Prohibit the purchase of Acid to those without a licence

Acid attacks have become rife in London and all over the United Kingdom. This year the number of attacks doubled. Too many families and individuals are suffering and falling victim to this grievous and criminal act.

On June 21st Resham Khan, pictured above, was driving in a car with her cousin. Out of nowhere they were attacked with acid. They’ll both have scars that will never leave them. Their lives have been changed forever.

An attack like this could happen to anyone.

It is about time that the law changes for the purchase of corrosive substances - right now you can buy it easily from any hardware store if you are 18 and over.

Corrosive acids like sulphuric acid are very lethal and life damaging substances. You should only be allowed to purchase corrosive substances with a licence to buy. The person purchasing should go through checks so their details are held on a database or hold a licence.

Imagine how many attacks would be stopped if there were controls that made it harder to buy, and meant we knew more about people buying it?

Acid attacks have become too common, the Home Office needs to do something to bring it under control. It is a disgusting criminal act. We need licensing laws now to deter this from happening.
Please sign this petition to convince the Home Office to take action.

This petition will be delivered to:

Member of Parliament
Amber Rudd MP
UK Parliament


https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-prohibit-the-purchase-of-acid-to-those-without-a-licence

Didn't I suggest this a few weeks ago? I'm glad they're tackling it.

How many people would have a legitimate use for various acids, even if only occasionally ???

Metalworkers, welders, blacksmiths
Mechanics and Mech. Engineers, Electricians, Battery installers/tech's
--  even the DIY bloke topping up a car battery ?
Wood/furniture finishers
Certain artists and craftsmen
Bricklayers, concretors, tilers
--  what about the homeowner wanting to clean up salt-stained brickwork ?  
Certain manufacturers/factory operators/workers
Industrial cleaners

How many people does she intend licensing, who would carry out those "background checks"  --  and who is supposed to pay for all of the licensing, regulation, training ?

Would every DIY mechanic, handyman, casual artist or part-time craftsperson who wants to buy a 500ml bottle of Hydrochloric or Sulphuric acid for home use,  then have to pay for a licence, training and a "background" check ?

The inflationary effects could be crippling, while the most definite outcome would most likely be the creation of yet another black market on the side..

I think it would be a great idea, but even Pound shops sell drain and sink cleaners with acid in them.

I don't think they will bother to look for a licence unless they are made to take them off their shelves.

typical knee jerk lefty response

oooo its being misused licence it

of course the only folks who benefit from licencing are those who issue the licence....££££££££££££££££

cash cow

thus putting it out of legitimate use by any individual or SME

thus (once again) attacking and destroying SME's

why do the left hate SME's??

especially the VERY SMALL one man band type business...

oh yes...of course.....if you are a sole business man you are "independant" (i,e not dependant) on the govt...and that will never do...absolute dependance on govt is the leftist desire.......

think I'd best buy 10 gallons now and squirrel it away, along with acetone etc that these cretins ALSO want to "licence" which should give me sufficient stock for what I will need over the next 10 years.....

why should I pay a licence fee of (estimating on what the cops consider the real price of firearms licences, which include background checks) up to 300 pounds for each and every licence why should I have to drive business away by having to raise my prices to accomodate this...

I signed it and it needs to have something done.

Call it a need jerk to the multiple victims of this attack this year.

See what they say

What problem will this cause you other than having to obtain a licence.

Surely you would not mind considering what is happening?

magica wrote:I think it would be a great idea, but even Pound shops sell drain and sink cleaners with acid in them.

I don't think they will bother to look for a licence unless they are made to take them off their shelves.

I'm not sure that the supermarket brand and of drain cleaners contain acid. It's mostly bleach.

eddie wrote:

magica wrote:I think it would be a great idea, but even Pound shops sell drain and sink cleaners with acid in them.

I don't think they will bother to look for a licence unless they are made to take them off their shelves.

I'm not sure that the supermarket brand and of drain cleaners contain acid. It's mostly bleach.

Drain cleaner is sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda aka lye. It's what I use to make soap. Yes, it burns on the skin.

I meant proper drain cleaner that burns through the shit is only available in proper shops like Travis Perkins and building merchants. I've never seen acid cleaners in supermarkets?

eddie wrote:I meant proper drain cleaner that burns through the shit is only available in proper shops like Travis Perkins and building merchants.  I've never seen acid cleaners in supermarkets?

Lye burns through grease and clears drains. It will also digest living tissue. You can dissolve a body in lye. But yeah, acid cleaners are used more for industry I think.

Thorin wrote:I signed it and it needs to have something done.

Call it a need jerk to the multiple victims of this attack this year.

See what they say

What problem will this cause you other than having to obtain a licence.

Surely you would not mind considering what is happening?

