was, or should have been, an act of recompense.  And the compensation should have come from the wrongdoers, equity says.

They picked up some dirt they saw lying around, and gave it to the Jews.  It shows how little regard Europeans have for 3rd-worlders...awww, piss on 'em, they don't count!  Use their land to pay our (Europe's) debts!  Pay the victimization forward.

Now look what they've got...9/11, 7/7, and all the explosions and wars that have gone on since.  And here's Europe, still shitting on people lesser than them.  One day it's all going to come home to roost.  Hate begets hate.

There is so much bullshit here and it proves what is evidently wrong with further education in the US. Its run by brainless lefties that continually lie about history

Again nobody created Israel. They declared indepence, when the British decided to pull out of what was then the Mandate for palestine

Europe inspire the hate of 1.6 million Muslims?  

WTF

So what you are saying, is that if people do not like Jews having self determination, we should back the views of people of hate?

Did they say the same, when in fact Mandates were created in order that Arab states were created.

So what you are proving is that something is inherantly wrong with Islam then. Even worse you hold a view that somehow Muslims are inferior to you and that they are 3rd worlders. 

Thanks

I suggest you look back in history and see that in reality, it was Muslims that started invasions themselves and why Islam, has been basically at war with the world, since its creation

Dishonorable Didge wrote:Wrong, Italians are classified as a race

In this case they represented themselves as a nation, so they must pay as a nation.

Dishonorable Didge wrote:Europe inspire the hate of 1.6 million Muslims?

WTF

It's already started. Where have you been?

Yes, I know it already stated, with the Islamic invasions and conflicts, which have gone on unabated since the birth off Islam

Back to Boris.
Can he have played a blinder here like some of the press are hinting at?
He refuses to apologise, in fact it seems everyone else is discussing his remarks but him.
Theresa May asked for an apology from him, she has been ignored, the ball is now in her court. If she lets it go she will appear weak. Boris's supporters are calling for her to stand down, Boris will stand for PM.....on the tide of his seemingly increased popularity since he made his comments about Muslim women, he may stand a chance.
Boris as PM and Trump as POTUS......what a double act.

Syl wrote:Back to Boris.
Can he have played a blinder here like some of the press are hinting at?
He refuses to apologise, in fact it seems everyone else is discussing his remarks but him.
Theresa May asked for an apology from him, she has been ignored, the ball is now in her court. If she lets it go she will appear weak. Boris's supporters are calling for her to stand down, Boris will stand for PM.....on the tide of his seemingly increased popularity since he made his comments about Muslim women, he may stand a chance.
Boris as PM and Trump as POTUS......what a double act.

Why should he apologise here?

Seriously?

many people back him for what he rightly said

Thersa May is an idiot and playing to this for votes and not reality here

Its like i said, how can anyone support the view of Salafism here?

It stands against every form of Liberal values, and this is what this garment represents

Its like I said, when people wear the KKK outfit, none of you would make the same arguments. You would condemn, but here, because some brainwashed women wear, you stupidly make it a woman rights issue. Ignoring the blatant fact, countless women are forced to wear by this symbol of misogyny

I mean this bullshit about how some feel enlightened by masking themselves from society, has nothing to do with enlightenment. When people try to cover up how they are in society, its based on a belief system and not any personal view point. They have been indoctrinated to believe harm will come to them, if they do not cover themselves up

Its barbaric for any free thinking Liberal to support the view to wear the Burka, as its a symbol of oppresssion. As those same people have never actually look at the reason and cause to why view and belief is made for them to cover up. That somehow to them, women are the cause of sexual violence. Its appalling how anyone can even lay claim to defend such a view

Its like I have said before

If Allah existed, he must be some sick fuck
To lie to women and say they will not be raped and sexually abused if they cover their entire bodies. Is emphatically a lie. Just ask many Egyptian women who do where this and are raped. Or the countless Salafist women forced to have sex with their husbands against their will. Its making an apologist argument for men to rape women. Which is disgusting

I mean those claiming this isn the free will of such Muslim women, are emphatically lying

They have no free will, they are bound by a belief and thus those supporting this are bound also by such a belief

They need to stop defending a barbaric belief

We had this debate pages ago....you promised to put me on ignore in this thread.

Syl wrote:We had this debate pages ago....you promised to put me on ignore in this thread.  

Maybe I did and this is my point, I am going to continue to reason, why your view here continuse to sadly support misogyny.

Without ever understanding you are

Let me put it to you this way Syl

If someone held a belief, that women raped were adulterers and that they should be punished for this, what would your view be?

