Fraud in Virgina

by veya_victaous Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:04 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/the-photo-of-a-counterprotester-beating-a-police-officer-fooling-the-internet/news-story/543b3ecb336b8a5afbd18535d4d1a7e6

IT HAS been the image shared online to prove Donald Trump was right when he insisted there was “blame on both sides” for the violence in Charlottesville.

The image showing a man wielding a club and wearing an “antifa” jacket while standing over a downed officer was widely shared after the deadly violence at a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, AP reports.

It was used to justify the US President’s comments after the violence in Virginia.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday afternoon inside Trump Tower, New York, the US President was clearly aggrieved at the strong criticism he received for not denouncing fast enough the white supremacists, Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan members who attended the weekend rally that turned deadly.

Mr Trump said the media had been unfair in blaming only the demonstrators on the Right — who were there to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E Lee.

Heather Heyer was killed after clashes on Saturday between white nationalists attending a “Unite the Right” gathering and counter-protesters. James Fields, a 20-year-old Ohio man, has been charged with her murder.

“What about the alt-left that came charging at the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?” Mr Trump asked.

“What about the fact that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs — do they have any problem? I think they do.

But there is just one problem with the image. It’s doctored.

AP reports that the image is actually a Getty Images photo taken during a 2009 protest of police in Athens, Greece.

An antifa logo was apparently digitally added to the demonstrator’s jacket.

Trump supporter Scott Presler received more than 1600 retweets after tweeting the image.

“Speaks Volumes: Republicans have denounced racists & democrats refuse to denounce Antifa,” he tweeted.

Antifa, who claim to be “anti-fascists”, are a loosely organised group of far-left anarchist extremists who focus on “perceived injustices” involving “racism, sexism and anti-Semitism”, according to the New Jersey Department of Homeland Security, which lists the group under domestic terrorist organisations.

Antifa has its roots in 1930s Germany’s Antifaschistische Aktion, a group formed to combat the Nazis, which was dissolved by Hitler in 1933 and revived during in 1980s with the rise of Neo-Nazism.

“Violent confrontations between Antifa members and white supremacists — as well as militia groups — will likely continue because of ideological differences and Antifa’s ability to organise on social media,” Homeland Security writes.

“In the past year, Antifa groups have become active across the United States, employing a variety of methods to disrupt demonstrations.”

Anti-fascists were among hundreds of demonstrators who descended on Charlottesville to oppose the rally. A demonstrator was killed when a driver intentionally drove into a crowd.

by Raggamuffin Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:46 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They weren't fighting Nazism in particular, they were fighting the Germans who they had declared war on after the invasion of Poland. Germany had also attacked the UK.

Are you suggesting that the D-day soldiers were in support of the Nazis? Or just neutral about Nazism?

I'm suggesting exactly what I said. They weren't fighting Nazism, they were fighting Germans. I don't think they cared much about their ideology at the time.

by Guest Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:47 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

They weren't fighting Nazism in particular, they were fighting the Germans who they had declared war on after the invasion of Poland. Germany had also attacked the UK.

Are you suggesting that the D-day soldiers were in support of the Nazis? Or just neutral about Nazism?

How on earth is she suggesting that?

You do realise that during the war many Americans saw the Japanese as the enemy more than the Germans.
The arguments made that sees all Germans as Nazis, because they fought, is both poor and an incompetent argument. Even more so when a few million foreign volunteers fought for them. Most joined up due a hate of communism and paid the price for doing so. Groups like the Cossack's for example, made the mistake of seeing the Nazis as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Of course there was some atrocities carried out against British troops by the Waffen SS in 1940, with two major incidents, but many were unaware of such war crimes.

Most ordinary British and American soldiers were unaware of the concentration camps, let alone the mass atrocities on the eastern front. Hence the view many wrongly claim that we went to war because of Nazism, is emphatically wrong. The British and French went to war on protecting the self determination of the Polish people. Of which the allies failed. As Roosevelt allowed Stalin to take control of Poland. The US had Germany declare war on them. It was more so in the last months of the war, that people came to see the true horror of the Nazi's. Of course the leaders and intelligence knew, but most people/soldiers in the west (except on the eastern front, as they experienced the attrocities first hand) had little idea of the mass murder going on.

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:01 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Thorin wrote:Really, show where I am defending Nazi's by showing violence happened on both sides?

Again what a childish emotive response

So I will ask again, is it okay to use violence against people if you do not like their beliefs?

Yes or no?

Many of the counter protesters were peaceful

Antifa is not peaceful and even admits it will use violence and often does.

That is not defending but often instigating.

Now again any violence by the nazi's is wrong and their ideology is wrong, but in a Democratic secular society, they have a right to protest. Whether we both dislike them or not.

Which goes back to my point.

Where was Antifa, when we have had Muslims near protesting/rioting around the world, calling for the killing of all those who insult Islam?

Where were they to take on these Neoconservative extremist Muslims?

Where were they when recently in the US a convicted terrorist who murdered Israeli's, teaching hate against Israel held rallies?

Where were they?

Where are they to counter protest Muslim hate preachers invited to speak at events?

Is many forms of hate acceptable to them?

Nazism may be a significant problem in the US, but it pails into comparison, of the global threat of Islamic extremism.

