Who do you love: Israel or Syria

Haaratz wrote:Israel Downs Iranian Drone, Strikes Syria; Israeli F-16 Shot Down

One pilot in serious condition ■ Israel attacks Syrian, Iranian targets in fresh strike ■ Rocket sirens sound throughout northern Israel

Yaniv Kubovich, Jack Khoury, Noa Landau and Noa Shpigel | Feb 10, 2018

An Israeli F-16 was downed Saturday morning after Israel intercepted an Iranian drone launched from Syria into Israeli territory. According to the Israeli army, Syrian anti-aircraft missiles targeted the jet after Israel responded to the infiltration of the drone with a strike in Syria.

The two F-16 pilots ejected as the plane went down in northern Israel. The pilots were taken to the hospital in stable condition. One of the pilots is in serious condition. Following the downing of the jet Israel responded with a fresh "large-scale strike" in Syria.

The pro-Assad military alliance, which includes Iran and Hezbollah, warned Israel on Saturday that any new act of what it called "terrorism" will be met with a "severe and serious response." Russia called on sides to exercise restraint, adding that any threat to the safety of Russian servicemen are "unacceptable."

In response, the Israeli military struck targets in Syria. Manelis said the targets included the trailer from which "the Iranians launched the drone," adding that, "This was a surgical action deep in Syria, target destroyed."

Manelis confirmed that sirens were activated but said civilians were not in danger.

"This is a serious Iranian attack on Israeli territory," Manelis said "Iran is dragging the region into a situation in which it doesn't know how it will end. We are prepared for a variety of incidents...whoever is responsible for this incident is the one who will pay the price."

Rocket sirens sounded for a second time following the downing of the jet. Syrian state TV reported explosions in the Damascus area, calling them new "Israeli aggression."

Shortly afterwards, the Israeli military said it has carried out a fresh 'large-scale strike' against 12 Iranian and Syrian targets in Syria. The targets included four Syrian air-defense batteries and four Iranian targets, the military said.

Landings and departures were temporarily halted at Israel's Ben-Gurion International Airport, located near the central city of Tel Aviv.

An Israeli military spokesman said that Syria and Iran are "playing with fire" and will pay a heavy price. The Prime Minister Office has instructed cabinet ministers not to speak publicly about the events on the northern border.

Opposition sources in Damascus said that an Israeli strike targeted a control tower of a Syrian military airfield near Damascus, and a weapons depot near the Syrian capital.

According to official Israeli sources, since the incidents began Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been holding security consultations and approving the necessary actions in real-time. Members of the Israeli security cabinet have been briefed on the details.

Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman will hold a special security assessment meeting shortly with the IDF chief of staff and senior army and security officials.

Syrian television claimed Saturday morning more than one Israeli aircraft was hit by Syria's defense systems.

Due to Syrian anti-aircraft fire, says the army, rocket sirens sounded in multiple areas of northern Israel, first in the northern Israeli town of Beit She’an and later in the surrounding areas and Golan Heights.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Might?

Evidence that it was?

Where is your evidence that it wasn't? Where does Syria have anti-aircraft guns in Israel?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


It cam down in israeli territory

There is no wonder woman or superman here

How far can you think they can fly when hit Rags?

Where do you propose the Syrian air defences shot at the jet then? Do you think they have facilities in Israel or what?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Where is your evidence that it wasn't? Where does Syria have anti-aircraft guns in Israel?

Do you understand the range of air to air missiles?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Do you understand the range of air to air missiles?

Was it an air-to-air missile?  Are you now saying that the jet was shot from Syria?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Was it an air-to-air missile?  Are you now saying that the jet was shot from Syria?

Did it come down in Israel?

Yes

You need to do the maths here Rags, not me

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Did it come down in Israel?

Yes

You need to do the maths here Rags, not me

That doesn't necessarily mean it was shot in Israel, as I said. It's more likely that it was an surface-to-air missile anyway. The point is that the jet was shot down because it had been attacking Syrian territory - ie, the Syrians were defending themselves against the jets. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. Israel can't really complain it if they were attacking Syria.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

That doesn't necessarily mean it was shot in Israel, as I said. It's more likely that it was an surface-to-air missile anyway. The point is that the jet was shot down because it had been attacking Syrian territory - ie, the Syrians were defending themselves against the jets. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about that. Israel can't really complain it if they were attacking Syria.