We dont live in a country that supports those views so the question is mute.
Women who wear the burka in this country  say they do it from choice, and I believe women should have that right.
To dictate to those women what NOT to wear is as bad as if they were being dictated what they HAD to wear......whilst the burka is legal in this country I will stand by that opinion.

Off out...laters.

Syl wrote:We dont live in a country that supports those views so the question is mute.
Women who wear the burka in this country  say they do it from choice, and I believe women should have that right.
To dictate to those women what NOT to wear is as bad as if they were being dictated what they HAD to wear......whilst the burka is legal in this country I will stand by that opinion.

Off out...laters.

But the women that wear the burka do and this is what you do not understand

Those women again, are not doing this from an active view to choose.

They believe it is cumpulsary to do so and that if they do not, they will be punished in an after life

So spare me the babble on choice

Its a choice on beliefs, not a choice on what to wear.

Its like saying a Preist has a choice on whether to wear a cassok or not. He does not, because its their uniform

So dont tell me its a choice when its not

Those radical Muslims who are brainwashed to believe they should wear. Represent, everything against equality for women.

As they believe women should be subservant to men. That men can beat them. That their husbands can rape them

That is the beliefs they follow and you support this through the view to back the burka

That is what you fail to grasp

Didge wrote:Yes, I know it already stated, with the Islamic invasions and conflicts, which have gone on unabated since the birth off Islam

It started last century, with the takeover of Palestine by Europeans. Then the formation of a Jewish state, with European backing.

Now, Muslims have begun to fight back. The two sides have squared up, and get ready for the battle of centuries.

It would have been much easier to deprive Italy of its territory, and set it aside as 'Israel'. Italy has never has won a good old face-off war.

note 1:

If Europe was going to compensate the Jews, Italy was a much softer target--more so, that they had already been defeated and were cowering, whipped dogs.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Yes, I know it already stated, with the Islamic invasions and conflicts, which have gone on unabated since the birth off Islam

It started last century, with the takeover of Palestine by Europeans.  Then the formation of a Jewish state, with European backing.

Now, Muslims have begun to fight back.  The two sides have squared up, and get ready for the battle of centuries.

It would have been much easier to deprive Italy of its territory, and set it aside as 'Israel'.  Italy has never has won a good old face-off war.

note 1:

 If Europe was going to compensate the Jews, Italy was a much softer target--more so, that they had already been defeated and were cowering, whipped dogs.

Really?

You think the problem started with Europeans and not Turks?

Or the fact that nobody reffered to themselves as Palestinans under Ottoman rule? 

I will tell you when it started.

It started with the formation of Islam and the Arab conquest and Arabization of the Middle East and North Africa 

It continued, when a belief was held, that any lands conquered by Muslims, would be their lands for all time

So it was the Muslims that started this

It was Muslims that were butchering Jews in the early 20th century, based upon the hate and incitement by the grand Mufti of Jerusalem. Who made a pact with Hitler to wipe out the Jews of the entire Middle East

You see its incredible. Leftist apologists will say colonialism was wrong, but think the very same thing with Arabization is some how right

A complete double standard

It would have been far easier if the Jews had of kicked out all the Arab squatters. They never did, because unlike the Arabs, they have only ever wanted to live in peace. Yet today, no Jews live in Gaza, as they are denied the right as Jews to live there. Go figure

You see the issue has always been around the problem of these Arabs and not the Jews and yet you look to see the Jews as the problem. It figures, being that you are a colonialist yourself and thus back Arab foreign invaders.

The Jews have reclaimed their land back from the squatters

Europe never compensated the Jews and infact many Jews are still waiting for compensation for lands and homes they onced owned in Europe that were stolen during WW2 and never returned to the owners, the surviivors of the Holocaust. Israel was recreated by the returning Jews and the Jews already living there. The problem has always been the racist Muslims, that cannot abide living alongside a people with self determination. That means you back the racist antisemitic agressor here

Syl wrote:Back to Boris.
Can he have played a blinder here like some of the press are hinting at?
He refuses to apologise, in fact it seems everyone else is discussing his remarks but him.
Theresa May asked for an apology from him, she has been ignored, the ball is now in her court. If she lets it go she will appear weak. Boris's supporters are calling for her to stand down, Boris will stand for PM.....on the tide of his seemingly increased popularity since he made his comments about Muslim women, he may stand a chance.
Boris as PM and Trump as POTUS......what a double act.

I'm not a huge fan of BJ...but why should he apologise? I'm sick to death of the Great Outraged and Offended. Funny how nobody kicked up a huge pearl clutching stink when Lee Rigby had his throat cut. Where was the affront to humanity then? No, we have people getting all riled up because Tesco featured a Muslim family in their Christmas commercial but not a peep when Lee almost had his head sawed off.

