Russia declares war on UK

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Sky News wrote:Salisbury spy poisoning an 'act of war' against UK
The Home Secretary is promising a "robust" response to the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter with a nerve agent.

By Greg Heffer, Political Reporter

Russia will have committed a "brazen act of war" against Britain if Moscow is found responsible for a nerve agent attack on UK soil, the Government has been told.



The poisoning of Russian double agent Sergei Skripal, 65, and his daughter Yulia, 33, in Salisbury, Wiltshire, was described by Home Secretary Amber Rudd on Thursday as "attempted murder in the most cruel and public way".

The Cabinet minister promised a "robust" response once responsibility for the attack is established, but she told the House of Commons her current priority is on the immediate response to the incident.

However, senior Tory MP Sir Edward Leigh used Ms Rudd's update to MPs on the poisoning to demand increased defence spending.

He declared the Government's two per cent of GDP spend on defence as "not enough" in the face of the current threat from Russia.

Sir Edward also claimed there is "very strong" circumstantial evidence against Moscow over the attack on former spy Mr Skripal and his daughter.

"Who else would have the motive and the means?" he asked.

"Those of us who seek to understand Russia know that the only way to preserve peace is through strength.

"And, if Russia is behind this, this is a brazen act of war. Of humiliating our country."

Ms Rudd told Sir Edward "there will come a time for attribution", which would subsequently lead to "consequences".

Earlier, in a statement to MPs, Ms Rudd called the use of a nerve agent on UK soil as "a brazen and reckless act".

She added: "People are right to want to know who to hold to account. But, if we are to be rigorous in this investigation, we must avoid speculation and allow police to carry on their investigation.

"The investigation now involves hundreds of officers following every possible lead to find those responsible.

"We are committed to doing all we can to bring the perpetrators to justice - whoever they are and wherever they may be.

"The investigation is moving at pace and this Government will act without hesitation as the facts become clearer."

Earlier on Thursday, Ms Rudd revealed to Sky News a police officer who was hurt in the attack is "awake and engaging with people", although Mr Skripal and his daughter remain in a "very serious" condition in hospital.

Her fellow Cabinet minister, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson, also declined to say whether Moscow was responsible for the Salisbury attack but branded Russia an "ever-greater threat" to the UK.

"Russia's being assertive, Russia's being more aggressive, and we have to change the way that we deal with it," he told ITV.

"We can't be in a situation in these areas of conflict where we are being pushed around by another nation."

Former Tory minister Nick Boles called on the Government to "turn tough talk into action" over Russia, posting on Twitter: "I do not see how we can maintain diplomatic relations with a country that tries to murder people on British soil and puts the lives of British citizens at risk."

Former top UK diplomat Sir Christopher Meyer, who previously worked in Moscow, said any evidence of Russian state involvement in the Salisbury poisoning would require a British response.

He told Sky News: "You cannot tolerate a government assassination on British soil. It is absolutely beyond the pale and needs a reaction."

Looks like Russia is taking over the local gang activity in Europe.  Trump is scared shitless of Putin, so it falls to Britain to take the lead in the west.  Gd Luck, mates.

Tommy Monk wrote:


Not evidence...!

That is plenty of evidence

The thing is Tommy and answer me this.

Why would the Uk place itself in an even weaken postion on this with Brexit?

It needs trade partners and both nations would lose out.

Germany and Italy want to have sanctions on Russia eased. So the EU with Germany and Italy want to increase trade with Russia. Where the Uk could lose out even more

The reality is, that it makes no sense for the Uk to lie here

Didge wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Not evidence...!

That is plenty of evidence

The thing is Tommy and answer me this.

Why would the Uk place itself in an even weaken postion on this with Brexit?

It needs trade partners and both nations would lose out.

Germany and Italy want to have sanctions on Russia eased. So the EU with Germany and Italy want to increase trade with Russia. Where the Uk could lose out even more

The reality is, that it makes no sense for the Uk to lie here

More waffle...!


All you are really saying, is an argument why Russia wouldn't have been involved...!


Think about it...


Why would they risk international condemnation and increased sanctions and hostility, when an easing of sanctions and increased trade is so close for them...?


And by trying to bump off some nobody in such a way that would cause them so much trouble, and be so easy for others to be able to blame them for...?

