Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

by HoratioTarr Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:21 pm

A couple are raising Britain's first gender-fluid family, bringing up their four-year-old son as a 'person' and not a 'boy'.
Nikki and Louise Draven from Middlesborough do not believe in imposing a gender on Star Cloud, especially as neither of his parents gets 'hung up' on the gender they were born with.

Louise, was born a man but is transitioning to be a woman while Nikki was born a woman but identifies as both male and female and dresses as a man on some days and wears high heels, lipstick and padded bras on others.
Star views Louise as her mother, although she is her biological father, while Nikki – who Star calls Daddy – is his birth mother.

The Dravens, who married in a pagan ceremony in 2012, are believed to be Britain's first entirely gender fluid family.
'Neither of us gets hung up on the gender we were born as,' Louise, 30, said. 'We don't want our child constrained by that either. We're just an ordinary family being who we want to be.'

Star likes to wear make-up, paint his nails and plays with dolls and wears both girls' and boys' clothes.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4786350/Britain-s-gender-fluid-family.html

by HoratioTarr Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:23 pm

I hated dolls as a kid and loved playing with train sets and boys toys. I had absolutely no confusion over my sexuality as I got older. However, I'm not so sure kids need this kind of thing rammed home as much as they don't need gender stereotyping ramming home either.

by HoratioTarr Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:27 pm

I think, too, children like structure and stability and that knowing who they are in the scheme of things keeps them contented and happy. It's all very well while he's very young but when he hits puberty perhaps 'Star Cloud' might find the ragging he's going to get from his peers won't be worth the new age effort.

by eddie Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:30 pm

I think the only way we will know if this "works" - and I can't see why it won't if done absolutely properly - is when Star Cloud grows up and gives his/her own opinion.

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:00 pm

Oh dear...!

Poor kid!!!

by Syl Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:38 am

I think the confusion regarding their own sexuality is being thrust onto the child.

by Guest Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:45 am

eddie wrote:I think the only way we will know if this "works" - and I can't see why it won't if done absolutely properly - is when Star Cloud grows up and gives his/her own opinion.

I don't like this to be honest

I'm sure there was someone ages ago talking about this either on ADO or IAF. Some one was involved with people (new age hippie) doing this and have their child's gender *not known*. Social services got involved. It was said to be really damaging to young children as their gender is the only real identity that we're born with and to take that away leaves just an empty void

I don't know enough about psychology to guess at the effects of this either positive or negative but I just dont like it

by Original Quill Mon Aug 14, 2017 3:14 am

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:I think the only way we will know if this "works" - and I can't see why it won't if done absolutely properly - is when Star Cloud grows up and gives his/her own opinion.

I don't like this to be honest

I'm sure there was someone ages ago talking about this either on ADO or IAF. Some one was involved with people (new age hippie) doing this and have their child's gender *not known*. Social services got involved. It was said to be really damaging to young children as their gender is the only real identity that we're born with and to take that away leaves just an empty void

I don't know enough about psychology to guess at the effects of this either positive or negative but I just dont like it

I might agree. I need some follow-up information. But from the looks of it, a 'no-gender' child is going to get some indoctrination, but without a parental pattern at all.

What 'gender-less' looks like is anyone's guess. It's new ground, and how do we know we trust to parents on such an experiment?

by veya_victaous Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:35 am

I think it will be less of an issue in the future, so it is hard to say.
the more trans people become public/famous the less of a thing this will be.

personally I think the parents should just leave them to do what they want in regards to gender the issues may arise if they are forcing the kid to do girl things if he doesn't want to.
I know my grandma commented that "it doesn't matter what toys you give boys everything can be a sword"

by magica Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:21 am

Why is it wrong to be called a girl or boy. This child will be so mixed up.

I also loved games boys played, football, boxing, trains, etc. I was a right tom boy, I had no problems with my sexuality.

by veya_victaous Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:27 am

magica wrote:Why is it wrong to be called a girl or boy. This child will be so mixed up.

I also loved games boys played, football, boxing, trains, etc. I was a right tom boy, I had no problems with my sexuality.

it's not about being wrong, it is about being unnecessary
i think the point is more that we don't have to teach that "girls play with dolls and boys play with action figures"
kids should be able to pick up what ever toy they want.

statistically if he is born a boy then he will most likely like boy things and vice versa.
what i find interesting is how the opposite approach is used by feminism in regards to S.T.E.M career paths.
where this 'gendered preference' is not considered a suitable explanation for why there are less females in S.T.E.M based careers.

by Guest Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:55 am

gelico wrote:
eddie wrote:I think the only way we will know if this "works" - and I can't see why it won't if done absolutely properly - is when Star Cloud grows up and gives his/her own opinion.

I don't like this to be honest

I'm sure there was someone ages ago talking about this either on ADO or IAF. Some one was involved with people (new age hippie) doing this and have their child's gender *not known*. Social services got involved. It was said to be really damaging to young children as their gender is the only real identity that we're born with and to take that away leaves just an empty void

I don't know enough about psychology to guess at the effects of this either positive or negative but I just dont like it

You may find the following interesting.

The rest are about a bill introduced in Canada

by Syl Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:15 pm

eddie wrote:I think the only way we will know if this "works" - and I can't see why it won't if done absolutely properly - is when Star Cloud grows up and gives his/her own opinion.

Poor Star Cloud, that makes him nothing more than a human guinea pig.

by Original Quill Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:03 pm

I like that we are always improving our condition, advanced computers, tall buildings, bridges and such. But some things are best left to Nature for a reason: the climate, for one, and perhaps childhood development. We simply don't know enough, or aren't capable enough, to repeal and replace some natural-occurring phenomenon.

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Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy

Re: Britain's FIRST gender fluid family: Father who's transitioning to be a woman and mother who identifies as male and female are raising their son, not to get 'hung up' on being a boy