We have free thought and speech in this country. It's what allows everyone to say their piece and wave their banners. It's what allows every single Muslim woman on this island to have a choice . We allow that. It works both ways, I'm afraid.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:Back to Boris.
Can he have played a blinder here like some of the press are hinting at?
He refuses to apologise, in fact it seems everyone else is discussing his remarks but him.
Theresa May asked for an apology from him, she has been ignored, the ball is now in her court. If she lets it go she will appear weak. Boris's supporters are calling for her to stand down, Boris will stand for PM.....on the tide of his seemingly increased popularity since he made his comments about Muslim women, he may stand a chance.
Boris as PM and Trump as POTUS......what a double act.

I'm not a huge fan of BJ...but why should he apologise?    I'm sick to death of the Great Outraged and Offended.   Funny how nobody kicked up a huge pearl clutching stink when Lee Rigby had his throat cut.  Where was the affront to humanity then?  No, we have people getting all riled up because Tesco featured a Muslim family in their Christmas commercial but not a peep when Lee almost had his head sawed off.

We have free thought and speech in this country.   It's what allows everyone to say their piece and wave their banners.  It's what allows every single Muslim woman on this island to have a choice .   We allow that.  It works both ways, I'm afraid.  

There was rightly tremendous shock and outrage when Lee Rigby was butchered, and I dont see how his case can compare in the slightest with Boris putting his fat foot in it regarding the burka.

Dishonest Didge wrote:You think the problem started with Europeans and not Turks?

Really? How many here think that dd is about to go into his infinite regress, in which all events go back to the big bang? Yes, they do, but that is not very helpful in detailing the details of history.

Nor are we talking about the total history of discrimination toward the Jews, dodgy. I, myself, have traced the history of Italian anit-semitism, making clear that persecution of Jews had gone on for 2,000 years or more.

But, WWII marks the zenith of European atrocities toward the Jewish people. And it is WWII, or events leading up, where we begin to recognize Europe's obligation to repay the Jews for what Europe had done to them.

The only thing I am saying is, Europe made a bad choice snatching the lands of Palestinians, making more victims, in order to compensate European Jews. A much better choice would have been to give them Italy, which had participated in, and been defeated in the European anti-semitic cause.

Tantrum Quill wrote:

 Didge wrote:You think the problem started with Europeans and not Turks?

Really?  How many here think that dd is about to go into his infinite regress, in which all events go back to the big bang?  Yes, they do, but that is not very helpful in detailing the details of history.

Nor are we talking about the total history of discrimination toward the Jews, dodgy.  I, myself, have traced the history of Italian anit-semitism, making clear that persecution of Jews had gone on for 2,000 years or more.

But, WWII marks the zenith of European atrocities toward the Jewish people.  And it is WWII, or events leading up, where we begin to recognize Europe's obligation to repay the Jews for what Europe had done to them.

The only thing I am saying is, Europe made a bad choice snatching the lands of Palestinians, making more victims, in order to compensate European Jews.  A much better choice would have been to give them Italy, which had participated in, and been defeated in the European anti-semitic cause.

Well you clearly have a very distorted and quite appalling revisionist history going on here

You stand to claim Colonialism is wrong, except it seems, when its the Arabs

That is a poor double standard

You keep coming out with this crap that Jews have been paid back for crimes that happened to them

Where in fact many were denied the ability to reach saftey in Britain, the US and the Mandate for Palestine. As Jewish immigration was restricted. Which ensured the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Jews. No European created israel. They themselves declared indepence, in their ancestral homeland

So if they made a bad choice after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, why are you not questioning the creation of nations the Europeans did create?

How about Syria?

Lebanon?

Iraq?

You see this is why antisemitism is deeply ingrained in the mindset of the left. They do not call into question the creation of Arab states, only the only Jewish state.

It shows antisemitism is still rife in the world today and its mainly coming from the left and Muslims

Dishonest Didge wrote:Well you clearly have a very distorted and quite appalling revisionist history going on here

Only in the sense that it refocuses the remedy.

Apart from taking out one European nation, all the rest is far more just and makes better sense than swiping the lands of Palestine and starting a war with 1.6-billion of the world's inhabitants.

Dishonorable Didge wrote:You stand to claim Colonialism is wrong, except it seems, when its the Arabs

That is a poor double standard

The only thing I am saying is, Europe made a bad choice snatching the lands of Palestinians, making more victims, in order to compensate European Jews. A much better choice would have been to give them Italy, which had participated in, and been defeated in the European anti-semitic cause.

tantrum Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Well you clearly have a very distorted and quite appalling revisionist history going on here

Only in the sense that it refocuses the remedy.

