Plan for new synagogue in Australia blocked over terror fears

In move that Jewish community says rewards terror, court upholds Sydney council decision that house of prayer poses unacceptable security risk.

A local council in Sydney, Australia, has blocked plans for a new synagogue, saying it may become a terrorist target and poses an unacceptable security risk. The refusal of Waverley Council to approve the new Orthodox house of worship was upheld in court on Wednesday. The council said the proposed building raised “concerns as to the safety and security of future users of the Synagogue, nearby residents, motorists and pedestrians,” news.com.au reported.

The Land and Environment Court upheld the decision, basing its decision on the risk assessment submitted with the application along with proposed security measures. “It would seem that a more sophisticated risk assessment process could be required for matters such as a potential terrorist threat,” Commissioner Graham Brown said. The council told the court that “strong anti-Semitic undertones pervade much of ISIS’s online presence and literature” which has “manifested itself in both attacks and prevented attacks that have been aimed at Jewish communities in various parts of the world,” The Australian reported.

At the same time the council refused to allow architects to change the design of the planned building to increase security, saying that would make the building too ugly.

“It’s a very sad day for Australia if an established community, which needs a house of worship, is refused permission to build it because of fear that others may pose a threat,” New South Wales Jewish Board of Deputies chief executive Vic Alhadeff told news.com.au.

“This simply shows how we’re all losing our freedoms. Those who want us to be afraid are winning, and this ill-conceived judgment represents a dangerous precedent.”

The rabbi of the Chabad house that applied to build the synagogue, Yehoram Ulman, said the decision was “unprecedented” and that it “came as surprise and shock to the entire Jewish community.”

Ulman said that the court’s ruling to uphold the council’s decision threatened Jewish life in Australia.

“By pulling the terror threat argument they have shown that they are completely out of touch both with the reality and with needs of their constituency,” he said. “They have effectively placed in jeopardy the future of Jewish life in Australia.”


http://www.timesofisrael.com/council-blocks-australian-synagogue-plans-over-terror-fears/

of course...if it was a mosque...................

+1

Lord Foul wrote:
of course...if it was a mosque...................

Irrelevant and provincial-minded bullshit...

This isn't regional England..


Applications for Mosques, Synagogues and Christian churches are regularly being knocked back by local councils, for various reasons..

Wrong location;
Interference with traffic flow, access, neighbourhood;
And now, "security risks".


A mosque was knocked back by neighbouring Newcastle (NSW) council recently, and for good reason --  the local Muslim community wanted to build in a built up and already congested town (Elermore Vale..), on a busy narrow road, opposite a shopping centre and tavern, close to sporting fields and a school, adding over a thousand vehicles a day to an already busy road.

Only a small number of local residents objected on religious and terrorism grounds --   while at the same time many others have pointed to far more suitable sites only a couple of miles away..

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/114454/elermore-vale-mosque-plans-no-more/

Despite a couple of ignorant nongs from yhe other side of Newie screaming "racists !",  anybody who is actually familiar with this region knows why certain kinds of facilities (e.g. churches, petrol stations, fast food takeaways, pre-schools, brothels.. )simply aren't suitable in certain particular locations...

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:
of course...if it was a mosque...................

Irrelevant and provincial-minded bullshit...

This isn't regional England..


Applications for Mosques, Synagogues and Christian churches are regularly being knocked back by local councils, for various reasons..

Wrong location;
Interference with traffic flow, access, neighbourhood;
And now, "security risks".


A mosque was knocked back by neighbouring Newcastle (NSW) council recently, and for good reason --  the local Muslim community wanted to build in a built up and already congested town (Elermore Vale..), on a busy narrow road, opposite a shopping centre and tavern, close to sporting fields and a school, adding over a thousand vehicles a day to an already busy road.

Only a small number of local residents objected on religious and terrorism grounds --  many others have pointed to far more suitable sites only a couple of miles away..

So why not expel or Jews, being as the view here is that something Jewish poses a security risk, as they are a potential target?

I mean talk about bowing down to terrorism itself here.

That because many Islamic terrorist groups hate Jews. That now its unsafe to have a place of worship for Jews. That this might cause other Non Australian Jews being casualties.

Its as appalling a reason as it gets.

Its surrendering to extremists and terrorists.

The worst part about this, is that its treating Jews as not equal to all other Australian citizens.

There are already several synagogues, a handful of mosques, hundreds of Christian churches, several Buddhist temples, Hindu places, and dozens of fringe religions, down around the Sydney area, alone..

That story is a beat-up by one special interest group..

Might help if people visited the area involved first, before throwing out criticisms on purely religious or political grounds.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

There are already several synagogues, a handful of mosques, hundreds of Christian churches, several Buddhist temples, and dozens of fringe religions, down around the Sydney area, alone..

