Trade war Against the USA all but declared by US allies

LABOR has pledged support for the Turnbull government if it joins a trade war against United States Failing Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Shit Gibbon.

Opposition treasury spokesman Chris Bowen said about $240 million in steel exports and $70 million in aluminium sales to America were at stake.

And other countries could attempt to dump cheap product on the Australian market if denied access to American buyers.

Mr Trump announced he will impose a 25 per cent tariff on steel imports and 10 per cent on aluminium, with no countries to be exempted.

“Well I think that we should look at all options in the national interest,” Mr Bowen told ABC radio. “And as I said, the Government would have the full support of the Labor Party for anything it does to convince the United States, and if that’s not successful then obviously the Government would be within its right to consider what comes next.”

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull discussed trade with Mr Trump in Washington last week but was given no assurances Australia would be affected badly by his trade policy.

In fact, the ABC reports Donald Trump “emphatically” promised to exempt Australian steel and aluminium from US tariffs during a meeting last year.

Australian Trade Minister Steve Ciobo at the weekend telephoned US Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross but was unable to get any clarification. That was because at that stage even senior members of the Trump administration hadn’t been given the details of the President’s plans.

Mr Trump is being told by many sources, including British Prime Minister Theresa May, who telephoned him at the weekend, that the tariffs would hurt America’s allies such as the United Kingdom, South Korea and Canada.

But in a tweet today Mr Trump made clear no allies would be safe from his clampdown on imports. The warning came with a “sorry”, clearly a fake apology.

“We are on the losing side of almost all trade deals. Our friends and enemies have taken advantage of the US for many years,” he tweeted.

“Our Steel and Aluminium industries are dead.

“Sorry, it’s time for change! MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”

Mr Trump’s move move could ignight a trade war, with Europe already threatening to put levies on American goods. This could push up interest rates, rock the stock market, and add to global economic uncertainty.

“So clearly this is the number one priority at the moment in the bilateral relationship that Australia should be pressing to the United States,” Mr Bowen said.

“One, an exemption for Australia, and two, more broadly, to step back a trade war here would be very damaging to everybody involved including the United States.

“This is a matter where all Governments in the world are fully entitled to press the incumbent administration on what should happen, and most particularly nations like ours who, we are told, are key strategic allies in the United States.

“We would need to see that reflected in a detailed policy response, not just in words and sentiment.”

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/turnbull-govt-considering-a-trade-war-with-the-us-over-steel-and-aluminium-imports/news-story/84a89919cb06c95e13696263a1ab4434

veya_victaous wrote:Well Trumps Fucked the USA up royally
with the pending trade war with China and Mexico
He has gone and made every single one of the USA's Allies
declare they will Retaliate with their own tariffs on US goods.

the USA will go from 2nd biggest trader to barely trading.

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Well Trumps Fucked the USA up royally
with the pending trade war with China and Mexico
He has gone and made every single one of the USA's Allies
declare they will Retaliate with their own tariffs on US goods.

the USA will go from 2nd biggest trader to barely trading.

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".


 

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".


 

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe.
SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

Let alone China using this opportunity to expand it's economic influence further.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

15% of U.S. citizens are currently living below the "poverty" level...

Next year, once skyrocketing prices and plummeting paypackets bite home, it could well be 30% of Americans crying poor..

Many of whom either voted for the Dumpster,  or didn't bother to vote at all..

Big Donnie promised to "make 'merika gwate ag'in' !",  when what he should have said is "I promise to make 'merika number two before the end of my first term  !!!"

While the rest of the world is looking at a pending recession if worse comes to worse, Donnie Dumpster seems determined to push the USA over the brink and into a technical 'Depression'..

Let's just hope that our Amerikan comrades are well cashed up to chase any buying opportunities when the NYSE crashes in a few months...      

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".


 

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe.
SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

Let alone China using this opportunity to expand it's economic influence further.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

It's funny how you are all of a sudden worried about a country raising a tarriff which is the same as a tax.  I'm glad to see you beginning to understand how they can hurt an economy and consumers even if they are targeting and paid by global corporations.  

Now if I could just see some consistency in your positions.  

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's funny how you are all of a sudden worried about a country raising a tarriff which is the same as a tax.  I'm glad to see you beginning to understand how they can hurt an economy and consumers even if they are targeting and paid by global corporations.  

Now if I could just see some consistency in your positions.  

Taxes on Goods and Services are by Nature regressive taxes (unless they are specifically targeted "luxury" taxes) as the tax is a greater proportion of the lower income earners available resources
I support a progressive Income tax system where the More you earn the higher your tax rate

All Taxes are not Equal, and do not serve the same purpose
To Raise funds to Provide Public services is Very different than to decrease the competitiveness of a more efficient producer.

My position is Consistent but is Nuanced enough o Actually be based in reality as opposed to Your Comic book madness

veya_victaous wrote:and so what if the prices are slightly higher across a range of goods, if it means that Critical Services like health and education are universally available.

Fuck, do you really value 10% off a smart phone more than poor American Child's life??

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:and so what if the prices are slightly higher across a range of goods, if it means that Critical Services like health and education are universally available.

Fuck, do you really value 10% off a smart phone more than poor American Child's life??

So what if folks have a hard time buying groceries for their kids eh?  

A tariff could raise the money to save a child's life.  

Maddog wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:and so what if the prices are slightly higher across a range of goods, if it means that Critical Services like health and education are universally available.

Fuck, do you really value 10% off a smart phone more than poor American Child's life??

So what if folks have a hard time buying groceries for their kids eh?  

A tariff could raise the money to save a child's life.  

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Maddog wrote:

So what if folks have a hard time buying groceries for their kids eh?  

A tariff could raise the money to save a child's life.  