Apart from taking out one European nation, all the rest is far more just and makes better sense than swiping the lands of Palestine and starting a war with 1.6-billion of the world's inhabitants.

Which translate as you lying then

The war starting with the conception of islam, as has gone on unabated since Muslims believed they have a duty to convert the world to Islam

baby Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:You stand to claim Colonialism is wrong, except it seems, when its the Arabs

That is a poor double standard

The only thing I am saying is, Europe made a bad choice snatching the lands of Palestinians, making more victims, in order to compensate European Jews.  A much better choice would have been to give them Italy, which had participated in, and been defeated in the European anti-semitic cause.

They never called themselves palestinians but Syrian Arabs

Again the Jews were not compensated

Not sure how times i have to correct that lie by you

The fact I see this, is that uyou are emphatically antisemitic

As you certainly do not call into question the creation of Arab states

Dishonorable Didge wrote:How about Syria?

Lebanon?

Iraq?

I believe they all go back to that bad decision made by Europeans pursuant to the holocaust.

Now they are wars in their own right, but all relate back to the decision to dedicate Palestinian lands for reparation to Jews.

We will have many, many more such wars in the centuries to come...until we extinguish 1.6-billion souls, or they extinguish us.

Original Quill wrote:

Dishonorable Didge wrote:How about Syria?

Lebanon?

Iraq?

I believe they all go back to that bad decision made by Europeans pursuant to the holocaust.

Now they are wars in their own right, but all relate back to the decision to dedicate Palestinian lands for reparation to Jews.

We will have many, many more such wars in the centuries to come...until we extinguish 1.6-billion souls, or they extinguish us.

Their creation had nothing to do with the Holocaust, as they were created before this

The problems in the Middle east stem from the fact, that it is the centre of the worlds 3 Abrahamic religions

Christians, Jews, Druze, Yazidis, Zoroastrians etc, have all been persecuted under islamic rule in the Middle east for centuries

That has got nothing to do with Europeans. It has everything to do with Islamic beliefs

The lands that is now israel, was never palestinian land. Mainly as there never was a Palestinian nation or people

The geneisis of the Jews was in this land. The Arabs, in the Arabian Penisular

So you are backing the colonialists here, the squaters, which in this case in the Arabs

Dishonest Didge wrote:Again the Jews were not compensated

You are talking about 'adequacy' of the compensation. I am talking about sufficiency. It doesn't matter whether the compensation was adequate. The point is that it was intended as compensation.

And, I think your opinion of adequacy would be different, had the Jews been awarded the lands of Italy.

Cry Baby Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Again the Jews were not compensated

You are talking about 'adequacy' of the compensation.  I am talking about sufficiency.  It doesn't matter whether the compensation was adequate.  The point is that it was intended as compensation.

And, I think your opinion of adequacy would be different, had the Jews been awarded the lands of Italy.

But there never was any compensation

Nor did any Europeans create Israel

The Jews recreated Israel

So using your argument, why not move the Palestinian Arabs to California and create a state there for them, to solve the issue?

Then tell me why you are not fighting the courner of the countless other displaced people in the Middle east?

Why only the Palestinian Arab squatters?

Dishonorable Didge wrote:Their creation had nothing to do with the Holocaust, as they were created before this

The Holocaust was the result of discrimination against the Jews. Israel was the result of discrimination against the Jews. You can't say they aren't related.

The antipathy of Muslims toward Europeans all relate back to the taking of Palestinian lands for a Jewish nation. I've already stated that Iraq. Lebanon, and Syria are theaters in their own right. But they all stem from that one choice.

Cry baby Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:Their creation had nothing to do with the Holocaust, as they were created before this

The Holocaust was the result of discrimination against the Jews.  Israel was the result of discrimination against the Jews.  You can't say they aren't related.

The antipathy of Muslims toward Europeans all relate back to the taking of Palestinian lands for a Jewish nation.  I've already stated that Iraq. Lebanon, and Syria are theaters in their own right.  But they all stem from that one choice.

Israel was not created due to discrimination of the Jews.

In fact the British did everything to try and stop israel being created

So much so to the point, hundreds of thousands of Jews were denied being allowed into the Mandate

Its like I said, this is what is wrong with the left, how they are brainwashed with lies

So if there is antipathy from Muslims, then its the Muslims that are the problem here and not the Jews.

These lands, were once Christian and formerly jewish

To thus claim they are Muslim lands, shows and proves to me, you believe into the midset of actual Islamic beliefs then

What you are suggesting is that Germany had every right to feel aggrieved over the creation of Poland and that the Poles had no right to self determination

That is esentially what you are arguing

Dishonorable Didge wrote:Nor did any Europeans create Israel

The modern Israel in Levant would never have happened without European permission and support.