Becuase they can do so

This is the country that annexed the Crimea

Its dominating in Syria

Its carried out countless assassinations

To me, I think Putin does it because he can

Look at how he showed the world his new missles that are undectable

Its all about power and control

But you just said Germany/Italy/EU want to lift sanctions and increase trade... despite all that...!


Make your mind up dodge...!

Tommy Monk wrote:

But you just said Germany/Italy/EU want to lift sanctions and increase trade... despite all that...!


Make your mind up dodge...!

That is Germany and Italy

They are not Russia or Putin

As seen he does as he pleases and nobody stops him

So nothing to make my min up about

Here have a read

Night

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/russian-deaths-uk-history-spies-murder-sergei-skripal-alexander-litvinenko-a8242061.html

Flip flop waffle arguments are all yours dodge... you are like a broken pencil... pointless...!!!

magica wrote:War is not inevitable. Two Russians poisoned, not poisoning British.

We went to war once over the ArchDuke Ferdinand who was murdered.  Millions died. For what, some man no one heard of here.  Do we want this again, course not. We wouldn't stand a chance now.

Mag, are you a Russian bot?  Are you with the Internet Research Agency in St. Petersburg?  I've never heard such a ridiculous argument.  A Russian gasses Salifbury, and you're arguing the origins of WWI??  We're witnessing a veritable act of war, not a history lecture.

I'm against starting wars for frivolous reasons too--WMD's in Iraq and all that--but still in all, nerve-gassing a community is a bit more extreme.  I know...if you're so bent on an equal measure response, how about releasing a nerve gas in Red Square at rush hour?  We can argue that anyone who is killed was reckless and got in the way of the 'targeting'.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Thank you for putting it more succinctly than I did.  I'm so angry about this that I'm unable to think straight.  First, the attack itself.  Then the betrayal of the American president, who took 7-days just to mention it (today).  But what gets me are the Brits who are shrugging it off.

This is Putin, folks, making a renewed move on the west.  And little Europe huddles together like shivering lambs, hoping the US will come be the big, strong shepherd.  He ain't there folks.  Putin has checkmated him.  It's part of the plan.  Putin has something on Trump, and it's bigger than western Europe.  

Israel?  They suck on our hind tit for sustenance.  As soon as Israel comes face-to-face with Russia, it will be slapped down to the ground.  And there will be Trump: tsk-tsk, I would'a helped, but I was busy with tax-cuts for the rich.

Get your act together Brits, cause we won't be there for some seven years unless we can impeach the cock-sucker.

What do you want the Brits to do? Nuke Russia maybe?

It's not a "move on the west", it's an attack on a Russian who apparently betrayed Russia. If he'd been in any other country they would have poisoned him there. It's nothing to do with the US either, so don't drag them into it.

It's a mass destruction (gas) attack on British soil.  Putin does this because he has neutralized the American president, and he's poking and prodding to see what he can get away with.  His philosophy?  Until you push back, he's got no reason to stop.

No, I don't see Putin starting a nuclear war.  But under his philosophy (above), we are clearly entering a new Cold War.  As Harry Truman said after WWII: "The Russians only understand one language - ‘how many armies have you got?’"  If you want to understand the Russian personality, read Nicholas V. Riasanovsky, History of Russia (1999).

Putin plays chess.  He has now neutralized your threatening piece.  Your move, UK.

Quill, you keep saying it was a gas attack. Do you have a link to prove that it was? You do know that nerve agents can be delivered in a variety of ways? I don't see any mass destruction - do you?

I didn't say that Putin would start a nuclear war, I asked if you thought that the UK should nuke Russia.

Raggamuffin wrote:Quill, you keep saying it was a gas attack. Do you have a link to prove that it was? You do know that nerve agents can be delivered in a variety of ways? I don't see any mass destruction - do you?

The substance was tested by both the British and the US. It was determined, and confirmed to be a nerve gas manufactured only by the Russian military.

Raggamuffin wrote:I didn't say that Putin would start a nuclear war, I asked if you thought that the UK should nuke Russia.

It's a moot point who starts it. The point is, we need to stop looking at this as a hot war altogether, and start appreciating it as a renewal of the former Cold war.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Quill, you keep saying it was a gas attack. Do you have a link to prove that it was? You do know that nerve agents can be delivered in a variety of ways? I don't see any mass destruction - do you?