NOT MIND???????????????????????????

so this licence costs me (a one man band business) lets say £300

IT will cost a multimillion pound business the same

ANTI small business, regressive and wrong

why should I have to lose profit....(aka wages) to pay for the misdeeds of idiots?
Its the same with all these "certification" requirements...a CON...

a CASH COW

and aimed at destroying the small business man in favour of the big guys


OK thorin since you are so in favour of it....


lets have the same rules applied to vehicle licences

with background checks etc...

and your licence can then cost you £300 every couple of years or so.....

hows about that??

(since vehicle homicide is becomming as prevalent )

Lord Foul wrote:

Thorin wrote:I signed it and it needs to have something done.

Call it a need jerk to the multiple victims of this attack this year.

See what they say

What problem will this cause you other than having to obtain a licence.

Surely you would not mind considering what is happening?

NOT MIND???????????????????????????

so this licence costs me (a one man band business) lets say £300

IT will cost a multimillion pound business the same

ANTI small business, regressive and wrong

It's not regressive or wrong. As a soapmaker I had to pay a lot of money for my Cosmetic Safety Assessment. This is done to ensure that people don't shove any old product in their soaps/cosmetics and do people harm. This involves having to log every single item you purchase to make your product along with batch numbers and manufacturer's names. This way it's all traceable. We're using potentially dangerous chemicals and allergens.

there is a difference between making a product which contains potentially dangerous substances, and making a product that although not containing a substance, requires it in its manufacture...

also ...YOUR market is already "tuned" to these costs, this proposal will be an extra additional cost imposed on people who are already fighting the "big business" type model...

ie the individual brickie and his mate
the one/two man garage
the one man wood worker

and so on.....

adding costs to them, disproportionate to the costs to big business...

and...more to the point

this only adds amunition (pun not intended) to my point that a driving licence should be as hard (and costly) (and difficult), with the same restrictions, as a firearms licence, since as I said...vehicular homicide is at the same level as these acid attacks ....

actually...there is a simple way forward

lets have a "dangerous item licence...that covers you for every dangerous item

you would pay only one fee...

it could cover
guns
cars
chemicals
knives (even kitchen ones)
tools
etc etc

if you can harm someone with it...you have to have this licence

if you ever lose it for misuse/criminal behaviour....tough

oh ...and to get each "part" of such a licence....

you would need to show both competancy AND need

Lord Foul wrote:there is a difference between making a product which contains potentially dangerous substances, and making a product that although not containing a substance, requires it in its manufacture...

also ...YOUR market is already "tuned" to these costs, this proposal will be an extra additional cost imposed on people who are already fighting the "big business" type model...

ie the individual brickie and his mate
the one/two  man garage
the one man wood worker

and so on.....

adding costs to them, disproportionate to the costs to big business...

Soap and cosmetic making has the same type of limitations.   The substances are not actually present in the soap at the end product after saponification, just at the beginning.    Despite the product being harmless, at the start point it's not.   And small businesses making soap etc, do indeed have to fight the huge cosmetic corporations which continually impose restrictions via the EU Cosmetic Regulations.    Don't forget, they are just individuals too, trying to make a living.

Lord Foul wrote:typical knee jerk lefty response

oooo its being misused   licence it

of course the only folks who benefit from licencing are those who issue the licence....££££££££££££££££

cash cow

thus putting it out of legitimate use by any individual or SME

thus (once again) attacking and destroying SME's

why do the left hate SME's??

especially the VERY SMALL one man band type business...

oh yes...of course.....if you are a sole business man you are "independant" (i,e not dependant) on the govt...and that will never do...absolute dependance on govt is the leftist desire.......

think I'd best buy 10 gallons now and squirrel it away, along with acetone etc that these cretins ALSO want to "licence"   which should give me sufficient stock for what I will need over the next 10 years.....

why should I pay a licence fee of (estimating on what the cops consider the real price of firearms licences, which include background checks) up to 300 pounds for each and every licence why should I have to drive business away by having to raise my prices to accomodate this...

"The left" don't hate SMEs, Victor --  that's purely a figment of your imagination...

You seem to be confusing the over-controlling/over-protective/over-pc sector of the British left-wing with "lefties" of the world in general..

Unfortunately for the claptrap that the likes of you, Thorin and Deano keep spouting on here, there is no singular group of "the left"  --  in the same way that there is no single unified mass of "right whingers".


In both Oz and the USA,  it is the right wing/"conservative" politicians who are pro-big business --  and often work against the small and medium-sized business owners  --  while the more left-leaning/liberal groups are the ones more friendly towards smaller and family-owned enterprises !  "Go figure.."

(Furthermore : it was the RW/"conservative" parties when in guvm'nt who introduced tougher gun and knife laws over here..).

**************************************

As for the topic itself ==

My sentiments above mirror yours, Victor..

The subject itself is non-political --  what is making it political, is the brazen opportunism of those putting that petition up in the first place...