Niether does yout assertions. Hence you have no conception of geography on ariel warfare
'
You need proof
'
The facts show this jet came down in Israel

Over to you

It seems clear the jets were sent up to take out the drone and were targetted
So the Syrians certainly responded when the Israeli Jets were in the air

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Niether does yout assertions. Hence you have no conception of geography on ariel warfare
'
You need proof
'
The facts show this jet came down in Israel

Over to you

You've already been wrong in this thread when you said this:

It seems clear the jets were sent up to take out the drone and were targetted
So the Syrians certainly responded when the Israeli Jets were in the air

Can you explain why the Syrians should not defend their country against Israeli jets which are attacking it?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You've already been wrong in this thread when you said this:



Can you explain why the Syrians should not defend their country against Israeli jets which are attacking it?

They never defended their country but their drone

So how am i wrong

It happened over Israel

That is evident by the fact the Israeli jet and the drone came down over Israel

Can you explain why you keep avoding these facts?

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Europe stopped when they looked around in 1945 and decided they had enough.

The Middle East will do the same one day.  It won't be as a result of outside interference.  

One more time.  They hate us being there and our involvement is not helping matters.  

1) Sorry but that is just bollocks mate. The hate continued after 1945 or did you not even know that?
16 million Germans were ethically cleansed. Hundreds of thousands of jews, released from concentration camps were denied their own homes to come back to. Stalin ethnicaly cleaned Ukranians, Poles etc up until 1952. Sorry mate, but I could go on the list is endless how the racism that happened in WW2 continued way after

2) The only reason that the middle east has not done the same is they are like the losers of WW1 and not WW2. Germany and Japan were utterly defeated in the later. Have you seen them rise up since?

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


1) Sorry but that is just bollocks mate. The hate continued after 1945 or did you not even know that?
16 million Germans were ethically cleansed. Hundreds of thousands of jews, released from concentration camps were denied their own homes to come back to. Stalin ethnicaly cleaned Ukranians, Poles etc up until 1952. Sorry mate, but I could go on the list is endless how the racism that happened in WW2 continued way after

2) The only reason that the middle east has not done the same is they are like the losers of WW1 and not WW2. Germany and Japan were utterly defeated in the later. Have you seen them rise up since?

Have you seen peace break out in the Middle East?

I supported the Iraq invasion as I likened it to stopping Hitler before he got too strong.  

I now know all those American and British troops died for nothing.  Our involvement there was a waste of blood and treasure. Our involvement in Syria and Libya has accomplished nothing.  

Remind me what the definition of insanity is.  

Didge wrote:I guess Rags is desperately serching Google

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


1) Sorry but that is just bollocks mate. The hate continued after 1945 or did you not even know that?
16 million Germans were ethically cleansed. Hundreds of thousands of jews, released from concentration camps were denied their own homes to come back to. Stalin ethnicaly cleaned Ukranians, Poles etc up until 1952. Sorry mate, but I could go on the list is endless how the racism that happened in WW2 continued way after

2) The only reason that the middle east has not done the same is they are like the losers of WW1 and not WW2. Germany and Japan were utterly defeated in the later. Have you seen them rise up since?

Have you seen peace break out in the Middle East?

I supported the Iraq invasion as I likened it to stopping Hitler before he got too strong.  

I now know all those American and British troops died for nothing.  Our involvement there was a waste of blood and treasure. Our involvement in Syria and Libya has accomplished nothing.  

Remind me what the definition of insanity is.  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


They never defended their country but their drone

So how am i wrong

It happened over Israel

That is evident by the fact the Israeli jet and the drone came down over Israel

Can you explain why you keep avoding these facts?

The jets were not sent up to take out the drone though. The drone was dealt with earlier on, and then the Israelis sent jets into Syria to destroy the base where it came from. The Syrians defended their country from the jets which were in their airspace attacking them.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:I guess Rags is desperately serching Google

I researched the story, which is clearly something you didn't do.

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Have you seen peace break out in the Middle East?

I supported the Iraq invasion as I likened it to stopping Hitler before he got too strong.  

I now know all those American and British troops died for nothing.  Our involvement there was a waste of blood and treasure. Our involvement in Syria and Libya has accomplished nothing.  

Remind me what the definition of insanity is.  

Did peace break out after WW1?

No

Does that then mean, you stop preventing someone murdering millions?

Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands

When the people of Iraw were freed what happened?

People there had freedom for a few days and then Saudi and Iran used it as a playground in a proxy war

I am sorry, but any one that claims people died for nothing is an idiot

Ask yourself this

How many more would have died if we did not invade Iraq?

How long do you think the Arab spring would have come to Iraq?

There was already other Arab springs there. One after the first Iraq war, where the west sat back and did nothing.

200,000 died

How many more would be refugees and dead with Saddam in power with a similar Arab spring that we see in Syria?

How fucking dare you say those soldiers died for nothing.