You see, Antifa is a contradiction in terms, as it claims to be also anti-sexism and anti-homophobia, but I do not see them stand against neoconservative Muslim groups that are sexist and homophobic. Only against Neoconservative Christian ones.

Now you tell me, did Martin Luther King help achieve Civil Rights through violent or non-violent protests?

Do you think it is Wrong to fight Nazis?

are you trying to blame those that would fight Nazis?

that is defending them dimwit.

you are a buffoon without a moral compass that holds ideals solely to argue on the internet without any backbone to support those ideals in real life.

Do you think it is wrong for a group of thugs to turn up mob handed and attack another group who were carrying out a completly legal rally that had been given court/authority permission to be held...!?

by Guest Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:

Do you think it is Wrong to fight Nazis?

are you trying to blame those that would fight Nazis?

that is defending them dimwit.

you are a buffoon without a moral compass that holds ideals solely to argue on the internet without any backbone to support those ideals in real life.

Do you think it is wrong for a group of thugs to turn up mob handed and attack another group who were carrying out a completly legal rally that had been given court/authority permission to be held...!?

Read for yourself.

veya_victaous wrote:

Let me make it clear

YES it is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE to use violence against Nazis.

they are not born Nazi (lets just skip the hypocritical nature in which you treat Muslims) they choose to be Nazis they unlike the original Nazi that if given the benefit of the doubt may not have envisioned the real world horrors that come from implementing such philosophies, the neo Nazi sees the concentration camps, see the millions killed, see the pain and suffering of unparalleled horror and says "Humanity needs to do that again, needs more of that".

Nothing but combating that by any and all means necessary is morally acceptable.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21693p150-war-in-virginia#415613

by Victorismyhero Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:16 pm

done.....

by Guest Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:22 pm

Lord Foul wrote:done.....

Oh my goodness. That was a complete an utter annihilation of him.

Awesome mate Fraud in Virgina - Page 2 4214183177

Not only is he one paranoid fuckwit, but that was a kick ass reply mate.

Eddie would be proud, as I am.

This major on the floor.... after your reply and all of us telling him so Fraud in Virgina - Page 2 2984306523

by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:37 pm

Thorin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Do you think it is wrong for a group of thugs to turn up mob handed and attack another group who were carrying out a completly legal rally that had been given court/authority permission to be held...!?

Read for yourself.

veya_victaous wrote:

Let me make it clear

YES it is TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE to use violence against Nazis.

they are not born Nazi (lets just skip the hypocritical nature in which you treat Muslims) they choose to be Nazis they unlike the original Nazi that if given the benefit of the doubt may not have envisioned the real world horrors that come from implementing such philosophies, the neo Nazi sees the concentration camps, see the millions killed, see the pain and suffering of unparalleled horror and says "Humanity needs to do that again, needs more of that".

Nothing but combating that by any and all means necessary is morally acceptable.

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t21693p150-war-in-virginia#415613

So... he's saying its ok, as long as the thugs claim that the people they attacked in the legally held/state sanctioned rally, were actually 'WW2 NAZIs'...!?

by Guest Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:54 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Thorin wrote:

Read for yourself.

So... he's saying its ok, as long as the thugs claim that the people they attacked in the legally held/state sanctioned rally, were actually 'WW2 NAZIs'...!?

Interesting point, but I never went off that myself, but how he made it acceptable to use violence against people because of their beliefs. He opened up a major can of worms. You should read on.
Though to be fair, many white supremacists support Hitler and thus have views in line with Hitler.
That does not excuse any violence and never will in a secular society
The only reason there is such a big following of Far right extremism today in the US, is two fold.

One, a substantial part of the South has never gotten over losing the Civil war. Kind of Like Hitler never getting over the defeat of WW1 and the Versailles treaty. Except, he rose to power, only because of the Wall Street Crash. In 1928, a year before the crash, he had only obtained 12 seats out of 491 in 1928. It shows this was the catalyst, that helped Hitler to rise to power. As he used this, to then blame the Jews and Communists for Germany's Depression. That is the part for people to learn from, how he capitalized on this disaster. How he then won over people through fear. Before this, his party was going nowhere.

That is the lesson to be learned here, on those who use an economic disaster, and fear in order to gain popularity.

The second part is very much the neoconservative Christian element. This has seen many believe that this has been ordained as their land, which is of course a crock of shit, as Europeans were colonizers. Though as seen, a combination of both, where they have never gotten over losing the civil war. Has kept Far Right extremism very much alive in the US. If a second such Civil war had of happened and had seen as much devastation in the South, as had happened to Nazi Germany at the end of WW2. You would not see this problem today. Today the Germans very much accept they were defeated and that the Nazi's were abhorrent.

Today, many Supremacist have no living history or people alive today to tell of the Civil war. It also did not help that that African Americans were not given civil rights at the end of the Civil war. That they only started to really obtain this in the the last 50 years, in living memory. If this had happened at the time, we would not be seeing the problems of today, as the South would be far more integrated. For years after the Civil War, little change or rights happened for African Americans, as they were still treated appallingly. Hence why there are many factors as to why there is a substantial support in the US South with white supremacy. The US Governments failed to tackle the hate and racism in the South for years.

It needs to be combated with unity and reason against such hate.

Hence why we should all stand united against any extremism

Laters

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