The substance was tested by both the British and the US.  It was determined, and confirmed to be a nerve gas manufactured only by the Russian military.

Raggamuffin wrote:I didn't say that Putin would start a nuclear war, I asked if you thought that the UK should nuke Russia.

It's a moot point who starts it.  The point is, we need to stop looking at this as a hot war altogether, and start appreciating it as a renewal of the former Cold war.

I doubt any gas was released, otherwise there would be loads of other people dead or severely ill. As far as I know, it's being referred to as an agent, not a gas. Do you have proof that it was gas?

The point is that you seem disgusted at the idea of Brits not doing much about it, so I asked what we should do. That's why I asked if you think we should nuke Russia. Please try to understand what's being said.

Still no evidence...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:


The substance was tested by both the British and the US.  It was determined, and confirmed to be a nerve gas manufactured only by the Russian military.



It's a moot point who starts it.  The point is, we need to stop looking at this as a hot war altogether, and start appreciating it as a renewal of the former Cold war.

I doubt any gas was released, otherwise there would be loads of other people dead or severely ill. As far as I know, it's being referred to as an agent, not a gas. Do you have proof that it was gas?

The point is that you seem disgusted at the idea of Brits not doing much about it, so I asked what we should do. That's why I asked if you think we should nuke Russia. Please try to understand what's being said.

Are you suggesting that they were shot?  Where are the bullet holes?  Toxicology tests performed during the investigation have proven it was the nerve agent Novichok:

GOV. UK wrote:Prime Minister Theresa May gave a statement to Parliament on 14 March. Russia has provided no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the UK, and there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter. This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian State against the United Kingdom.

I have no idea why others were not affected.  Perhaps it was the time of day.  Perhaps the traffic light was red and the flow of people was interrupted.  There are a million reasons why others might have been spared...but one thing is for certain: it wasn't due to the humanitarian instincts of the Russians.  There's no such thing.

WHAT IS NOVICHOK?

A new group of nerve agents developed by the former Soviet Union in the 1970s and 1980s, it is considered many times more lethal than VX, the chemical used to assassinate Kim Jong-nam, the half-brother of North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un, at a Malaysian airport in 2016.

It can be dispersed as a fine powder rather than a gas, and is usually absorbed through inhalation.

Fast-acting, it works as other nerve agents do, blocking transmitters to the brain which leads to death by asphyxiations the victim is unable to breathe

it's a 'gas' that can be 'reduced' to a powdered form. there is no indication of which variant was used

"... Russia has provided no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the UK, and there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter..."


Russia may have no idea about any of it... and there are plenty of possibilities as to what went on and who is responsible etc...

Tommy Monk wrote:"... Russia has provided no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the UK, and there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter..."


Russia may have no idea about any of it... and there are plenty of possibilities as to what went on and who is responsible etc...

Ah another defender of Putin.

They are all coming out of the woodwork.

It really takes something when someone who claims to be patriotic, takes the views of the Russians over our own intelligence service

Come off it didge...


This whole event has 'bullshit' written all over it...!

Didge wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:"... Russia has provided no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the UK, and there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter..."


Russia may have no idea about any of it... and there are plenty of possibilities as to what went on and who is responsible etc...

Ah another defender of Putin.

They are all coming out of the woodwork.

It really takes something when someone who claims to be patriotic, takes the views of the Russians over our own intelligence service

I think we're being allowed a rare insight into the Russian bots on this site. Who else would side with the enemy over our own?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Come off it didge...


This whole event has 'bullshit' written all over it...!

IT'S PHOTSHOP !!!!!!

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Ah another defender of Putin.

They are all coming out of the woodwork.

It really takes something when someone who claims to be patriotic, takes the views of the Russians over our own intelligence service

I think we're being allowed a rare insight into the Russian bots on this site.  Who else would side with the enemy over our own?

I am not surprised at all really. I think some have ulteria motives for defending the Russian Governement

Interesting to see the polls on this







https://news.sky.com/story/sky-data-poll-most-britons-back-theresa-may-over-jeremy-corbyn-on-russia-11290985


Obviously there is people placing their support for Labour, over the securtity of the country by the above. Though what is good to see, that clearly a large number of labour supporters do not support Corbyn on this

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I doubt any gas was released, otherwise there would be loads of other people dead or severely ill. As far as I know, it's being referred to as an agent, not a gas. Do you have proof that it was gas?