Well, you should realise that I can only deal as I see,and what I see is the "euro lefty".
I don't care about lefty's elsewhere since they don't have the influence here.
And again ...OF COURSE lefty's everywhere hate SMEs they hate anything that they perceive as giving some a leg up,even,or especially if it's "self motivated".
If they have to to be a wage slave then so should everyone else.
Leftism is driven by the politics of envy, just as rightism is driven by the politics of greed

Lord Foul wrote:Well, you should realise that I can only deal as I see,and what I see is the "euro lefty".
I don't care about lefty's elsewhere since they don't have the influence here.
And again ...OF COURSE lefty's everywhere hate SMEs they hate anything that they perceive as giving some a leg up,even,or especially if it's "self motivated".
If they have to to be a wage slave then so should everyone else.
Leftism is driven by the politics of envy, just as rightism is driven by the politics of greed

Your definition of "leftism" starts from the centre-left, and the "right-wing" from the centre-right, Victor --  and would label people like me, veya and Quill as "centrists" by your narrow definitions, rather than left-wingers...

Outside of those defintions based on insular British Isles and Western Europe ideas, there are such creatures as small business owners with a social conscience (i.e. "left" leaning) and those authoritarian "corporatist" right wingers who prefer a money-centric style of "corporate welfare" and yet are opposed to individual rights, and who would prefers that workers, pensioners and small business-owners were all disenfranchised and placed into slavery..

That would be center left like scrat?

Vega ain't a lefty......He would turn everyone into robots ruled by "deep thought"

Lord Foul wrote:
That would be center left like scrat?

If you use the "political compass" model of political groupings --  rather than a (over)simplified straight/linear model as favoured by the likes of the alt.right/neo-nazis/Tommy Monk  --  you will have four quadrants..

With both "authoritarian" and "libertarian" minded groupings for both the left-wing ('socialist') and right-wing ('capitalist') economic factions.

Where you could then place the pro-regulatory and pro-individual rights from both sides into their respective areas, rather than bundling contrary-thinkers into some mob that they don't belong to  --  and individuals like Scrat, Phil, Smelly and non-Indy-Thoughts can be placed out on the fringes out of harms way..

Lord Foul wrote:and...more to the point

this only adds amunition (pun not intended) to my point that a driving licence should be as hard (and costly) (and difficult), with the same restrictions, as a firearms licence, since as I said...vehicular homicide is at the same level as these acid attacks ....

I have no problem with driving licences being made harder.
That though does not mean we should not have licences for this as well though does it?

Well if you want to be fair and this licence costs an individual say £300, then it should cost a larger business £300 per 10 employees up to 500 then £300 per employee over that.
Let's have costs equitably distributed

Lord Foul wrote:Well if you want to be fair and this licence costs an individual say £300, then it should cost a larger business £300 per 10 employees up to 500 then £300 per employee over that.
Let's have costs equitably distributed

No problem

Thorin wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:and...more to the point

this only adds amunition (pun not intended) to my point that a driving licence should be as hard (and costly) (and difficult), with the same restrictions, as a firearms licence, since as I said...vehicular homicide is at the same level as these acid attacks ....

I have no problem with driving licences being made harder.
That though does not mean we should not have licences for this as well though does it?

Correct. Any kind of licenses are a form of regulation.  The far Right has made 'regulation' a political target.  They view them as unnecessary and expensive.  That's where this discussion is coming from.  SME's are often hit harder by regulation than the big enterprises, which can absorb more.

But I like George Lakoff's reasoning: just turn the term 'regulations' into 'public protections' and see how many more accept them.  When you realize you are dealing with human life and health, it's harder (and even arrogant) to argue expense.  You've got to be some sort of elitist to think your pocketbook is more important than someone's flesh and organs.

of course it will ALSO mean that instead of pouring the contents of a bottle down your blocked sink ..costing about 3-4 pounds

you will have to purchase the services of a licenced person (i.e a plumber) at £60 an hour or part therof plus travel.

and of course...society becomes that little bit dumber, and individuals incapable of helping themselves with the smallest of problems........

all becasue a few tits insist on misusing something...


what next? ban sewing needles? ..
ban kitchen knives
ceramic pottery etc (cos it makes sharp bits when brocken)

so you can all eat even more waxed cardboard containers of soup out of paper cups?

and into the leftist dream we go.....ever so quietly guided there under the mask of "caring public protections" which is the nask of the satanic dictator ship

"its for your own good"

pffffft

little grey men in little grey boxes living little grey lives according to little grey regulations

with all individualism and independance regulated out of existance

How about...instead of regualting every speck of freedom out of existance we simply HANG the malfeasants.....

I used to be wary of the DP...but the more shit like this I hear the less opposed I become

Well the death penalty has never worked as a deterrent.