Tariffs never help poor people...

There are two effective ways of helping those poor people, in the short term ==

*   Raise their gross income, whether through higher minimum wage levels, more realistic wage increases;

*   Raise the tax-free threshold, and the progressive tax levels for those low paid workers  --  so that they have more takehome pay to buy more food..

Tariffs put up prices of imported goods, thereby adding to inflationary pressures for the next year, which will flow through to increased costs of living for virtually everybody.   They might save the jobs of 2% of the steel industry's workforce, and give a few more a nice little payrise into the deal;  but millions of everyday Americans will be paying the price..       Especially if a trade war breaks out in a few months,  even worse if the US economy tanks next year...

Cutting corporate taxes only makes the bosses richer, as they go and buy another house, more shares,  a horse stud, a new yacht  --  none of which will "trickle down" to the lower 70% of the economy.

Tommy Monk wrote:Wolf... you have absolutely no idea about economics... clearly...


Your 'short term' fix ideas, are typical of labour govt thinking here in uk... knee jerk reactionary... and always creating many more widespread and longer term problems by their intervention, than they actually solved...

Original Quill wrote:Precisely my feeling, wolf.  Where the fuck does he get the gall even speaking about economics?  Ignorant twat.

He doesn't even know the definition of socialism.  He got his learning out of comic books.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Precisely my feeling, wolf.  Where the fuck does he get the gall even speaking about economics?  Ignorant twat.

He doesn't even know the definition of socialism.  He got his learning out of comic books.

Neither do you know the definition of Socialism

For example there is many forms

Religious socialism
Libertarian socialism
Democratic socialism
Liberal socialism
Progressive socialism
Communism

Still all a nightmare

Original Quill wrote:

Didge wrote:


Neither do you know the definition of Socialism

For example there is many forms

Religious socialism
Libertarian socialism
Democratic socialism
Liberal socialism
Progressive socialism
Communism

Still all a nightmare

Didge, you are a collector, not a ratiocinator or theorist. ^ Look at your answer...a collection, offering no analytical detail.  And all you do in your many posts, is collect through your many, many c&p's, tho some of them are thoughtful in themselves.  The point is, you didn't do the thinking.

Here again, you offer no analytical thinking as to what is socialism.  Think about what the term "analysis" means; Galileo described it as the resolutive/compositive method--to take apart and put together.  Until you understand the internal, systemic workings of something--until you take it apart and put it back together--you don't understand it.  Tommy does not understand the internal, systemic workings of socialism, and neither do you.

I'm not touting my skills, but I am willing to defend my position.  I have offered detailed descriptions of socialism, from its history to its analytical meaning.  I have offered books and articles that discuss the topic.  I have offered scholars, such as George Lichtheim, Bertrand Russell, and Leon Trotsky, who are the contemporary and recent experts on socialism.  Until you reach that level of proficiency on the subject, you don't pass the litmus test.

And tommy sure doesn't.

veya_victaous wrote:

Maddog wrote:

There will still be trade. It will just raise the cost of everything for everyone involved in the "war".


 

Umm that is with the BIG Assumption that everyone doesn't decide to Cut the USA out. Everyone else can still trade with everyone else without Tariffs, it would only be US goods that are Tariffed across the globe.
SO it wont effect Most nations as much as the USA. since we will still have tariff-free trade amongst ourselves If anything we might gain new markets as the tariff on US goods means our competing goods become better value in comparison.

Let alone China using this opportunity to expand it's economic influence further.

the problem with most analysis I have seen out of the USA is it all assumes everyone else Will Sit there and take it, We won't (either will the EU or Asia), already we are all preparing counter tariffs and making new trade agreements that exclude the USA.

Ben Mothafuckin' Reilly wrote:
So raising wages is bad and leads to inflation. But those damned immigrants are keeping wages from rising!

You ridiculously conservative types sure twist yourselves into knots.

Didge wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Precisely my feeling, wolf.  Where the fuck does he get the gall even speaking about economics?  Ignorant twat.

He doesn't even know the definition of socialism.  He got his learning out of comic books.

Neither do you know the definition of Socialism

For example there is many forms

Religious socialism
Libertarian socialism
Democratic socialism
Liberal socialism
Progressive socialism
Communism

Still all a nightmare

Tommy Monk wrote:
'...The new figures for housing affordability in England and Wales between 1997 and 2016 have been issued by the Office for National Statistics. They said the median price paid for a home leapt by 259% over this period, while median individual annual earnings could only manage a 68% rise...'

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/mar/17/average-house-price-times-annual-salary-official-figures-ons

Tommy Monk wrote:

You try to talk about 'economics', but fail to recognise one of the fundamental basic principles of it, which is 'supply and demand'...!


In 1997, the incoming labour govt quickly opened the doors to mass immigration... 100s of thousands of people have flooded in every year since then...


Too many people and limited available housing = massive increase in housing costs!


It's a fundamental 'supply & demand' problem... and can't be fixed by a simpleton leftys knee jerk quick fix idea of just raising wage levels a bit... as that just raises everyones wages a bit, and everyone is able to pay a bit more for the available housing, which in turn just raises the costs even more!!!


As the demand is still the same, and only ever increasing with even more immigrants coming in... while supply continues to be at a lower level than the increase in demand!!!


Mass immigration is the cause of the problems... and needs to end, to stop the problem getting worse!!!

veya_victaous wrote:
@tommy
if that were true then why does Australia and New Zealand have the same problems?

Sydney house prices have gone up more than London

it is being caused by wealth being concentrated in too few hands, the rich are getting richer but everyone else is staying the same while cost of living goes up. it comes back to wages growing at less than inflation, which is compounded by corporate tax cuts and evasion.