The point is that you seem disgusted at the idea of Brits not doing much about it, so I asked what we should do. That's why I asked if you think we should nuke Russia. Please try to understand what's being said.

Are you suggesting that they were shot?  Where are the bullet holes?  Toxicology tests performed during the investigation have proven it was the nerve agent Novichok:

GOV. UK wrote:Prime Minister Theresa May gave a statement to Parliament on 14 March. Russia has provided no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the UK, and there is no alternative conclusion other than that the Russian State was culpable for the attempted murder of Mr Skripal and his daughter. This represents an unlawful use of force by the Russian State against the United Kingdom.

I have no idea why others were not affected.  Perhaps it was the time of day.  Perhaps the traffic light was red and the flow of people was interrupted.  There are a million reasons why others might have been spared...but one thing is for certain: it wasn't due to the humanitarian instincts of the Russians.  There's no such thing.

Er - you said it was a nerve gas. What evidence do you have that there was any gas released? It's much more likely that it was administered via the skin.

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:

Ah another defender of Putin.

They are all coming out of the woodwork.

It really takes something when someone who claims to be patriotic, takes the views of the Russians over our own intelligence service

I think we're being allowed a rare insight into the Russian bots on this site.  Who else would side with the enemy over our own?

...says the two peddlers of propaganda...!

I like the idea of being a Russian bot.

It's a first for me, being called 'a Russian bot'... now, where did I put that vodka...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I think we're being allowed a rare insight into the Russian bots on this site.  Who else would side with the enemy over our own?

...says the two peddlers of propaganda...!

Oh dear, but what propaganda?

Lets lay this down for you Tommy.
Putin, puts away either in prison or kill those in opposition to him. We know he imprisons the oppistion and countless Russians oppossed to him have died in huge numbers.

Is that propaganda or actual facts?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/03/23/here-are-ten-critics-of-vladimir-putin-who-died-violently-or-in-suspicious-ways/?utm_term=.5c07d7dd398a

All I am seeing is one connection here and its a very simple conncection. The conspiracy brigade, all linked to Julian Assange. The Russian version of Joseph Goebbels, or more to the point, the modern day Australian version of Lord Haw Haw. 

I mean I have even see today, yet again Israel brought into the topic on chemical weapons.

Why?

Because, Israel and by extension Jews, have always been an easy target, for people to cast them as guilty for crimes clearly they did not commit. It ranges from 9/11 to just about every attack in the west by Islamic extremists. As if there is some Jewish conspiracy to commit terror acts in the west. Of course that is not the real motivation. Its to detract from the very people who committed these terrorist acts. Islamic extremists. What is even more absurd, is these same people do not claim any such views, based around the tens of thousands of terrorists attacks around the rest of the world by islamic extramists. It seems in most countries around the world, where they are carried out by Islamic extremists. People fall prey to that same old antisemitism, which was seen in Nazi Germany. When it comes to any islamic terrorist attack in the west. 

Blame the Jews, as they have always been the easy target for people to blame

They see an easy target by continually using Jews as a scapegoat, which has continually happened throughout history and again on this latest attack. Jews are brought up again through israel.

The reality is, anyone that does not think Muslim extremists did not carry out 9/11, do so based on the most racist reasons. That they do not think they are capable or intelligent enough to pull off such an horrific event. Its this racist mindset that looks down on Arabs, as if they are not having the intelligence to coordinate such an attack. Now most of this is unconcious racism. Where it feeds into a mindset, that people do not want to believe people are capable of such acts. Yet they stupidly deny the mas of evidence proving it was islamic terorists. 

I mean how else can you explain why people look to find so many points that they themselves find odd (even though they have all been refuted). To the point, they simple cannot believe Muslim extremists could carry out such an attack. Even knowing they tried a dummy run on this and the fact that kill in mass numbers both Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Which is nothing new, because such wars have gone unabated since the split of Islam, through Sunni and Shia. I mean not once do you see you claim the abductions and rape of Nigerian children by Boko Haram, are an inside job by the American Goverment. Or any of their countless terrorist attacks. Or the tens of thousands of others each year by Islamists groups. You question 9/11 based on the gullibility of buying into other insecure people. As that is the other only unreasonable alternative.