When you are under living under oppression and then be free from this to only have then jihadists take that freedom from you. Say their lives meant nothing. Shows you are clueless on history

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The jets were not sent up to take out the drone though. The drone was dealt with earlier on, and then the Israelis sent jets into Syria to destroy the base where it came from. The Syrians defended their country from the jets which were in their airspace attacking them.

Really?

based on what evidence

I think you are getting your wires crossed on what happened here

Did the Jet come down over Israel?

yes or no?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I researched the story, which is clearly something you didn't do.

Is that why you are struggling?

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


Did peace break out after WW1?

No

Does that then mean, you stop preventing someone murdering millions?

Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands

When the people of Iraw were freed what happened?

People there had freedom for a few days and then Saudi and Iran used it as a playground in a proxy war

I am sorry, but any one that claims people died for nothing is an idiot

Ask yourself this

How many more would have died if we did not invade Iraq?

How long do you think the Arab spring would have come to Iraq?

There was already other Arab springs there. One after the first Iraq war, where the west sat back and did nothing.

200,000 died

How many more would be refugees and dead with Saddam in power with a similar Arab spring that we see in Syria?

How fucking dare you say those soldiers died for nothing.

When you are under living under oppression and then be free from this to only have then jihadists take that freedom from you. Say their lives meant nothing. Shows you are clueless on history

We have enough data to analyse in the middle East without bringing up other areas. Too much blood and treasure was wasted for nothing.

It obvious to anyone that looks at the situation honestly. We have accomplished nothing there.  Nor will we. They view as as imperialist crusaders, not their saviors.  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Is that why you are struggling?

The only thing I'm struggling with is getting you to read the facts rather than spout off when you clearly haven't read the reports.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The only thing I'm struggling with is getting you to read the facts rather than spout off when you clearly haven't read the reports.

What facts?

I am waiting for you to present them

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:
What facts?

I am waiting for you to present them

I've already told you the facts.

Now are you going to explain why the Syrians should not defend themselves against Israeli jets which are in Syria to attack them?

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

We have enough data to analyse in the middle East without bringing up other areas. Too much blood and treasure was wasted for nothing.

It obvious to anyone that looks at the situation honestly. We have accomplished nothing there.  Nor will we. They view as as imperialist crusaders, not their saviors.  

Wasted?

Really?

because you say so

Thye whole problem with the Middle East is Islamism

We had a war in Vietnam,

Show me the mass terrorism by the Vietmanese in France and the US during this war and after?

Where is this hate and terrorism?

I mean seriously, many people died

Yet we go to Saudi and help liberate Kuwate and this is what caused 9/11?

Third on the Al=Qaeda list is that we stopped the genocide of east Timor. That we interfered.

Now maybe you can sit by and watch people be butchered, but if you are telling me we should bow down to those who use violence, becuase we stand up to them. Then you are no better than Chamberlain.

When are you going to learn, people like this, do not reason. Might is the only answer

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I've already told you the facts.

Now are you going to explain why the Syrians should not defend themselves against Israeli jets which are in Syria to attack them?

The plain came down over israel

That is a fact

Are you going to tell me Israel should not have taken out Syrian chemical facilities that murder civilians?

They have done that

Do you think its wrong?

Anyway

So evidence please rags for your claim

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


Wasted?

Really?

because you say so

Thye whole problem with the Middle East is Islamism

We had a war in Vietnam,

Show me the mass terrorism by the Vietmanese in France and the US during this war and after?

Where is this hate and terrorism?

I mean seriously, many people died

Yet we go to Saudi and help liberate Kuwate and this is what caused 9/11?

Third on the Al=Qaeda list is that we stopped the genocide of east Timor. That we interfered.

Now maybe you can sit by and watch people be butchered, but if you are telling me we should bow down to those who use violence, becuase we stand up to them. Then you are no better than Chamberlain.

When are you going to learn, people like this, do not reason. Might is the only answer

Iraq has been a failure. No honest person can draw any other conclusion.  

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


Wasted?

Really?

because you say so

Thye whole problem with the Middle East is Islamism

We had a war in Vietnam,

Show me the mass terrorism by the Vietmanese in France and the US during this war and after?

Where is this hate and terrorism?

I mean seriously, many people died

Yet we go to Saudi and help liberate Kuwate and this is what caused 9/11?

Third on the Al=Qaeda list is that we stopped the genocide of east Timor. That we interfered.

Now maybe you can sit by and watch people be butchered, but if you are telling me we should bow down to those who use violence, becuase we stand up to them. Then you are no better than Chamberlain.

