Italy's new govt

First topic message reminder :

considering the fact that the new govt in italy is considered "populist" and that the same term is applied to many "anti establishment" political parties, I am at a slight loss to understand what the problem is

surely "populist " = appealing to the popular vote

and surely then this is what democracy actually IS the "voice of the people" i.e a govt voted for by having popular policies.

now, I would agree that this may make for "uncomfortable times" and even chaos BUT no one EVER promised that democracy would deliver stability /easy living etc..........

I support a non-democratic Technocratic system. Policies made by Maths/Science, not feelings/opinions/fear.

I Don't vote for the major parties

you're probably right 60% of people are Too stupid to vote (30% either way)

Fuck What people think they want. You say you want a working NHS, police etc?
and then talk about Immigration(which is barely related) but never talk about actually Fixing/Funding the NHS properly. SO What do you actually want? dumb hill shepherd shit
which is why Democracy is pointless.

veya_victaous wrote:I support a non-democratic Technocratic system. Policies made by Maths/Science, not feelings/opinions/fear.

I Don't vote for the major parties

you're probably right 60% of people are Too stupid to vote (30% either way)

Fuck What people think they want. You say you want a working NHS, police etc?
and then talk about Immigration(which is barely related) but never talk about actually Fixing/Funding the NHS properly. SO What do you actually want? dumb hill shepherd shit
which is why Democracy is pointless.

You are a complete numb-nut!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:I support a non-democratic Technocratic system. Policies made by Maths/Science, not feelings/opinions/fear.

I Don't vote for the major parties

you're probably right 60% of people are Too stupid to vote (30% either way)

Fuck What people think they want. You say you want a working NHS, police etc?
and then talk about Immigration(which is barely related) but never talk about actually Fixing/Funding the NHS properly. SO What do you actually want? dumb hill shepherd shit
which is why Democracy is pointless.

You are a complete numb-nut!!!

I actually concur

His views are the worst form of Totalitarianism I have ever seen.

How he wishes to enforce views, based on people who are free thinkers.

Scientists

Most would be appalled at his views

We have to always believe we can sway people in what is right. Not force this upon them, because the moment we enforce beliefs. We fail at the very aspect we are trying to achieve and that education has failed.

If education has failed, then who are they to then claim to be teachers?

To learn right from wrong, is an understanding

We all know we want people to treat us, as we would want them to treat them

He has a small valid point on fear and is poorly using the same fear to enforce rule

Hence he ends up being the worst form of hate he claims to stand against

His views are self defeating

Science is great, but it does not answer everything, espcially the non-science subjects like philosophy and phsychology. Without emotions, a scientific world would be void without emotions and we would become like Logan's Run. A world without emotion.

That is not a world, anyone would ever what to live in

Yes there are many problems in the world, but a world based only on scientific thinking and not emotions. Would not be a world, ever worth living in.

As it would be devoid of happiness

We certainly should learn from science, but it should never be the bases to force people how to live

We have to learn by our mistakes.

As where would our world be without love?

The greatest emotion, that there is.

I mean, to give a prime example

Scientifically, it would be taught not to risk your life for another, as you place your life at risk.

You would then never see acts of greatness, kindess and heroism, like this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5777403/Paris-hero-climbs-four-storey-apartment-block-rescue-boy.html#ixzz5GmBdXloo

The best fighters in the world in conflicts, have formed bonds. From the Spartans, to the Theban 300 Sacred band of brothers. Gay lovers dying to a man. When surrounded by Philip of Macedon, the father of Alexander the great. At the Battle of Chaeronea. They refused to surrender. They all died, out of love for each other. That was the bond they have.

Can you imagine Veya being able to convince people to fight for his beliefs? There is no compassion there and if he used machines, he would instill a belief in humans to live, to survive against his Totalitarianism. If he let loose basically terminators on them. He has no comprehension of humanity in history for good or bad.


Thank goodness we have emotions, as that is what makes us humans.

A great bit of soap box waffle & guff there from didge... who seems to think that good govt is about 'fluffy bunnies/being really nice to everyone/warm cuddles for all'...!





I don't know who (out of veya & didge) is the most deserving of some time wearing a straight jacket in a padded room...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

A great bit of soap box waffle & guff there from didge... who seems to think that good govt is about 'fluffy bunnies/being really nice to everyone/warm cuddles for all'...!