That story is a beat-up by one special interest group..

Might help if people visited the area involved first, before throwing criticisms on purely religious or political grounds.

What does it matter if I visited the area?

Are you saying the area is full of antisemitism? As that could be the only reason to pose such a view point based on denying this based on terrorism risk.

This is about a place of worship being denied based on being a potential terrorist target risk. When anywhere in Australia already is.

So you tell me wolf?

The court decided based on potential risk of terrorism to not look after its Jewish citizens, but cast them as inferior and not worth protecting. As its deemed to much of a risk.

Is that an admission of a problem of mass antisemitism in Australia?

Odd, as i keep being told Australia is welcoming and multi-cultured??

This is not about some residents moaning about noise or traffic etc. This is about claiming Jews and by extension anything Jewish poses a higher risk of attack, than all other Australians ethnic or religious groups.

A mosque was knocked back in a local town near here, 5 years ago..

Read the article I linked to up there, previously:
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/114454/elermore-vale-mosque-plans-no-more/

The local Muslim population would have been putting forward some of the same arguments then, as that Jewish community in Sydney are using now.

Back then a handful of p/c people were yelling "racists !", while the neo-nazis were claiming "they will eat yor babies !"..

And now we have the Sydney Zionist brigade claiming "anti-Semitism" ?   Let those Jews move into veya's former residence in Blacktown --  it's less crowded out there...

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

A mosque was knocked back in a local town nete here, 5 years ago..

Read the article I linked to there, previously:
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/114454/elermore-vale-mosque-plans-no-more/

The local Muslim population would have been putting forward some of the same arguments then, as the Jewish community in Sydney are using now.

Then a handful of p/c people were yelling "racists !", while the neo-nazis were claiming "they will eat yor babies !"..

And now we have the Sydney Zionist brigade claiming "anti-Semitism" ?   Let those Jews move into veya's former residence in Blacktown --  it's less crowded out there...

Was that Mosque pulled down due to posing a security risk of being a target of terrorism?#

Yes or no?

Even then the article makes no view on being a terrorist target does it wolf?

lol it did not take you long to claim the Zionist brigade. What utter bullshit to get out of pure unadulterated discrimination

So tell me what has Zionism got to do with the application of a new Jewish place of worship?

Are you now casting all Australian Jews as zionists?

So basically you back discrimination of zionists, a.k.a.  all Jews.

Even if they were Zionists, how would it make it right to deny them based off a terrorism risk?

You have evaded every single point.

By the by, the point to deny the Mosque in  the article was poor.

I have only objected to where in Australia they look to make an inclusive Islamic village based off extending an Islamic school. As it segregates.

Try again

That one particular Jewish association is claiming that having one synagogue knocked back in one Sydney council area will now change the life of all Jews in Australia...

How so  ???

When they already have several synagogues and schools around the Sydney region already, dozens around the state and country..

There is a synagogue near here, to suppory a few hundred Jews locally.


As for that Newcastle mosque being knocked back earlier, I drive over that road every week --  I know what it's like there..  (And : nothing has been removed from that site --  they were going to add a new building and car park onto a plot, next to residences and across the road from shops..).

There are several better sites available only 2, 3 or 4 miles away --  not a hundred or a thiusand miles --  and with much less impact..

Too many special interest groups are behaving with too much arrogance, bloody mindedness and an over-blown 'sense of entitlement' these days...

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

That one particular Jewish association is claiming that having one synagogue knocked back in one Sydney council area will now change the life of all Jews in Australia...

How so  ???

When they already have several synagogues and schools around
Sydney already, dozens around the state and country..

There is a synagogue near here, to suppory a few hundred Jews locally.


As for that Newcastle mosque being knocked back earlier, I drive over that road every week --  I know what it's like there..  (And : nothing has been removed from that site --  they were going to add a new building and car park onto a plot, next to residences and across the road from shops..).

There are several better sites available only 2, 3 or 4 miles away --  not a hundred or a thiusand miles --  and with much less impact..

Too many special interest groups are behaving with too much arrogance, bloody mindedness and an over-blown 'sense of entitlement' these days...

So based on your premise, and the populations of Muslims rise in Australia and there are already some there. Then you should deny any applications of any new Mosque, based on your reasoning because there are some there already?

Really?

So you want people spilling out on the streets then, when there is no more room there to accommodate more worshipers?

That is not even why this was denied.

Again, this was denied because it is claimed, that a Jewish place of worship poses a greater risk to being a target of terrorism. It was not denied because there other Jewish places of worship nearby.