Either you do not hold Muslim Arab extremist to be intelligent enoughto carry out an attack, or you are emphatically insecure to believe. That it was an inside job. Where also as some Muslims and the Far left blame Isreal (emphatically antisemitic)

Or you are so insecure, you claim to not trust anyone, (though contradict by trusting conspiracy nuts). That you cannot believe Muslim extremists would fly through the concept of martydom, planes into buildings on 9/11. There is no other explanation. We see many Muslims extremists willingly give their lives in suicide bombings, yet when we see a massive upgrade on how this is implimented. Those either racist or insecure cannot believe Muslim Arab extremists could do this. Yet have never claim the same in any Muslim extremist bombing outside the west

So, here we are again, with your insecurities
You do not believe the evidence, even though its overwhelming.
As you have not seen it

Trust issues big time

The more waffle I see... the more I am convinced that Russia had nothing to do with this...!

Tommy Monk wrote:The more waffle I see... the more I am convinced that Russia had nothing to do with this...!

Which proves my point, your trust issues

Where and as seen ironically you trust instead whackadoodles, with warped an insane conspiracy theories

From the moon landings to 9/11, climate change etc with you

Tommy Monk wrote:

It's a first for me, being called 'a Russian bot'... now, where did I put that vodka...?

Russian bots rule!

Tommy Monk wrote:
I think this may well have been done by others to try to get Russia to be blamed... reason might be twofold... first to try to gain support against Russia/Assad in Syria... second to try to seize Russians money/assets here in UK and elsewhere...

I posted this on 12th March...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:
I think this may well have been done by others to try to get Russia to be blamed... reason might be twofold... first to try to gain support against Russia/Assad in Syria... second to try to seize Russians money/assets here in UK and elsewhere...

I posted this on 12th March...

And it's just as ridiculous today.  A convoluted theory for which there is absolutely no evidence, nor justification.

Have you ever heard of Occam's razor?  It's a principle first developed by the Franciscan friar and philosopher, William of Ockham.  It holds that: the simplest answer is most often the correct one.  Another more cynical way of stating it is, explanations should not be multiplied needlessly.

I gave a simple answer...

Tommy Monk wrote:I gave a simple answer...

The simplest answer reduces to means and motive. A Russian poison is used on Russian defectors = Russian revenge. What's wrong with the most obvious answer?

No evidence it was Russian poison... or that Russians attacked them...

Sky News wrote:Tory MP Sir Edward Leigh also claimed there is "very strong" circumstantial evidence against Moscow over the attack on former spy Mr Skripal and his daughter.

"Who else would have the motive and the means?" he asked.

Russia is the only country who manufactures this particular agent.

Rubbish!!!

Nonsense.

Firstly... it is entirely possible that the Skirpals themselves were involved in some way in the transportation of some agent... and affected by a leak...


So not established that this was even an attack on them...


Also... plenty of other possibilities as to who may have 'motive and means' if this was a deliberate attack...


Or maybe the whole thing has been a big charade for political agenda purposes...



Deadly Russian nerve agent attack... but no dead people... and no proof of anything else...!?


The whole thing stinks!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:Firstly... it is entirely possible that the Skirpals themselves were involved in some way in the transportation of some agent... and affected by a leak...

So not established that this was even an attack on them...

Also... plenty of other possibilities as to who may have 'motive and means' if this was a deliberate attack...

Or maybe the whole thing has been a big charade for political agenda purposes...

Deadly Russian nerve agent attack... but no dead people... and no proof of anything else...!?

The whole thing stinks!!!

All rubbish. Go back to Occam's razor. You speak of 'possibilities', but you make it unnecessarily complicated by adding additional facts and suppositions. Where's the evidence for the facts and suppositions? It's not there.

So, as Friar Occam suggests, don't make up shit.

Where is ANY EVIDENCE of anything...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:Where is ANY EVIDENCE of anything...!?

Right. There is evidence, but they are not sharing it with every tom, dick or harry. They know the Russians pulled it off, else May wouldn't have made such a certain claim. For you and me, the evidence is between the cracks.

Go with the simplest explanation. MI6 knows who did it!

Rubbish!!!


All a charade!!!