We had centuries of this and where they used to execute people for things as simple as stealing a loaf of bread.

well in that case...how about people understand that living is dangerous...in fact living can kill you, that there are bad people about, and sometimes bad things can happen

i mean we HAVE to "accept" THAT particular argument over islamist attacks, since it seems no one is interested in imposing solutions which will utterly prevent such things.....

oh and thorin...agreed BUT...you dont get repeat offenders.....

but hey ...you volunteer for a kind of regulatory euthanasia if you like.......but the concept behind it is monstrous

Lord Foul wrote:well in that case...how about people understand that living is dangerous...in fact living can kill you, that there are bad people about, and sometimes bad things can happen

i mean we HAVE to "accept" THAT particular argument over islamist attacks, since it seems no one is interested in imposing solutions which will utterly prevent such things.....

oh and thorin...agreed BUT...you dont get repeat offenders.....

but hey ...you volunteer for a kind of  regulatory euthanasia if you like.......but the concept behind it is monstrous

Point taken about terrorist attacks.

I agree with LF...

If someone is mad enough and cruel enough to throw acid on another human being,  they would have no trouble getting their hands on it - be it thru beg, steal or borrow.

Yeah sorry but Lord Foul is absolutely right here. People must know that pretty much anything could be used as a weapon. You can't restrict the sale of something which has a practical use just because some sadistic fucks might use it for ill intent.

The problem now imo is a few high profile attacks leading to copy cat uses.

And this is incomparable to guns. Guns are designed to kill, and should be restricted. Acid is not designed to cause harm. If people use it to harm hit them with a huge prison sentence (upto life), but don't punish innocent people over this.

What next, restricting the sale of knives?

Les wrote:And this is incomparable to guns. Guns are designed to kill, and should be restricted. Acid is not designed to cause harm. If people use it to harm hit them with a huge prison sentence (upto life), but don't punish innocent people over this.

Guns are used for hunting, to legitimately get food.  Lye is used to clean drains.  Same-same.  The argument that guns are verboten but lye is innocent is belied by the fact that lye is used quite regularly to cause permanent injury or death.

It's all in the mind of the user.  Same for knives.  That's why, for all of them, I am in favor of 'public protections'.  There's always the degree of protection; I don't forbid them, just keep track of them.

I just bought some lye for drains recently.  It was easy.

Malaria kills millions every year...

Pollution kills millions every year..

High fat/high sugar diets kill millions every year..

Cigarette smoking kills hundreds of thousands every year..

Gun deaths kill hundreds of thousands every year --  but very few of them are in Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand..

Influenza can kill between hundreds of thousands and millions every year..

Cars/trucks/buses kill hundreds of thousands a year --  but most of them are in China, India and parts of Africa..   In most Western countries, motor vehicle deaths sre counted in thousands..

Illicit drug use will kill tens of thousands, while alcohol abuse will affect hundreds of thousands..

Terrorism will kill a few thousand..

Acid attacks will maim a few hundred (many of them in parts of India and Africa..) and kill a handful.

Why is it it, that so much of the regulation, controls and research being undertaken in first world/developed countries is so often in 'inverse proportion' to the actual scale of the effects on our societies  ???            

Lord Foul wrote:Vega ain't a lefty......He would turn everyone into robots ruled by "deep thought"

true
Literal robots

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Malaria kills millions every year...

Pollution kills millions every year..

High fat/high sugar diets kill millions every year..

Cigarette smoking kills hundreds of thousands every year..

Gun deaths kill hundreds of thousands every year --  but very few of them are in Britain, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand..

Influenza can kill between hundreds of thousands and millions every year..

Cars/trucks/buses kill hundreds of thousands a year --  but most of them are in China, India and parts of Africa..   In most Western countries, motor vehicle deaths sre counted in thousands..

Illicit drug use will kill tens of thousands, while alcohol abuse will affect hundreds of thousands..

Terrorism will kill a few thousand..

Acid attacks will maim a few hundred (many of them in parts of India and Africa..) and kill a handful.

Why is it it, that so much of the regulation, controls and research being undertaken in first world/developed countries is so often in 'inverse proportion' to the actual scale of the effects on our societies  ???            

Money is a big part of it, to be sure. I also think it's in proportion to incidents and news stories. And agencies that keep track of safety breaches, such as the Occupational Safety and Hazard Administration (OSHA). Right now the airline industry is getting a lot of bad press due to incidents...watch, there will be FAA or other public safety measures that are promulgated as a result.

It is true that public safety is hap-hazard.

veya_victaous wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:
Vega ain't a lefty......He would turn everyone into robots ruled by "deep thought"

true
Literal robots

I reckon if veya really wanted to be a true "collectivist" he would have joined a Borg-style commune up around Nimbin or The Channon,  rather than buying himself an acreage way down south...