I don't know who (out of veya & didge) is the most deserving of some time wearing a straight jacket in a padded room...!?

I never even made a view how government should be Tommy

I simple exposed Veyas views that would be devoid of emotions

Hey ho

I guess that is how someone of your limited intellect thinks

I guess the only question to ask, is, do you want to still be breastfed?

It seems to me, that is where your anger stems from

It's turned into the usual right royal mess. They have no reputation to lose.

there is a reason Augustus made Rome an Empire
and the greatest weakness of the empire was the emotions of the human emperor.


Plus it's going to happen anyway, AI will overtake Humans as the dominate 'life'.
Rats and Dogs both have emotions too, yet look how differently we treat them.
it will be much better to convince AI to keep us as pets than let it decide we are vermin.



 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk  

veya_victaous wrote:there is a reason Augustus made Rome an Empire
and the greatest weakness of the empire was the emotions of the human emperor.


Plus it's going to happen anyway, AI will overtake Humans as the dominate 'life'.
Rats and Dogs both have emotions too, yet look how differently we treat them.
it will be much better to convince AI to keep us as pets than let it decide we are vermin.



 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk  

You mean Octavian. Who only built upon what his forebears did and at the price of liberty for others. basically treating anyone else as inferior and classed as barbarians. You really need to read some more Roman history. As its very clear to me, you know very little about this era. I mean they sought to try and control the masses and in the end, it was the masses that ended up controlling them. None of the great Romans in history could not have been great, without the masses support. From the the two main dictators, Sulla and Julius Caesar. They also knew, to control Rome. Had to be through force, by armed force. Which meant becoming a family to the men that served under them. So again it was emotions, that brought about their success.

The greatest weakness of the Empire, turned out to be Christianity and helped bring down a barbaric system. It brought love and hope into an Empire, that then saw others take advantage of this weakness through invasions. By people who had been fleeing other invades like the Huns. A mass off germans then sought sanctuary in the Roman Empire. Then later Christianity was taken over by those who sought to control. It shows humanity has greatly striggled to get along with their fellow humans.

How anyone can cheer AI taking control of humanity, shows that you have lost faith in not only humanity, but yourself Veya. Reason and rational arguments still stem from emotions, from wanting to do what people think is best. Its why we have faults, but one thing that is inherant in nature is love. Its widespread throughout the animal kingdom, where animals care for their young. Its why even we see people care for those not biologically of their own. I have always said humans have domesticated animals for their own needs and argued this many times, but dogs more than any animal, also love that human companionship. They also thrive on the love they have with humans. It can be an unbreakable bond. Where once I thought it was wrong that we have domesticated animals, but as seen, it actually shows how animals can cross a bridge of love together. It actually shows their is hope for all species on earth. That two seperate species can share such love, through companionship.

Humans are not far off evolving for the better. It may take a few more thousand years, but there is one thing that brings all humans together. A common threat. Whether that be an illness or an armed threat. If the threat came from AI, then it would bring humanity together. Its our greatest fears and threats that are real. That have always combined humanity. Even with those who are also a threat. Like in WW2 with the alliance of the US and Britain with Communist Russia. The main threat to deal with then, was Nazism and Imperial Japan

We have an uphill struggle, but it can only be achieved by learning from our mistakes. Its the very thought of death, that keeps people inspired to be alive and live.

Oh and I will add one more important point mate.

We would never be pets but slaves. As to be pets, would require the AI to have emotions itself. Which if the AI had emotions and also reason. Then nulifies your view on then something rational governing, because it would then have allowed emotions to also govern its reasoning. To then allow for the AI to love and care for humans as a pet.

Thus humans could never be pets to AI, but slaves, if kept alive of course, because something devoid of emotions. Would more likely look upon humans as a threat. Based on the population size and look to cull us. Just as we do with an over population of a specific type animal today with many species that are over populated. Like I say, for the AI to care for humans and basically its creator, would require emotions. Thus its very unlikely for you to then to have a AI ruling system devoid of emotions. As this would be programmed into the system.

If not, then humans, would be perceived a threat to the world, as i say. Due to its population and basically destroyed. Due to the harm we cause to the environment. Thus a rational system, would look to netutalize that threat.

So you may want to rethink your view points on this.