When are you going to learn, people like this, do not reason. Might is the only answer

Iraq has been a failure. No honest person can draw any other conclusion.  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


The plain came down over israel

That is a fact

Are you going to tell me Israel should not have taken out Syrian chemical facilities that murder civilians?

They have done that

Do you think its wrong?

Anyway

So evidence please rags for your claim

You're avoiding the issue. Are you denying that Israeli jets went into Syria to attack bases there?

The evidence is in the news reports - read them.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Iraq has been a failure. No honest person can draw any other conclusion.  

Of course it has been, but what I don't understand is why anyone thought it would be a success. Even the "evidence" of WMD was total bullshit and had no credibility to it.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're avoiding the issue. Are you denying that Israeli jets went into Syria to attack bases there?

The evidence is in the news reports - read them.

What has that got to do with the price of bread?

Where did this jet come down?

In your own time

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


What has that got to do with the price of bread?

Where did this jet come down?

In your own time

Israel, after it had been shot at by Syrian anti aircraft fire - because it was in Syria. Israel attacked Syria after the drone had been shot down.

This is your last chance to read what happened and understand it. If you persist in lying about what happened, you will be ignored, no matter how many tantrums you have.

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Iraq has been a failure. No honest person can draw any other conclusion.  

Is it currently a failure or always will be a failure?

The only reason its a failure is because Obama allowed Iran to control it

Lets take this in to perspective

When the allies freed France in WW2, there was sadly some murders and reprecussions of colloboration.

When we freed Iraq, two Islamic powers caused a civil war

Even though that happened. Are you seriously telling me, we should bow down to fear?

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:

Is it currently a failure or always will be a failure?

The only reason its a failure is because Obama allowed Iran to control it

Lets take this in to perspective

When the allies freed France in WW2, there was sadly some murders and reprecussions of colloboration.

When we freed Iraq, two Islamic powers caused a civil war

Even though that happened. Are you seriously telling me, we should bow down to fear?

It's been 16 years.  17 for Afghanistan. About 5 since we freed Libya.  About 5 since we started meddling in Syria.

It's been long enough to realize that these countries don't want to function like stable democracies. Leave them be and let them sort out their mess.  

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:

Is it currently a failure or always will be a failure?

The only reason its a failure is because Obama allowed Iran to control it

Lets take this in to perspective

When the allies freed France in WW2, there was sadly some murders and reprecussions of colloboration.

When we freed Iraq, two Islamic powers caused a civil war

Even though that happened. Are you seriously telling me, we should bow down to fear?

It's been 16 years.  17 for Afghanistan. About 5 since we freed Libya.  About 5 since we started meddling in Syria.

It's been long enough to realize that these countries don't want to function like stable democracies. Leave them be and let them sort out their mess.  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's been 16 years.  17 for Afghanistan. About 5 since we freed Libya.  About 5 since we started meddling in Syria.

It's been long enough to realize that these countries don't want to function like stable democracies. Leave them be and let them sort out their mess.  

Yes, I agree. Whenever one problem is sorted out they just create another one anyway. It's up to them to sort themselves out - if they actually want to.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maddog wrote:

It's been 16 years.  17 for Afghanistan. About 5 since we freed Libya.  About 5 since we started meddling in Syria.

It's been long enough to realize that these countries don't want to function like stable democracies. Leave them be and let them sort out their mess.  

Yes, I agree. Whenever one problem is sorted out they just create another one anyway. It's up to them to sort themselves out - if they actually want to.

Maddog wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I agree. Whenever one problem is sorted out they just create another one anyway. It's up to them to sort themselves out - if they actually want to.

There's too many moving parts and changing alliances.  We are aiding people in Syria who are fighting against Assad and ISIS, along side Al-Qaida and who are also fighting the Kurds.  Iran is supporting Assad while fighting against people allied with Saudi in Syria and Yemen.  I have no fucking idea which tribe is which in Libya but they are all fighting each other and can't be trusted further than I can throw them.  

To suggest that someone who is viewed as imperial crusaders can wade into that giant cluster fuck and make those folks get along is lunacy.  They change allegiances like i change my underwear.  

Israel is a pretty good example.  Once the Jews ran the Brits out in 47, they got down to business and formed the only democracy in the region.  

We should take cues from the Swiss.  They don't intervene outside of their borders.  Attack them and I feel confident they will unleash holy fucking hell on you.  

Maddog wrote:The other thing that is overlooked is the cost of all this crap.  The US paying most of the bills.  We are 20 trillion in debt in part to out war and rebuilding costs. The spineless Republicans are adding another trillion this year.  We can't afford to be in a state of perpetual war.  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maddog wrote:The other thing that is overlooked is the cost of all this crap.  The US paying most of the bills.  We are 20 trillion in debt in part to out war and rebuilding costs. The spineless Republicans are adding another trillion this year.  We can't afford to be in a state of perpetual war.  