Talk about the most piss poor regressive argument made. That just like Victor said, if this was a Mosque then you would be saying the opposite.

You show the worst double standards.

You still avoided my points.

try again

So tell me what has Zionism got to do with the application of a new Jewish place of worship?

Are you now casting all Australian Jews as zionists?

So basically you back discrimination of zionists, a.k.a.  all Jews.

Even if they were Zionists, how would it make it right to deny them based off a terrorism risk?

You have evaded every single point.

By the by, the point to deny the Mosque in  the article was poor.

I have only objected to where in Australia they look to make an inclusive Islamic village based off extending an Islamic school. As it segregates.

My premise/suggestion/ideas wouldn't stop future mosques or synagogues, Buddhist or Hindu temples, Christian churches, or KFCs or Maccas...

Just spread them out further throughout the suburbs and regions..

Having much less localised negative impacts, as shown in thise two examples.

Australia should be aiming to "decentralise" more and more resources out away from already congested and impacted major cities like Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane --  and more out into outer suburbs and regional areas.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

My premise/suggestion/ideas wouldn't stop future mosques or synagogues, Buddhist or Hindu temples, Christian churches, or KFCs or Maccas...

Just spread them out further throughout the suburbs and regions..

Having much less localised negative impacts, as shown in thise two examples.

Australia should be aiming to "decentralise" more and more resources out away from already congested and impacted major cities like Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane --  and more out into outer suburbs and regional areas.

Stop talking bullshit with misdirection. Your views are going away from what happened here Wolf.

This was stopped due to a fear it would increase the risk of terrorism.

The judgement made had nothing to do with congestion 

What did the judge rule here as to deny the place of worship?

I see you have run away from answering my points on your false accusations on Jews

Why build more?
we should be trying to turn them all into pubs, we don't need another one.


Besides the point the secular democratically elected local government authorities has said, No. they need to accept that and move on. No God is greater than the local council

veya_victaous wrote:Why build more?
we should be trying to turn them all into pubs, we don't need another one.


Besides the point the secular democratically elected local government authorities has said, No. they need to accept that and move on. No God is greater than the local council        

And as Victor said, if this had been a Mosque you would be spitting your dummy out..

Now if the same ruled applied to all religious places or any buildings built because they were a potential risk to terrorism, then I could understand. Though then the building industry in Australia would be become bankrupt, as nobody would have any homes built anymore.

Hence the double standard applied.

veya_victaous wrote:Why build more?
we should be trying to turn them all into pubs, we don't need another one.


Besides the point the secular democratically elected local government authorities has said, No. they need to accept that and move on. No God is greater than the local council        

Why build any more synagogues or mosques in around Sydney, is an equally valid question...

As the Jewish and Muslim sectors see their offspring moving out through the suburbs and regions, that's where they should be building..  NOT adding more where they're neither needed, or wanted by other local residents..

I wonder how the Dodger would feel, if local Muslim, Christian and Sikh splinter groups wanted to open new places of worship in undesirable or unsuitable locations in his neighbourhood, when there were better spots only a few miles away ?

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Why build more?
we should be trying to turn them all into pubs, we don't need another one.


Besides the point the secular democratically elected local government authorities has said, No. they need to accept that and move on. No God is greater than the local council        

Why build any more synagogues or mosques in around Sydney, is an equally valid question...

As the Jewish and Muslim sectors see their offspring moving out through the suburbs and regions, that's where they should be building..  NOT adding more where they're neither needed, or wanted by other local residents..

I wonder how the Dodger would feel, if local Muslim, Christian and Sikh splinter groups wanted to open new places of worship in undesirable or unsuitable locations in his neighbourhood, when there were better spots only a few miles away ?

I would have no problem at all Wolf to any place of worship being built in an area and never have. As why would I? In fact a bikers pub up the road from me which had closed down a few years ago. Has now been turned into a Mosque not long after the pub closed down and I had no objection to this. They even visited every house within the area to ask peoples views and had a lovely chat with the Iman.

I maybe atheist but have no issue with places of worship being built to accommodate worshipers.

Again the only objection I have had recently was where an Islamic school, was going to be turned into a village and basically would be inclusive. Going against what would be Multiculturalism in Australia.

So the same points to you, as again you both misdirect with babble about congestion, which this was not even the reason to deny this new Synagogue.. Hence why you are both acting desperately to back your prejudice here you both have against Jews, who you cast as Zionists. The real reason for your discrimination here.

And as Victor said, if this had been a Mosque you would be spitting your dummy out..

Now if the same ruled applied to all religious places or any buildings built because they were a potential risk to terrorism, then I could understand. Though then the building industry in Australia would be become bankrupt, as nobody would have any homes built anymore.

Hence the double standard applied.