Didn't Trump say he wasn't going to interfere in Syria?

Maddog wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I agree. Whenever one problem is sorted out they just create another one anyway. It's up to them to sort themselves out - if they actually want to.

There's too many moving parts and changing alliances.  We are aiding people in Syria who are fighting against Assad and ISIS, along side Al-Qaida and who are also fighting the Kurds.  Iran is supporting Assad while fighting against people allied with Saudi in Syria and Yemen.  I have no fucking idea which tribe is which in Libya but they are all fighting each other and can't be trusted further than I can throw them.  

To suggest that someone who is viewed as imperial crusaders can wade into that giant cluster fuck and make those folks get along is lunacy.  They change allegiances like i change my underwear.  

Israel is a pretty good example.  Once the Jews ran the Brits out in 47, they got down to business and formed the only democracy in the region.  

We should take cues from the Swiss.  They don't intervene outside of their borders.  Attack them and I feel confident they will unleash holy fucking hell on you.  

Maddog wrote:OK Didge. Name all the factions fighting in Syria right now.  

Then tell me how you plan on making them get along.  This should be good.  

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:OK Didge. Name all the factions fighting in Syria right now.  

Then tell me how you plan on making them get along.  This should be good.  

There are countless

I defend the Kurds fighting againt Assad and their allies.

The others are islamists or assad supporters

Does that help?

This should be good if you stop running away from my damming points



Are you going to answer them, or continue to run away

I have a degree in history

All I see is you running away

All I see is you surrendering

The cold war took decades to resolve

Your solution is to wave the white flag and be in reality a slave

Good luck with that buddy

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


There are countless

I defend the Kurds fighting againt Assad and their allies.

The others are islamists or assad supporters

Does that help?

This should be good if you stop running away from my damming points



Are you going to answer them, or continue to run away

I have a degree in history

All I see is you running away

All I see is you surrendering

The cold war took decades to resolve

Your solution is to wave the white flag and be in reality a slave

Good luck with that buddy

The cold war was won based on the west having the right ideas. It wasn't won because we bombed them into giving up communism. Someday the Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis and Iranians will decide that democracy is a better system. Until then, being bombed by democracies won't change their mind.  

Didge wrote:

Maddog wrote:

The cold war was won based on the west having the right ideas. It wasn't won because we bombed them into giving up communism. Someday the Syrians, Iraqis, Saudis and Iranians will decide that democracy is a better system. Until then, being bombed by democracies won't change their mind.  

What?

Have you even been to school?

Both were involved in many wars, through other countries.

You seriously have no idea about history

For example both the 1967 and 1972 wars with Israel with the Arabs, where orchestrated by Communist Russia. I really cringe at the dumbness at your answers here. Sorry mate. Nobody won here and many suffered, more so in the Eastern European block. Sadly in Poland we saw repeats of ethnic cleansing of Jews. So please do not give me some retarded points. Communism fell, because those living under this after having many revolutions, had people eventually and finally in power back them

The only thing won was democracy 

People being allowed to vote on their future

I would seriously stop now if i was you, because you seriously have no idea what you are talking about mate

Maddog wrote:

Didge wrote:


What?

Have you even been to school?

Both were involved in many wars, through other countries.

You seriously have no idea about history

For example both the 1967 and 1972 wars with Israel with the Arabs, where orchestrated by Communist Russia. I really cringe at the dumbness at your answers here. Sorry mate. Nobody won here and many suffered, more so in the Eastern European block. Sadly in Poland we saw repeats of ethnic cleansing of Jews. So please do not give me some retarded points. Communism fell, because those living under this after having many revolutions, had people eventually and finally in power back them

The only thing won was democracy 

People being allowed to vote on their future

I would seriously stop now if i was you, because you seriously have no idea what you are talking about mate

Yes, there were proxy wars all over the globe. The vast majority of those did  the people of those countries no help. Vietnam was a good example. The former colonial powers knew it was a waste of time and left ot to us, a few Aussies and S. Koreans.


Same thing is happening in Yemen between Saudi and Iran today. Only a fool would stick their nose in there.

However,  those proxy wars didn't cause the Berlin wall to come down.  

The problem with being the world's policemen beyond the fact that your boys come home in boxes and their children are saddled with debt, is that for every friend you make you make an enemy.  And half those friends are only tour friends because you are buying their friendship. They can become your enemynat the drop of a hat.